Syria militants exhume grave of Prophet’s companion

[MunkirNakir]

Bismillah...

very saddening Incident...

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/05/0 ... holy-site/

[ghulam muhammed]

The people responsible for this horrendous act should be hacked to death and denied a place of burial.

[Grayson]

Why respond to horrendous acts with horrendous acts?

[MunkirNakir]

Why respond to horrendous acts with horrendous acts?

thats what Quraan says......

Aakh ke badle aakh, kaan ke bade kaan, khoon kaa badla khoon.

so it gives lessons to tyrants for future....

[Grayson]

Qisas isn't a requirement.
Turning the other cheek is a virtue.

[MunkirNakir]

Qisas isn't a requirement.
Turning the other cheek is a virtue.

just because of this attitude and ignoring QURAAN rules people like smb and mufaddal have acquire haraam power and money.

[Grayson]

Yes, and the Quran endorses brutally slaughtering those that you've perceived to have wronged you rather than humanely demanding justice through due process of law. Please.
Endorsing the hacking of anyone to death is personal and ignorant vengeance, rather than justice in the name of God.
How's your act of retaliation any less humane than the terrorists who terrorized you?

[MunkirNakir]

Yes, and the Quran endorses brutally slaughtering those that you've perceived to have wronged you rather than humanely demanding justice through due process of law. Please.
Endorsing the hacking of anyone to death is personal and ignorant vengeance, rather than justice in the name of God.
How's your act of retaliation any less humane than the terrorists who terrorized you?

you are not getting the point, when QURAAN speaks about qiyaas it doesnt means it has to be taken, but ALLAH SUBHANU do warns humans to stay firm on tyrants and do what is needful to stop such incidents happening in future, this is why sudden steps shud be taken, and not just stay mum and keep showing another cheek that tyrant keep slapping.

even IMAM HUSSAIN (s) went in field with his sword and fought until ALLAH told him to stop....

showing cheek to get slap is not option every time....

[Grayson]

And Imam Hasan did the complete opposite.
Not to mention, Imam Husain was put in a position in which he was forced to react; he didn't declare war himself.
The Quran also speaks clearly about equal retaliation (and how criminal jurisprudence is more grey than black and white); as reprehensible as someone's actions may be against you, who are you to say that hacking people to death (I thought we were taught to kill without inflicting suffering?) is equal retribution?

[MunkirNakir]

And Imam Hasan did the complete opposite.
Not to mention, Imam Husain was put in a position in which he was forced to react; he didn't declare war himself.
The Quran also speaks clearly about equal retaliation (and how criminal jurisprudence is more grey than black and white); as reprehensible as someone's actions may be against you, who are you to say that hacking people to death (I thought we were taught to kill without inflicting suffering?) is equal retribution?

digging up sahabas grave isnt forcing up real muslims to corner to declare war?

[Grayson]

and hacking them to death and denying them a place of burial without justice through due process of law? sure. in 7th century AD.

[ghulam muhammed]

and hacking them to death and denying them a place of burial without justice through due process of law? sure. in 7th century AD.

And what has the "Due process of law" done to the architect of Muslim Genocide, Narendra Modi ? Are the video recordings, statements of confession by the perpetrators who clearly boasted of Modi helping them kill muslims not enough to prosecute him ? Not to forget the various reports by NGOs worldwide including Amnesty International.

[Grayson]

What a funny argument.
What does such brutal and inhumane retaliation do in response? How does that solve anything? It shows resentment over believed persecution complex. Which you make a statement against via act of extremism under the banner of "allowed by Allah"? I daresay fanatic extremists argue the same. Under the guise of similar convictions.
Appealing to sentiments of a different topic doesn't support the notion that brutal violence against another (based on stretched and selective reasoning) is just response to injustice.

[ghulam muhammed]

@Grayson,

So what do you suggest ? Garland the perpetrators and give them Ziafat and felicitate them like how Modi was felicitated in a Masjid by the 52nd Dai.

[Grayson]

What I suggest is to reason if the call for such violence and it's supplemented thinking solves anything. There's no indefinite answer. I just believe that's along the lines of extremist thinking. Which I'll denounce unapologetically.

[ghulam muhammed]

So what would you do if God forbid the saffron brigade barges into your house, hacks your near and dear ones, rapes the females and burns them alive ? Will you offer them a rose like Munnabhai ?

[Grayson]

I would likely lash out violently in response to what's happened to my loved ones, hopefully restrained by others of good sense and less grievance.
But that would be my act. My retaliation. In my anger I wouldn't care if it's allowed by God or not, and I certainly wouldn't have the patience to contemplate it as all I'd see is red.
And it's still not right. Those acts would do nothing aside from satiate my pain and vengeance. That justice is mine (that too because I'd see it as such), not in the name of God I'd pretend it to be.
Which is why it differs greatly from the preplanned notion of a brutal retaliatory assault dishonestly floating on the ideals of waging holy war.

[MunkirNakir]

I wonder what abdes would do if sunnis of chor bazaar dig up sts grave.

[Grayson]

Doesn't matter who commits what. If it's vicious and unintelligent, it's abominable. Both the provocation and the retaliation.

[shapur]

Doesn't matter who commits what. If it's vicious and unintelligent, it's abominable. Both the provocation and the retaliation.

But the fact is that such incidents are all that we hear of in the world today. So whats the recourse supposed to be for the victimised ?

And it's still not right. Those acts would do nothing aside from satiate my pain and vengeance. That justice is mine (that too because I'd see it as such), not in the name of God I'd pretend it to be.
Which is why it differs greatly from the preplanned notion of a brutal retaliatory assault dishonestly floating on the ideals of waging holy war.

Such retaliation is resorted to these days by the global anti-Muslim axis in the name of War against terrorism, Action/reaction pogroms,etc.

[Grayson]

There's a difference between self-defense and feeling upset/enraged/persecuted/overly-sensitive/paranoid.
I'm not going to indulge further in conspiracy bias and continue on these specific aguments as I'll be repeating views I've already stated.
I just hope that no ones boiling with such confrontational and violent tendencies to actually believe brutally hacking someone to death is acceptable retaliation in this day and age.
No matter how badly you're wronged. All it would show is you've became what you hate in your enemy.

[shapur]

Brother Grayson,
I have chimed into this mainly because I got the feeling that you believe that this attitude of retaliation is unique to Muslims alone. Whereas its the order of the day more in the non-Muslim world. The US's act of hunting down whole nations in the guise of going after the"terrorists", the Jews act of striking and regressing a whole nation by 20 years in retaliation for the loss of ONE soldier, the Indian's baying for the blood of Afzal Guru, Ajmal Kasab and now, in fact, every criminal- rapists, killers, corrupt leaders,etc. Yesterday's news of the brutal assault of a Pak prisoner in retaliation for sarabjit's death is the latest case in point.
You must understand that even though Islam through the Quran advocates equal retaliation, there is the element of forgiveness and mercy which is unique only to Islamic jurisprudence and theres no such provision in any other legal system in the world.
It is pertinent to note that wherever the Quran mentions punishments, that verse ends with a clause for forgiveness. A look at a few of those verses :
1)"Eye for an eye, nose for a nose,ear for a ear,tooth for tooth,and wounds equal for equal.But if anyone remits the retaliation by way of charity, its an act of atonement for himself"( 5:45)
2)"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you....and slay them wherever you catch them and turn them out from wherever they have turned you out for persecution is worse than slaughter..........but if they cease then Allah is oft-forgiving, most merciful" ( 2: 190-191)
3):As for the man who steals and woman who steals cut off the hand of either of them in requital for what they have done as a deterrent ordained by God for God is almighty, wise. But as for him who repents after having done wrong and makes amends, behold Allah will accept his repentance" (5:48)
And then theres Chapter 2 verse 24 which talks about punishment for those who slander against chaste women.
But the most towering of all which truly depicts the magnanimity and graciousness of Allah is the forgiveness even for those who wage a war against Allah and His messenger ( Chapter 5, verse 34)

Hence the punishments ordained in the Quran which may appear strict are more as a deterrent to man in the way a teacher deters a student from doing wrong and not in the spirit of raw vengeance which we see in the world today.

[Adam]

@GM

The people responsible for this horrendous act should be hacked to death and denied a place of burial.

I respect your anger.
Just so that you know, the people responsible for this "horrendous" act were friends of YOUR best friends Anajmi and Muslim First, the Wahabis.
P.S - The Bohras weren't involved, just in case you were dying to bring them into this whole scenario.

[Grayson]

Shapur,

It's not retaliation (in self-defense) I'm against. It's unnecessary brutality.
There's nothing you've pointed out I've disagreed with. Perhaps it's the interpretation of how one's allowed to respond.
Does the Quran say hacking someone to pieces and denying them a place of burial is allowed?
On the contrary you should be better than your enemies. Not violently respond as judge, jury and executioner.
Please point out where I've disagreed with Qisas, as I believe in it if it's carried out lawfully.

[shapur]

Shapur,

It's not retaliation (in self-defense) I'm against. It's unnecessary brutality.
There's nothing you've pointed out I've disagreed with. Perhaps it's the interpretation of how one's allowed to respond.
Does the Quran say hacking someone to pieces and denying them a place of burial is allowed?
On the contrary you should be better than your enemies. Not violently respond as judge, jury and executioner.
Please point out where I've disagreed with Qisas, as I believe in it if it's carried out lawfully.

Brother, if you believe in the law of qisas then you will agree that if "unnecessary brutality" is perpetrated then its legal as per sharia to retaliate with "unnecessary brutality" . And mind you, thats primarily to deter the recurrence of such "unnecessary brutality" and not as a vengeance. So your ire, if at all, has to be prima facie directed at the perpetrators of such brutality rather than the the retaliators.

Its because of the long view and divine wisdom of the sharia, that the Islamic sharia-governed countries are 100% crime-free which is unthinkable in ANY OTHER nation.

[Grayson]

An eye for an eye doesn't mean hack away inhumanely. When you choose to exercise capital punishment there should be no suffering or malicious intent involved.
As for the second part: you're joking, right? The sharia isn't an issue so much as the people enforcing them, particularly those that decide to take matters in their own hands.

[anajmi]

We should remember that the idols of Adam (the bohra leadership, the dai and his henchmen) have done similar things in the past. They have desecrated graves of people just like the people in Syria.

[MunkirNakir]

We should remember that the idols of Adam (the bohra leadership, the dai and his henchmen) have done similar things in the past. They have desecrated graves of people just like the people in Syria.

very true, how can we forget how many graves are destroyed in Ahmedabad....

[Grayson]

as has been done in certain qabrastans of India and Yemen.
should it matter who the assailants or victims are?
respond through a process of what's just, not barbaric. I also feel it's important to be mindful of the situation around you before getting caught up in a frenzy.

[JC]

Grayson,

We also have to remember one golden rule - Loha Lohay Ko Kat-ta Hay - if we always decide NOT to repay in same coin, it will not work.