Dawoodi Bohra Forum

Assalam Alaykum
Bismillah Hirrahma Nirrahim

I am humbly requesting all the members/visitors of this Forum to please refer to my post of a few days ago entitled "The Way Forward" and read this new post as an extension of that post

We have always believed and accepted that the Dai is infallible/masoom but recent un-Islamic and disgusting events and the succession struggle/crisis in the Dawa't proves beyond any doubt that the Dai is NOT infallible and also has created doubts about the Dai's claims in relation to Imam-uz-Zaman, as well as the belief system in the Imams, after Imam Tayyib - If the claimants to the position of Dai, were indeed guided/inspired by Imam-uz-Zaman, then the Community would not be in such a mess/crisis

Also, in the last 100 years, we have seen that the Dai is just as human as anybody else but due to spiritual qualities is the spiritual leader - The great spiritual leaders of the past have inspired and motivated people to become better believers and better human beings - However, the recent un-Islamic behavior and attitude (lanats, excommunication etc) of the leaders and followers of one of the factions is a great insult to the culture, heritage and intelligence of Bohras - The fundamental issue here is that of leadership, what kind of leadership allows such horrible things to happen? and the conclusion is that such leaders have NO LEADERSHIP to offer and are insensitive to the feelings of the other faction and also to the feelings of the Progressive Movement and totally incapable of understanding that we co-exist in a world that values and upholds democratic principles/ideals and cherish the concept of Transparency & Accountability and Good Governance - Our leadership has succeeded in isolating us from other Communities and Faiths and through indoctrination, intimidation and misguided beliefs, have further succeeded in enslaving and maintaining its stranglehold on the Community

Regarding Misaq - The Misaq system is archaic, it is used as a tool of coercion rather than an act of allegiance/faith - In modern times, I have never heard of any other Community that is required to swear allegiance to it's religious/secular leaders - On the contrary, it is the LEADERS who are required to swear allegiance to the Constitution/People and to all the rules/regulations of that Office - So, how come Bohras are required to give Misaq (an oath of allegiance) to the Dai and NOT THE OTHER WAY ROUND? - Actually, if you think seriously, it is this business of Misaq that is the root cause of all the problems and mess in our Community - It is this Misaq, that is the beginning of our slavery and misery - Because you have said "Naam", you have bound yourself to anything and everything that the Dawa't hierarchy asks/demands of you NOW and FOREVER - You SURRENDER your SOUL and WILL to the Dai (JAAN & MAAL), as well as your personal liberty - In effect, you do not exist as a person but become a robot, to be manipulated at will - And if at some point you do not like to be pushed around or find the rules/regulations/demands/indoctrination/belief system unacceptable, you will have no one to blame and no cause to complain, because you said "Naam" - So, in future, you must think very seriously before you say "Naam"

Now in view of what I have said about Misaq and if you are agreeable, I want to propose that henceforth, before a Dai assumes Office, he MUST take an Oath of Allegiance, while holding the Quran in his hand, to uphold/protect the FatemiDawat/DawoodiBohra Constitution (a new Constitution has to be drawn up by Eminent Jurists & Scholars, with input by the Community) and to serve the Community, according to Rasulullah's (saw) Sharia't, faithfully and justly, without fear or favor and to abide by all the rules & regulations (list to be prepared) of the Community and of the Office of Dai, so help me God - This is radical thinking and for many even blasphemous but it is a REALITY of our time and it is our RIGHT to say so - So, if a Dai wants my support and my MONEY, then I want my voice to be heard and the Dai must DECLARE PUBLICLY that "no one should do SAJDA to him" & "he will take an oath of allegiance" (as prescribed above) & "his Dawa't wii be Transparent & Accountable and will allow free and fair elections in Jamaats" & "all assets of the Community will revert back to the various Jamaats"

SMS has proved himself to be unworthy of the Office of Dai and has disqualified himself because of allowing his honor to be used in a disgraceful manner

"FMHASSANALI" in his post "Time For Major Change" said that "or else we go our own way", meaning in the absence of REFORMS, we must BREAKAWAY from the present system and form "Social Groups" to provide a platform for various social/religious/spiritual activities - And in furthering this initiative, I want to request Admin. if they can ask all members/visitors of this Forum to write their country on their posts/comments or alternatively, all members/visitors, themselves write their country on their post/comments, so that Progressives/Reformists from the same country can connect/communicate with each other and plan the formation of Social Groups in their cities - If we work together, support each other, inspire/motivate each other and share ideas, we will succeed in taking control of our religious/spiritual life and live life as a free and happy people, still enjoying our culture and traditions

It takes resolve and courage to BREAKAWAY from a Community System that we have been a part of all our lives but in the absence of any hope of REFORMS, we have no choice but to BREAKAWAY and BREAKAWAY we MUST for the good of our own SOULS and for future generations - One of the ways I have found spiritual upliftment/satisfaction is to go to a nearby park/garden and lay out my prayer mat, under Allah's big blue sky and pray and it is such an exhilarating and fantastic experience/feeling - Try it and you will not need any Bohra platform to practice your Faith and suggest we form our Social Groups in the parks /gardens and its FREE

If you really seek, under Allah's big blue sky and in His Nature, you will find that there is JANNAT here on Earth, under your Mother's feet and in GOOD DEEDS and in being GOOD HUMAN BEINGS and so let us find our rightful space under Allah's big blue sky and enjoy our faith/spirituality/culture /traditions, in peace and harmony and free of indoctrination, intimidation and exploitation

Here are some books that you might like to read:
"Nahjul Balagha" of Maulana Ali (AS)
"A Treasury Of Virtues" of Maulana Ali (AS)
"Kitab al-Irshad" - The book of guidance by Shaykh al-Mufid - it is about the life of Maulana Ali (AS) & some of the Imams

Maulana Ali (AS) said that "There Is No Honor More Exalted Than Islam" & "There Can Be No Love Where There Is Hypocrisy" & "There Is No Illness More Chronic Than Ignorance"

Either Assadullah Ghalib or Allahma Iqbal said that "Duniya Sabse Badi Kitaab Hein Aur Zamana Sabse Bada Ustad Hein"

May The Best Be Next
Expect The Unexpected
YOU Must Be the CHANGE That YOU Wish To See In Your Jamaat & Dawa't
Aluta Continua

Salams & Best Wishes from USA
Iltimas-ud-Dua

bohra clergy exploits people on basis of GREED and FEAR.

they install fear in hearts of people and then make them do things they want by showing greed of jannah.

See and reflect

M Taha wrote:bohra clergy exploits people on basis of GREED and FEAR.

they install fear in hearts of people and then make them do things they want by showing greed of jannah.

Fear and guilt to fulfil their greed

AliZahra aap kay naam say pata nahi chal rah kay aap mard hain, ya aurat? Zara clarify kar dejeyee. Shukriya.

This 'Succession Drama' is inheritingly wrong .......... their will be counter claims and various claimants.

These Kotharis SELL things (Janat, Sawab, Barakat, taking you to 'Qudus Na Kanthay') for crores of rupees (dollars, pounds etc) and the funny thing is that they even DO NOT have these things to start with ..... Abdes are BUYING just 'fake promises' from a person who has no idea of his 'products' himself ..........

Janat KHAREEDLO, Sawab KHAREEDLO, Barakat KHAREEDLO .........

sochta hoon kaise tumhe samjha doon, bazaar ka osool, jo bikta hai kharedar nahi hota.
here are some verses from Kaife Azmi that may want you to think;
get up my love you have to walk with me
life is in strugglenot in the restraint of patience
the blood of pulsating life is not in the trembling tears
fragrance lies in free flight not in the tresses of hair
there is another paradise which is not by the side of men
on its free pathways tooyou have yet to piroutte
for you, burning pyres wait at every corner
death disguised as duty
your every delicate gesture a curse
nothing but poison in the breeze
change the season if you wish to flourish
get up my love you have to walk with me
history has not known your worth thus far
you have burning embers too not merely tears
you are reality too,not a mere amusing anecdote
your personality is something too,not just your youth
you have to change the tittle of your history
get up my love you have to walk with me
emerge out of ancient bondage,break the idols of tradition
the weakness of pleasure,this mirage of fgagility
these self drawn boundaries of imagined greatness
the bondage of love this too is bondage
not merely the thorns on the path, you have to trample on flowers too
shatter these resolves,breaking suspicions of sermons
these vows that have become shackles, this too
this necklace of emeralds,these standards set by wise men
yes raise fast, raise your forehead from the feet of fate
how long will you falter, you have to be firm

[quote="AliZahra"]Assalam Alaykum - Bismilla-hi-Al-Rahmaan-i-Raheem
Regarding Misaq: The Misaq system is archaic, it is used as a tool of coercion rather than an act of allegiance/faith. In modern times, I have never heard of any other Community that is required to swear allegiance to its religious/secular leaders.
Ali Zahra, Bohras are not alone in the system of Misaq. Parsis, Christians, Ismailis & Brahmin's 'Janoy' - are some of the community who undergo misaq type of ceremonies. Christians have 'holy communion; Ismaili Khojas have a secret oath to serve and worship their Living Imam, Karim Aga Khan and they pray facing his photograph. Parsis initiation involves a ritual bath, a cleansing prayer; the child wears white pajamas, a shawl, and a small cap. Following introductory prayers, the child receives the sacred items that are associated with Zoroastrianism: a sacred shirt and cord, sudre, and kusti. The child then faces the main priest and fire is brought in to represent God. Once the priest finishes with the prayers, the child’s initiation is finished and he or she is now a part of the community and religion.

Salam Starwars - Shukran for the enlightenment, much appreciated but as you can see the Dawoodi Bohra Misaq is extreme in it's bindings and makes it archaic especially when the Dai's infallibility has been challenged and the Dai's connection to the Imam in seclusion has become suspect

In response to Khuzaima’s Press Release

Khuzaima and his followers have repeatedly tried to stake their claim on the moral high ground. The latest development in their smear campaign has seen them directly accuse Syedna Mufaddal SaifuddinTUS of “the basest form of defamation and slander”, whilst they have claimed to be courteous and civil.

How dare they claim to be respectful when they have done nothing but hurl accusations and insults at Moulana through their website, YouTube videos and press releases? Khuzaima has openly prayed la’nat on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin in his videotaped speech going so far as to mention that ‘he will burn in hell’!

In the face of such abuse, has anyone heard Moula utter a single word which is derogatory, abusive or insulting? Has Dawat e Hadiyah issued a single press release slandering him? In fact Vazarat instructed Mumineen, who have been shocked and distressed to learn of his actions, to reign in their emotions and remain in silent prayer!

Khuzaima has lacked even the most basic of human traits and has not let Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin or his family, let alone Mumineen, to mourn in peace. The sheer audacity to make a claim, issue statements in an attempt to secure Dawat’s properties and the activation of a website, all the while when Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin has yet to be buried is beyond comprehension. No matter how spiteful or malevolent, there is no human being, who would not let an orphan and his family be to grieve in peace. He is not fit to even take Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin’s name. He does not deserve to.

Despite the grave nature of the issues at hand and the very personal attacks on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin’s integrity and character, Moula has responded in the most genteel of ways, offering his hand for reconciliation. Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS has remained silent, immersed in preserving the memory of father, visiting his tomb everyday and praying for Mumineen and their well-being. This was his only concern and only priority – it was not to “engage in a debate” with a delusional claimant who sought to tarnish the memory of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin.

Out of reverence for Imam ul Zaman, he conducted waaz mubarak majlis on the occasion of Imam ul Zaman’s Milad last Tuesday, just as Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin did in 1994, when Busaheba, his companion of 60 years passed away yet he held khushi ni majlis and did waaz on the Milad of Rasulullah. This was his first public address since 16th Rabi ul Awal. It was filled with tears and sorrow, as he relived the countless blessings of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin and the heartbreaking events of that fateful Friday. There was no hate-filled torrent of abuse, no call to arms, no rousing speech to retaliate. Instead, born out of the noble upbringing of his father, he displayed a love and affection so profound that even the most hardened souls were softened. He called his uncle to return, referring to him as ‘aap’, recognising the esteemed position he had held for fifty years at the side of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin and said he would embrace him the moment he returned. Where was the “slander”? Where was the “insult”? Where was the “la’nat”? Where was the “defamation”? There can be no comparison, no single parallel with the magnanimity of this Moula.

In spite of such generosity, such immense humanity, Khuzaima, blinded by his delusional claims, ‘outrightly rejected’ this gesture of kindness by a harshly-worded press release. Khuzaima says that it was Shahzada Qaidjoher bhaisaheb who ‘rescinded’ a request for an appointment; nothing could be further from the truth. Any and all requests to meet were rejected by Khuzaima up front.

Even if he had decided to reject Moula’s gesture, why resort to public venting? Moula did not extend his offer through the media, but rather in the private setting of a majlis of Mumineen. He could have discretely sent his rejection. He chose to issue a press release precisely with the intention to blame and shame, to slander and humiliate – not that he ever could. It is he who is guilty of all the allegations he’s made against Moula. It is his actions, his caustic press releases which aims “to destroy the legacy” of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin.

It has been the tradition that when a Dai passes, a majlis is convened for forty consecutive days from the day of his passing. Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin has diligently, along with thousands of Mumineen, been presiding over these majalis on a daily basis. How can Khuzaima or his ilk claim to know what is said during these congregations? Is he there when thousands gather to catch a glimpse of their Moula as he gives salaami like his Moula before him over the bridge? Is he there when Moula kneels before the qabr mubaraks of both Moulas, head bowed in piety? Is he there to lay the wreaths of flowers on the qabr mubarak? Is he there to pray Quran along with the thousands who have gathered? Is he there in Syedna Taher Saifuddin’s masjid to hear Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin grieve on his father and the father of a million, as he expounds the virtues of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin? Is he there when the masjid and all who have congregated engage in matam and shed tears on Imam Hussain? Is he there when members of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin’s family recount personal experiences of his affection? Is he there when mumineen stand in unison behind Moula to offer their namaaz?

No. He relinquished that privilege the moment he walked out on Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin. Yet he has the insolence to claim that these daily commemorations have “degenerated into hate-sessions” without having attended a single one! It is he who is filled with hate and burning envy which fuel his insanity.

He has again and again berated and belittled Mumineen as illiterate, overcharged zealots whilst he and his like have claimed to be courteous and civil. Let not appearances and false pretences draw away from the gravity of what they have done.

Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA meant the world to mumineen. His passing away has rocked Mumineen to their core. His Mansoos, Syedna Mufaddal SaifuddinTUS holds equal status in the hearts of all his devoted followers. When Moula’s RA ghusl has still not been undertaken, his body still unburied, Khuzaima initiated his vendetta against Syedna Mufaddal SaifuddinTUS. At such a time when Mumineen are engulfed in their grief at the loss of a Moula who was their meaning in life, Khuzaima cannot expect any other reaction from mumineen. Mumineen have been left flabbergasted and shocked by his actions.

From mumineen’s perspective they have attacked Haq na Saheb, slandered him and falsely accussed him with a whole series of spurious claims. This is considered heresy and a sin akin to murder. It is a direct offensive on the core tenets of our faith and a direct act of aggression on hundreds of thousands of mumineen.

Hence, mumineen are compelled by their own faith and mohabbat for Moula to voice in the strongest possible terms, their disdain and contempt at the actions of Khuzaima. If they voice ‘la’nat’ then it is nothing but a spontaneous reaction to what he has done, not because they have been told to do so but because it is a byproduct of their faith. There are no conspiracy or orchestrated “hate-sessions” which are encouraging Mumineen to attribute la’nat to Khuzaima. Such ideas just stem from Khuzaima’s band of conspiracy theorists.

The definition of la’nat and its derivative, ‘mal’oon’, is one who is distanced from ‘rehmat’. As Syedna Ali bin Mohammed bin WaleedRA states, it is the Dai Mutlaq who is the ‘rehmat of Al Rahman’. Khuzaima left Syedna Mohammed BurhanuddinRA at Saifee Mahal of his own accord. No one forced him. He distanced himself from both Moulas and hence if Mumineen are proclaiming la’nat on him, they are just stating the obvious truth. Haq is truth whose embodiment is the Dai and as followers of Haq, they are merely voicing the facts.

He claims that Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin and his family “took advantage of a severe debilitating stroke”, yet not once did he pay a visit to Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin after his stroke or enquire in any way as to his health. He is no position at all to comment on the causes, effects and degree of the stroke. He claims that a “unilateral and untenable” claim was made by Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin. Yes, it was unilateral – it was the sole, unilateral decision and decree of the 52nd Dai Mutlaq on instruction from Imam ul Zaman on five carefully documented, recorded, witnessed and attested occasions, proof of which is there for anyone who sincerely wishes to know the truth.

If Khuzaima genuinely felt anything for the children of Dawat, he would not have acted in this way or issue press releases. It is his actions that attempt to “tear away at the very fabric of our faith” – not Moula’s.


A well drafted answer,
And khuda ni lanat on all enemie of dai,dawat and islam in general

Someone please take maxthemature for a stroll in nearby garden

Masha Allah, Masha Alllah think, aapne ye mehfile-usool ki shaan badaa di
Kaife Azmi saab ki shairi ne hamare dil ko zabardast sukoon diya
"Ye gamey zindagi kooch tau dey mashwara......................."
Best wishes

Salam Mazakyo - Wesey tau aap ke naam sey bhi patan nahin chalta - Mujhey koi harj nahin hein bataney mein, lekin aap ko thodi masti mazak mein zuroor shamil karunga, ok:) - Merey yaar, merey habib, fark kya padta hein, wesey, her zamaney mein, dono ki shaan nirali hein aur duniya ke halat mein mard aur aurat ki shaan bhi nirali hein - Allah Miya ne eik kau mitti say banaya aur dusre kau mard (Nabi Saab) ki haddi se banaya, lekin aurat ki shan bahot zyada nirali hein, kyun ke mard aurat ke bageir nahin ji sakta aur jhese Gandhiji ne kaha "Man can never be a woman's equal in the spirit of selfless service with which nature has endowed her" - Maaf karna, aap ne eik chota sa swal poocha aur mein lumbi "takrir" karne lag gaya

Shuru mein, hamne jub ye Forum mein kadam rakha, abhi abhi kooch dino pehle, tau hamara naam "FatemiDawat53" tha lekin "Ozdundee" bhai ne ek dum jaldi se badal diya (please read my post "The Way Forward" to know why that happened) aur bola koi naya nam pesh karo, tau phir hamne ye nam "AliZahra" pesh kiya

Yaar ye Forum mein bahot maza aa raha hein, hasin bhi aati hein aur rona bhi aata hein, kya karoo ye logo ne bada fasa diya hein:), yaar ye konsi musibat mein fasa diya hein, na "ghar ka na ghat ka", "na ees par na uspar", "soodi wacche sopari", hai hai pata nahin kya hashar honey wala hein, lekin hamein koi fikar nahi hein, apne ko Allah Miyan mein bada yakin hein, Insha Allah, zuroor koi achhi si tarkeeb aur rasta nikale ga, bahot chein ki nind aati hein, een logo kau ladne dau, ees mein hamsub ka bada faida hein, kyun ke hum tau chale eik lambi safar pe, aur wapsi ki koi ummid nahi hein, jahan ja rahan hoon waha aish hee aish hein, na koi hangama, na koi shor sharaba, sirf sukoon hee sukoon aur jo koi mere saath aana chahta hein tau "Safina" bana rahan hu, taayar honey pe sabko forun ittila kardunga, Insha Allah - Aapne shaid saucha ke hum Pakistani hein, bilkul nahin, ek dum Gujrati number one

Yaar, kisi din milkar chai pitey hein aur phir mardowali (mard/aurat) ki baat karenge, Insha Allah
Allah Hafiz - Fee AmanAllah

AliZahra wrote:Salam Mazakyo - Wesey tau aap ke naam sey bhi patan nahin chalta - Mujhey koi harj nahin hein bataney mein, lekin aap ko thodi masti mazak mein zuroor shamil karunga, ok:) - Merey yaar, merey habib, fark kya padta hein, wesey, her zamaney mein, dono ki shaan nirali hein aur duniya ke halat mein mard aur aurat ki shaan bhi nirali hein - Allah Miya ne eik kau mitti say banaya aur dusre kau mard (Nabi Saab) ki haddi se banaya, lekin aurat ki shan bahot zyada nirali hein, kyun ke mard aurat ke bageir nahin ji sakta aur jhese Gandhiji ne kaha "Man can never be a woman's equal in the spirit of selfless service with which nature has endowed her" - Maaf karna, aap ne eik chota sa swal poocha aur mein lumbi "takrir" karne lag gaya

Shuru mein, hamne jub ye Forum mein kadam rakha, abhi abhi kooch dino pehle, tau hamara naam "FatemiDawat53" tha lekin "Ozdundee" bhai ne ek dum jaldi se badal diya (please read my post "The Way Forward" to know why that happened) aur bola koi naya nam pesh karo, tau phir hamne ye nam "AliZahra" pesh kiya

Yaar ye Forum mein bahot maza aa raha hein, hasin bhi aati hein aur rona bhi aata hein, kya karoo ye logo ne bada fasa diya hein:), yaar ye konsi musibat mein fasa diya hein, na "ghar ka na ghat ka", "na ees par na uspar", "soodi wacche sopari", hai hai pata nahin kya hashar honey wala hein, lekin hamein koi fikar nahi hein, apne ko Allah Miyan mein bada yakin hein, Insha Allah, zuroor koi achhi si tarkeeb aur rasta nikale ga, bahot chein ki nind aati hein, een logo kau ladne dau, ees mein hamsub ka bada faida hein, kyun ke hum tau chale eik lambi safar pe, aur wapsi ki koi ummid nahi hein, jahan ja rahan hoon waha aish hee aish hein, na koi hangama, na koi shor sharaba, sirf sukoon hee sukoon aur jo koi mere saath aana chahta hein tau "Safina" bana rahan hu, taayar honey pe sabko forun ittila kardunga, Insha Allah - Aapne shaid saucha ke hum Pakistani hein, bilkul nahin, ek dum Gujrati number one

Yaar, kisi din milkar chai pitey hein aur phir mardowali (mard/aurat) ki baat karenge, Insha Allah
Allah Hafiz - Fee AmanAllah

Boss aap tu serious ho gaye. Jins (sex) is leye maloom karn tha kay aap ko Bhai keh kar ya Behen keh kar mukhatib karein. Bus itni si baat thi. Dil halka kar lein aap, baat dil pay na lein. Aur ham bhala aap ko Pakistani kyun samajhney lagey. Urdu to hindustan mein bhi boli jaati hai.

Arey Mazakyo Bhaiyya, mein tau sirf thodi si hasi mazak kur rahata
And now to answer your question, I belong to the male category, matter settled:)

Starwars wrote:

AliZahra wrote:Assalam Alaykum - Bismilla-hi-Al-Rahmaan-i-Raheem
Regarding Misaq: The Misaq system is archaic, it is used as a tool of coercion rather than an act of allegiance/faith. In modern times, I have never heard of any other Community that is required to swear allegiance to its religious/secular leaders.
Ali Zahra, Bohras are not alone in the system of Misaq. Parsis, Christians, Ismailis & Brahmin's 'Janoy' - are some of the community who undergo misaq type of ceremonies. Christians have 'holy communion; Ismaili Khojas have a secret oath to serve and worship their Living Imam, Karim Aga Khan and they pray facing his photograph. Parsis initiation involves a ritual bath, a cleansing prayer; the child wears white pajamas, a shawl, and a small cap. Following introductory prayers, the child receives the sacred items that are associated with Zoroastrianism: a sacred shirt and cord, sudre, and kusti. The child then faces the main priest and fire is brought in to represent God. Once the priest finishes with the prayers, the child’s initiation is finished and he or she is now a part of the community and religion.

yes this very true.