Syedna's Chehlum Waaz

[accountability]

Syedna gave sermons on Chehlum for more than two hours in Calcutta, his sermon included repetitative narration of Imam Hussain's martrydom, with long pauses for matam. Execept for one he asked Calcuttaites to pay 5 times sabeel. His one son was made operating trustee of newly created enterprise, of which he is the sole trustee. This sent dread down my spines.

If they are paying sabeel 5000 rupees annually, they will be paying 25000 atleast, because he said it is the minimum it could go even higher. An average indian earns 5000 rupees a month, so he will be donating 5 months of his total income. I am just wondering will he be able to live on Barakat and Ehsan for these five months. Syedna Saheb is very selective in performing miracle, he does so once or twice a year for one or two persons, if his miracles will keep one or two persons alive on Barakat and Ehsan, thousands others will be left to die.

His speech writers carefully choses the word, He said " Aa maaro Irshad che" irshad means Guidance. I have one question, if it is his guidance, then according to our religion it is incumbent upon every bohra to obey it. What if most of the calcutta people dont obey and do not increase their sabeel contribution 5 times. They all should be thrown out of jamat, if jamat does not do that then whole religious doctorine will be compromised.
if you let this guidance be ignored then why emphasize on others, or any. This is a very important question which should be answered.

[Gulf]

I will offer more and I will get more and more.. that's why moula asks mumineen to offer more to Daawat in order to get more and more wealthi for serving mankind

Alhamdolillah

[Humsafar]

I will offer more and I will get more and more.. that's why moula asks mumineen to offer more to Daawat in order to get more and more wealthi for serving mankind

Alhamdolillah

Have you considered serving mankind directly, without the middleman "Dawat"? That begs another question: How's the dawat serving mankind?

[ghulam muhammed]

that's why moula asks mumineen to offer more to Daawat in order to get more and more wealthi for serving mankind

"Serving Mankind" or serving himself and his extended family ? Or giving Narendra Modi, Bal Thackerey, Yusuf Patel and Haji Mastan fat cheques ? Or build palatial bunglows at lonavla, egypt etc etc. ? Or to fix gold taps in zaadas bathrooms ? Or to stuff more crystalware and silverware in his already overflowing storerooms at saifee mahal ?

[ghulam muhammed]

That begs another question: How's the dawat serving mankind?

After killing the "animal kind" in the jungles of africa.

[accountability]

I still standby my question, if people of calcutta do not pay 5 times sabeel, will they be thrown out of jamat or not.
I already got an email from calcutta, that families are asked to give tens of thousands of rupees for Syedna's visit.
I am sorry to be repetative, but if those who do not pay 5 times are not excomminucated then there will be a big question mark on authencity of whole doctorine.

[ozmujaheed]

then i must have missed the meaty start !

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... 772#p75772

[accountability]

Let me a bit elobrate, by posing above question I wanted to make a point. syedna saheb may not have the idea that his irshad will put so many people in unspeakable misery. Jamat hounds will try to make his irshad reality and will coerce people to pay what will be beyond their power. some might have to go to extreme or suffer more because of their situation.

Syedna saheb in the same waaz claimed that he is the best well wisher of his follower. But i fail to understand that how can a well wisher put his loved ones into such miseries. there will be poeple in calcutta who may not be hurt or not so much, but there will be so many others who will be hurt or badly hurt. I do not see the logic of this. sabeel is an administrative fees, usually local jamat decides how much and how to collect, though amil plays the big role but still jamat also has a say in it.
But now calcutta is owned by one of shahzada so jamat is irrelevant.

[Haggi]

To you all,
How can we be so blind to see through all these manipulations and extortions of money from us and still adhere to this so called religion.
I sometime fail to comprehend how a DB brain ticks. One one hand he is smart, literate and and business savvy but when it comes Deen he
becomes an abde and bends over to get his arse kicked happily.
This irshad of paying sabeel times 5 is a total manipulation to extort more and more and it comes out straight from the syednas mouth.
It reminds me of his muhharam wazz couple of years ago where he pathetically begged Mummin to pay maximum Wajibaat. At that moment I
did not know whether to feel sorry for him or get angry.
It is astonishing that we cannot acknowledge the fact that he is part of the problem and we will have to endure this even when he is gone
because someone from this well oiled so called royalty will take his place to engage in the same practice.
The Abdes think that all we progressives are bickering is about money but thats not the whole truth. The problem is where the money ends up
and how it is used and for whom. But then we have been on this topic forever without ever coming to conclusion what to do to counter this.
I have reached a point to realise that our community has for centuries has been living in an time warp of mohalla conditions whereby even thinking
of introspect of our failings or to see right from wrong has become an impossibility. This religion has morphed into a cult and I dont see it surviving
in the next few decades.Meanwhile please suffer.

[Maqbool]

get more and more wealthi for serving mankind

Will you please elaborate on this!!!

[S. Insaf]

Givig an estimation how much wealth Syedna Saheb and his family have, how the poor mumineen are suffering in acute poverty, some time back before Ramazan I had requested Syedna Saheb to stop collecting taxes like Wajebat and Sabil. But he has himself started asking far more and more. When will this greed end! Every year he organises "Zikra" function at Surat to remember his father late Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb, but he never reflects that his father after establishing his huge financial empire has gone empty handed. At the age of 100 years why and what for he is amassing this wealth?

[accountability]

I am watching Al Jazeera, they are broadcasting live images from October 6 bridge, I remember walking down on that brdige on niles. it is amazing there is a curfew imposed but there is a sea of people on that bridge, they have set ablaze a police truck they are trying to throw it into nile. I saw an army truck pass by the people without doing anything, people welcome it.

this is a message for all regimes, authoritarion, religious all regimes. Get out of the way of the people. people are getting rid of yoke of captivity. Good thing about it is, it is from people, ordinary people. Police are not firing any tear gas or rubber bullets, al jazeera is broadcasting historic images, police is on the side lines.
it may have a message for bohra administration. Time of captivity may be over. Dont own religion. Or slogan Down with Mubarak will be replaced with down with...............
if you want to watch live al jazeera here is the link, i was twitting but egypt closed internet.
http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

[Humsafar]

This is exhilarating - history in the making. It's easy to be swept away by the euphoria of the moment, but let's hope this is the beginning of a new era in the Arab world. It would be interesting to see how the US, the ardent supporter of Mideast despots, is going to react.

Closer to home, this must send a shiver down every "royal" spine - the illegitimate dawat will not last forever. Perhaps they have seen the writing on the wall, and the call for 5-times wajebat is a move to amass as much loot as quickly as possible. Will we ever see day when bohras will march on to the Saifee Mahal and torch it with their anger????!!!!

[asif786]

This is exhilarating - history in the making. It's easy to be swept away by the euphoria of the moment, but let's hope this is the beginning of a new era in the Arab world. It would be interesting to see how the US, the ardent supporter of Mideast despots, is going to react.

Closer to home, this must send a shiver down every "royal" spine - the illegitimate dawat will not last forever. Perhaps they have seen the writing on the wall, and the call for 5-times wajebat is a move to amass as much loot as quickly as possible. Will we ever see day when bohras will march on to the Saifee Mahal and torch it with their anger????!!!!

Inshallah this happens soon

[profastian]

This is exhilarating - history in the making. It's easy to be swept away by the euphoria of the moment, but let's hope this is the beginning of a new era in the Arab world. It would be interesting to see how the US, the ardent supporter of Mideast despots, is going to react.

Closer to home, this must send a shiver down every "royal" spine - the illegitimate dawat will not last forever. Perhaps they have seen the writing on the wall, and the call for 5-times wajebat is a move to amass as much loot as quickly as possible. Will we ever see day when bohras will march on to the Saifee Mahal and torch it with their anger????!!!!

Much later than the day when you guys will be torched in hell.

[guy_sam2005]

This is exhilarating - history in the making. It's easy to be swept away by the euphoria of the moment, but let's hope this is the beginning of a new era in the Arab world. It would be interesting to see how the US, the ardent supporter of Mideast despots, is going to react.

Closer to home, this must send a shiver down every "royal" spine - the illegitimate dawat will not last forever. Perhaps they have seen the writing on the wall, and the call for 5-times wajebat is a move to amass as much loot as quickly as possible. Will we ever see day when bohras will march on to the Saifee Mahal and torch it with their anger????!!!!

dude where did wajebaat come from???we were discussing sabeel on tis thread.........theway u bark at wrong tree if u were to lead torchin of saifee mahal ull end up torchin neighbors house or some thing............

[aqs]

If they are paying sabeel 5000 rupees annually, they will be paying 25000 atleast, because he said it is the minimum it could go even higher. An average indian earns 5000 rupees a month, so he will be donating 5 months of his total income.

Its a bit twisted calculation, no one is asked to pay 5k as sabeel that too per month, average sabeel in almost all indian cities is 1452 or 2100 rs. annually and more for only rich people. So 5k/months is a far fetched figure to base your point on.

What if most of the calcutta people dont obey and do not increase their sabeel contribution 5 times. They all should be thrown out of jamat, if jamat does not do that then whole religious doctorine will be compromised.
if you let this guidance be ignored then why emphasize on others, or any. This is a very important question which should be answered.

Syedna(tus) gives us hidayats but we fail to follow on all that does not mean the doctrine is compromised it just means that we need to do better next time.

[aqs]

Will we ever see day when bohras will march on to the Saifee Mahal and torch it with their anger????!!!!

Humsafar,

is this what Progs are fighting for? in the end you wish to burn down the official residence of Dai in whom you officially believe. If you can admit this on a open forum then i shudder to think what you guys must be planning in your close door secret meetings.

[Humsafar]

Much later than the day when you guys will be torched in hell.

That's OK, as long as that day comes.

dude where did wajebaat come from???we were discussing sabeel on tis thread.........theway u bark at wrong tree if u were to lead torchin of saifee mahal ull end up torchin neighbors house or some thing............

Guy, don't get too excited. Wajebat/sabeel same difference - it all translates into money!!!!

Humsafar,

is this what Progs are fighting for? in the end you wish to burn down the official residence of Dai in whom you officially believe. If you can admit this on a open forum then i shudder to think what you guys must be planning in your close door secret meetings.

aqs, I knew you will catch on to those words that's why I used them advisedly. I said "troched with anger" - which you could mean anything. Anyways, let me repeat that the reform movement believes in non-violence. The march on to the saife mahal - inshallah it will happen one day - will be by ordinary bohras, the disillusioned abdes, not reformists. Please stop shuddering, we are not holding andy secret, closed door meetings!!!! If you want to shudder, shudder at people's power - for when they are awakened no force in the world can stop them.

[accountability]

Aqs, I wish I could agree with you. I checked, in calcutta most of the poeple are paying sabeel upwards of Rs 4000. That is why I took the figure 5000. I am at loss to understand, what does Syedna saheb take into consideration before giving monetary hidayats.
You will concur that asking Rs20000 or Rs25000 to pay by an average working person is not very humane. I only wish that Syedna saheb has taken into consideration plight of ordinary bohras before giving monetary hidayat.
You will also agree with me, that jamat people will try to make this hidayat a reality. By doing so, so many people will suffer miserbaly. YOu may never know, for a sick person that amount may make a life and death difference. Jamat uses all coercive tools at its disposal, including stopping your day to day religious affair, or forbidding you from performing lot of things, or making you a pariah.
In misaq we dont swear to pay anything in return for hidaya. You may agree, as no jamat runs in transparent and honest manner, they are accoutable to none. They have no right to ask anything let alone increase many folds.
When I asked the above question, I wanted to make the point, that when it is known that such hidayats are not practical, why to put people into this embarassing situation.

[accountability]

Aqs, I wish I could agree with you. I checked, in calcutta most of the poeple are paying sabeel upwards of Rs 4000. That is why I took the figure 5000. I am at loss to understand, what does Syedna saheb take into consideration before giving monetary hidayats.
You will concur that asking Rs20000 or Rs25000 to pay by an average working person is not very humane. I only wish that Syedna saheb has taken into consideration plight of ordinary bohras before giving monetary hidayat.
You will also agree with me, that jamat people will try to make this hidayat a reality. By doing so, so many people will suffer miserbaly. YOu may never know, for a sick person that amount may make a life and death difference. Jamat uses all coercive tools at its disposal, including stopping your day to day religious affair, or forbidding you from performing lot of things, or making you a pariah.
In misaq we dont swear to pay anything in return for hidaya. You may agree, as no jamat runs in transparent and honest manner, they are accoutable to none. They have no right to ask anything let alone increase many folds.
When I asked the above question, I wanted to make the point, that when it is known that such hidayats are not practical, why to put people into this embarassing situation.

Aqs I did not say monthly, please read , I said annualy.

[SBM]

Aqs
If you can admit this on a open forum then i shudder to think what you guys must be planning in your close door secret meetings.

Corrections: The close door secret meetings are known as SABAKS

[Regal]

even if many people pay 2000 rs sabil with difficulty they now have to pay 10,000rs. how is that easy? normally syedna knows hidden ilm now he cant even see the financial state of his sheep?

[ghulam muhammed]

Much later than the day when you guys will be torched in hell.

This is called "Reflection of Thoughts".

[seeker110]

There will be bloodshed in any revolution.Haramkhore donot go away easily. There will be our blood and there will be theirs.I am sure we will win,you today,me tomorrow.Fire starts spontaneously.

[aqs]

Aqs, I wish I could agree with you. I checked, in calcutta most of the poeple are paying sabeel upwards of Rs 4000. That is why I took the figure 5000. I am at loss to understand, what does Syedna saheb take into consideration before giving monetary hidayats.
You will concur that asking Rs20000 or Rs25000 to pay by an average working person is not very humane. I only wish that Syedna saheb has taken into consideration plight of ordinary bohras before giving monetary hidayat.
You will also agree with me, that jamat people will try to make this hidayat a reality. By doing so, so many people will suffer miserbaly. YOu may never know, for a sick person that amount may make a life and death difference. Jamat uses all coercive tools at its disposal, including stopping your day to day religious affair, or forbidding you from performing lot of things, or making you a pariah.
In misaq we dont swear to pay anything in return for hidaya. You may agree, as no jamat runs in transparent and honest manner, they are accoutable to none. They have no right to ask anything let alone increase many folds.
When I asked the above question, I wanted to make the point, that when it is known that such hidayats are not practical, why to put people into this embarassing situation.

Accty,
Salaam
i have my reservations but to a very large extent i agree.

Aqs I did not say monthly, please read , I said annualy.

I am sorry i missed on the word

[ozmujaheed]

Has anyone tried to find out what is the reason for such a high sabeel ? So let the Abdes defend the spititual and charity aspects of Sabeel. I have my views !

Apart from Jamaat khanna expenses , most of the large costs are income and expenses for the amil and Zadas dividends for placing the amil.

Amils live like expat MD of multinational in a third world , eg car, maids, exlcusive furnishings, air travel, personal effects like iphone, unlimited phone calls, internet and Zee TV, cable, etc..Amil has to feel he is part and above the wealthy Sheiks he is associating with as his frontline.

Other costs are the corrupt Ayan who decides that he will get carpets upgraded every year just to show the Amil how loyal he is.

So next time you pay your Sabeel feel good and blessed.

[Maqbool]

Amils live like expat MD of multinational in a third world , eg car, maids, exlcusive furnishings, air travel, personal effects like iphone, unlimited phone calls, internet and Zee TV, cable, etc..Amil has to feel he is part and above the wealthy Sheiks he is associating with as his frontline.

And all this without paying proper income tax.

[aqs]

Amils live like expat MD of multinational in a third world , eg car, maids, exlcusive furnishings, air travel, personal effects like iphone, unlimited phone calls, internet and Zee TV, cable, etc..Amil has to feel he is part and above the wealthy Sheiks he is associating with as his frontline.

And all this without paying proper income tax.

All the Aamils are required to file their taxes on vazifa or salary recieved. rest all is considered as gifts and gift tax is paid accordingly, money collected in salaam is considered voluntary contribution.

[Maqbool]

And all this without paying proper income tax.

All the Aamils are required to file their taxes on vazifa or salary recieved. rest all is considered as gifts and gift tax is paid accordingly, money collected in salaam is considered voluntary contribution.

It is a blunt lie as per your habit.

They never show their full vajifa in income tax return and forget about the other income as gift tax. they are never shows this. I know this because I know from the person who helps them to manipulate in my city.