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Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:07 am
by Humsafar
Fatema Yamani wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:16 pm the best example to prove that the current dai and his followers have nothing to do with Imam is that when their leader is abuse they jump to defend but when the Imam is abused they keep silent, this is a great example that they have abandoned the concept of Imam and now they are just worshiping money and their leader.
Agree with you 100%, but the question then is, where is the Imam? The Imam is not just a "concept", he is supposed to be a real person, taking care of and guiding his followers.

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 12:06 pm
by Fatema Yamani
Humsafar wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:07 am
Fatema Yamani wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:16 pm the best example to prove that the current dai and his followers have nothing to do with Imam is that when their leader is abuse they jump to defend but when the Imam is abused they keep silent, this is a great example that they have abandoned the concept of Imam and now they are just worshiping money and their leader.
Agree with you 100%, but the question then is, where is the Imam? The Imam is not just a "concept", he is supposed to be a real person, taking care of and guiding his followers.
Humsafar I expect better questions from a senior and aged person like you. The concept of Imamat is not limited to 600k Bohras, as I said not just Islam but even Hinduism has a concept of KALKI coming, which is not bound by time but as a faith, it is going to happen. widen your understanding and if you really want to learn more about this please read more from SHIA's perspective.

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 12:17 pm
by anajmi
Biradar is one of those kufi muawiya lovers who loved to abuse Imam Ali.
Welcome to the club Biradar.

The concept of Imamat is not limited to 600k Bohras,
The concept of Imamat you are referring to is limited only to the Bohras. Sunnis do not believe in a hiding Imam. They believe in an Imam that will come in later times, but they are not waiting for him and nor are they following someone who claims he gets messages from he Imam. In fact in other sects if someone claims that he hears from the Imam, he will be declared an apostate and thrown into a psychic institute. So please do not keep saying that the concept of YOUR imamat is what is universal. It is not.

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 1:06 pm
by Humsafar
Fatema Yamani wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 12:06 pm Humsafar I expect better questions from a senior and aged person like you. The concept of Imamat is not limited to 600k Bohras, as I said not just Islam but even Hinduism has a concept of KALKI coming, which is not bound by time but as a faith, it is going to happen. widen your understanding and if you really want to learn more about this please read more from SHIA's perspective.
You are mixing up two different concepts of Imamat. One is the Shia/Ismaili/Fatimid chain of Imams who are supposed to be present at all times to guide the believers. The other is the concept of Qiam al Qaim, the Final Imam, the Redeemer who will come at the end of times and bring justice and peace and will defeat the forces of darkness and falsehood. This concept is fundamental to the Shia belief and, it is my understanding that Sunnis also believe in it. This ideology is similar to that of Kalki you refer to, and to the Christ's Second Coming, and is also common in many other traditions.

But here, in the Bohra context, we are NOT talking about Qiam al Qaim. We are talking about the "regular" Imam who is supposed to be here and now guiding us, and keeping the Dai in his place. And obviously, the regular Imam is not around doing his job. The whole discussion is about this Imam and this concept of Imamat. Do not confuse these two distinct concepts.

BTW I'm neither senior nor aged :wink:

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 1:02 am
by juzer esmail

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 5:21 am
by james
Biradar wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 4:33 pm More from HT: https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/m ... 08247.html

This is really a total farce. I am sure "Santa" is having a good laugh.

Incidentally, Muffy's elder brother, Qaid Chor is implying that SMB really did not do nass in Cromwell hospital. It seems that he is implying that as SMB had suffered a stroke he (i.e. Qaid Chor) decided to take matters in hand and inform Muffy that nass occurred. What a horrid mess!

So many nass-es, on so many occasions and so much secret chatter about it. Even SKQ's daughter thought at first that nass occurred on Muffy.
Normally I would suggest to take the ramblings of the Laeen Biradar with a pinch of salt but even a grain of salt has more value than the insane gibberish spewed out by Biradar.

The smokescreen Laeen Biradar is desperately trying to create from the article he quoted shows his level of desperation to steer away the condemnation he has received for the abuses spewed again the Imam AS of this age.
. The bench was informed that in an audio recording of June 4, 2011, the daughter of the original plaintiff had told him of the nass conferred on the defendant. In the same recording, Shehzada Qaid Johar was also heard mentioning an earlier nass being conferred on the defendant.
What actually the couple of the lines in the article is referring to is that Syedi QaidJohar Bhaisaab Ezzuddin DM informing his immediate family members of the Nass. Incidentally this is how Khuzaima came to know of Nass from his daughter Fatema who was married into Syedi QaidJohar Bhaisaab's family. She had secretly recorded the audio and sent it to her father. This audio recording was brought forward by the Plaintiff's side and in the same recording Syedi QaidJohar bs DM speaks of the earlier 2005 nass of which he was a witness which corroborates with the bayan of Syedi Malekulastar BS done in USA at that time.

So basically Khuzaima knew of the Nass right from 4th June 2011 and he wasn't blindsided into presiding the Nass announcement bayan majlis relayed all over the world on 6th June 2011. :oops:

Inkaar after Iqraar. :wink:

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 9:55 am
by Fatema Yamani
@Hamsafar

let's close this on a note that SHIA SUNNI HINDU CHRISTIANS and even JEWS are waiting for an IMAM. (only the name they are calling are different)

lets respect that

lanati biradar username is just a minion with 0 real knowledge and understanding, those who are considering him a pundit are the same.

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 10:30 am
by Biradar
I was gone for about 24 hours for work and family matters, and what do I see when I return? I am being cursed, lanto-fied and condemned by half-wits, morons and cretins of all sorts. Seems at least something has united them for a moment of cursing each other to curse me! Admin must award me with some prize or something. After all who would have thought that napusak Al-Bore, senile Uncle Alone and bootlicker james would unite? Impossible! Now they have a common enemy and pretty soon can even jump in bed together untying each other's ijars and stroking each other's dadhis. Also, apparently Humsafar also aged in just a day to become old and senior, according to said half-wits, morons and cretins. I am warning you, Humsafar: you will be also be showered with lanats. Just wait till these three jump in bed together and launch an orgiastic attack on you too! :shock:

As to the question of so-called hiding imam. He (or she) does not exist. Sad, but true. Some people expect that in the "end times" there will be a Mahdi who will reappear. But that person is not hiding anywhere and does not send telepathic messages to random money & power loving people calling them selves as SXX this or that. There is no savior, only us. Even in the Quran the responsibility for your salvation is yours and yours only. Incidentally, the concept of Mahdi does not occur in the Quran. But the concept of working towards one's salvation occurs on every page of the Quran. So instead of doing what is explicitly commanded, here we have people fighting for secret, hiding Santa Claus who is not mentioned anywhere in the Quran at all!

You know I find it really funny. Normal Bohra will curse and rant against mullahs, amils and even shezadas. But tell them their bhoot Muffy or his pappa is bad and they will rage and rave at you. Now, people here rage and rave against Muffy and his pappa, gradpappa and seven generations before him, and feel fine. But how dare you say that Santa Claus does not exist! I mean, I have hardly seen such anger and rage in defense of someone that does not even exit, and they can't even prove he/she is around, yet alone sending telepathic messages to the same SXXs they curse so roundly! Strange how they have erected a non-existent bhoot to defend. Sad, really, but what can one expect from half-wits, morons and cretins.

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 10:41 am
by Biradar
anajmi wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 12:17 pm
Biradar is one of those kufi muawiya lovers who loved to abuse Imam Ali.
Welcome to the club Biradar.

The concept of Imamat is not limited to 600k Bohras,
The concept of Imamat you are referring to is limited only to the Bohras. Sunnis do not believe in a hiding Imam. They believe in an Imam that will come in later times, but they are not waiting for him and nor are they following someone who claims he gets messages from he Imam. In fact in other sects if someone claims that he hears from the Imam, he will be declared an apostate and thrown into a psychic institute. So please do not keep saying that the concept of YOUR imamat is what is universal. It is not.
Isn't is amazing that someone who says Santa Claus does not exist is as bad as someone who uses "khanjar" on Imam Hussain or like the Kufis, Muawiya? Perhaps they should throw in Hitler, Pol Pot and Trump in the mix too. They I will be really evil :D. I mean, what is wrong with Ms. Napusak Al-Bore and senile Uncle Alone? I guess they have no sense of proportion, being distracted from finding themselves strange bed-fellows, feeling up each other, attacking me! :roll:

As to the point you make: the concept of Mahdi in various Sunni groups is not the same (even approximately) to that of this Santa who sends telepathic messages to SXXs in India, all of whom seem to get only messages to collect more money, faster and in greater amounts each year. And you are right. If someone says they are getting telepathic messages, one should recommend him for the nut-house. Or maybe send them to Uncle Alone and Ms Al-Bore to become their da'i!

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 1:10 pm
by anajmi
The jews are not waiting for an Imam. They are waiting for a prophet. They failed to recognize the last two that were sent. Christians are not waiting for an Imam. They are waiting for the second coming of Christ. Anyone who believes in a higher power is bound to believe in the coming of a savior. This is human fitrah. It does not mean a Hindu is the same as a Muslim is the same as a jew is the same as a Christian. Get that out of your heads.

Muslims too believe in the second coming of Christ. But Muslims believe he will come during the time of the Imam Mahdi. Mahdi is not a name. It is a title. It means one who is guided. He will be from the progeny of the prophet(ﷺ) but we do not know when he will come. The signs have been given to us. I do not know what the story of kalki is and do not wish to find out. The Quran does not mention the second coming of Christ or the Mahdi. All it mentions is the day of reckoning. Over and over again. It mentions the qualities of the leaders, which none of the Bohra Dais measure upto. And it mentions how our deeds and efforts is what will save our hereafter, rather than a note from the Dai buried with you in your grave. Unfortunately, the Bohras have been prevented from understanding the Quran for this reason. But stupidity and ignorance is your own fault. The Dai will have to account for his deeds and his sheep will have to account for theirs.

This is what I believe, when the Dais first took over, they pretended that they were still in contact with the Imam so as to keep the masses in line or to keep them happy or feeling safe and hopeful or to probably keep them on the straight path of deen. This probably went on for a bit and then the Dais realized that this con could actually make them rich and powerful and untouchable. They could become kings. So they took full advantage of this. The Shaitaan had played his hand. And that is the simple explanation for this whole Bohra religion.

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 10:40 am
by Fatema Yamani
you are still looking at the small picture of my imam and your imam, sunni imam and shia imam.
truth is when ever the IMAM UZ ZAMAN will appear he will unite all the true momeen and there wont be any sect or religion left.
all the true momeenin will unite under one banner.
I am Muslim and I believe in HADITH so I have faith in this.
mushreqin can go ahead and poke fun of this, it really doesnt matters.

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 12:40 pm
by anajmi
yes, but none of the Bohras believe in that. Bohras don't believe their Imam is going to unite anyone. He will just take the Bohras to jannah and the others (including other Bohra sects) are all doomed. And Bohras do not believe in Hadith.

Are you pretending to not understand or just not smart enough to understand?

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 9:38 pm
by Fatema Yamani
anajmi wrote: Sun Dec 25, 2022 12:40 pm yes, but none of the Bohras believe in that. Bohras don't believe their Imam is going to unite anyone. He will just take the Bohras to jannah and the others (including other Bohra sects) are all doomed. And Bohras do not believe in Hadith.

Are you pretending to not understand or just not smart enough to understand?
Not all bohras are abdes. Only modern ultra brain washed abde have above belief. Those bohra who have read Qur'an and Hadith are still there. I personally know many.

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 10:51 pm
by juzer esmail

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 7:20 am
by Moiz_Dhaanu
Muffaddalies get super charged-up when imam's "presence /no presence" was mentioned on the forum

But they have have no heart-burn or not even blinked an eyelid , when their own Circus Ring master DMBS made blasphemous claims in court that Imam Jaffer-u-sadiq(a.s.) did nass on Musa Qazim and that imam Mustansir first did nass on Nizar.

Waah!! Girgit (chameleon) ho to Mufaddali qaum jaise ho.

Its all of shia islam belief that
An imam is an imam only when 3 things happen:
His father is Imam
He is Imam
His son is Imam

so on what basis does DMBS say in ourt that Musa Qazim was imam and Nizar was imam, albeit, even for a short term.

Only Rubbish people can spew such baseless Rubbish.
DMBS :DAWEDAAR Mufaddal Bhai Saheb

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 11:10 pm
by Fatema Yamani
dawoodi bohra were not dead brain and jungli always, present leader and his father/grandfather turned them jungli so that they can easily make them slaves and take away their money, In golden days Bohras were most educated and open-minded and growth-oriented people.

watch video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PiJcshgVNA

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 11:40 pm
by Fatema Yamani
BTW corruption is not just in Bohra leadership but these days all Sunni Shia and all other sects' leadership are ayyash/aaram pasand and useless.

hundreds of Muslims got lynched and no Sunni leader had any guts to take any real action in India because they don't want any jail time or want to get disturbed in their comfort zones. Palestine Muslims are killed daily yet no Shia or Sunni leader is acting solid or taking a stand because they are happy in their comfort zone.

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 3:36 pm
by Kaka Akela
Hello All, i did not run away but went on a short vacation with family and grand children and great grand children.
To continue without name calling any body, brother has asked to show why imam was not mentioned in Quran??
And also he admitted that the imam to come before qiyamah would be a progeny or descendant of Rasulullah S A.
My answer to these 2 comments are these:
Imam (singular) is mentioned in Quran 6 times, plz see
2:124, 11:17, 15:79, 17:71, 25:74, & 46:12
Imam (plural) Aimmat is mentioned in Quran 5 times, plz see
9:12, 21:73, 28:5, 28:41, 32:24

Now to his 2nd question:
How can the imam at qiyamah be a progeny of Rasulullah S A if there is no continuity from him till qiyamah, this in itself is a proof that imam currently exists.
Yes, i have been here for 20+ years and have bitched and complained about the greed and corruption in our pristine religion since the time of STS. I am close to 90 and have heard stories of how simple the dai(s) were prior to STS, you could sit face to face with them while doing salaam. Now the brain-washed Jamea graduates have elevated them to a level that is beyond what their position demands.
Not only you can not sit in their presence but you have to bend half down while standing up. I have not questioned their position but only their greed and corruption in the our pristine religion and our belief system.
Only wahabis believe in Khuda and Quran and nothing else. Regular Sunnis also believe a last prophet coming before qiyamah.

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:40 pm
by Fatema Yamani
agree with you Sir

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 1:27 pm
by anajmi
I want to assume you actually read the ayahs that you posted but I seriously doubt it. None of the references provided actually mean what you think they mean.

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:39 pm
by Kaka Akela
Yes, all of them may not apply but there are 2 among them that are very pertinent to our discussion here. Plz determine for yourself which are those ones, I don't desire to spoon-feed a scholar of your caliber.

The statement Biradar made was that imam is imaginary and does not exist and not even mentioned in Quran. So i responded with 5 places where imam is mentioned.

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 9:50 pm
by Fatema Yamani
Agar ek munafik zeed pakad le to woh ye bhi prove kar de ki Allah mentioned in Quran is not the name of GOD but some thing else.

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 1:23 pm
by anajmi
Yes, all of them may not apply but there are 2 among them that are very pertinent to our discussion here.
Actually they have been made pertinent by those wishing to take advantage of gullible folks like yourself. There is nothing in the Quran about an Imam that will stay in hiding and guide the Dai that will in turn guide the Bohras or there will be an Imam present through all generations that will be guiding people. Even the ayahs you believe indicate that have been manipulated by those wishing to get or remain in power.

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:32 pm
by Fatema Yamani
As I said earlier :lol:

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 3:20 pm
by Kaka Akela
Some people here are like,"my mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts".
To these people nothing can convince, best to get back to the topic of this thread, which is the Nass case in the court. Anything new on it???

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2023 12:52 am
by zinger
Kaka Akela wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 2:12 am I agree it is open to all, a democratic Forum within the context of muslim/ bohra beliefs as the name of this Forum dictates. You can not pontificate anything that is outside of parameters of muslim/bohra beliefs.
I also have been on this Forum for long many years and have also admired Bro Birader and all others you mentioned and their extensive knowledge. But when he propagates that which is out of the realm or scope of this Forum, then he needs to be called out.
KakaAkela

sir, with all due respect,
"You can not pontificate anything that is outside of parameters of muslim/bohra beliefs." this means that Anajmi, Muslim First, Bohra Spring, Ghulam Mohammad, Al Z and many others have no place here either, because they too, pontificate on matters outside Bohra belief.

i hope you can appreciate what im trying to say, that while Birader said what he has, there are many others too, who have said the same thing, many, many times before

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2023 12:56 am
by zinger
Fatema Yamani wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 4:03 am there were people in the time of Muawiya who use to be okay even when Imam Ali was abused from the mimbar, they use to think muawiya is present khaliafa and we should not attack or say any thing,

today people like zinger comes in same category who are okay to read abuse to Imam written by some 2 paisa naa so called self-proclaimed scholar, Quran has sent lanat on such munafiq.

such 2 paisa worth scholars read 2 3 books in arabic literature and thinks they have knowledge to comment on Imam and Islam
Resident Virus AKA Sufi Monk AKA Incredible AKA Student AKA Trader AKA Hozefa AKA Gulf AKA LabbaikYaHussain AKA all your other ID.. read my posts and more importantly, read Birader's posts... nowhere has he abused the Imam.

He has posed a question. Now wherther it is literal or rhetorical, only he can say

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2023 2:32 am
by zinger
Kaka Akela wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:18 pm Hello Biradar, Zinger and Humsafar, thank you for calling us half brained and changing the sex of one of us.
I assume Biradar or one of you 3 is the moderator of this Forum. This explains why you back up each other and no one gets banned for insulting the imam in such horrible & filthy words and also denying even his existence.
I have been on this Forum for 20+ years and we used to have very heated but enlightening discussions about all aspects and personalities of our deen, but I don't remember such abusive and derogatory language used for a descendant of Rasulullah S A. Reading kalema tus Shahada makes you Muslim,yes but Muawiyah, Yazid and Shimar also had recited the same kalema and brutally assasinated the imam. You all are doing the same except your MO is verbal, in writing and not with bhoota khunjar.
In the number 1,000,000 the zeros represent the knowledge ( the immense knowledge of Biradar) and the one represents the valayat of Aimmat Tahereen and Panjatan paak.
Without the presence of one in the number all the zeros mean nothing. So Biradar all your PhDs and immense knowledge and fancy verbiage is for naught if you use such fowl language for imam and even doubt his existence. I don't want to continue a back and forth on this issue and will end by saying to each his own.
Kaka Akela uncle (and i call you uncle out of respect, given that you are twice my age and nothing derogatory is to be implied)

i for one did not call you half-brained so please do not include me in the lot. i have a whole lot of respect for you, for your knowledge and you have demonstrated a lot of it.

as for changing the sex of another, it is only natural that the resident virus will be treated thus. i too have often in the past addressed him/her/it as such. clearly, he/she/it is deulsional and i dont even believe to be a Shia; and i have my reasons for it

And rest assured, i am not the moderator. i wish i was, because i can smell the resident virus from a mile away and find it deplorable that he/she/it is allowed to flourish and pollute this forum

i have personally been on this forum since 2007 or 2008 i think, albeit under a different ID and i dont think i have heard anyone abuse or use vulgar language for a descendant of Rasulullah SAWW. If they have, i can tell you that they have been banned and kicked out

Questioning the existence of someone is not akin to "insulting the imam in such horrible & filthy words" and that is what i have tried to point out in my earlier post too

as for the knowledge of both you and Birader, i am sure it is much, much more vast. i am literally an ingoramus compared to you, so i will not get into a theosophical discussion and will let it lie here myself

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2023 2:35 am
by zinger
Biradar wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 10:30 am I was gone for about 24 hours for work and family matters, and what do I see when I return? I am being cursed, lanto-fied and condemned by half-wits, morons and cretins of all sorts. Seems at least something has united them for a moment of cursing each other to curse me! Admin must award me with some prize or something. After all who would have thought that napusak Al-Bore, senile Uncle Alone and bootlicker james would unite? Impossible! Now they have a common enemy and pretty soon can even jump in bed together untying each other's ijars and stroking each other's dadhis. Also, apparently Humsafar also aged in just a day to become old and senior, according to said half-wits, morons and cretins. I am warning you, Humsafar: you will be also be showered with lanats. Just wait till these three jump in bed together and launch an orgiastic attack on you too! :shock:
ok buddy, you really need to back off and calm down now.

name calling only makes you look like an immature 6-year old who's lolly was stolen by schoolyard bullies

stick to the argument, dont get personal

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:02 am
by Shabab
Kaka Akela wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 3:20 pm Some people here are like,"my mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts".
To these people nothing can convince, best to get back to the topic of this thread, which is the Nass case in the court. Anything new on it???
looks like the judge is confused too