Palestinian Elections

[Average Bohra]

I credit the Palestinians for voting against the Fatah led PA corruption. A fact, they have finally acknowledged but all on this board have disagreed with me on. Leaving our opinions on Hamas aside for the moment, it is most likely that the US which accounts for 50% of the PA budget will stop its funding, and possibly the EU may follow suit. This will prove catastrophic for the Palestinians, even if Hamas cleans up the corruption (which won't happen).

Will the Arab world step up and fill this void in funding ? Why was the US supplying 50% of the funding in the first place ? Not that the US shouldn't, but why has the "Arab world" who continues to benefit from this conflict not contributing all of the money ?

[anajmi]

I am actually for the US cutting off aid to every muslim nation. It should cut off aid to Hamas. It should cut off aid to Egypt and Pakistan immediately, it should also declare that it will not support Saudi Arabia in case of a terrorist attack. Every other Muslim nation that recieves aid from the US should be immediately cut off.

That will be the best for the muslim ummah. That way they will then be able to get rid of their corrupt leadership and install democracies from within without the "help", that Iraq has received, from the Americans.

[Muslim]

the US which accounts for 50% of the PA budget

Please tell us your source for this information.

[Average Bohra]

Muslim,

For obvious reasons the Palestinian Authority does not seem to publish the annual aid it receives. The information I posted was from European and US based sources, who you will not trust.

Please feel free to post the correct percentage, if you know the above to be wrong.

[Muslim]

Average Bohra,

Why do you assume we won't trust them? Please just tell us the source.

I think US funding was closer to 1% of the PA budget for 2004.

[Average Bohra]

"we" ? "us" ? Exactly who are you speaking for? Please clarify.

If you think I am wrong, you tell me why ( I will even settle for Arab sources). I will give you a hint though, dump the "1%" source.

[anajmi]

Muslim,

You are right. American aid to Palestine was less than 1%.

[anajmi]

However, I am still for it being cut off completely so that we do not have these falsified figures floating around that cause the palestinians to be held hostage to do America's bidding.

[Muslim]

AB,

Ok then: The 2004 PA budget was about $1.7bn [1] with actual expenditure in 2004 of around $1.35bn [2]. The US provided $20m of this [2 & 3]. That's closer to 1%. Saudi Arabia provided $77m, nearly four times as much as the US, towards the PA Budget for 2004 [2].

[1] http://www.mof.gov.ps/english-bud/summe ... 0table.htm
[2] http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Pr ... p?ID=17188
[3] http://www.usaid.gov/wbg/faq.htm#aa2

Now will you tell me the source of your assertion that the US accounts for 50% of the PA budget?

[Average Bohra]

Muslim,

My apologies, as I meant 50% of aid to the Palestinians and not the PA. The US has a policy of not giving aid directly to the PA. The $20 million was I think one of only 3 times that an exception was made and a some money was given directly to the PA for reforms.

The rest of the US aid is channeled through private contractors and UN Agencies.The point remains, what if the US does discontinue this aid and possibly the EU ?

[anajmi]

The voice of the people

"The Palestinians have arguably carried out one of the only truly democratic elections in the Middle East, all the while under occupation and without a formal State.

One just had to look at the disgusted and bemused looks on the faces of CNN anchors when they were reporting the news of the Palestinian earthquake, or the knee-jerk reactions by American and Israeli politicians that they will not have anything to do with the new Hamas government, to understand that commitment to democracy is, to say the least, skin deep."

[Average Bohra]

I am actually for the US cutting off aid to every muslim nation. It should cut off aid to Hamas. It should cut off aid to Egypt and Pakistan immediately, it should also declare that it will not support Saudi Arabia in case of a terrorist attack. Every other Muslim nation that recieves aid from the US should be immediately cut off.

That will be the best for the muslim ummah. That way they will then be able to get rid of their corrupt leadership and install democracies from within without the "help", that Iraq has received, from the Americans.

I happen to agree, but then again it is a question of be careful what you wish for. A democratic movement in Saudi Arabia would most likely replace the corrupt "monarchy" with an autocratic Wahabi government. Take your pick...I know you are OK with that, but experience proves otherwise.

Since these regimes have not allowed any political leaders to emerge, combined with the low literacy rates, the population gravitates toward Mullahs. Not a solution in my opionion, and usually a step down. Just like in Iraq.....

[anajmi]

Actually, according to me, anything other than being an American lapdog would be a step up.

[anajmi]

The current Iraqi regime is still an American lapdog. Saddam wasn't ready to be, hence - a step down.

[Average Bohra]

The current Iraqi regime is still an American lapdog. Saddam wasn't ready to be, hence - a step down.

All Mulsim regimes are somebody's lap dogs. Saddam was one too, and then he stepped down , but your support for him was unwavering. Time to revisit those principles.....

Bottom line is history has shown that governments following Hadiths or Islam fail miserably; choice is secular democracy or somebody's puppet.

[anajmi]

Actually, I don't think I am going to be wasting any more of my time discussing politics with you. I feel like Bill Murray stuck in Groundhog Day.

[Average Bohra]

You should....with the political system you support.

[Humsafar]

I credit the Palestinians for voting against the Fatah led PA corruption. A fact, they have finally acknowledged but all on this board have disagreed with me on.

I don't think so. As far as I can remember nobody has ever condoned the PA corruption. In fact, I must have referred to it quite a few times in my posts.

As for lapdogs, it is too facile to equate corrupt Muslim autocracis with lapdogs. What about the UK? One cannot find a better example of an enlightened secular democracy who answers to that name.

[Average Bohra]

It is arrogant to assume that if someone sides with America on a policy that you or I may not agree with, that they are lap dogs. Blair is very poplular in the UK, even after his decision to side with the US. France and Germany did not back the US, is France then Germany's lapdog or vice versa ? You are going down a slippery slope.

[Humsafar]

Someone doing the master's bidding is a lackey, a lapdog. Of late the UK, led by Blair, has been doing exactly that - much against the wishes of the majority of Britons. If he won the election it was by default because the opposition parties were weak and worn out. The public perception about Blair - outside of the charmed American/British circles - is that he is an American stooge. And perceptions are not formed in a vacuum. Here is the
USA Today article to illustrate the point.

It is disingenuous to bring France - Germany into the equation. All countries have their geo-politic agendas but we all know that these two countries do not fetch the ball for each other or for some other master.

[Average Bohra]

Other than the fact that it is your opinion, and I respect that, you have failed to backup your assertions as to when "Someone doing the master's bidding is a lackey, a lapdog", or are "fetching the ball" for each other vs. allies acting on their " geo-politic agendas "; Except that if you happen to agree with a policy it is the latter.

[Humsafar]

AB,

To answer your question I’ll have to go into detail and minutiae of history for which I neither have the time nor the inclination. And even if I did, it would be a waste of time because at the end of it you would still continue to parrot your received wisdom.

To come to the point, I was taking issue with your assertion “All Mulsim regimes are somebody's lap dogs.â€

[Average Bohra]

Humsafar,

Why even bother posting a reply let alone ask questions if you neither have the time nor the inclination. ? Isn’t that in itself a waste of time? I will gladly discuss every detail and minutiae of history with you, only when you have the time to pencil it into your calendar.

...and not that I will change your passion nor your wisdom for and regarding regimes which are neither secular democracies nor anybody’s puppet. ( China ? Cuba ? ).

[anajmi]

Arab states to aid Palestinians

[anajmi]

Humanitarian crisis on Gaza doorstep: UN