The True Imam - How would you verify?

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porus
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#661

Unread post by porus » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:27 pm

anajmi wrote: If 33:33 means becoming infallible, then we all become infallible every time we do wudhu as per 5:6. Then that would mean that the Ulema also become infallible when in wudhu!!
Of course, God should have told ahlul bayt to perform wudu instead of revealing 33:33.

Since there is nothing special about 33:33, anajmi will be infallible after performing wudu and Muslim First can include him among his Ulama and elevate anajmi above the Prophet and all the members of ahlul bayt. Jesus! Even Muslim First can become infallible by performing wudu.

Come to think of it, both Muslim First and anajmi are infallible as they have performed wudu. They have been confirming it over the past 10 years over here by riding a high horse of religious superiority over all the Shia. Bravo! :roll:

porus
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#662

Unread post by porus » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:36 pm

anajmi wrote: How do we know that the Quran is the word of God? Because the prophet says so and he is infallible. And how do know that the prophet is infallible? Because the Quran says so!

So which comes first? The chicken or the egg?
We do not know a priori that the Quran is a word of God. We first began to trust Muhammad. We were convinced by the first series of revelations that they were from God. Issue of tatheer came later to confirm Prophet's infallibility. When that happened, we were already convinced of it. Not the jaahils, of course.

anajmi
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#663

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:41 pm

We first began to trust Muhammad.
So did you trust Muhammad because he was infallible or because he was a trustworthy person? The incident is famous where after he was asked to openly declare Islam, he climbed onto the mountain and asked the people that were gathered if they would believe him if were to tell them that there was an army waiting to attack them on the other side. They all replied in the affirmative. Not because the prophet was infallible. But because he was trustworthy.

His trustworthiness has been established in history. His infallibility is folklore!!
Issue of tatheer came later to confirm Prophet's infallibility.
tatheer does nothing of that sort!!

anajmi
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#664

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:48 pm

Of course, God should have told ahlul bayt to perform wudu instead of revealing 33:33.
That is the problem with you people. You should read some ayahs before and after 33:33. You people obviously have blinders on. Ayah 33:33 just says that if you were to do what has been suggested in prior ayahs, that too would mean that you have been purified (and not made infallible as has been incorrectly interpreted). There are many ways to earn Allah's purification. You can do wudhu, the women are asked to stay in the homes and not make a display of themselves, give zakat to make your money infallible, sorry, purified etc etc. But the idol worshippers ignore all that to justify their idol worship.

anajmi
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#665

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:00 pm

We first began to trust Muhammad. We were convinced by the first series of revelations that they were from God.
Good. Then we agree that there is no need to for someone to believe in the infallibility of the prophet in order to believe in the Quran to be the word of God.

Whether he was infallible or not is hence, immaterial.

anajmi
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#666

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:29 pm

وَإِذْ جَعَلْنَا الْبَيْتَ مَثَابَةً لِّلنَّاسِ وَأَمْناً وَاتَّخِذُواْ مِن مَّقَامِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ مُصَلًّى وَعَهِدْنَا إِلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ أَن طَهِّرَا بَيْتِيَ لِلطَّائِفِينَ وَالْعَاكِفِينَ وَالرُّكَّعِ السُّجُودِ

Look at this ayah. Here Allah is asking Ibrahim (as) and Ismail (as) to infallibalify his house. But only Allah can infallibalify, so shouldn't he be doing it himself? It is His house after all!!

إِذْ يُغَشِّيكُمُ النُّعَاسَ أَمَنَةً مِّنْهُ وَيُنَزِّلُ عَلَيْكُم مِّن السَّمَاء مَاء لِّيُطَهِّرَكُم بِهِ وَيُذْهِبَ عَنكُمْ رِجْزَ الشَّيْطَانِ وَلِيَرْبِطَ عَلَى قُلُوبِكُمْ وَيُثَبِّتَ بِهِ الأَقْدَامَ

Here Allah is sending down rain to infallibalize the people of Badr.

porus
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#667

Unread post by porus » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:36 pm

anajmi wrote: Good. Then we agree that there is no need to for someone to believe in the infallibility of the prophet in order to believe in the Quran to be the word of God.

Whether he was infallible or not is hence, immaterial.
We trusted Muhammad. But there were plenty of anajmis then who, like Abu Sufyan, grudgingly accepted Muhammad's mission, but were not convinced of his trustworthiness and infallibility. That is why 33:33 was revealed. And there was a little matter of making sure that Allah included Panjatan in the ayat of tatheer.

So that hypocrites would know that not only God appointed Muhammad to be spokesperson for Him but also a few more who would do so after Muhammad.

porus
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#668

Unread post by porus » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:38 pm

anajmi wrote:وَإِذْ جَعَلْنَا الْبَيْتَ مَثَابَةً لِّلنَّاسِ وَأَمْناً وَاتَّخِذُواْ مِن مَّقَامِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ مُصَلًّى وَعَهِدْنَا إِلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ أَن طَهِّرَا بَيْتِيَ لِلطَّائِفِينَ وَالْعَاكِفِينَ وَالرُّكَّعِ السُّجُودِ

Look at this ayah. Here Allah is asking Ibrahim (as) and Ismail (as) to infallibalify his house. But only Allah can infallibalify, so shouldn't he be doing it himself? It is His house after all!!

إِذْ يُغَشِّيكُمُ النُّعَاسَ أَمَنَةً مِّنْهُ وَيُنَزِّلُ عَلَيْكُم مِّن السَّمَاء مَاء لِّيُطَهِّرَكُم بِهِ وَيُذْهِبَ عَنكُمْ رِجْزَ الشَّيْطَانِ وَلِيَرْبِطَ عَلَى قُلُوبِكُمْ وَيُثَبِّتَ بِهِ الأَقْدَامَ

Here Allah is sending down rain to infallibalize the people of Badr.
So when did you get your Ph. D. in Quranic Arabic?

anajmi
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#669

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:06 pm

We trusted Muhammad. But there were plenty of anajmis then who, like Abu Sufyan, grudgingly accepted Muhammad's mission, but were not convinced of his trustworthiness and infallibility. That is why 33:33 was revealed.
Hmmmm.... so you are saying after 33:33 was revealed, Abu Sufyan was truly convinced about Muhammad's mission and the shia curse him for no reason eh? And all hypocrites became true believers as soon as 33:33 was revealed? Wow!!. None of the ayahs glorifying Allah worked on these people, none threatening them with hellfire or rewarding them with heaven worked, and one ayah apparently glorifying humans worked!!. No wonder they were hypocrites and mushriks.
And there was a little matter of making sure that Allah included Panjatan in the ayat of tatheer.
33:33 doesn't include "panjatan". Who gave you your ph. d. in Quranic Arabic? 33:33 is referring to the wives of the prophet (saw) and the prophet himself. The addition of "panjatan" to this ayah is an example of the shia corrupting the message of the Quran.
So that hypocrites would know that not only God appointed Muhammad to be spokesperson for Him but also a few more who would do so after Muhammad.
And yet, none of it worked!! The hypocrites remained hypocrites and Ali's thrown was usurped nonetheless. All it did was to lead a bunch of people to become idol worshippers!!

anajmi
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#670

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:22 pm

Here is ayah 33:33 with some translations

وَقَرْنَ فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ وَلَا تَبَرَّجْنَ تَبَرُّجَ الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ الْأُولَى وَأَقِمْنَ الصَّلَاةَ وَآتِينَ الزَّكَاةَ وَأَطِعْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًا

Asad
And abide quietly in your homes, and do not flaunt your charms as they used to flaunt them in the old days of pagan ignorance; and be constant in prayer, and render the purifying dues, and pay heed unto God and His Apostle: for God only wants to remove from you all that might be loathsome, O you members of the [Prophet’s] household, and to purify you to utmost purity.

Pickthall
And stay in your houses. Bedizen not yourselves with the bedizenment of the Time of ignorance. Be regular in prayer, and pay the poor due, and obey Allah and His messenger. Allah's wish is but to remove uncleanness far from you, O Folk of the Household, and cleanse you with a thorough cleansing.


Sahih International
And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification.

Muhsin Khan
And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance, and perform As-Salat (IqamatasSalat), and give Zakat and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah wishes only to remove ArRijs (evil deeds and sins, etc.) from you, O members of the family (of the Prophet SAW), and to purify you with a thorough purification.

Shakir
And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying.

Dr. Ghali
And reside in your homes, and do not flaunt your finery as was the flaunting of finery in the earliest (times) of Ignorance, and keep up the prayer, and bring the Zakat, (Pat the poor-dues) and obey Allah and His Messenger. Surely Allah wills only to put away indeed from you abomination, Population of the Home, and to purify you a thorough purification.



As you can see, the word "panjatan" doesn't appear anywhere. To an uncorrupted, undeviated mind, the meaning of this ayah would be quite obvious. The purification (infallibalification) is happening for those who are being asked to stay in their homes and not to flaunt themselves and keep up the prayer and pay the zakat and to obey Allah and his messenger. These are the people of the household and these are the ones that are being purified (infallibalified). If we read the ayahs appearing right before this ayah, these people are the wives of the prophet (saw).

Now, the shia will display their complete ignorance of the Arabic language by talking about how the gender changes from feminine to masculine etc. But, as I said, that displays their complete lack of knowledge of Arabic. They haven't understood even the basic feminine and masculine concept of Arabic language. When addressing a group of people that includes male and female, the masculine gender is used in the Arabic language because the Arabic masculine is inclusive. Even if there is 1 male and a thousand females, the masculine gender will be used. The address over here is to the people of the house. That is the prophet (saw) (male) and his wives (female), hence the use of the masculine gender. Inspite of this basic Arabic concept, you will find every single shia author presenting this as an argument. Apart from this invalid argument, they have nothing else. It is obvious isn't it? If they had something better, they wouldn't be using this invalid argument now would they?

Fateh
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#671

Unread post by Fateh » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:31 am

Zamane Ko Agar RASOOL Se Pyar Hota

To Kyon Sajde Mai ALI Pe Waar Hota,

Na Parte Dirray FATIMA Ki Peeth Par Na Chehra Tamacho Se Laal Hota

Mil Jati HASAN Ko NANA Ke Pehlu Mai Jagah

Zamana Agar MUHAMMAD Ka Wafadar Hota

Na Hota Pamaal yoo Ghar FATEMA Ka KERBALA Mai

Na HUSSAIN Ke Hulqoom Par Khanjar rawa Bar Bar Hota

Na Looti Jati ZAINAB O KULSOOM Ki Rida

Na Zanjiro Mai Jakra ABID E BEEMAR Hota

Na Barchhi Lagti AKBAR Ke Seenay Mai

Na ABDULLAH Ka SEHRA Taar Taar Hota

Na Chheeni Jati SAKINA Ke Kaano Se Baliyan

Na Teer ASGHAR Ke Galay Se Paar Hota!
Zamane ko agar Rasool se pyar hota..

Aymelek
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#672

Unread post by Aymelek » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:26 am

Muslim First wrote: In addition, he made decisions based on his own judgment and was wrong (at least was not able to choose the better option) in some of these decisions. As such, it is clear that not all of his sayings and practices were a product of divine revelation.
So Br. MF as per you and your ulema, Prophet can make mistakes in all other things except for revealation of Quran. So now how you are sure that the sunnah and hadiths you follow are sin free / error free. The 3 rakats of magrib prayers are not part of revealation of Quran so isnt it possible as per your school of thought that Prophet would have erred here.

But of course your wahabi ulemas are correct in all their decision and perfect (though Prophet, the role model for mankind, was not perfect); that is why you believe your ulema when they say Prophet was prone to errors and mistake and sins when not revealing Quran. In conclusion you should not be quoting hadiths and sunnahs from an error prone human.

The Shia school of thought believes that it is necessity of religion for Prophets to be infallible. Allah has said He will protect / preserve His message (Quran) and how does HE do that by ensuring the person delivering the message (Messenger) is error free. Shias believe that infallibility of Prophet is a means used by Allah to acheive His objective of preserving the religion in its pure form.

anajmi wrote: That is the problem with you people. You should read some ayahs before and after 33:33. You people obviously have blinders on. Ayah 33:33 just says that if you were to do what has been suggested in prior ayahs, that too would mean that you have been purified (and not made infallible as has been incorrectly interpreted). There are many ways to earn Allah's purification.

Br. Anajmi,

Shias believe that the specific portion relevant to purification was revelaed at the time of Hadith Kisa. Ayat Tatheer was first revealed in the house of Umm Salama. The 2nd time, it was said in response to blessing by Allah.

The placement of ayat in Quran in between the verses of his wives was done during compilation, it was not revealed with those verses. Hence it doesnt change the interpretation which Shias have.

The interpretation has been argued many times on this forum and be assured Shias will continue to hold this point of view. The problem with you and your wahabbi brethren is that they are always in haste to make judgements. You and your instructors forget that only Allah is Adil. So let him make the judgement who is correct and who is wrong, till then have patience and learn to co-exist. After all patience is a virtue of momin. Stop calling people kafir and mushrik just because they do not accept your interpretation of Islam. Let Allah do the judgement. Hope your wahabi instructor have told you that Allah is Adil coz you will trust them more than Prophet who is prone to sin and error.

See you in the queue on the day of judgement, till then dua maa yaad.

anajmi
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#673

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:31 am

Br asad,

What the shia believe is immaterial. The placement of every ayah of the Quran is as per instructions from Allah. If an ayah is placed at a certain place, then it belongs over there. Besides, shia agree that half of that ayah refers to the wives of the prophet (saw) and then mid-way through the ayah the direction changes 180 degrees. You can believe whatever you like, but do not attribute your beliefs to the Quran.
Prophet was prone to errors and mistake and sins when not revealing Quran.
The above is not the mainstream muslim point of view but attributed to them by people like you trying to weasel your way out of sticky situations. The prophet (saw) wasn't prone to errors or mistakes or sins. Allah says in the Quran that the prophet (saw) doesn't do anything but that is with the will of Allah. So stop saying this nonsense when you run out of arguments to defend your idol worshipping ways. Only Allah is infallible. Attributing infallibility to humans is the trait of idol worshippers. I have shown time and time again that the Quran doesn't attribute infallibility to any human. The judgement for those who play with the words of Allah is already there in the Quran. You don't have to wait for Allah to be judge. You have to read the Quran and see what the judgement is.

You shouldn't be waiting for the day of judgement, you should be preparing for it.

progticide
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#674

Unread post by progticide » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:12 am

anajmi wrote: You shouldn't be waiting for the day of judgement, you should be preparing for it.
Anajmi,
Dont bother preparing yourself for the Day of Judgement....Hell is already well-furnished and ready to accomodate you and MF with the choicest of fires.

Porus,
Stop laughing at anajmi's fate....you too would be joining him there.

Now dont ask me how I know all this.....non-DBs are not privy to this knowledge. So please excuse this question.

SBM
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#675

Unread post by SBM » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:27 am

progticide wrote:
anajmi wrote: You shouldn't be waiting for the day of judgement, you should be preparing for it.
Anajmi,
Dont bother preparing yourself for the Day of Judgement....Hell is already well-furnished and ready to accomodate you and MF with the choicest of fires.

Porus,
Stop laughing at anajmi's fate....you too would be joining him there.

Now dont ask me how I know all this.....non-DBs are not privy to this knowledge. So please excuse this question.
How do you know this because you will be in the front of the line ...............any one who justifies beating of any Muslim during the month of Ramadan while they are in the state of ROZA, in the Masjid, who are there to offer their Salah for the pleasure of Allah and anyone who stops them from that duty has a special place in hell so that is why you know all this...........

Humsafar
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#676

Unread post by Humsafar » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:13 am

progticide wrote:All non-DBs on this forum,
Look at your pathetic state of affairs...
What could be more pathetic than attacking people in masjid when they are praying?
progticide wrote:The only reason for your irrational and despicable actions is your digression from the true faith....the true path of Islam....and your enmity toward the only true guide in today's world, the only true representative of the Imam of the time, with absolute authority and infallibility, the Dai-e-Mutlaq Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin (TUS).
What could be more irrational and despicable than attacking people in masjid when they are praying? And all this under the watch of the absolute authority and infallibility, the Dai-e-Mutlaq Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin (TUS)?
progticide wrote:But your hatred and enmity is so profound that it has overpowered your senses of rationality and objective reasoning...
Yes, your hatred and enmity is so profound that it won't stop abdes from attacking people in masjid when they are praying.

Rookie
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:55 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#677

Unread post by Rookie » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:22 am

^ it has no basis and no truth that bohras may attack any one in masjid and specially while they are praying, not a single photograph was taken? no video?

just because some idiots comes up with some RED FONTS to describe some thing, it doesn't becomes truth. :roll:

porus
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#678

Unread post by porus » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:19 pm

Aaisha, Ummul Mumineen, relates Hadith of ahl al-kisaa = ahl al-bayt.

In this video, Tahir al-Qadri claims that anyone who is not immersed in the love of ahl al-bayt, 'sar se lekar paoon tak', as primary component of their faith (walaayat) do not deserve to be called Sunnis.

I say, though, that they can call themselves Wahhabis, modern day Kahrijis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92-egd-xuBs

lakshya
Posts: 27
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#679

Unread post by lakshya » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:29 pm

porus wrote:Aaisha, Ummul Mumineen, relates Hadith of ahl al-kisaa = ahl al-bayt.

In this video, Tahir al-Qadri claims that anyone who is not immersed in the love of ahl al-bayt, 'sar se lekar paoon tak', as primary component of their faith (walaayat) do not deserve to be called Sunnis.

I say, though, that they can call themselves Wahhabis, modern day Kahrijis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92-egd-xuBs
yet this wh*** aisha raged war against mola e qayinaat Ali ibn abi talib,

people like red neck anajmi and muslim first are in deep shiiit ROFL hahahhaa

porus
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#680

Unread post by porus » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:45 pm

Admin,

Let me categorically express my disgust and abhorrence at the last post by lakshya.

Imagine this guy just spent Laylat al-qadr taking wasaail of ahl-e-bayt? Shame on him.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#681

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:53 pm

Br porus
JAk
We are used to this.

Or like this

Bhai, do u really think, this bidi smoker, zaanikaar miyaa bhai, can really understand deep thoughts of your post? I highly doubt.

this illegitimate kids of umar miya bhais are bond to be damned taa qayamat and even after that.

anajmi
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#682

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:11 pm

In this video, Tahir al-Qadri claims that anyone who is not immersed in the love of ahl al-bayt, 'sar se lekar paoon tak', as primary component of their faith (walaayat) do not deserve to be called Sunnis.
Anyone who claims that the primary component of Islam is walayat is not a Sunni but a mushrik. The primary component of Islam is Tawheed. It is quite amazing how great and learned scholars have been deceived by the devil. This kind of primary componentized walayat is shirk. Different people saying the same thing over and over again doesn't change the fact. The hadith from Ummul Mumineen has been accepted. It's shia interpretation is rejected. The ayah 33:33 is accepted. It's shia interpretation is rejected.

Another thing to note is how Aisha (ra) become ummul mumineen when this particular hadith is narrated but becomes worthy of cursing and every other time and at other times she is ummul mumineen to prevent her from marrying only. These people should be ashamed of themselves!!

anajmi
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#683

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:20 pm

One other thing. Tahir al-Qadri notes that Aisha (ra) was happy about the incident and she had no hatred for the family of Ali (ra) in her heart. If she wasn't happy she wouldn't be narrating this hadith. She was happy about what? As per the shia interpretation of 33:33 and the hadith, she had been just thrown out of being a member of the house. She was happy about being eliminated from the people of the house?

porus
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#684

Unread post by porus » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:46 pm

Aaisha was ummul mumineen because she was married to Prophet but came close to being divorced by him.

My view is that it is strange that Aaisha ever related the story of ahl-al-kisaa. Could it be that the story was faked into hadith by Muawiya supporters like Abu Hurayra to elevate her after her war against Ameerul Mumineen?

Aaisha mounted the camel seeking to eliminate the rightful Khalifa against the injunctions of the Quran. She also mounted a donkey to prevent the burial of Imam Hasan next to Prophet's grave, again against the injunctions of the Quran. She hated Fatima and was extremely jealous of Khadija bint Khuwaylid, even though she was dead.

She knew that her father Abu Bakr had denied inheritance to Fatima and he died having incurred Fatima's anger, hence Prophet's and Allah's anger. Yet she went to Usman demanding Prophet's inheritance. When Usman followed Abu Bakr in denying her the inheritance, she called for Usman's killing.

When Usman was killed, she shamelessly blamed Ali for it.

Even if she was present at the episode that Tahir al-Qadri describes, her hatred of Ali, Fatima and their children would have prevented her from commenting on it.

Muslim First
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#685

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:51 am

Porus wrote:
Fatima's anger, hence Prophet's and Allah's anger
You forgot to list Hz Ali's desire to take second wife which resulted in Bibi Fatema's anger, hence Prophet's and Allah's anger.
May be Hz Ali is Allah's first born son like JC or Hz Ali was Masoom so it did not matter.

And there was a minor matter (which you chose not to list) of Hz Ali's advice to Prophet to divorce Bibi Aisha during Neckless incident which may be root of Ali-Aisha friction. May be it is invention of Abu Hurera. Sunnis are good at making up stories.

It has been long time and we are still crying (or may be fighting ) over spilled milk.

Peace and Ramadaan Kareem

porus
Posts: 3594
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#686

Unread post by porus » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:58 am

Muslim First wrote: You forgot to list Hz Ali's desire to take second wife which resulted in Bibi Fatema's anger, hence Prophet's and Allah's anger.
Dear brother Muslim First,

Since you dredged up this story about Fatima's anger for Ali, we have shown that the story is fake. You do not have absolute trust in the Quran as infallible word of God (since you do not trust its transmitter, Muhammad, to be infallible) and you have no love for Ahl-e-bayt. Hence your Islam is suspect.

Muslim First wrote: And there was a minor matter (which you chose not to list) of Hz Ali's advice to Prophet to divorce Bibi Aisha during Neckless incident which may be root of Ali-Aisha friction. May be it is invention of Abu Hurera. Sunnis are good at making up stories.
What is fiction? That there was the necklace incident? That Sunnis choose to believe that Allah confirmed Aaisha's innocence (they even point to an ayat in the Quran)? That Prophet suggested to Ali that he divorce Aaisha? That Ali agreed?

By the way, I do not consider the hadith of Ahl-e-Kisaa to be a fabrication. I was only expressing a surprise that Aaisha would relate it, considering her enmity towards the 4 of the 5 ahl-e-bayt.

sixfeetunder
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#687

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:11 am

I strongly condemn the words of 'lakshya' for Bibi Aisha. It is a shame that people like 'lakshya' call themselves Shian-e-Ali. They are a disgrace on Ahlul bayt.

"Become an ornament for us, do not be a disgrace for us." ~ Imam al-Sadiq (a) ~

anajmi
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#688

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:32 am

Could it be that the story was faked into hadith by Muawiya supporters like Abu Hurayra to elevate her after her war against Ameerul Mumineen?
I don't think that might be the purpose of this hadith. If this hadith had been faked, it wasn't to raise the status of Aisha (ra) but to make idol worshippers out of the supporters of Ali (ra) and by God did it succeed in that purpose!! Aisha (ra)'s status has been raised by the Quran. She doesn't need hadith for it.
(since you do not trust its transmitter, Muhammad, to be infallible) and you have no love for Ahl-e-bayt. Hence your Islam is suspect.
Anyone who believes that Allah needs an infallible human to protect the transmission of the Quran and that he cannot do it by himself, is a mushrik. Loving Ahl-e-bayt and worshipping them are two different things. We should differentiate between them. One can love someone without attributing infallibility and super human qualities to them. One can love someone without claiming the throne for them and one can love someone without hating someone else. I love my wife and that doesn't mean that she needs to be the infallible queen of the world!! I can love the ahl-e-bayt without believing in the politics of the throne as presented by the shia. What the shia do is not love but worship.

By the way, as we see above, Aisha (ra) went from Ummul Mumineen to a shameless character within two posts and the backbone of shia idol worship is now in doubt. A good nights work I would say!!
Last edited by anajmi on Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Muslim First
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Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#689

Unread post by Muslim First » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:45 am

Porus wrote
Could it be that the story was faked into hadith by Muawiya supporters like Abu Hurayra to elevate her after her war against Ameerul Mumineen?
Well yes, whole Sunni Islam is fake. It is fake bacuse they did not buy and still not buying that Islam was not and is not personal property of Ahle e bait. Abu Bakr, Umar, Usman, Aisha, Muwaya and Ahadith narrators like Abu Hurera are liers. How dare they blame God annoited Masooms?

So now true Muslims are Shias and their various fractions.

Wasalaam and Ramdaan Kareem.

sixfeetunder
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:48 am

Re: The True Imam - How would you verify?

#690

Unread post by sixfeetunder » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:00 pm

Muslim First wrote:
Porus wrote
Could it be that the story was faked into hadith by Muawiya supporters like Abu Hurayra to elevate her after her war against Ameerul Mumineen?
Well yes, whole Sunni Islam is fake. It is fake bacuse they did not buy and still not buying that Islam was not and is not personal property of Ahle e bait. Abu Bakr, Umar, Usman, Aisha, Muwaya and Ahadith narrators like Abu Hurera are liers. How dare they blame God annoited Masooms?

So now true Muslims are Shias and their various fractions.

Wasalaam and Ramdaan Kareem.
Alhamdolillah. Yes, it is true that Sunni Islam is fake. Sunni Islam is CNN/Fox news and Shia Islam is wikileaks (or rather 'Sahabaleaks').