My Predicament

[anajmi]

This is just another joke.

I prefer Kareena Kapoor and you prefer Shahid Kapoora.

[ghulam muhammed]

You may prefer Kareena Kapoor, I may prefer Shahid Kapoor ........

I prefer Kareena Kapoor and you prefer Shahid Kapoora.

Then who prefers Shahrukh Khan ??? ........ I mean other then Karan Johar.

[ghulam muhammed]

Here we have Usool al- Kafi that is a collection narrations and traditions attributed to the Shiite Imams, Ahlul Bayt and the Prophet. Al-Kafi is the MOST reliable Shia Book, as the reliable Shia Scholars said and declared . Its author is Thiqat al-Islam Muhamad Ibn Yaqoob AlKulayni (A VERY reliable Shia Scholar, died in 328 H). Some Shi'ites scholars believe usool Al-Kafi was presented to the legendary Imam Qaem who liked it and said: "It suffices our Shi'ites" (al-Tharee'ah ela Tasaneef al-Shi'a: Agha Buzurg al-Tahraani; vol.17, p.245). Some quotes from the book are as under :-

The Shiite authentic works also permits homosexuality and sodomy: "(Narrated) Muhammad bin Yahya, from Ahmad bin Muhammad, from Muhammad bin Yahya, from Talha bin Zaid, from Abu Abdullah [as] said: The Messenger of Allah [pbuh] said: Whoever voluntarily let others sexually molest him, Allah will invest him with women's lust." [al-Kafi (fil Furoo') al-Kulainy, Book of Nikaah, Chapter: Who Let Others Sexually Molest Him, vol.5, p.549, narration 1.]

"(Narrated) Ali bin Ibraaheem from his father from al-Nufaly from As-Sukoony from (Imam) Abu Abdallah [as] said: Amierul-Mu'mineen (Ali) [as] said: (al-Luwaat ma doon ad-dubur, wad-dubur huwal-kufr) Sodomy is in (anything) other than dubur (anal sex), for dubur [has multi meanings] is actually the Kufr (disbelief)". The commentator on al-Kafi wrote: "It is possible to understand (from the statement) that Sodomizing (a man) is permissible" (Al-Kafi (fil Furoo'): Book of Marriage: Chapter of Sodomy, narration 3, vol.5, p.544

Inspite of the above, Grand Ayatollah Sayyid Ali al-Husayni al-Sistani (Arabic: السيد علي الحسيني السيستاني‎ Persian: سید علی حسینی سیستانی, born August 4, 1930 - Mashhad) the highest-ranking Twelver Shia marja in Iraq and the leader of the Hawza of Najaf issued a fatwa contrary to the shia teachings as quoted above from one of their most authentic books :-

In 2005 Sistani issued a fatwa on his website calling for the execution of gays in the "worst, most severe way". Following protests from UK-based Iraqi gay rights groups, Sistani agreed to remove the fatwa from his website except for the section calling for the punishment of lesbianism. Though the text of the fatwa has been removed its status has not been officially revoked. In January 2007, a United Nations report described the increased persecution, torture and extrajudicial killing of Iraqi lesbians and gay men by the Shia death squads of the Badr and Sadr militias (the armed wings of the two main Shia parties that control the government of Iraq).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_al-Sistani

[ghulam muhammed]

Just like Shias, various Sunni sects also impose rigorous punishments for homosexuality :-

•The Hanafi school does not consider same-sex intercourse to constitute adultery, and therefore leaves punishment up to the judge's discretion. Most early scholars of this school specifically ruled out the death penalty, others allow it for a second offence.
•Imam Shafi'i considers same-sex intercourse as analogous to other zina; thus, a married person found to have done so is punished as an adulterer (by stoning to death), and an unmarried one, as a fornicator, is left to be flogged.
•The Maliki school says that anyone (married or unmarried) found to have committed same-sex intercourse should be punished as an adulterer.
•Within the Ja'fari schools, Sayyid al-Khoi says that anyone (married or unmarried) found to have committed same-sex intercourse should be punished as an adulterer.

In Saudi Arabia, the maximium punishment for homosexuality is public execution, but the government will use other punishments, i.e. fines, jail time and whipping as alternatives, unless it feels that homosexuals are challenging state authority by engaging in a gay rights movement. Iran is perhaps the nation to execute the largest number of its citizens for homosexuality. Since its Islamic revolution in Iran, the Iranian government has executed more than 4000 people charged with homosexual acts. In Afghanistan after the fall of the Taliban homosexuality went from a capital crime to one that it punished with fines and prison sentence, and a similar situation seems to have occurred in Iraq.

http://www.religionfacts.com/homosexuality/islam.htm

[JC]

Bro GM,

Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, are these the places which could be named as 'places to live with freedon'?? These are rigid regimes which only go by their own way ........ right USA may be the same, but look at the basic human rights records ......... in Saudia you cannot be Shia, in Iran you cannot be Sunni ...... you do not have basic freedom and you talk of bigger issues ......... the issue, they follow their Religions blindly or better put that way, a mutilated form of their own version of a religion to suit their own needs and desires. Also, add, Fatimid Daidom of Bohraistan.

[depressed]

I created this thread on a bohra forum because i wanted the bohra point of view. And please other memebers dont politicize this thread. I do not care what the other islamic sects have to say about this issue, nor do i want an atheist point of view. If some bohra can help me i will be most thanksful.

[anajmi]

Everyone on this thread is a bohra with a differing point of view. If you want the orthodox bohra abde Syedna point of view then go talk to an Amil.

[ozmujaheed]

Depressed

Since you have committed and admitted you are in trouble

1 as per islamic law you will be judged at kayamat, I am educated that you will most likely go to hell, however Allah is the final judge

2 if you committ suicide you will destroy your family, and again this is sinfull, so imagine the 2cases you have to answer

3 no amil or fatwa can protect you, if you by chance are in a sharia operated place you will be punished, oppressed or put to death so be very cautious

4 I strongly recommend you strongly suppress your urge, do plenty of good deeds, ask for forgiveness, go for hajj and try to live a better life, and hope Allah judges you favoirably that is the best I can offer, but I am biased and do not support gay promotion, however I have to accept times are changing and we have to live and work together in this secular world.

Az no need to get impatient, this a hidden issue like drugs and it is good it is being discussed, it is an issue that affects the future generation good diversion for the moment from sayedna bashing. Depressed asked for a bohra view so was appropriate, grow up and don't be embarrassed to deal with modern issues.

[stranger]

I second that ^^

I third that ^^^

4th ^^^^

[Conscíous]

hehe ^^

[JC]

Thank you to for seconding, thriding and forthing me ........

Bro Anajmi,

May be bro Nalwala is correct, they were destroyed for lust ......... may be??!!

[anajmi]

bro nalwala probably doesn't even know which surah of the quran talks about lut and his people. But I guess that is what works for you right?

[Conscíous]

mustafanalwalla could be right about this "lust" thingie..

[SBM]

MN
which is why i feel that God destroyed them for a sin even greater than homosexuality - lust, greed, deprivation and degradation of moral values.

So for except Lust (may be) everything reflects about current Kothari Goons too.

[anajmi]

nalwala,

When you read the Quran, you should try to understand. Aren't straight people also prone to lust? Why were only lustful homosexuals destroyed?

[JC]

Thank you MN!

Anajmi - Yes I guess I would agree with MN because it helps me ........ there is some hope!!

What about destroying other nations and powers, one there was mightly Alexandar, Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire etc etc ......... have not they gone, what about lost civilizations, Babylon, Moenjo Daro, Harrapa .... why did God destroyed them, they were not homosexuals???? The common factor seems to be lust, greed, injustice, intolerance, infight, etc etc rather than sexual orientation?? Oh by the way what about various earthquacks or floods killing thousands of people .........????

[anajmi]

JC,

Anajmi - Yes I guess I would agree with MN because it helps me ........ there is some hope!!

I am not surprised there. Bhavtu tu ne vaidh e kidhu. Who cares about the qualifications of the vaidh!!

Alexandar, Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire etc etc ......... have not they gone, what about lost civilizations, Babylon, Moenjo Daro, Harrapa .... why did God destroyed them, they were not homosexuals????

I am sorry but I missed the surah or ayah of the Quran that talks about the destruction of these places as having any relevance to the message of the Quran. Can you point them out please? Quran talks about the destruction of many people and gives reason for why they were destroyed. What is not mentioned is not relevant to the discussion at hand. The people of Lut (as) were destroyed because of their homosexual lusts. Plain and simple. Let me tell you something. You ceased being a muslim the day you accepted homosexuality against the message of the Quran. You can go to as many scholars of the Quran like mustafanalwalla as you want. You cannot be a muslim homosexual. You are either a homosexual or a muslim.

[profastian]

You ceased being a muslim the day you accepted homosexuality against the message of the Quran. You can go to as many scholars of the Quran like mustafanalwalla as you want. You cannot be a muslim homosexual. You are either a homosexual or a muslim.

Everyone on this thread is a bohra with a differing point of view. If you want the orthodox bohra abde Syedna point of view then go talk to an Amil.

And you guys ceased to be dawoodi bohras the day you uttered curses to the Syedna....

[anajmi]

And you guys ceased to be dawoodi bohras the day you uttered curses to the Syedna....

And I am glad about that. Becoming a muslim is more important to me than remaining an abde slave idol worshipper.

[Al Zulfiqar]

And you guys ceased to be dawoodi bohras the day you uttered curses to the Syedna....

and what about the syedna? what about the unislamic acts that he commits even now and has committed in the past, like accepting sajdas from his slaves, listening to them singing 'sajda tujhe wajib hai', loving it when his fools call him haqiqi kaaba, natiqe quran, ghaib na maalik etc? hunting wild animals for pleasure and sport?

does he cease to be a dawoodi bohra and muslim???

[anajmi]

Dont be a fool and call me a scholar on the Quran, thats insulting the Holy Quran

Well now that we have established that, hopefully, JC will start looking for better people to interpret the Quran for him.

[anajmi]

mustafa,

One thing for sure is that progressives are way smarter than people like you and profastian. Even your comebacks do not give a hint of originality. Where did all the sabak knowledge go?

[feelgud]

Why Prostitution and Homo Sexuality is Haram in Islam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... Xbw2jLB-go

[anajmi]

Well now that we have established that, hopefully, JC will start looking for better people to interpret the Quran for him.

I dont think JC was looking to me to interpret the Quran. I have already established the fact that i am no one to do so.

Which leads me to me this question for you. If homosexuality is such a big sin in the eyes of Allah, why does he allow them to be born so? Why not smote them right now, where they stand? Why does He allow them to exist?

mustafanalwalla,

You have already accepted that you have no idea about religion or about Quran. But do you have to display your ignorance on every occasion? If Allah had prevented the birth of homosexuals, how would we know that it is haraam and a big sin? Besides, there are other big sins like murder, rape, oppression etc. If Allah allowed them to be born, then why not homosexuals as well? Idol worship is also a big sin, but they are born too aren't they? If sinners weren't allowed to be born, then why would we need a Quran to show us (all are sinners big or small) the straight path?

Secondly, am i looking for originality in my comebacks???

That was brilliant come back!!

anajmi - mustafanalwalla, you are stupid.
mustafanalwalla - Am I looking to be smart?

[profastian]

You have already accepted that you have no idea about religion or about Quran. But do you have to display your ignorance on every occasion? If Allah had prevented the birth of homosexuals, how would we know that it is haraam and a big sin? Besides, there are other big sins like murder, rape, oppression etc. If Allah allowed them to be born, then why not homosexuals as well? Idol worship is also a big sin, but they are born too aren't they? If sinners weren't allowed to be born, then why would we need a Quran to show us (all are sinners big or small) the straight path?

Murderers, rapists and oppressors have a choice, They are not born murderers. Similarly idol worshipers have a choice, Here we assume that homosexuals(in depressed case) are natural and have no choice..

[anajmi]

You can assume whatever you like. The Quran doesn't distinguish between those born homosexuals and those choosing to become homosexuals. We can assume that the people of Lut (as) were also born homosexuals because unless you have something wrong with your brain, who would choose to become a homosexual?

[anajmi]

well, if you are dumb, you wouldn't even know if you are or not.

[JC]

Anajmi,

a. I need not look at MN or anybody else to 'approve' of any of my deeds, I take the full responsibility for what I am and I decide to do or not to do.
b. It is totally unfair to compare homosexuals to murderers and rapists and thiefs. There is NO comparison. Homosexuals neither commit sin nor bring any harm to any one else (may it be a living being or property). Those criminals should be punished for their acts and deeds as they cause some kind of pain to others, not gays!
c. You have no authority to tell me I cannot be a Gay Muslim, I am and I will stay that way, this is something very PERSONAL to me and it should stay that way. Honestly I am dreaming for a day when there will be NO lebals on individuals, may it be Religious, National, by Colour or by Orientation.
d. And even you cannot compare gays to Idol Worshippers or Grave Worshippers or Human Worshippers, they do the 'SHIRK', not us. We believe in God and very much believe we are being created by God the way we are, and it is our faith that we are LOVED by GOD like He loves His entire creation. Do not try to paint God as a Head Master.

[anajmi]

It is totally unfair to compare homosexuals to murderers and rapists and thiefs.

I am not comparing a homosexual to a murderer, rapist or a thief. I would rather invite a homosexual to my house than the other three cause I am one of the ugliest men you will see.

You have no authority to tell me I cannot be a Gay Muslim

Correct. The only authority for a muslim should be Allah, His Quran and His Prophet (saw). What do they say about being a Gay Muslim?

And even you cannot compare gays to Idol Worshippers or Grave Worshippers or Human Worshippers, they do the 'SHIRK', not us.

Actually, you can. You have decided to put your urges before God. I would leave it up to you to figure out if that is shirk or not.

[JC]

Bro Anajmi,

So at least you do not compare homos to rapists and murderers ....... good, thanks.

As to our 'urges' and putting them before God - what would you say when straight people want to make love and have sex with partners of opposite sex, are they putting their 'urges' before God?? If not, then we are also not. You have the urge to eat chicken, I have an urge to eat Dal-Chawal ........... both are equally good or both are equally bad. This comes naturally to us ........ (Please do not compare 'eating' example with urges to eat 'haram' because there one has choice, we DO NOT have choices).

And what about Quran and its interpretations. It is claimed that Quran is good till Qayamat, correct? Do you know when is Qayamat, NO, it can be tomorrow or 1000 years from now ....... did people understand and interprete Quran 1000 years back as they are doing today? I do not think so. So what are the chances there are things in Quran which are not for today? They are for future, our interpretations are inaccurate or may be incorrect. No scholar can claim we have successfully interpreted Quran 100%.