Surah An-Noor ( 24) -Ayah 35

Guest · #1

Surah An-Noor ( 24) -Ayah 35TransliterationAl la_hu nu_rus sama_wa_ti wal ard masalu nu_rihi kamiska_tin fiha_ misba_h almisba_hu fi zuja_jah az zuja_jatu ka an naha_ kaukabun dur riy yuy yu_qadu min sajaratim muha_rakatin zaitu_natil la_ sarqiy yatiw wa la_ garbiy yatiy yaka_du zaituha_ yudi u wa lau lam tamsasuna_r ru_run ala_ nu_r yahdil la_hu linu_rihi may yasa_ wa yadibul la_hul amsa_la lin na_s wal la_hu bikul li sai in alimInterpretad Translation:Pickthall Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The similitude of His light is as a niche wherein is a lamp. The lamp is in a glass. The glass is as it were a shining star. (This lamp is) kindled from a blessed tree, an olive neither of the East nor of the West, whose oil would almost glow forth (of itself) though no fire touched it. Light upon light, Allah guideth unto His light whom He will. And Allah speaketh to mankind in allegories, for Allah is knower of all things.Yusuf Ali:-Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: lit from a blessed Tree an Olive neither of the East nor of the West whose Oil is well-nigh luminous though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light. Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things. 2996 2997 2998 2999 3000 3001 3002 3003Yusuf Ali Notes and Comments2996 Embedded within certain directions concerning a refined domestic and social life, comes this glorious parable of light, which contains layer upon layer of transcendent truth about spiritual mysteries. No notes can do adequate justice to its full meaning. Volumes have been written on this subject. In these notes I propose to explain the simplest meaning of this passage. (24.35)2997 The physical light is but a reflection of the true Light in the world of Reality, and that true Light is Allah. We can only think of Allah in terms of our phenomenal experience, and in the phenomenal world, light is the purest thing we know, but physical light has drawbacks incidental to its physical nature: e.g. (1) it is dependent upon some source external to itself; (2) it is a passing phenomenon; if we take it to be a form of motion or energy it is unstable, like all physical phenomena; (3) it is dependent on space and time; its speed is 186,000 miles per second, and there are stars whose light takes thousands of years before it reaches the earth. The perfect Light of Allah is free from any such defects. (24.35)2998 The first three points in the Parable center round the symbols of the Niche, the Lamp, and the Glass. (1) The Niche (Mishkat) is the little shallow recess in the wall of an Eastern house, fairly high from the ground, in which a light (before the days of electricity) was usually placed. Its height enabled it to diffuse the light in the room and minimized the shadows. The background of the wall and the sides of the niche helped to throw the light well into the room, and if the wall was white-washed, it also acted as a reflector: the opening in front made the way for the light. So with the spiritual Light; it is placed high, above worldly things; it has a niche or habitation of its own, in Revelation and other Signs of Allah; its access to men is by a special Way, open to all, yet closed to those who refuse its rays. (2) The Lamp is the core of the spiritual Truth, which is the real illumination; the Niche is nothing without it; the Niche is actually made for it. (3) The Glass is the transparent medium through which the Light passes. On the one hand, it protects the light from moths and other forms of low life and from gusts of wind, and on the other, it transmits the light through a medium which is made up of and akin to the grosser substances of the earth (such as sand, soda, potash, etc.), so arranged as to admit the subtle to the gross by its transparency. So the spiritual Truth has to be filtered through human language or human intelligence to make it intelligible to mankind. (24.35)2999 The glass by itself does not shine. But when the light comes into it, it shines like a brilliant star. So men of God, who preach Allah's Truth, are themselves illuminated by Allah's light and become the illuminating media through which that Light spreads and permeates human life. (24.35)3000 The olive tree is not a very impressive tree in its outward appearance. Its leaves have a dull greenish-brown color, and in size it is inconspicuous. But its oil is used in sacred ceremonies and forms a wholesome ingredient of food. The fruit has a specially fine flavor. Cf. n. 2880 to xxiii. 20. For the illuminating quality of its oil, see n. 3002 below. (24.35) 3001 This Olive is not localized. It is neither of the East nor of the West. It is universal, for such is Allah's Light. As applied to the olive, there is also a more literal meaning, which can be allegorized in a different way. An olive tree with an eastern aspect gets only the rays of the morning sun; one with a western aspect, only the rays of the western sun. In the northern hemisphere the south aspect will give the sun's rays a great part of the day, while a north aspect will shut them out altogether, and vice versa in the southern hemisphere. But a tree in the open plain or on a hill will get perpetual sunshine by day; it will be more mature, and the fruit and oil will be of superior quality. So Allah's light is not localized or immature: it is perfect and universal. (24.35)3002 Pure olive oil is beautiful in color, consistency, and illuminating power. The world has tried all kinds of illuminants, and for economic reasons or convenience, one replaces another. But for coolness, comfort to the eyes, and steadiness, vegetable oils are superior to electricity, mineral oils, and animal oils. And among vegetable oils, olive oil takes a high place and deserves its sacred associations. Its purity is almost like light itself: you may suppose it to be almost light before it is lit. So with spiritual Truth: it illuminates the mind and understanding imperceptibly, almost before the human mind and heart have been consciously touched by it. (24.35)3003 Glorious, illimitable Light, which cannot be described or measured. And there are grades and grades of it, passing transcendently into regions of spiritual height, which man's imagination can scarcely conceive of. The topmost pinnacle is the true prototypal Light, the real Light, of which all others were reflections, the Light of Allah. (24.35) --------------------I have posted 24:35 with Interpretaded Translations and explaination notes by Allama Yusuf Ali.As explained by brother elsewhere Sunni vew is nothing but what it says in Ayah. Everybody is free to draw any meaning from this ayah.Tere are other Scholars who have tried to explain this Ayah and I have Muhammad Asads translation and comments. Since it is not on electronic media it will take time to type.I am not a Scholar. Out of million steps of knowledge im on step one. Therefore I depend upon sholars.Wasalaam

Guest · #2

Again, I am NOT looking for your ability to copy & paste. I am looking for your understanding of this particular sura and other suras that were asked means to a sunni-wahabi. Pls do not copy & paste translation which I am not interested. I am interested in the overall relation-ships of those suras with your practise of Islam - explained in your own words. Pls REFER again to the post, appended below, which apparently you are responding to and also to the two other separate topics and your non-response dealing with the meanings of the suras in the sunni-wahabi context. I shall provide the topics & links of the three topics at the bottom: ______ Here's the CHALLENGE that I keep posting for you. What do I have to do next? Asif says to: TRY Offering $500 payable to Charity. Does this offer have any significance to you?HERE's The CHALLENGE, yet one more time: ======================================== I asked you to explain what the aya 24:35, 4:59, 5:67 and 4:174-175, for example, means to a sunni-wahabi, not direct me to a english translation?There are hundreds of Ginans with its equally esoteric lyrics which are prone to manipulation, and you have chosen to manipulate one or two. The Ginans are devotional hymns that praise Allah & His Imams - the bearer of His Light/Nur and as such EXPLAINS Sura 4:59, 5:67, 4:174-175 and 24:35, for example, in the Shia Ismaili context. Why don't you tell us what those Surah means to a sunni-wahabi? If they mean the sahih hadeeths then do let us know. Are you ashamed? If you can't or won't explain, then disappear or get lost like your other nicks of alphabxx, tarasara & agakhani willing to convert, for example, did?THE MONOREAL ALLAH ================== 'Ali 'BY ITSELF' is not Allah because that would conflict with Sura 24:35 and Ismaili belief in the MONOREAL Allah or the 'One-ness or Unity' of Allah.LIGHT of ALLAH (imam) is NOT be a PARTNER of Allah beacuse it is of the same LIGHT or Nur of Allah? Refer to "Light upon Light..[24:35]", for example.Light/Noor of Allah doesn't BEGET new Light like a human begets a new human offspring. The light is all around us, it is in us but only the Chosen (Imam) is guideth by Allah. Refer to 'Allah is the Light of the Heavens & earth..[24:35} and ' we have sent you a Light that is Manifest..[4:174]', for example.Now, with the SAHIH Hadiths it is entirely a different matter. They are physical fabrications, an abominations and made the equivalent/Partner of Allah's Quran. And, what a partner! The most adulterated & blasphemous SET OF WRITINGS ever - the core of Sunni-wahabiism. GRAND DELUSION: ============= You are DELUDING if you think you are going to PROMOTE your adulterated & blasphemous sahih hadeeth-based sunni-wahabi stuff here, there or anywhere? A'int gonna happen! Finally, I would strongly ENCOURAGE the readers on this list to read some of the beautiful syncretic sufic-bhakti lyrics of the Ginans. http://www.iis.ac.uk/research/academic_ ... nopsis.htm _______ Topic: Ismaili religious hymns or Ginans http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/ubb/Forum ... mlTopic: Ayaths 4:59 & 5:67 (Debate excerpts: Sunni vs Ismaili) http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/ubb/Forum ... mlTopic: Sura 4 v 174/175 (Debate Excerpt - Sunni vs Ismaili) http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/ubb/Forum ... 60.html

Guest · #3

I have to acknowldege, you are better at cut & paste than we originally thought. The only thing you are pretty stupid at is reading what is copied and pasted. This is what is written by Br Muslim First which you should read"""I have posted 24:35 with Interpretaded Translations and explaination notes by Allama Yusuf Ali.As explained by brother elsewhere Sunni vew is nothing but what it says in Ayah. Everybody is free to draw any meaning from this ayah.Tere are other Scholars who have tried to explain this Ayah and I have Muhammad Asads translation and comments. Since it is not on electronic media it will take time to type.I am not a Scholar. Out of million steps of knowledge im on step one. Therefore I depend upon sholars."""Of course I do not expect you to understand it!!Surah An-Noor ( 24) -Ayah 35 TransliterationAl la_hu nu_rus sama_wa_ti wal ard masalu nu_rihi kamiska_tin fiha_ misba_h almisba_hu fi zuja_jah az zuja_jatu ka an naha_ kaukabun dur riy yuy yu_qadu min sajaratim muha_rakatin zaitu_natil la_ sarqiy yatiw wa la_ garbiy yatiy yaka_du zaituha_ yudi u wa lau lam tamsasuna_r ru_run ala_ nu_r yahdil la_hu linu_rihi may yasa_ wa yadibul la_hul amsa_la lin na_s wal la_hu bikul li sai in alimInterpretad Translation:Pickthall Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The similitude of His light is as a niche wherein is a lamp. The lamp is in a glass. The glass is as it were a shining star. (This lamp is) kindled from a blessed tree, an olive neither of the East nor of the West, whose oil would almost glow forth (of itself) though no fire touched it. Light upon light, Allah guideth unto His light whom He will. And Allah speaketh to mankind in allegories, for Allah is knower of all things.Yusuf Ali:-Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: lit from a blessed Tree an Olive neither of the East nor of the West whose Oil is well-nigh luminous though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light. Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things. 2996 2997 2998 2999 3000 3001 3002 3003Yusuf Ali Notes and Comments2996 Embedded within certain directions concerning a refined domestic and social life, comes this glorious parable of light, which contains layer upon layer of transcendent truth about spiritual mysteries. No notes can do adequate justice to its full meaning. Volumes have been written on this subject. In these notes I propose to explain the simplest meaning of this passage. (24.35)2997 The physical light is but a reflection of the true Light in the world of Reality, and that true Light is Allah. We can only think of Allah in terms of our phenomenal experience, and in the phenomenal world, light is the purest thing we know, but physical light has drawbacks incidental to its physical nature: e.g. (1) it is dependent upon some source external to itself; (2) it is a passing phenomenon; if we take it to be a form of motion or energy it is unstable, like all physical phenomena; (3) it is dependent on space and time; its speed is 186,000 miles per second, and there are stars whose light takes thousands of years before it reaches the earth. The perfect Light of Allah is free from any such defects. (24.35)2998 The first three points in the Parable center round the symbols of the Niche, the Lamp, and the Glass. (1) The Niche (Mishkat) is the little shallow recess in the wall of an Eastern house, fairly high from the ground, in which a light (before the days of electricity) was usually placed. Its height enabled it to diffuse the light in the room and minimized the shadows. The background of the wall and the sides of the niche helped to throw the light well into the room, and if the wall was white-washed, it also acted as a reflector: the opening in front made the way for the light. So with the spiritual Light; it is placed high, above worldly things; it has a niche or habitation of its own, in Revelation and other Signs of Allah; its access to men is by a special Way, open to all, yet closed to those who refuse its rays. (2) The Lamp is the core of the spiritual Truth, which is the real illumination; the Niche is nothing without it; the Niche is actually made for it. (3) The Glass is the transparent medium through which the Light passes. On the one hand, it protects the light from moths and other forms of low life and from gusts of wind, and on the other, it transmits the light through a medium which is made up of and akin to the grosser substances of the earth (such as sand, soda, potash, etc.), so arranged as to admit the subtle to the gross by its transparency. So the spiritual Truth has to be filtered through human language or human intelligence to make it intelligible to mankind. (24.35)2999 The glass by itself does not shine. But when the light comes into it, it shines like a brilliant star. So men of God, who preach Allah's Truth, are themselves illuminated by Allah's light and become the illuminating media through which that Light spreads and permeates human life. (24.35)3000 The olive tree is not a very impressive tree in its outward appearance. Its leaves have a dull greenish-brown color, and in size it is inconspicuous. But its oil is used in sacred ceremonies and forms a wholesome ingredient of food. The fruit has a specially fine flavor. Cf. n. 2880 to xxiii. 20. For the illuminating quality of its oil, see n. 3002 below. (24.35) 3001 This Olive is not localized. It is neither of the East nor of the West. It is universal, for such is Allah's Light. As applied to the olive, there is also a more literal meaning, which can be allegorized in a different way. An olive tree with an eastern aspect gets only the rays of the morning sun; one with a western aspect, only the rays of the western sun. In the northern hemisphere the south aspect will give the sun's rays a great part of the day, while a north aspect will shut them out altogether, and vice versa in the southern hemisphere. But a tree in the open plain or on a hill will get perpetual sunshine by day; it will be more mature, and the fruit and oil will be of superior quality. So Allah's light is not localized or immature: it is perfect and universal. (24.35)3002 Pure olive oil is beautiful in color, consistency, and illuminating power. The world has tried all kinds of illuminants, and for economic reasons or convenience, one replaces another. But for coolness, comfort to the eyes, and steadiness, vegetable oils are superior to electricity, mineral oils, and animal oils. And among vegetable oils, olive oil takes a high place and deserves its sacred associations. Its purity is almost like light itself: you may suppose it to be almost light before it is lit. So with spiritual Truth: it illuminates the mind and understanding imperceptibly, almost before the human mind and heart have been consciously touched by it. (24.35)3003 Glorious, illimitable Light, which cannot be described or measured. And there are grades and grades of it, passing transcendently into regions of spiritual height, which man's imagination can scarcely conceive of. The topmost pinnacle is the true prototypal Light, the real Light, of which all others were reflections, the Light of Allah. (24.35) --------------------I have posted 24:35 with Interpretaded Translations and explaination notes by Allama Yusuf Ali.As explained by brother elsewhere Sunni vew is nothing but what it says in Ayah. Everybody is free to draw any meaning from this ayah.Tere are other Scholars who have tried to explain this Ayah and I have Muhammad Asads translation and comments. Since it is not on electronic media it will take time to type.I am not a Scholar. Out of million steps of knowledge im on step one. Therefore I depend upon sholars.Wasalaam

Guest · #4

Br.anajmi I could have not said better then what you said.Jazak Allah Br.anajmi -------------------Hafeez Let me say one more time that " I am not a Scholar. Out of million steps of Sholarship, I am Still struggling on step one. Therefore, I depend upon other recognized sholars."If you take trouble to read Allama Yusuf Ali's (May Allah Bless his Soul) explaination notes you will get good Idea about what this Ayah means.We sunnis have only one 'pointer', and that is Allah SWT. We do not sit and spend time connecting Ayah's of Quran to prove a point that 'to reach Allah we have to go thru secondary channels like "Hazir-Imaam who is not perfect" or Imaam who is hiding and talks to Dai in Dai's dream or Imaam who is 'GAEEB' and would be more then 1000 year old today.Our Imaam is Quraan-al-majeed and Sunnah of our Prophet Muhammad SAW.Now if desire to read slightly different interpretation of this Ayah then please let me know. I will go thru typing Muhammad Asad's interpreted translation and notes. Or you can pick-up a copy for yoursef and read it.You want to prove something which only your creed could believe. So be it.Now go to your Jamaatkhana recite your Dua in front of your Godhead's picture, sing some DEVINE Ginaans and be happay.Peace.

Guest · #5

M.F. aka akberally says: ---Our Imaam is Quraan-al-majeed and Sunnah of our Prophet Muhammad SAW---Good! Then explain those Surahs which are from the quran in accordance with your sunnah or the sahih hadeeths.---Let me say one more time that " I am not a Scholar.---When it suits you - you are a scholar; when cornered - you wimper and claim to be not a scholar.I suggest you get lost and take your other 'nicks' with you. Try your sunni-wahabi dawah in the some prison or some sewers where the rats are lonely.

Guest · #6

HafeezWhat are you? Brain dead!Yusuf Ali Explains this Ayah vedr Well. There is no connection between this ayah and Sunnah of prophet.What do you do not understand. Ayah says Allah is NOOR. What else do you needPeace

Guest · #7

HafeezThis is how Marhum Allama Yusuf Ali Summerizes the Ayah: "Glorious, illimitable Light, which cannot be described or measured. And there are grades and grades of it, passing transcendently into regions of spiritual height, which man's imagination can scarcely conceive of. The topmost pinnacle is the true prototypal Light, the real Light, of which all others were reflections, the Light of Allah."Peace

Guest · #8

---Yusuf Ali Explains this Ayah vedr Well. There is no connection between this ayah and Sunnah of prophet-----In which case why do you need your books of Sahih? Are there no hadeeths that explain Nur-e- Muhammadi or Nur-e-Illahi? Pls provide those hadeeths in context to this aya or 24:35 and STOP quoting translator's opinion. Pls EXPLAIN how Sura Ikhlas relates with Sura Nur 24:35?Sura an-Nur 24:35 is not the only one that you have been asked to explain. Pls explain sura 4:59, 5:67 and 4:174-175 for example? If those ayaths mean the sunnah i.e. the sahih hadeeths then pls CONFIRM.

Guest · #9

This is how Surah Ikhlas relates to Sura Nur 24:35Surah Ikhlas is surah number 112 and Suran Nur is Surah number 24. There are 88 Surah between these two. 24:35 is the 35th verse of surah 24 which is surah nur. Surah ikhlas has 4 verses and it is compulsory to recite this surah at least during your daily prayers. Both the surahs are from Allah (swt). Surah Nur was revealed to the prophet in Madina and Surah Ikhlas was revealed to the prophet in Mecca. Both of them are the absolute truth and one who tried to change their meanings to suit his own interest shall be fuel for the fire of hell.

Guest · #10

This is what 4:59 states."O you who believe! Obey Allâh and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allâh and His Messenger (SAW), if you believe in Allâh and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination."Who are the people in authority? People in authority would be those who have studied the quran their entire lives, who have studied the life of the prophet and who try to live their lives according to what the prophet taught. These people pray five times a day, fast regularly, pay zakah, go fo hajj if they can afford it and in most cases have memorized the entire quran. These people can answer questions based upon the life of the prophet (pbuh) and his teachings. One of the important criteria is that these people live their lives according to what they preach. There are thousands of people who have that kind of authority. They consider the quran to be the be all and end all of their lives.They do not have racing horses, do not drink or dance. These are the people in authority.If anybody thinks that Aga Khan is the only person in authority then I am afraid that he/she is doomed. The only credential that Aga Khan has to claim to be the person in authority is his lineage and even that is not beyond doubt. Is he an expert in the quran and the lifestyle of the prophet?? Well, if he is, then I am a DUCK and I will go QUACK, QUACK, QUACK.

Guest · #11

5:67""O Messenger (Muhammad SAW)! Proclaim (the Message) which has been sent down to you from your Lord. And if you do not, then you have not conveyed His Message. Allâh will protect you from mankind. Verily, Allâh guides not the people who disbelieve.""This message is the quran. And I don't know if the Sahih mentions this, but this is common sense which is quite uncommon amongst the Ismailis. If Aga Khan is this message, then I am a DUCK and I will go QUACK, QUACK, QUACK.

Guest · #12

4:174""O mankind! Verily, there has come to you a convincing proof (Prophet Muhammad SAW) from your Lord, and We sent down to you a manifest light.""This light has been manifested in the form of a book called the quran. If it had been manifested in the form of a man than Allah (swt) would've had to create a new manifestation every 50 - 60 years. And what a manifestation would that be!! A manifestation that feels hungry and needs to eat, feels shitty and needs to shit, feels pissy and needs to piss, feels horny and needs to do Muta, needs to take a bath after having sex and on and on.If Aga Khan is this manifest Light, then I am a DUCK and I will go QUACK, QUACK, QUACK.

Guest · #13

4:175""So, as for those who believed in Allâh and held fast to Him, He will admit them to His Mercy and Grace (i.e. Paradise), and guide them to Himself by a Straight Path.""This ayah is pretty self explanatory, but some Aga Khani idiots do not understand and try to fit Aga Khan in there. If they can do that successfully then I am a DUCK and I will go QUACK, QUACK, QUACK.

Guest · #14

Dear Anjami,I am sick and tired of your idiotic comments that go on to show your deep ignorance about Islam, Ismailism, or anything else for that matter. You simply are too stubborn and too arrogant to learn any ne knowledge.The Quran is not the manifestation of God's Light, and Muhammad was not the only proof of God. In fact, Muslims are commanded to hold to the Quran, AND the manifest proofs of GOD.2:185 – “Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qurán, as a guide to mankind, also manifest proofs for guidance and the (Furqan) Criterion (between right and wrong).”4:174 – “O mankind! Verily there hath come to you a convincing proof from your Lord: For We have sent unto you a LIGHT (that is) MANIFEST.”This Light as Allah's Proof was none other than Hazrat Ali, the Imam of mankind. You are blind not to see it. hte below verse 2:207 was reavealed referring to Hazrat Ali -Shia and Sunni commentators are unanimous in agreeing to this.2:207 – “And of mankind is he who would sell himself, seeking the pleasure of Allah; and Allah hath compassion on (His) bondmen.”2:208 – “O ye who believe! Come, all of you, into submission; and follow not the footsteps of the devil. Lo! he is an open enemy for you.”2:209 – “And if ye slide back after the clear proofs have come unto you, then know that Allah is Mighty, Wise.”You have obviously rejected the manifest proofs of Allah, so you are blind, and your testimoney is clear evidence of your spiritual blindness.Pls spare us your anti-islamic, anti-ismaili babble. So i guess you are a duck, and you have been quacking as you have been posting nothing but crap all over this topic.

Guest · #15

Nizari,I am actually feeling proud of myself making you sick and tired. That is my aim. Make all Nizaris sick and tired.And if Ali is the Manifest Light, then at least he was not racing horses.

Guest · #16

And when you said anjami - were you referring to me - anajmi or is it some other nick the nicked nizaris before.

Guest · #17

2:185 – “Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qurán, as a guide to mankind, also manifest proofs for guidance and the (Furqan) Criterion (between right and wrong).”Smart Ismaili translation - "Ali is the manifest proof and now Aga Khan is the manifest proof" 4:174 – “O mankind! Verily there hath come to you a convincing proof from your Lord: For We have sent unto you a LIGHT (that is) MANIFEST.”Smart Ismaili Translation - "Ali is the manifest Light and now Aga Khan is the Manifest Light" 2:207 – “And of mankind is he who would sell himself, seeking the pleasure of Allah; and Allah hath compassion on (His) bondmen.”Smart Ismaili translation "Ali is the manifest Light and now Aga Khan is the manifest Light" 2:208 – “O ye who believe! Come, all of you, into submission; and follow not the footsteps of the devil. Lo! he is an open enemy for you.”Smart Ismaili translation - "Ali is the manifest Light and now Aga Khan is the manifest Light" 2:209 – “And if ye slide back after the clear proofs have come unto you, then know that Allah is Mighty, Wise.”Smart Ismaili translation - "Ali is the manifest light and now Aga Khan is the ismaili translation" Go through the above and tell me who is demonstrating the highest degree of stupidity.

Guest · #18

In my zeal I made a mistake in the second last line of my postSmart Ismaili translation - "Ali is the manifest light and now Aga Khan is the ismaili translation"It should say Smart Ismaili translation - "Ali is the manifest light and now Aga Khan is the manifest Light"

Guest · #19

After I read Nizaris post above, I started studying 2:185What nizari has quoted is not the complete ayah. but I will reprint what nizari printed.""2:185 – “Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qurán, as a guide to mankind, also manifest proofs for guidance and the (Furqan) Criterion (between right and wrong).” ""Ramadhan is the month on which the stress is in this ayah and a few ayahs before and after this ayah. Allah is trying to tell us that the month of ramadhan is so important that the quran was revealed in this month and al the manifest proofs. Now what manifest proofs were revealed during the month of ramadhan? Was Ali revealed during the month of ramadhan. Was he born during the month of ramadhan? Did he accept Islam in the month of ramadhan? What is this manifest proof that was revealed in the month of ramadhan? Did the prophet declare Hazrat Ali his successor during the month of ramadhan?None of the above!!So simple to understand for those with common sense. But Ismailis are a different breed altogether. Put two and two together and get seven, that is what the Ismailis and Nizaris are good at.

Guest · #20

Let us now analyze 2:207""2:207 – “And of mankind is he who would sell himself, seeking the pleasure of Allah; and Allah hath compassion on (His) bondmen.” ""Mind you this is a translation printed by Nizari.The last word in this ayah is "bondmen", a plural. So Allah has compassion on more than one of his bondmen.Now I do not know who the first part of the ayah refers to but it refers to one who is willing to sell himself for the sake of Allah. I am sure that Hazrat Ali would've been ready to sell himself for the sake of Allah but was there an instance when this was required of Hazrat Ali? I do not know. If someone does please enlighten me. I will accept the truth without questioning it.

Guest · #21

Dear Anjami,The verse ""2:207 – “And of mankind is he who would sell himself, seeking the pleasure of Allah; and Allah hath compassion on (His) bondmen.” ""If you remember, on the night of Hijra, Imam Ali volunteered to sleep in the Prophet's bed as the Meccans were plotting to kill him that night. Ali was ready to sacrifice himself for Islam.Look at the verse again.""2:207 – “And of mankind is he who would sell himself, seeking the pleasure of Allah; and Allah hath compassion on (His) bondmen.” ""Notice how it says "of mankind". This means in all of mankind there is that ONE PERSON who would sell himself for Allah. And that ONE PERSON is the IMAM.Now look at the verses right after:2:208 – “O ye who believe! Come, all of you, into submission; and follow not the footsteps of the devil. Lo! he is an open enemy for you.”Allah talks about the devil being a manifest enemy. If the devil is the manifest enemy - the embodiment of evil, then the IMAM is the manifest good.2:209 – “And if ye slide back after the clear proofs have come unto you, then know that Allah is Mighty, Wise.”Allah then mentiones clear proofs and how we must accept them. This is reavealed in context with Imam Ali - the one of mankind that "seeks the pleasure of Allah."As for the bondmen, you are right. All the prophets of Allah were his bondmen. However the prophethood has come to an end. Leaving only the Imamat - eternal spiritual guidance for mankind.The Imam is the physical prescence of Allah's Light. And the Light is passed from Imam to Imam, thus LIGHT UPON LIGHT.

Guest · #22

Nizari,I think there is a small difference between selling oneself for Allah and willing to die by lying in the prophets bed for the sake of Allah. But that is just my opinion and I could be wrong.I cannot understand how Hazrat Ali was selling himself by doing what he did. But my understanding is limited and I ask Allah for guidance.If the devil is the manifest enemy then who is he. Just like the manifest Imam has a face, the manifest enemy needs to have a face. (And by saying the devil is the manifest enemy you couldn't be further from the truth but I will play along)Everything else you say about been in the context of Hazrat Ali is pretty senseless, but you are entitled to your opinion. Just don't expect other's to follow in your footsteps!!

Guest · #23

It is a fact that the verse we were discussing about was revealed in context to Hazrat Ali. Sunni and Shia agree on it. Remember that Ali was ready to sacrifice himself for Islam, for Allah, so the religion of truth would not be destroyed. If that isnt selling oneself to Allah, i dont know what is.If you want the truth you must look at the Quran from both a zahir and batin point of view. Seek the physical Light of Allah and you will be guided.

Guest · #24

Was Hazrat Ali the only one who was ready to sell himself for Allah? What about Hazrat Bilal? What about Hazrat Hamza? and countless others.And please let us just stick to zahir, cause there is not a shred of evidence proving your case from zahir, if we go into the batin then Aga Khan can claim to be the manifestation of Allah and I won't be able to prove jack shit against him and I can claim to be the reflection of the manifest light and you won't be able to prove jack shit against me.

Guest · #25

You cant prove anything whethe it is zahir or batin. And there is batin in the Quran for sure:11:1 – “A. L. R. (This is) a Book, with verses basic or allegorical, further explained in detail,- from One Who is Wise and Well-acquainted (with all things):” It clearly says that there are allegorical (esoteric) verses in the Quran.

Guest · #26

I never said that there were no allegorical verses in the quran. All I said was that Ismailis will have to use the allegorical verses to prove their point. Remember quran also says that people will misuse the allegorical. Ismailis cannot prove their point without the allegorical. I prefer not to use them at all.So what are the chances of me misusing the allegorical - none. What are the chances of you misusing the allegorical? Since your entire argument is based upon allegorical verses the chances that you are misusing them are 100%

Guest · #27

I interpret the allegorical under the guidance of the IMAM - the one person who CAN interpret the allegorical without error. You do not even try to interpret the allegorical therefore you can NEVER grasp the truth of the Quran, so you will remain blind and in darkness.6:103 – “Vision comprehendeth Him not, but He comprehendeth (all) vision. He is the Subtile, the Aware.”6:104 – “Manifest Proofs have come unto you from your Lord, so whoso seeth, it is for his own good, and whoso is blind is blind to his own hurt. And I am not a keeper over you."Imam is the manifest proof of Allah. You are blind without recognition of the Imam.

Guest · #28

Well, give me an example of an allegorical verse that you have interpreted under the guidance of the Imam.And I guarantee that none of these allegorical verses will say anything other than that your Imam is the manifest proof. There will be no ayah which explains religion or heaven or hell or the working of the Almighty or about the prophet and anything else concerned with religion.There are letters in the beginning of some surahs which say Alif, laam, mim and some other arabic alphabets believed to be allegorical. Can your Imam interpret these for us?

Guest · #29

The bottom line is that you ignore allegorical verses altogethor. Therefore you are ignoring parts of the Quran. The verse of Light which is enjoined upon ALL Muslims is allegorical. However, you will ignore it becuase you either do not want to admit that it can refer to the Imam or you simply cannot see its significance in that light.Remember that each person is free to interpret the Quran the way they choose - this includes you also. So look at the allegorical verses and study them, develop a personal interpretation of them rather than discarding them. It is ok if your interpretation is not fully correct, we are humans, we make mistakes. Only Allah and the Imam know the hidden meanings. But this does not mean we shouldnt try to find these meanings for ourselves, because we can get somewhat close to these meanings.Consider thisIn the verse of Light, the word "light" is mentioned exactly FIVE times. Can you think of the significance of the number 5? I can. - the AHL-UL BAYT - the FIVE RAYS OF LIGHT ALI, MUHAMMAD, HUSAYN, HASSAN, and FATIMA.This is one of my interpretations of this verse. This is a personal interpretation, it may be wrong, it may be right. We wont know.

Guest · #30

This is exactly the problem with allegorical verses. Everyone can have their own interpretations.Allah (swt) in his infinite wisdom chose not to explain them.The prophet (pbuh) chose not to explain them.Hazrat Ali chose not to explain them.I choose not to even try to explain them. All I say is that I believe that they are from the Lord Almighty and that they are true. People who try to explain them, not for the betterment of Islam but to prove themselves to be one or the other are all liars. People who say they understand the batin meaning of the quran are liars.Remember not even your Imam will be able to explain the biggest mystery of the quran which are the characters Alif, laam, mim.And if I don't know whether an interpretation will be right or wrong, I try to not interpret it at all. At least I will be able to stay away from the wrong.

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Surah An-Noor ( 24) -Ayah 35

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