Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Bulk of Buffett money going to Gates fund

Warren Buffet decides to donate 85% of his fortune. Now beat that Aga Khan.

I hope some of the Saudi billionaires will learn a lesson, but I doubt it, their masters probably won't approve.

some time back it was discuused that some dahodwalla guy donated a lot of money to the devolopment of seifee hospital.some skeptics came on the board and said that he did it to save tax.so how does this person say about bill gates.is he also saving taxes?

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Givng away money to charity is always part of tax and estate planning. I am sure savings in taxes did figure into Sh. Dahod's charity. It was good deed and Dahodwala family desrves credit and Inshah-Allah will be rewarded in the Akhira.

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Warren B. and B. Gates earned their money with their brains.If they loose all their money,they still have their brains,so they can always get it back.The others Br. Anajmi mentions got their's without brains. People like such will only collect,even if they have to cheat it out of Yateem and Miskeen.They feel if the money goes it will never come back.They lack the trust in themselves and in God.

I hope some of the Saudi billionaires will learn a lesson, but I doubt it, their masters probably won't approve.

The trick my friend Anajmi, is not to have a political system that does not accomodate Masters

Correction: to have a political system that does not accomodate Masters

I know that, "my friend", but unfortunately their masters won't allow it.

Iraq and Afghanistan anyone?????? It's a good thing I am not wasting as much of my time with morons as I used to.

Saddam and Mullah Omar anyone ???? Sorry, didn't know you were a fan.

Forgot about that. Saddam was going to destroy us all with his weapons of mass destruction in 45 minutes.

I think it would be smarter to be a Bush fan. :p

Najmi,

Warren Buffet decides to donate 85% of his fortune. Now beat that Aga Khan.

Warren Buffet is doing a good thing. So is Bill Gates and Oprah Winfrey. Now I had like to see your Wahabi Imam to match this. There is no match for Aga Khan’s contribution to humanity in this world and there never will be and that is a challenge. From Warren Buffet to Bill Gates to Aga Khan. Bill Gates recently contributed money to Aga Khan’s projects! He realized with all his billions he cannot reach the parts of the world the Aga Khan can reach. Bill Gates does not have the benefit of the volunteers that Aga Khan has. He would have to pay his people which will take away money from the needy. Bill Gates did not send his helicopters to rescue the Earthquake victims in Pakistan, Aga Khan did. Bill Gates did not send his planes to Uganda and Afghanistan to airlift refugees in these countries, Aga Khan did. Bill Gates' contribution is limited to certain areas and certain parts of the world. Aga Khan’s projects have no boundaries! Only you do not see this in American newspapers but BBC and Third World countries are well aware of Aga Khan’s projects. Also, you and your clan shut your eyes at the mention of Aga Khan's contribution. I already smell burnt meat and fumes!

Warren Buffet woke up when he realized that he was going to go to his grave soon so he had better do something for the humanity. Aga Khan has been helping humanity since he was 20 years old and for the past 49 years he has helped humanity, even those like you who have abused him. Reminds me of a hadith of the Prophet. When people asked him why does God not punish those who abuse the Prophet because your Jahaliya friends used to throw stones at the Prophet, they called him crazy, bad mouthed him the way you do our Imam and the the Bohora Dai. The Prophet gave an example of the Pharoh. The Prophet said that these ignoramuses will see a lot of happiness in the world, they will progress a lot but a time will come when one by one calamities will befall them starting with their children. So let your mouth run or curb it for the sake of your family. There was an interview with Susan and Buffet Jr on ABC with Diane Sawyer today. These children of Buffet have decided that they are going to help the humanity. They are already in their 50s. Where were they when they were 20 years old? However, better late than never!

MFr ask people in Gujarat and Pakistan and find out how many people have received water and electricity because of the Aga Khan. Of course with “All your knowledgeâ€

There's one other difference between Aga Khan and Warren Buffet.. the most important one that you forgot to mention. Warren Buffet is donating his own money.

Anajmi: here I have to agree with you. Well warren buffet and bill gates are donating their own money.

Africawala: where did agha khan get the money to serve humanity when he was twenty years old.

one more thing, is agha khan foundation a religious foundation or a humanitarian relief organization. Because in either case it will be overlapping other.

Accountability:

It would be better if you used your own brain to rely on, than the one that is already fried. Remember smooching will get you nowhere. You should learn from experience! However, I do not expect anything better from you. Now go check out the following and tell me whose money is going to glide Foundation.

You too Anajmi: If you cannot click, then cut and paste.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Warren-Buffett-Powe ... dZViewItem

As regards Aga Khan’s money, if you are a Shia Muslim of Dawoodi Bohora Sect, then you should know that you have to pay Ushr, Khums, Zakah to your Imam. So Aga Khan gets part of his money from his followers, big deal! However, there is no compulsion. It is left to your own conscience. Nobody knows what you give and what you do not give. We have been that route before.
Most of his money comes from his own investments, private donors like the parsi woman who left 2 million dollars to AKU in Pakistan last year, Bill Gates, Foreign Governments, World Bank, UNESCO, etc. . If you are a literate person I am sure you will have read it in the news papers. If not, then go make your own research and find out how many Agencies Aga Khan leads and who are his major donors, Ismailis are not the only ones.

As regards AKF, it is not the only institution established by the Aga Khan. There are many, many more of them with different mandates. They are not religious institutions. They are to serve humanity, so your "overlapping" makes no sense. Serving humanity is a religious ethic.

As regards where he got his money from when he was 20 years old? What a stupid question. As a hereditary Imam he heredited Imamati institutions from his grandfather .

Accountability, I think you should go behind the “curtainâ€

Africawala: where did agha khan get the money to serve humanity when he was twenty years old.

This is indeed a high bar to set for charity especially when Muslims are not known to be philanthropists. Does the source of income really matter with the bulk of the Muslim population living below poverty level ? It is primarily Western aid that sustains Muslims with food, clothing, medicine and education, while the meager Islamic charities build the Madrasas.

AM,

Considering the fact that the west is primararily responsible for the spread of poverty and hunger in the muslim world, they have to at least maintain that outlook to fool morons like you into believing them.

Consider for eg Palestine where Israel has destroyed all forms of palestinian livelihood and the west has blocked all aid from reaching the palestinians thereby starving them.

Consider Iraq where 60% of the population was employed by Saddam before the war and now there is 60% unemployment.

Accountability:

Please read below if you are man enough to admit how ignorant you are of the Aga Khan's contribution to the world. This is just a drop in the bucket brother. If you have the stomach, I can provide you more.

Read below, how long Aga Khan Schools have been around in Africa!

http://ismaili.net/timeline/2005/20050904allafrica.html

Read on more what Aga Khan does for the world and where his money comes from. The below site will tell you how his family is involved in the betterment of Allah's creation together with the Aga Khan. This is what Islam is! You make fun of this family and slander them, you will burn in hell and right here on earth.

http://ismaili.net/timeline/2006/200605 ... erive.html

http://www.ismaili.net/timeline/2006/20 ... sseng.html

http://www.ismaili.net/timeline/2006/20060302akdn.html

http://ismaili.net/timeline/2005/20051119akdn.html

Lastly, I see Anajmi has unleashed his female dog on you, huh? Still you do not learn! Smooch, Smooch!

Most of my friends were Aghakhanis,the only thing that bothered me was the picture of Agha Khan in everyhouse I went to.I always considered the presence of a picture to be idol worshipping.I know that the Bohries are doing it too.Ofcourse we were never orignal. Some of the things that goes on with our bohri jamat has been done by the Jews.I have a friend who is Jew and disgruntled like I am.The boxes in masjid was done by them long long time ago.Pews were bought by the wealthy 50 years ago. Yes nobody can deny the good things Agha Khan has done for poor people.

Dear brother seeker,

It is true, in every Ismaili house you go you will see a picture of Aga Khan. Bohras carry the picture of Syedna in every house too. I have, in my house, pictures of my parents, my children, my friends. I do not worship them, but I love these people and so I have their pictures. So it depends on your attitude towards pictures.

In Ommayad Mosque in Syria, right in the middle of the Mosque is the tomb of dead Hazarat Yahya. And what about the tombs of our revered Imams in Najaf and Kerbala. Again in Syria, in the Syeda Zainab Mosque and Syeda Rukaiya Mosque, there are the tombs of both the revered ladies.

Thanks for acknowledging that Aga Khan has done a lot of good in the world. Unfortunately, not many Muslims who see this acknowledge this. They pretend to be deaf and dumb. Rightly so.They are deaf and dumb!

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What is ruling on those who do not pray traditional Salah.
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One Who Ignores His Prayers
Fiqh-us-Sunnah No.1:177b

Not praying and denying its obligation is seen as disbelief and places the person outside the religion of Islam. All scholars agree on this piont. They base their opinion on several hadith, some of which are:

Jabir reports that the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said, "Between a person and disbelief is discarding prayer." (Related by Ahmad, Muslim, Abu Dawud, at-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah.)

Buraidah reported that the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said, "The pact between us and them is prayer. Whoever abandons it is a disbeliever." (Related by Ahmad, Abu Dawud, at-Tirmidhi, anNasa'i and Ibn Majah.)

'Abdullah ibn 'Amr ibn al-'Aas reported that the Prophet, upon whom be peace, one day mentioned the prayer and said, "Whoever guards and observes his prayer, they will be a light and a proof and a savior for him on the Day of Resurrection. Whoever does not guard and obvserve them, they will not be a light or a proof or a savior for him. On the Day of Resurrection, he will be with Qarun, Fir'aun, Haman and Ubayy ibn Khalf." (Related by Ahmad, at-Tabarani and Ibn Hibban. Its chain is excellent.)

That one who does not pray will be with the leaders of the unbelievers in the Hereafter makes it evident that such a person is an unbeliever. Says Ibn al-Qayyim, "The one whodoes not pray may be preoccupied with his wealth, kingdom, position or business. If one is kept away from his prayers by his wealth, he will be with Qarun. One whose kingdom keeps him away from the prayers will be with Haman, and one whose businesskeeps him away from the prayers will be with Ubayy ibn Khalf."

Says 'Abdullah ibn Shaqiq al-'Aqeely, "The companions of Muhammad, peace be upon him, did not consider the abandonment of any act, with the exception of prayer, as being disbelief." (Related by at-Tirmidhi and al-Hakim, who said it met al-Bukahri's and Muslim's conditions.)

Says Muhammad ibn Nasr al-Mirwazi, "I heard Ishaq say, 'It is authentic (that) the Prophet (said or ruled): One who does not pray is an unbeliever." It is from the Prophet himself that one who intentionally does not pray until the time for the prayer is over is an unbeliever."

Says Ibn Hazm, "It has come from 'Umar, 'Abdurahman ibn 'Auf, Mu'adh ibn Jabal, Abu Hurairah and other companions that anyone who skips one obligatory prayer until its time has finished becomes an apostate. We find no difference of opinion among them on this point." This was mentioned by al-Mundhiri in at-Targheeb wa atTarheeb. Then he comments, "A group of companions and those who came after them believed that anintentional decision to skip one prayer until its time is completely finished makes one an unbeliever. The people of this opinion incude 'Umar ibn al-Khattab, 'Abdullah ibn Mas'ud, 'Abdullah ibn
'Abbas, Mu'adh ibn Jabal, Jabir ibn 'Abdullah and Abu ad-Darda'. Among the non-companions who shared this view were Ibn Hanbal, Ishaq ibn Rahwaih, 'Abdullah ibn al-Mubarak, an-Nakha'i, al-Hakim ibn 'Utaibah, Abu Ayyub as-Sakhtiyani, Abu Dawud at-Tayalisi, Abu Bakr ibn Abu Shaibah, Zuhair ibn Harb, and others.

Some hadith make it clear that such a person should be killed. For example:

Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said, "The ties of Islam and the principles of the religion are three, and whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever, and his blood becomes lawful: testifying that there is no god except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan." (Related by Abu Ya'la with a hassan chain.) Another narration states, "If anyone leaves one of them, by Allah he becomes an unbeliever and no voluntary deeds or recompense will be accepted from him, and his blood and wealth become lawful." This is a clear indication that such a person is to be killed.

Ibn 'Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, "I have been ordered to kill the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah." (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.)

Umm Salamah related that the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said, "There will be rulers over you who will do good and evil things. Whoever hates these (latter) acts will be innocent of them. Whoever denies them will be safe, but (not) one who accepts and follows them." They asked, "Should we kill them?" He said, "Not if they pray." (Related by Muslim.) Therefore, he made it unlawful to kill even an unjust ruler who observes his prayers.

Abu Sa'eed reported that 'Ali, while he was in Yemen, sent the Prophet some gold, which he then divided among four people. A man said, "O Messenger of Allah, beware of Allah." The Prophet said, "Woe to you. Of all the people of the earth, am I not the most dutiful in being aware of Allah?" Khalid ibn al-Walid said, "O Messenger of Allah, shall I kill him?" He said, "Perhaps he is one of those who pray." Khalid said, "How many people say with their tongues what is not in their hearts?" The Prophet said, "I have not been ordered to look into the hearts of people, nor to rip open their bellies." (Abridged
from al-Bukhari and Muslim.) In this hadith also, prayer is given as the reason for not killing a person. It is understood, therefore, that not praying would have resulted in the person's killing.

Even though the preceding hadith clearly rule that one who discards salah becomes an unbeliever and should be killed, many early and later scholars (excluding Abu Hanifah, Malik and ash-Shafi) believe that such people become evildoers who must repent. If such a person does not repent, he is to be killed, that being the prescribed punishment, according to Malik, ash-Shai'i and others. Abu Hanifah maintains that such a person is not to be killed, but must be given a minor punishment and confined until he prays. They say the hadith that calls such people unbelievers refer to those who deny the prayers, and so on. They say that any other interpretation is contradicted by other texts. For example, Allah says, "Lo! Allah does not pardon one who gives Him partners. He pardons all save whom He wills" (an-Nisa' 116). There is also a hadith related by Abu Hurairah and recorded by Ahmad and Muslim in which the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said, "Every prophet has a special supplication that is answered. Every prophet hastened to make his supplication, but I concealed mine and will use it for my nation on the Day of Resurrection. It will be granted--Allah willing--to whoever dies without associating any partners with Allah." Al-Bukhari also recorded that Abu Hurairah reported that the Prophet, upon whom be peace, said, "The person who will be the happiest due to my intercession is the one who says, 'There is no god but Allah' sincerely from his heart."

Says ash-Shaukani, "The truth of the matter is that he becomes an unbeliever who is to be killed for his unbelief. The hadith authenticates that Islamic law calls one who does not pray an unbeliever. It has also put the performance as the barrier between a believer and an unbeliever. Abandoning prayer means he may be called an unbeliever. We need not concern ourselves with arguments presented by those of the opposing opinion. We can say to them: It is not impossible that some types of unbelievers may obtain forgiveness or may have a right to intercession, such as the unbelief of those who pray to ( our) qiblah.
Nevertheless, the fact remains that they commit some sins which the Islamic law views as unbelief. To turn to the other narrow interpretations is just redundant."
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MF,

You should not waste your time, because I do not read anything you post. I do not know how many others do, but frankly you do not carry much weight. You are a waste of time.

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Yes Brother;

It is little bit tough to understand and even tougher to stomach. You just cannot change fundamental requirement of religion (Traditional Salah) and call yourself practicing Muslims. It is tough to be Muslim. Much easier to be follower of HI. You can race the horses but not bet on it (Ya I believe it!). You can own the business involved in haraam items. You can marry your daughters to non Muslims and best of it go to Mulki and get sprinkled with Holy water and come out sinless.

Peace Brother
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I cant comprehend the stuff people write to one another.The dual going on between Anajmi and Africawala.Why cant they take people as they are.Would it better if they were following some branch of Christainity.Would they behave the same way.People have the right to believe the things they want.Why force the Islam of ones own understanding.We all have faults and do things that are easier for us to do.If it satisfies one to pray 5 times its his business.If one thinks the mystry of Allah is something that needs to explored,is his matter.All of a sudden people show you their own way and claim you dont need to look any further.
I am muslim because my parents are muslim.So is the case with most of us.If we dont explore and stay stuck to only one faith,we have enjoyed only one flavor.All others are on wrong path according to any religion.I had the chance to read about the Bahaie faith.The first thing it mentioned is Bahaullah's path is the right one, forget about everything else.Look deeper and you will find all the religions are stuck to the same mantra.
There were people in this world five thousand years ago.You would think people hated each other then, but probably for other reasons than being born a muslim,christian or a jew.Why do we get our knickers in knots if somebody belongs to diffrent faith.If the basic belief in all religion is universal brotherhood how come we throw it out the window first. If we cant tolerate each other because of our own beliefs, then what good is the good book for.
It boggles my mind to think Allah gave us so many religions.Its like distributing hate among mankind.Lets see about my own faith.First there were Nabi's.The system was working fine.Than after nabis came the imams.Surely the people divided again.now we have to deal with Dai's. some corrupt like a third world Govt. servant.
When I was growing up,my father would wake us up in the morning for prayers.At times in winter I didnt want to get out of warm bed.I probably stayed up half the night reading books.I had absolutely no desire to praise Allah but I did because otherwise he would be mad.Go to masjid and you will see antiques.Where are the young people.Sometimes it feels like a persons sexual desire is propotional to the ammount of prayers he performs.
Here I go enough for you momins to tell me how I going to be punnished.Go ahead all you jannatis keep the door closed because I questioned. Salams

seeker,

The problem here is that people who are forcing the islam of ones own understanding are not anajmi or muslim first but you and africawala.

Anajmi's and Muslim First's understanding of Islam is nothing but the quran and the sunnah. However we now have a different understanding of Islam from you like love of Allah on the beach and in the forest and then from the Ismailis where sprinkle some water and you are sinless. You are the ones bringing forcing your own understanding which based on nothing but your own conveniences on others.

Br. Anajmi you got me wrong.I certainly have no reason to convert you to my side because I am so lost myself.Once I had a girl friend,who liked my way of life so much that she wanted to convert to Islam.My reply to her was that she has found the worst of the muslims to be considering such a change.How did you come to think I am trying to push my thinking on you or anybody else is beyond me.
I am just figuring out things myself.the water is too murky still.I dont find your religious views to have compation.There is no forgiveness from Allah.Dont you ever hear Khuda mere ghunah maf kar.Do you think that He does and will omit your trespasses.For you its a line in the sand.No if and buts.
There is a standard way a sermon goes from the religious leaders.first scare the hell out.Then make them happy with Allahs forgiving nature and again remind them of the scary part. Inbetween those flip flops collect money.Message was simple made complicated by the bussiness part.The problem is you run a one act play.

seeker,

I don't have my own religious views. My views are what is in the quran and sunnah. If that is what you don't like then you can try the Gita.

I may or maynot.But shouldnt you sell your version of Islam instead of promoting Gita.You do know its imposible to sell your version to Bohras,We may have our problems but we are a
united bunch.You on the other hand are loose bunch,with no center.
Salams

seeker,

Unlike you, I am not selling my own version of Islam. No where does the quran say that you can avoid praying if you spend the day at the beach admiring Allah beautiful creation. No where does the quran say that don't waste your time doing wudhu. That is you peddling your version of Islam.

The bohras are united going where?

Salaams.