Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
zinger
Posts: 2148
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3241

Unread post by zinger » Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:17 am

yfm wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:41 pm :mrgreen: Now I have Zinger stirred up! Ha Ha Ha.

If every one of us "feel good", it surely is not here.

The only one who feel good are the ones who have the time to enjoy this circus.

Those, who we want to "feel good" are those who have been deprived of a chance to make better lives for themselves here on earth.

Those whose lives are already better here and are bickering about who the freaking dai should be, and whether the Kothar are charging them a lot of money, may rot in the gutters in the heaven above whom these dais will take them to.

So Mr. Zinger, you are well off and yet are not in peace within, and your pieces is what makes you feel arrogant.

But wait and see! Your pieces are going to get worse because no Dai will make them "feel good." here on earth or underneath the earth.

Ha Ha Ha.

Well then, thank God that while i follow a Dai, i dont depend on him to make me feel good. i depend on Allah and on His power to make me feel good.

So guess the joke is on you my friend

BTW, i forgot to add one more thing to feel good.. apparently, good pot makes you feel good too, which, going by your rambles, seems to be exactly what you are smoking

so, peace my friend. enjoy your pot, continue to feel good.

good day

Biradar
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3242

Unread post by Biradar » Thu Nov 11, 2021 1:56 pm

A modified and extended version of my post on another thread. Relevant to the court case:

In his latest weekly lecture, STF discusses the issue of the faction of the Sulaymanis. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viiYHjWyRDA. As usual, at the end he connects it to the present conditions, in which he says that it is not surprising that the sons and family of the da'i turned from the "dawaat al-haq". However, beside saying that "this can happen and has happened" he really does not give any reason why we should actually consider his father's (i.e SKQ) claim to be the correct one. After all, SKQ was also the son of the da'i and one could say that in fact SKQ was behaving like Sulayman and not Muffy. Both situations are symmetrical and the same accusation that STF makes against Muffy can be made against STF's father.

For those who may not know. Sulayman bin Hassan bin Yusuf bin Sulayman was the grandson of the first Indian da’i S. Yusuf b. Sulayman. He was also appointed as a deputy in Yemen by S. Dawood b. ‘Ajabshah, the twenty-sixth da’i. Sulayman at first did not contest the position of the da’i S. Dawood b. Qutubshah. However, a few years later he claimed that he himself was the successor and was appointed to the position of da’i al-mutlaq by S. Dawood b. ‘Ajab. He returned to India to establish his claim. However, an important thing was that vast majority of the people had already accepted S. Dawood b. Qutubshah and hence Sulayman did not obtain any followers or success. However, some Yemeni tribes accepted him claim and since then the split was permanent and on ethnic grounds: the Sulaymani dawaat is mostly made up of Arabic speaking Yemenis, mostly from a single tribe. Strangely, Sulayman appointed his son Jafar as his successor, however he (Sulayman, i.e) died when Jafar was still a young child. During the period of Jafar’s minority Safi al-din al-Makrami was appointed as mustawda (acting) da’i. Now, for centuries, the position of the da’i has (with rare exception) remained in the al-Makrami family.

Now, in this court case and schism the situation is very similar: majority of people have accepted Muffy as the da’i al-mutlaq. Nothing will change their minds. Further, one can ask: why did not SKQ confront his nephews while SMB was alive? Was his silence not a tacit acceptance and the same thing that Sulayman did for the few years? Now, I personally think SKQ may have felt that there would be chaos and perhaps danger to his life. However, he had 48 years to convince his brother to make his designation explicit. This was SKQ’s tactic and perhaps greatest weakness. I believe his personality was such that he did not want to make an open confrontation. However, we know the SMB was a megalomaniac and there was nothing preventing him from making an open announcement. Nobody could have stopped him. So why did SMB wait and did not appoint anyone openly? I personally believe that nass was performed right at the start in secret. But why keep it secret for so many decades, when no real danger existed from outside forces? Perhaps SMB really did change his mind in the end, and as I said, his megalomania and feelings of godhood meant he perhaps did not care about past precedent or promises he had made to his father. (This much also I am sure of: STS had instructed SMB to appoint SKQ as the 53rd da’i al-mutlaq).

Also, what happens if STF loses this case? Will he accept that his father was not a real da’i and go become servant of Muffy? Of course not! Maybe he will lose half of the few followers he has, and like many schismatic movements in the past, his dawaat will go extinct.

So what purpose does this case serve now? The answer is simple: to attempt to (re)exert control over the followers and obtain wealth and power. This answers the question raised by the FD bhakt on how one knows STF wants to control his followers. It is simple: the initial claim filed by SKQ was to stay the successorship of Muffy so he could control the properties. This was explicitly stated in the stay plea. As all the SXX know that one who controls the properties and wealth controls the sheep-like Bohra followers. That tactic failed and then SKQ filed his “declaratory suit”. Of course, given the history of STS, SMB and SKQ’s silent acceptance of the atrocities during the era of SMB, there is no reason to believe that STF or any SXX’s fundamental desire will not be to control his followers once he obtains power and wealth he craves. One who does not learn from history is a fool. But as a wise one said: “Bewakoofo qi qami nahi Galib, ek dhundo to hazar miljaye ge”.

Incidentally, it is not uncommon for court cases to drag on for years, even decades in Indian courts. The whole system is a farce. As such, perhaps even Muffy will not survive this case and maybe our grandchildren will be waiting for the outcome! Maybe qiyamaat will come before this case is resolved. Allah knows!

yfm
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3243

Unread post by yfm » Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:48 pm

So Singer bhai, you use POT to feel good? :lol:

yfm
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3244

Unread post by yfm » Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:29 am

In his latest weekly lecture, STF discusses the issue of the faction of the Sulaymanis. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viiYHjWyRDA. As usual, at the end he connects it to the present conditions, in which he says that it is not surprising that the sons and family of the da'i turned from the "dawaat al-haq". However, beside saying that "this can happen and has happened" he really does not give any reason why we should actually consider his father's (i.e SKQ) claim to be the correct one. After all, SKQ was also the son of the da'i and one could say that in fact SKQ was behaving like Sulayman and not Muffy. Both situations are symmetrical and the same accusation that STF makes against Muffy can be made against STF's father.

I believe you have misinterpreted STF. STF does contend that his father was appointed by Seyedna Burhanuddin and cites quotations from Seydna Burhanuddin where he was bestowed with "Nass". However, there is no proof except that the Mazoon does not lie. I believe that SKK did not lie and believed that the nass was given to him. And he provides circumstantial evidence where the MS regime where they enforce boycotts and deny believing mumineens the benefits of being human such as denying them the right to a burial ceremony. All these shows the atrocities that SMS regime is committing speaks for it self that SMS is not behaving as a spiritual leader but a tyrant and therefore Seyedna Burhanuddin and the Imam's ilham can not be wrong.

It is the circumstantial evidence that invokes emotions of who is righteous and who is money monger. If there was no compulsion in this dawat and we were to choose out of our own free will, I believe most of the bohras would veer towards STF.

But none the less, my own observations are that the dais do not change our lives for the better both in the context of duniya or akheerat, and therefore even though I believe SKQ is the right dai, what does it matter?

yfm
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3245

Unread post by yfm » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:13 pm

Forgot to add, that Seyedna Burhanuddin was an able leader and therefore we are sure he must have made the nass clear somewhere or with some some people. What STF is implying by analogy to Sulaymanis is that people who had been entrusted with the knowledge of the "NASS", were bought off, and that is why there is no evidence. This whole farce is nothing to do with Seyedna Burhanuddin not making sure that the "NASS" was not recognized. It has to do with the corrupt Dai and the Dawat that governs us. Are we sure that these people in power are the righteous ones?

"That tactic failed and then SKQ filed his “declaratory suit”. Of course, given the history of STS, SMB and SKQ’s silent acceptance of the atrocities during the era of SMB, there is no reason to believe that STF or any SXX’s fundamental desire will not be to control his followers once he obtains power and wealth he craves. One who does not learn from history is a fool. But as a wise one said: “Bewakoofo qi qami nahi Galib, ek dhundo to hazar miljaye ge”."

In his latest weekly lecture, STF discusses the issue of the faction of the Sulaymanis. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viiYHjWyRDA. As usual, at the end he connects it to the present conditions, in which he says that it is not surprising that the sons and family of the da'i turned from the "dawaat al-haq". However, beside saying that "this can happen and has happened" he really does not give any reason why we should actually consider his father's (i.e SKQ) claim to be the correct one. After all, SKQ was also the son of the da'i and one could say that in fact SKQ was behaving like Sulayman and not Muffy. Both situations are symmetrical and the same accusation that STF makes against Muffy can be made against STF's father. As Bhai Biradar rightfully quotes

zinger
Posts: 2148
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3246

Unread post by zinger » Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:58 am

yfm wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:48 pm So Singer bhai, you use POT to feel good? :lol:
i rest my case :roll:

yfm
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3247

Unread post by yfm » Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:12 pm

Bhai SInger, After making such horrendous accusation against yfm and his use of the POT, please stand up and acknowledge that you were using POT when you made those accusations.

Don't hide behind your mummy's apron and write that you rest your case. That is disgusting and an embarrassment to the progressive Dawood forum.

zinger
Posts: 2148
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3248

Unread post by zinger » Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:04 am

yfm wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:12 pm Bhai SInger, After making such horrendous accusation against yfm and his use of the POT, please stand up and acknowledge that you were using POT when you made those accusations.

Don't hide behind your mummy's apron and write that you rest your case. That is disgusting and an embarrassment to the progressive Dawood forum.
Well then, Thank God im not a progressive Bohra. i prefer to call myself an eye-opened Bohra

BTW, i think you meant to post from your other ID in favour of YFM... this is what happens when you create multiple IDs to spam the forum with your trash

yfm
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3249

Unread post by yfm » Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:57 pm

:mrgreen: :twisted: :wink: Bhai Singer, If you are not a progressive bohra, then why are you lurching around here on this site. You continue to disgust me with your trespasses. But why do you care. You are shameless and therefore no matter what we write, you will always find it amusing.

zinger
Posts: 2148
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3250

Unread post by zinger » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:34 am

yfm wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:57 pm :mrgreen: :twisted: :wink: Bhai Singer, If you are not a progressive bohra, then why are you lurching around here on this site. You continue to disgust me with your trespasses. But why do you care. You are shameless and therefore no matter what we write, you will always find it amusing.
i think you need to
first - get your IDs correct. since ive already exposed you for what you are
second - sit with a dictionary, incase a thesaurus is too big for your litte mind, cause the word is lurking, not lurching
third - last i checked, its a free county. i can do pretty much what i please
fourth - i really dont give 2 hoots about the kind of feelings i stir in you
and finally since i already know the virus that you are, you can enjoy talking to yourself cause im finished with you.

yfm
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3251

Unread post by yfm » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:35 am

:D :) :mrgreen:

Mr. Singer, don't you think that I am interested in your singing. Have you heard of the saying "great minds and small minds".

I am just amusing myself with fellows like you when I am bored and have no pot to use.

Do you seriously think, I am interested in your mind, let alone your mouth.

QutbiBohra
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:46 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3252

Unread post by QutbiBohra » Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:46 am

What is the updates on current situation? Where all parties stands to? Any link we can get court updates about the case?

Sheikh Ali sadiq
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:44 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3253

Unread post by Sheikh Ali sadiq » Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:12 am

kyaa huaa bhai drama kaha tak pohcha

kon jeet raha hai

Advocates paisa kha gayee community ke

yfm
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3254

Unread post by yfm » Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:33 pm

Sheikh Ali sadiq

First you must remove the title Sheikh.

It is phony, it was bought in the market, it will do your soul no good.

Once you come in as a normal simple mumeneen, you may be given some respect.

:mrgreen: :wink: :twisted: :evil:


yfm
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3256

Unread post by yfm » Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:13 pm

Why are you continuing laughing?

yfm
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3257

Unread post by yfm » Mon Mar 07, 2022 1:04 am

Dawoodi Bohra Succession Suit in the Bombay High Court: Cross-examination of Defendant’s Witnesses

Cross examination of the Defendant's witnesses will continue on 7th to 9th March 2022.

Syedna Taher Fakhruddin TUS irshaad that Mumineen do “Hasbunallahu wa ne'mal wakeel” Tasbih (450 times), pray “Nasr-wal-Mahaba” & other doas, & take out Nazrul Maqam AS. May Allah Taala grant Syedna Fakhruddin TUS Nasr-e-Aziz & Fath-e-Mubeen.

Mkenya
Posts: 513
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:16 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3258

Unread post by Mkenya » Mon Mar 07, 2022 1:55 pm

Court case ma potana pag dagu dagu che ane STF ne wahi aawi ke tasbih, nasr-wal-mahaba, nazrul muqam, wagere pade to tena case ma safarta pamshe.

Shu STF na camp ma koi wakil nathi ke STF ne samjhawe ke court na case ma 'thosh' sabut ane kagazato pesh kare toj koi baat banshe.

Duao, dora dhagha, bagla jewa safed poshak pehri ne koi tabdili nahi aawe. SIWAI ke wakilo, chaprasi, ane BJP ne thappa 'araz' kare tej underkhane no rasto che. SBM and STF to awa khel ma to khub tirandaaz che.

Tamari andhruni ladai ma tamoe quom ne dhunwa-fuwa kari nakhi che.

Sheikh Ali sadiq
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:44 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3259

Unread post by Sheikh Ali sadiq » Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:46 am

the proof is necessary but DUA is also important, I want TF to win this case those bloody brainwashed Bohras will come to their senses, and finally, they won't believe in any more unicorns anymore and finally come back to fundamentals.

Taher will not have any followers even if he wins but yes Mufaddal will truly have a setback that will break this whole game.

InshAllah


alivasan
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 9:28 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3261

Unread post by alivasan » Tue May 17, 2022 11:40 pm

what happened on 10th May historic milestone ? cross examination of defendent side. There is no update on fatemi dawaat website..

Sheikh Ali sadiq
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:44 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3262

Unread post by Sheikh Ali sadiq » Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:26 am

may be deal done out side

ilhamafief94
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:40 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3263

Unread post by ilhamafief94 » Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:58 pm

Hello, I'm not Bohra. I want to ask, is it permissible in Bohra and Ismaili to pray "Yaa Ali" etc., to ask for intercession and goodness? Please explain in detail. Thanks.

Biradar
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3264

Unread post by Biradar » Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:19 pm

Seems that the final cross-examination of Muffy’s witness is now complete. Starting Nov 28th 2022 there will be final arguments from each party. See https://fatemidawatlegal.com/

One hopes these “final” arguments won’t go on for years! Perhaps end of this year we will have some resolution to this specific case. Though, as I said above, I am sure nothing will change in terms of specific claims made by either of the two. What seems likely is that the court will rule that the community properties should be shared equally amongst the two feuding cousins. Likely, even if FD people lose, they will at least win financially, as it is not likely that the court will prevent the FD people from using the community common facilities and properties, perhaps even get some compensation by sale of the Saify Mahal.

Incidentally, the initial plea by SKQ was interesting. Seems his very first plea was to make the court declare that he was the da’i by proper succession, and that Muffy should be refrained from using any title or make any indications that he was da’i instead. Next he wanted to be given all the properties and control of waqf. He also wanted Muffy from using any property and making claims on control of waqf properties. I will attempt to list his full plea here, but basically, the bottom line is that the plea, is worded such that if the first thing is not done (i.e. the court does not declare SKQ as the proper da’i) then no other plea can be granted. However, I do not know. Maybe the judge will choose to not take sides in the succession dispute, and will ask for arbitration as to the properties.

Though it is hard to predict what the court will do, it is not going to end the litigations. If Muffy loses, expect violence from his fanatics. They will chant deaths to all and sundry, specially the judge. I hope the judge has good security! If STF loses, well, I guess that will be the end of FD as we know it. Many people will consider that his loss was divine providence in favor of Muffy and will leave him. Some may stick to him, but the game will be over. As is, it seems that FD is just another family business, with the siblings wanting back their share of the spoils of the community that they enjoyed for decades, and all their life.

If I look at STF’s siblings, the only with even a modicum of intelligence is his older sister, Bazat Tahera. His so-called mazoon and specially his so-called mukasir are both somewhat dense and foolish. STF is not a bad guy, but he also stems from the wicked root watered by the insane megalomania of his uncle and the quiet acquiescence of his father. Of course, this is irrelevant to the case, but the damage to the Bohra system is so severe, that we can expect a slow heat-death of the community by attrition. Young people, specially in the West, hate the mullahs and want out. The Indian community is slowly declining in prosperity and is becoming smaller and impoverished. Though dadhis are getting longer and bellies fatter, there is no spirituality left in the system. So this seems the end of the Bohra system. Sensible people are leaving and mad fanatics have been left behind.

The Progressive movement has run its course and has zero impact in either the Muffy Daawat or FD.

Very little hope remains for the Bohri system. The mullahs will suck the remaining Bohras for all they are worth. As-is, Muffy is all about money, money, money. No such creature with such avarice or greed has appeared on the scene of the Bohra community. Even his dad was not this greedy. In a way, I think maybe this is all for the good. Perhaps this system was rotted for a long time, and it is better it collapses now.

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 721
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3265

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:27 am

Brother Biradar,

You say: "If I look at STF’s siblings, the only with even a modicum of intelligence is his older sister, Bazat Tahera. His so-called mazoon and specially his so-called mukasir are both somewhat dense and foolish. STF is not a bad guy, ..."

Would you care to explain how you have come to this conclusion about STF and his siblings? Personal one-on-one in-person interactions, listening to their bayaans, or, on what basis? And this strong judgement about his mukasir. Would be interested in knowing the thinking behind such observations.

I also agree that it is hard to predict what will happen, but one thing I will respectfully disagree with: That "If Muffy loses, expect violence from his fanatics. They will chant deaths to all and sundry, specially the judge. I hope the judge has good security! "

No chance there is any possibility of harm to the judge. He could walk alone in Behndi Bazar and nobody will touch him. A Bombay High Court Judge ...... and Bohra's causing him any harm. I don't think so. They may curse in "code words", but physical harm - I don't think so. Again, I could be wrong, but this is my thinking

Biradar
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3266

Unread post by Biradar » Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:55 am

dal-chaval-palidu wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:27 am Brother Biradar,

You say: "If I look at STF’s siblings, the only with even a modicum of intelligence is his older sister, Bazat Tahera. His so-called mazoon and specially his so-called mukasir are both somewhat dense and foolish. STF is not a bad guy, ..."

Would you care to explain how you have come to this conclusion about STF and his siblings? Personal one-on-one in-person interactions, listening to their bayaans, or, on what basis? And this strong judgement about his mukasir. Would be interested in knowing the thinking behind such observations.

I also agree that it is hard to predict what will happen, but one thing I will respectfully disagree with: That "If Muffy loses, expect violence from his fanatics. They will chant deaths to all and sundry, specially the judge. I hope the judge has good security! "

No chance there is any possibility of harm to the judge. He could walk alone in Behndi Bazar and nobody will touch him. A Bombay High Court Judge ...... and Bohra's causing him any harm. I don't think so. They may curse in "code words", but physical harm - I don't think so. Again, I could be wrong, but this is my thinking
Let me ask you the opposite question: why do you think any of the siblings, except perhaps Bazat Tahera, have any intellectual capabilities at all? These people have been born into a family of unbelievable privilege. And they lived a life of extreme luxury, going to expensive private schools all over the world. Yet, when I hear the so-called mukasir speak, he appears to have very low intellect and says very little of substance. Ditto is with the so-called mazoon. They are not in the same league as their older sister. This is simply an objective fact. You do not need to agree, and perhaps you do not.

I do not know your affiliation. Many are bamboozled by titles, wealth and birth into powerful families. Others may choose to evaluate differently. For example, the children of SMB are, to a uniform degree, morons. Just look at Muffy! His brothers are even stupider than him. Some are specially stupid, like Idris or Malek.

Now, I think STF is not bad in a certain sense I support the FD movement in the sense that it is better than Muffy’s dawaat. But that is not saying much. I have already written about this many, many times so no need to rehash.

Anyway, why do you care about my evaluation of him? Are you his keeper? Does it upset you that I, an ordinary person, criticized a rich and privilege person? Maybe you think that riches and privilege should protect one from criticism?

Fatema Yamani
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:59 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3267

Unread post by Fatema Yamani » Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:33 am

saify mahal is not needed any more by MS he is now planning to shift every thing to Europe walking on foot step of agha khanis

dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 721
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3268

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:47 am

Biradar wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:55 am
dal-chaval-palidu wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:27 am Brother Biradar,

You say: "If I look at STF’s siblings, the only with even a modicum of intelligence is his older sister, Bazat Tahera. His so-called mazoon and specially his so-called mukasir are both somewhat dense and foolish. STF is not a bad guy, ..."

Would you care to explain how you have come to this conclusion about STF and his siblings? Personal one-on-one in-person interactions, listening to their bayaans, or, on what basis? And this strong judgement about his mukasir. Would be interested in knowing the thinking behind such observations.

I also agree that it is hard to predict what will happen, but one thing I will respectfully disagree with: That "If Muffy loses, expect violence from his fanatics. They will chant deaths to all and sundry, specially the judge. I hope the judge has good security! "

No chance there is any possibility of harm to the judge. He could walk alone in Behndi Bazar and nobody will touch him. A Bombay High Court Judge ...... and Bohra's causing him any harm. I don't think so. They may curse in "code words", but physical harm - I don't think so. Again, I could be wrong, but this is my thinking
Let me ask you the opposite question: why do you think any of the siblings, except perhaps Bazat Tahera, have any intellectual capabilities at all?
>>>>> I don't know them extensively. And the answer to a question is not to turn the question back to the questioner. I respect her achievements, and those of the mazoom and mukasir in terms of academic work. I don't know much more.

These people have been born into a family of unbelievable privilege. And they lived a life of extreme luxury, going to expensive private schools all over the world.
>>>>> Agreed, no disagreement with you there.

Yet, when I hear the so-called mukasir speak, he appears to have very low intellect and says very little of substance. Ditto is with the so-called mazoon. They are not in the same league as their older sister. This is simply an objective fact. You do not need to agree, and perhaps you do not.
>>> okay, so that is all you need to say. That you are judging based on their bayaans.

I do not know your affiliation.
>>>> I believe that SKQ's claim very likely has validity. Hopefully we will get more info after this case concludes. But then I could be wrong.

Many are bamboozled by titles, wealth and birth into powerful families. Others may choose to evaluate differently. For example, the children of SMB are, to a uniform degree, morons. Just look at Muffy! His brothers are even stupider than him. Some are specially stupid, like Idris or Malek.

Now, I think STF is not bad in a certain sense I support the FD movement in the sense that it is better than Muffy’s dawaat. But that is not saying much. I have already written about this many, many times so no need to rehash.

Anyway, why do you care about my evaluation of him?
>>> You made a claim and I just was asking what you based your claim on.
Are you his keeper?
>>>> Certainly not.
Does it upset you that I, an ordinary person, criticized a rich and privilege person?
>>> Not at all.
Maybe you think that riches and privilege should protect one from criticism?
>>>>>>> No
My thoughts in-line, separated by >>>>>>>

Biradar
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3269

Unread post by Biradar » Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:24 am

D-C-P: I have evaluated the academic achievements of the SKQ kids. Obviously you do not know me, but I have a modicum of understanding of these matters. As to academics, only Tahera has anything of genuine substance to show. None of the younger bothers are that good, and, frankly, their output is very mediocre.

The field of Islamic studies is vast, of course, But Ismaili studies is not the most complicated thing in the world and these guys have access to the textual resources that few people have. Even then, their output is so-so and hardly much to boast about. You will notice that none of them (including Tahera) have tackled the genuinely difficult topic of trying to explain the complex philosophical system of the Ismaili/Tayebi taweel or haqaqiq. I do not think that they have the philosophical preparation to do so anyway. Of this I am certain. The training of these folks is very narrow. They learn this stuff in a devout way, without understanding the deeper connection to the larger Islamic world or the Greek systems it came from. Also, their religious position itself prevents them from doing it: they think the Ismaili system is unique and divine (it is not) and that if they study it in the way a true academic would study it they would be undermining their faith.

I know of many, many academics in the Islamic studies field who have made far greater contributions. None of them claims to be “mazoon” or “mukasir” and expects million-strong community to kiss their backsides and give them vast amounts of wealth!

In any case, Islamic studies is not rocket science. Literally! In the hierarchy of academic and human endeavors it is pretty low on the totem pole.

As to the succession case: do not hope to hear anything new after the case is decided. If there was anything that indicated that nass had occurred on SKQ, they would have immediately produced it. For example, say a letter from STS to SMB instructing him to do the nass on SKQ. We would know about it. Now, I think that nass did occur on SKQ. But there is no proof besides his word. There is no written document or other concrete evidence. The evening that SMB died. Don’t you think if there was a letter or any physical evidence SKQ would have produced it in the first bayaan he that night? The case was not even in the horizon yet and a simple letter from STS would have totally changed the game, specially if produced so early on.

What is a fact is that in the 50 years SMB never said a word in public about nass on anyone. There is no disputing this. Why not? I am not sure but it is possible he felt he had plenty of time and did not consider his own mortality. He was an insane megalomaniac and perhaps really did feel he would live forever. The first and most important duty of a da’i is to ensure clear succession. Bohra history is full of schisms. The fact that SMB failed in this key duty shows that he was not a capable da’i, and in fact was in it only to make himself and his parasite family richer. Which he did, spectacularly.

We will see what happens. I do not expect any amazing new revelations. What may help the FD is that the coward Muffy never showed up in the court. He only had 13 witnesses from his side. They are not taking this seriously. Perhaps they are confident that whatever they have is enough. And it is possible that SMB changed his mind in the end. The final events in the London hospital are not clearly explained yet. We shall see, but it is unlikely that there is some amazing new secret that is unknown that will emerge and change people’s mind.

BTW: I have a feeling that Muffy himself is a victim in this drama. He was not in the hospital when the so-called nass was done. It is possible he himself is being fooled into believing that nass occurred on him. That is why he did not take a stance in court. Under oath he would have to tell the truth that he was not in the hospital and that he only heard it from his family members. He also has been recorded as making the claim that once his dad told him he did nass, but now he does not remember the day or event! Not a good witness to put on the stand. Further, he is a genuinely stupid guy and would be unable to hold it under cross-examiniation. So I guess Muffy’s stupidity and cowardice may still ruin him. We will see!

Fatema Yamani
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:59 pm

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#3270

Unread post by Fatema Yamani » Thu Sep 08, 2022 10:13 am

@Biradar you should start a youtube channel and spread the "knowledge you have " before you die.