Sura 4 v 174/175 (Debate Excerpt - Sunni vs Ismaili)

[Guest]

Under the following link was discussed Muslim First aka Akberally's understanding of the ayaths 4:59 and 5:67 or the Religious Authority, per 4:59, means the sahih hadiths and the Prophet's mission as per 5:67 was to proclaim that all follow the sahih hadeeths.<br>http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/ubb/Forum ... html<p>Let us now look Sura 4 v 174/175.<br>First, I'll post the Ismaili perspective as explained by br Jalaledin and follow it up with Akberally's response under a second post.<br>________<p>Asalaam Alaikum, Akbarally<p>So, please correct me if I am wrong, you are on a personal mission to save the murids of the Imam from practising the faith as it is interpreted by Karim Aga Khan.<p>You are suggesting, therefore, that your interpretation of the faith is correct and the Imam's interpretation of the faith is incorrect and that in fact the Imams are misguiding their followers?<p>Is that how we are to understand your mission?<p>What about other tariqas of Islam? Are they all interpreting the faith incorrectly based on your "interpretation"? <p>Then perhaps you can enlighten us on the meaning of Sura 4 v 174/175<p>Now, Akbarally, without getting all hostile about the Ismaili interpretation, <br>please just offer us your interpretation.<p>"O Mankind! Verily<br>There hath come to you<br>A convincing proof<br>From your Lord:<br>For We have sent unto you<br>A light (that is) manifest.<p>Then those who believe <br>in God, and hold fast<br>To Him, - soon will He<br>Admit them to Mercy<br>And Grace from Himself.<br>And guide them to Himself<br>By a Straight Way."<p>Love and light,<p>Jalaledin<br>_____<br>NOTE: <br>Akberaly or Muslim First response follows next

[Guest]

This post deals with the response from Akberally or Muslim First to the above position.<p>Pls note: This is the only response from Akberally on Sura 4 v 174/175.<br>_________<p>This is an interesting mail...<p>Keep it on the back burner...<p>Please bring it in the front when we have dealt with the earlier verses...<p>"Words of Allah" have to be understood seriously and carefully... Cannot RUSH the issues... like a Poem..<p>BTW.. do you believe in each and every verse as it is preserved and these verses are not time bound and Allah is the Hafiz of HIS WORDS... who has personally undertaken to safeguard it....?<br>________<p>What a response from a person on dawah to save ismailis, bohras and 12'ers and not to mention the deviant sufis.<p>Now, you can understand the futility in br Jalaledin's voice when he said:<br> "Now, Akbarally, without getting all hostile about the Ismaili interpretation, <br>please just offer us your interpretation."<br>

[Guest]

So, muslim first aka akberally,<p>Are you ashamed that you now pretend not to be akberally? I would be too! Just look at your response posted in the post#2 above and also in the following thread:<p>Topic: Ayaths 4:59 & 5:67 (Debate excerpts: Sunni vs Ismaili) <br>http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/ubb/Forum ... l<p>Muslim First,<br>Your understanding of aya 4:59 or "those charged with authority" is the Sunnah or the Sahih hadeeths:<br> "O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you..."<p>Muslim First,<br>Your understanding of aya 5:67 or "what the Prophet was sent by Allah to proclaim" was his Sunnah or the Sahih Hadeeths:<br> "O Messenger! proclaim the (message) which hath been sent to thee from thy Lord. If thou didst not, thou wouldst not have fulfilled and proclaimed His mission.." <p>Muslim First,<br>Can we equally assume that aya 4:174 or 'A light that is Manifest' also means the sunnah or the sahih hadeeths. You can say that it stands for the 'book' or quran but we all know that the Sahih Hadeeths represent the Quran, are the meanings of the quran and is even superior to the Quran:<br> "O Mankind! Verily There hath come to you<br>A convincing proof From your Lord:<br>For We have sent unto you<br>A light (that is) manifest."<p>Let us play your response once again, to the question put forward by the nizari ismaili brother Jalaledin:<br>QUOTE<br>This is an interesting mail...<p>Keep it on the back burner...<p>Please bring it in the front when we have dealt with the earlier verses...<p>"Words of Allah" have to be understood seriously and carefully... Cannot RUSH the issues... like a Poem..<p>BTW.. do you believe in each and every verse as it is preserved and these verses are not time bound and Allah is the Hafiz of HIS WORDS... who has personally undertaken to safeguard it....?<br>UNQUOTE<p>Muslim First,<br>This kind of garbage only works with mental misfits like you and those who follow in your creed!

[Guest]

Ismailis are taught that keep repeating a lie over and over again and it will become the truth.<p>Not on this board. Your ass has been kicked before and will be again. We never get tired of a good ass kicking.

[Guest]

anajmi,<br>Go easy on that imported 'Camel Urine' that you have been drinking for your mental health (Volume 8, Book 82, Number 794), it has gone straight to your shrunken brain and made you delusional. You are not beating anybody's ass rather you make an ass of yourself everytime you open your mouth. <p>Only a deluded ass would think that the blasphemous hadeeths of the sunni-wahabi madzab REVERE the prophet.<br>

[Guest]

<br>Hafeez wrote: "So, please correct me if I am wrong, you are on a personal mission to save the murids of the Imam from practising the faith as it is interpreted by Karim Aga Khan."<p>Question:<p>Does Karim Aga Khan read Arabic?<p>What does he know about Quran?<p>Between casinos, Racing Horses and brand new wife, when does he get time to interpret Islam or Quran?<p>Aga Khan's religion is not Islam but his brand of interpretation to look like Hindusim.<p>A ploy to attect gullible ignorant Hindu's. and may be one or two Hafeez who want to be counted as muslim but still want to enjoy wine,women and gambling. And still feel good about it.<p><p>

[Guest]

Come to think about it, it tastes better than the Aga Khan urine that you have been drinking!!

[Guest]

muslim first aka akberally says:<br>--Aga Khan's religion is not Islam but his brand of interpretation to look like Hindusim--<p>You still do not get it, do you? <br>Do I give a rat's axx what you think the nizari ismaili are or are not? What do you get off on? <br>The fumes of camel urine!<p>Any creed is better than Sunni-wahabi Islam and those who associate with this creed and their 'blasphemous' sahih hadeeths of bukhari are indeed the 'lowest of the low'.

[Guest]

<br>Hafeez wrote: "Do I give a rat's axx what you think the nizari ismaili are or are not? What do you get off on? "<p>If thats what how you feel about it then why are we arguing?<p>Read the following:<p>Say: O ye that reject Faith! <br>I worship not that which ye worship<br>Nor will ye worship that which I worship. <br>And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship<br>Nor will ye worship that which I worship.<br>To you be your Way and to me mine. <br>Surah Al-Kafirun Surah 109<br>Mecca (18) 6 Ayahs<br>Interpreted Translation by M. Yusuf Ali<p><p>

[Guest]

Hafeez,<p>Picture this,<p>There are a million that do not give a rat's ass about what the sunni wahabis think and there are a billion that do not give a rat's ass about what the Ismailis think!!