The 48th to the 49th Imam..descendency???

[Guest]

To all the Agha Khannis on this board, I have a question regarding the current HI descendency to the Nizari Imamate.<p>The 48th Nizari Imam was Sultan Muhammad Shah..had two sons, Aly Salomone Khan and Sadrudin Khan.<p>But the 49th Nizari Imam Karim Agha Khan is the son of Aly Salomone, or Sultan Muhammad's grandson.<p>Did I miss something...how can the Imamate pass from the Imam to his grandson..and bypass he two living sons?

[Guest]

Brother Qiyam,<p>That is because the current Imam claimed to be the current Imam!!! No one else has claimed to be the current Imam.

[Guest]

Anyone who knows about the life of Aly Khan, will have the answer:<p><br>Topic: Status Of Ali ibn Abi Talib <p>Nizari posted 01-31-2002 03:08 PM ET (US) <br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>The Nizari interpretation is more consistent.<br>Imam Abraham<br>Imam Ismail<br>.<br>.<br>.<br>Imam Hashim<br>Imam Abu Muttalib<br>Imam Abu Talib<br>Imam Ali<br>Imam Husayn<br>.<br>.<br>.<br>Sha Karim Al-Husayni Hazar Imam<p>As you can see, the Nizari line continues to the present day. The Bohra, Zaidi, Ithna Ashari, and Sabani lines have all become extinct.<br> <p>Muslim posted 01-31-2002 03:42 PM ET (US) <br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<p>Nizari,<br>Talking about consistency, what was in those dots?<p>Aga Khan III (Imam)<br>Aly Khan son of Aga Khan III (<B>NOT</B> Imam)<br>Aga Khan IV son of Aly Khan (Imam)<p> <p>Nizari posted 01-31-2002 03:49 PM ET (US) <br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>What is inconsistent about that.<br>Imamat still continues in a straight lineage.<br>eg - who was Imam before Abraham?<br>not his father - because he was a true Pagan.<br>it was his great great great great great great great grandfather Shem, son of Noah.<br> <p>Nizari posted 01-31-2002 04:00 PM ET (US) <br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Who was Imam before Abraham?<br>answer that. <p><br>Muslim posted 01-31-2002 05:00 PM ET (US) <br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br> <br>Ibrahim's father was Tarakh, who was NOT an idolater. Azar, mentioned in the Quran as an idolater is NOT Ibrahim's biological father.<p>Muslim posted 01-31-2002 05:14 PM ET (US) <br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<p>Nizari,<br>49 Imams from Ali, all father to son, except ONE - Aga Khan III to Karim. That's inconsistent. What did Aly Khan do to be denied the Imamate?<p>

[Guest]

Muslim,<br>how long did it take you to assemble all that? <p>And, exactly - for what?<p>Imamate is passed from father to son and is per nas or designation.<p>The grandson is the descendent and has the seed of his father & grandfather and those before him. Or, for that matter - we all! Care to do a dna analysis?<p>Imam chose to bypass the father for the son (same seed or progeny)as per his nass.<p>

[Guest]

Silly argument.<p>An Imam can nominate whoever he wants to succeed him as long as the nominee is from the seed of Fatima.<p>Aga Khan is not Imam and he cannot nominate anyone, not even a descendant of Fatima. He has no such right.

[Guest]

The Aga Khan is the current Imam of the age.<br>He is Imam per nass from the previous Imam.<p>Once again, Qiyam and others alwaws try to put limits on the Imam's authority - per kitabs and other old books. Remeber, the Imam is the one vested with all authority, no one can limit this in any way.<p>If the Imam chooses to nominate his grandson, that is his perogative.<p>BOHRAS DON'T EVEN HAVE AN IMAM!!!<br>YOU HAVE NO SUCH RIGHT TO CRITISIZE OUR IMAMAT IF YOU CANNOT EVEN CLAIM YOUR OWN!<br>

[Guest]

Aly Khan was not made an imam because he was a playboy and a womanizer. Making him an Nizarism a bigger joke than it is. Nizaris claim to be true Ismaili Muslims but they do not uphold anything in the Quran or Fatimid books or history. Yet they have no problem quoting from the Bible or Hindu scriptures to justify their views. They claim imam is proven by nass, but nass itself is a historical thing which one reads in books - they very books they publish many of and then reject.<p>Aga Khan's claim to being an imam has no proof, it is plain bullshit. In fact there is very little Islamic about him.

[Guest]

Here's my favourite quote:<p>And, what would you like me to do with your comments - muslim, porus?<p>"They are drifting in the sea like fools which they are and yet - have the ego to preach."<p>Have you said anything that has not been said before?<p>Say - muslim<br>what is that from the quran that you wish nizaris to follow?<p>And, MUSLIM,<br>What aspects of the fatimi traditions would you like the nizaris to follow:<br>i)misaq<br>ii)Saffai chitti<br>iii)baraat<br>iv) etc<p>GET REAL!<br>

[Guest]

Let us compare what Nizaris and Bohras follow:<p>Nizaris - Talim and Tawil of the Quran based on the teaching of the Imam of the Time. <p>Bohras - Fatimid books authored by men, so -called hadith of the Prophet - also authored by men, a the words of a fallible, incompetent Dai, the corrupt Bohra Kothar.<br>Not to mention the shitty practices that opress the Bohras - misaq, Saffai chitti, baraat.<p>The perverted version of Islam practiced by the Kothar is a disgraise to humanity.

[Guest]

br nizari,<p>Let's not forget the hadeeths from the Sunni scolars's BOOK of Authentic Hadeeths that they plus the 12'ers have absorbed into their practise. (hehehehehehee)<br>

[Guest]

Let us also remember the gambling Imam (hohohohohohoho)

[Guest]

Our Imam doesnt gamble.<p>You keep saying he does, yet you have produced NO proof whatsoever.

[Guest]

If I give you proof will you accept that the living Imam is a fraud?

[Guest]

anajmi<p>If we transported you back to the 7th century in person where, by the way, you would "fit in RIGHT AWAY" with your libhas(bohra dress) & beard and MORE importantly with your "7th century MENTALITY".<p>And, you would be spreading the same kind of fitna against the prophet calling him:<br>a gambler<br>a womanizer<p>and everything under the sun borrowed from his enemies, etc. NAUJABILLAH!<p>This is the mark of a JAHEEL FOLLOWER OF DAJJAL which is what you are, and that is why I call you all - freak-shows!

[Guest]

I ask a simple question for which the correct answer is either yes or no and look at the reply I get, but no answer.<p>Well, people can easily determine the jahils on this board who cannot answer a simple question asked by a ten year old. If you believe that the living Imam is not a gambler then you can very well say that if he is proved to be one then you will accept that he is a fraud. The fact that you refuse to answer this question (and all the others) is proof enough of the fact that all Ismailis and living imam is nothing but a fraud. <p>According to the christians, whom the Ismailis love by the way, the greatest trick the devil pulled was convincing people he did not exist. The greatest trick of the 21st century has been performed by the living Imam convincing his followers that he is the living imam.<p>And I follow no one except Allah and his rasool, you follow someone else and he could very well be DAJJAL.<p>Another thing I would like to mention is that the Living Imam is also a manifestation of hypocrisy.

[Guest]

So Anajmi<br>Let's send you bacm to the 7th century WITHOUT having tonsend anything PHYSICALLY or MENTALLY about you.<p>Now, you are in the 7th century:<br>You are cursing & swearing against the prophet (may peace be upon him & his progeny -the nizari imammate)and saying all those "shitty" things about him.<br>

[Guest]

So Anajmi?<p>Where's the proof? I dont see it anywhere?<br>Why? Because there is none. you and your dumb allegations against our Imam.<p>I guess thats all one can expect from a ten year old.

[Guest]

Have you guys seen beavis and butthead - if they were ever to make a real movie with those two, I'd say the two of you would get the parts.<p>Hafeez,<p>You are the only one on this board who is still living in the 7th century that is why you cannot seem to think about anything else.<p>Nizari,<p>I said if I give you proof will you accept that the HI or LI is a fraud? Did you answer?<br>By the way imagine this, a question from a ten year old has you guys dumbfounded, and we haven't even gotten to the true grown-up Muslims.

[Guest]

To all on this board - Who do you think is worst, one who gambles or one who owns a casino?

[Guest]

anajmi<p>I am sure you can prove that the prophet is a fraud, a gambler, a womanizer and all those "s" things; that is why I call you a dumb schmuch with intelligence of a ten year old.<p>

[Guest]

Still no answer!!

[Guest]

Beavis and Butthead do Ismailis - New movie starring Hafeez and Nizari

[Guest]

Hey hafeez,<p>what kind of a man curses a ten year old. The worst kind!

[Guest]

Owning a Casino does not mean one gambles.<br>That is called doing business, and there is nothing un-islamic about doing business.<p>The Prophet himself was a businessman. Is he a fraud too?<br>

[Guest]

I guess in that case owning a brothel would also be business.

[Guest]

I don't know jinx. Why not ask the sahabas - they each had a brothel in their home as per the time?

[Guest]

<br>Believing Muslims are expected to engage in Halaal Business.<p>Owning a casino is not Halaal since Income is derived from gambling.<p>Owning a Hotel with dining facility serving alchohole is not Halaal.<p>Owning a stock in any non Halaal business is not Halaal.<p>This is the reason Nizaris want to run away from sunnah. So they can own and race a horse, Can permit their daughters to merry non muslim, can own convience store and sell lottery and Alchohole. Despite being non muslim they can claim to be muslim.<p>

[Guest]

And the infallible Nizari Hazar Imam divorced his first wife. He chose her infallibly and divorced her infallibly.<br>

[Guest]

Thank you all for the discussion...but as far no one has answered my original question"<p>"Did I miss something...how can the Imamate pass from the Imam to his grandson..and bypass he two living sons?"<br>

[Guest]

<br>answer is simple.<p>So called HI is from allah. That is 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999%Allah. Therefore he can make any rules he dam'n pleases.<p>Wasalaam<p>