Ramadan Calculation Method?-cont.

[Muslim First]

Even though "Ramadan Calculation Method?" is inactive, BJ is continues to battle by PM
viewtopic.php?p=114637#p114624


Post from GM
Br Anajmi and Br Porus
Can we now put rest of this ongoing in circle debate.
Most of the intelligent people make their point and move on and both of you made your points, now keep on dragging does not help in any way. After you made your points please rest it if people want to change based on your logic, well and good but please do not keep on dragging it to the point where it becomes boring
RAMDAN KAREEMi

My PM to Br SBM
Issue is very important. Majority of Muslim including Shia follow moon sighting formula except Mustali Ismalis. Nizari Ismali do not fast anyway.

So I am pulling my hair for last few days, why is this despirity? 2:184 uses Fixed correctly. Then why Prophet fasted using moon sighting? He fasted 29 or 30 days as per moon sighting.
Did he not understand 2:184?

After much study I found out the following;
Fasting for Muslim was ordained gradually, starting from 2 AH. ( read note in Maudidi's translation)
Aya 2:183-184 were abrogated.. Aya 2:185 is operative for Muslims.
And therefore Shia and Sunni Muslim observe Ramadan as per moon Sighting.
Also read Ibn katheer's Tafseer on 2:183-185.

List of Abrogated Ayas you will find it here
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Abrog ... the_Qur'an

Tafseer Ibn Katheer , you will find it here
http://abdurrahman.org/qurantafseer/ibnkathir/
Go to index of subjects for Sura 2
Go down to (Things) and then to (The order to Fast)
You will find Abrogation of 2:183-184 here in tafseer

Towards understanding Quran (Tafheem Quran) by Maudidi, you will find it here
http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php
Read notes 183 onwards

Being on this forum has given me oppurtinity to study Quran and Ahadith. It has proven one point and that is to not be misled by Mulla's And Maulvis. Iqra that is read and of course understand is operative word for me.

Wasalaam and Ramadan Kareem


Response by PM From BJ

How much Islamic Maudidi was - a Google search will reveal. All above Sunni historians are untrustworthy.

Nevertheless, lets assume their above incorrect and false hypothesis as correct (assume) - then come to 2:185 - refer to your Sahih translation or from Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation - all say the same "PRESCRIBED PERIOD" for Ramdaan.

The word PRESCRIBED can only be used when the referred period is fixed. So days of Ramdaan have to be always constant.

My PM to BJ

I have written to you that you can fast only in month of Ramadan
That means Ramadan starts
either by looking at hilal or if unable to see hilal then count 30 days of preceding month and begin fasting
Ramadaan ends
Again by sighting Hilal or if unable to see hilal than complete fasting 30 days
This was Prophets and Hz Ali's practice, proven by prophetic Hadth

Here is Shakir's translation and comments by Ali, Pooya, all Shias

[Shakir 2:184] For a certain number of days; but whoever among you is sick or on a journey, then (he shall fast) a (like) number of other days; and those who are not able to do it may effect a redemption by feeding a poor man; so whoever does good spontaneously it is better for him; and that you fast is better for you if you know.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 2:184]
Fasting is prescribed "for a certain number of days" - and as per the next verse they are the days of the month of Ramadan. The deeper benefits of fasting are gained when one is in good health. However, both in sickness and travel, these benefits are unlikely to be realised, therefore, exemption from fasting is provided, but a number of other days should be selected to fast in lieu of the obligatory fasts that have not been observed due to sickness or travel, and also a redemption (fidyah) should be effected by feeding a poor man for every missed fast. Aged people, nursing mothers and other cases in which the health is sure to be harmed by fasting can forego fasting altogether, but feed the poor instead, giving away the equivalent of one man's food daily for each fast missed.

It is better to fast as well as feed the poor to obtain a greater return from Allah. The fidyah is a concession allowed to the sick and the old but if they know the deeper benefits of fasting they must fast instead of availing the concession. The Holy Prophet and the holy Imams used to give away whatever they had in the way of Allah but in the month of Ramadan, they were more liberal and open-handed, because the month of Ramadan is the month of Allah.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Yutiquna means the ability to do something with great difficulty. The old and the sick come in this category. It is unreasonable to say that "so whoever witness this month (Ramadan) shall fast in it" (see next verse) cancels this passage. According to the holy Ahl ul Bayt this passage has not been abrogated. Tawaqa means ability with hardship, and tawa-a means ability with ease. This subtle difference was pointed out by Imam Jafar bin Muhammad al Sadiq. This passage applies to those who are able to fast but due to some weakness it is very difficult for them to do so.

So according to Pooya RhA "This passage applies to those who are able to fast but due to some weakness it is very difficult for them to do so"

So real message of 2:184 is to fast in Ramadan as per 2:185 and make up fast for those in difficulty

Now please return back to Ibadat in month of Ramadaan instead of doing Fitna

[Muslim First]

More PM from BJ

The orbit of Moon is FIX. Should 2:184 (per you) was cancelled by 2:185 - then also for pervious time the days were fix/constant. If 2:185 became effective then also the orbit of moon has not changed.

Previously when 2:184 was active - then how people use to do fast for fix number of days? Why will Prophet s.a.w.w. will change this practice?

And 2:185 says same word "PRESCRIBED PERIOD" - where was it prescribed? What is the prescribed period? Answer is in 2:184 - that is the prescribed period = fix number of days.

So only Bohra maslaq are in compliance with the 2:185 and 2:183/84. And Sunni's are acting against the command of 2:185 thus they are astray and only Bohras is the only correct and true Islam.

Mr. MF, make your argument stronger. If you cannot then have courage to accept the truth.

Per Quran: the orbit of Moon is fix. Thus if a wise person with thorough knowledge of moon with good visibility like Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. when he will cite the moon; he will not make mistake.

Because the orbit are fix so Ramdan or any month have always to be fix. The cyclical effect will always be same.

This proves all non-Bohras are astray.

Prove by proof, with strength of argument and not by just abusing "ignorant" remarks as face saving for you. Be courageous, accept that your non-Bohra faith is mistaken. And proselyte to Fatimi Dawat.

You never addressed my question to you and you will never address it.

Did prophet always fast 30 days in Ramadaan?

Do not dance around like Hijda, face up and answer

Badwords! This is true hallmark of miyabhai!

Yes Prophet s.a.w.w. always without fail observed only 30 fasts in month of Ramdaan. Disprove if you can?

Prophet alwas observed Ramadan as per Hilal sighting

Yes, I agree to it completely. This is 100% true.

Citing moon will always ends up in 30days of month because the orbit of moon are fix as per Quran. So Prophet s.a.w.w. will always do fix number of fasts in Ramadan.

This is one of the most CATEGORICAL PROOF that all non-Bohras are astray. So my friend see the truth - see that Prophet by citing moon always did fix number of fasts in Ramadan.

Prophet cited moon always correctly and us humans generally err so Prophet has always FIX number of days for Ramadan and your sect always have variable days.

CITING MOON FOR DECIDING DAYS = FIX NUMBER OF DAYS ALWAYS: BECAUSE THE ORBIT OF MOON IS FIX.

[ghulam muhammed]

Post from GM

Br Anajmi and Br Porus

Can we now put rest of this ongoing in circle debate.

Most of the intelligent people make their point and move on and both of you made your points, now keep on dragging does not help in any way. After you made your points please rest it if people want to change based on your logic, well and good but please do not keep on dragging it to the point where it becomes boring

RAMDAN KAREEMi

Bro MF,

This is not my post, I think you have wrongly typed GM instead of SBM.

[Muslim First]

Yes Prophet s.a.w.w. always without fail observed only 30 fasts in month of Ramdaan. Disprove if you can?

There are no records of which Ramadaan was 29 or 30
But here are Ahadith of Prophet


From: http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/sunnah ... 1.sbt.html
Book of Fast

Volume 3, Book 31, Number 130:
Narrated Abdullah bin Umar:

Allah's Apostle mentioned Ramadan and said, "Do not fast unless you see the crescent (of Ramadan), and do not give up fasting till you see the crescent (of Shawwal), but if the sky is overcast (if you cannot see it), then act on estimation (i.e. count Sha'ban as 30 days)."
-----------------------------------------------------
Volume 3, Book 31, Number 131:
Narrated Abdullah bin Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "The month (can be) 29 nights (i.e. days), and do not fast till you see the moon, and if the sky is overcast, then complete Sha'ban as thirty days."

-----------------------------------------------------
Volume 3, Book 31, Number 132:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

The Prophet said, "The month is like this and this," (at the same time he showed the fingers of both his hands thrice) and left out one thumb on the third time.

Let me explain this for BJ
Prophet said "The month is like this
He showed 2 hands 3 times
This means 30 days
And this
He showed 2 hands 3 times (at the same time he showed the fingers of both his hands thrice) and left out one thumb on the third time.
This means 29 days

-----------------------------------------------------
Volume 3, Book 31, Number 133:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet or Abu-l-Qasim said, "Start fasting on seeing the crescent (of Ramadan), and give up fasting on seeing the crescent (of Shawwal), and if the sky is overcast (and you cannot see it), complete thirty days of Sha'ban."
-----------------------------------------------------
Volume 3, Book 31, Number 134:

Narrated Um Salama:

The Prophet vowed to keep aloof from his wives for a period of one month, and after the completion of 29 days he went either in the morning or in the afternoon to his wives. Someone said to him "You vowed that you would not go to your wives for one month." He replied, "The month is of 29 days."

This hadith is proof that this Ramadan had 29 days
-----------------------------------------------------
Volume 3, Book 31, Number 137:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

The Prophet said, "We are an illiterate nation; we neither write, nor know accounts. The month is like this and this, i.e. sometimes of 29 days and sometimes of thirty days."

-----------------------

Please BJ
Let us end this after this proof
Wasalaam and Ramadan Kareem

[Muslim First]

Post from GM

Br Anajmi and Br Porus

Can we now put rest of this ongoing in circle debate.

Most of the intelligent people make their point and move on and both of you made your points, now keep on dragging does not help in any way. After you made your points please rest it if people want to change based on your logic, well and good but please do not keep on dragging it to the point where it becomes boring

RAMDAN KAREEMi

Bro MF,

This is not my post, I think you have wrongly typed GM instead of SBM.

I am sorry
It was from Br AZ
JAK

[Muslim First]

I live in Western suburb of Boston.
Bohras whose Markaz is in Billirica will celebrate Eid today (Wednesday)
Those who follow Fiqh Council will celebrate Eid tomorrow (Thursday)
Those who follow actual moon sighting will probably celebrate Eid on Friday.

Eid Mubarak to all

[Muslim First]

As per Moon sighting committee
Hilal was sighted in Texas therefore
All Sunni Masajids will celebrate Eid on Thursday , 8th.
Eid Mubarak to all

[zinger]

Muslim First, Anajmi and all other Sunni Muslim and non-Bohra friends and participants on this site, wish you all Idd Mubarak in advance

[Muslim First]

Idd Mubarak to you too brother

All Masajids in Massachusetts are celebrating Eid today, that is Thursday. Hilal was sighted in Texas last evening.
This is correct as per Sunnah of Prophet.
Hilal was not sighted anywhere in North America on Tuesday. Therefore Wednesday was day of fasting for us Muslims.
Allaho Aalim
Wasalaam

[Muslim First]

Adam posted

And you seem to have avoided the whole discussion about the TENTHS, proving that Ramadan cannot be other than 30 days.

Shaikh Adam Saheb
AS

Quran and Ahadith as quoted here is proof plenty
For majority of Muslim including Shia follow Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet and sight Hilal.

There is no proof that Prophet followed fixed 30 days Ramadaan.
Read Ahadith posted above.

Even Hidden imam porus has no defense.
Please quote Hadith of Prophet dividing Ramadaan in tents.

Wasalaam

[Muslim First]

Adam Saheb

I did little research for you

Here is part of Hadith

Thereupon we said: ‘O Messenger of Allāh, not all of us possess the means whereby we can provide enough for a fasting person to break his fast” The Messenger of Allah (upon him blessings and peace) replied: “Allah grants this same reward to him who gives a fasting person a single date or a drink of water or a sip of milk to break the fast. This is a month, the first part of which brings Allah’s mercy, the middle of which brings His forgiveness and the last part of which brings emancipation from the fire of Jahannum (Hell). Whosoever lessens the burden of his servants (bondsmen) in this month, Allāh will forgive him and free him from the fire of Jahannam.”

The third part calls for releasing or lessening burden on servants ( you could including Abde followers)
Your cult should free Abdes.

No where it says tengths

Here is link, pleas study it carefully

Research on the Hadith of Ramadan and its Three Parts
By Bilal Ali
http://www.ilmgate.org/research-on-the- ... ree-parts/

[Adam]

@MF
Read this site:
http://www.onislam.net/english/reading- ... mercy.html
&
http://www.islamicfinder.org/articles/a ... php?id=357

Talks about the first TEN and last TEN Days of Ramadan.


Lailatul Qadr appears in the LAST TEN DAYS OF RAMADAN:
http://www.qss.org/articles/ramadan/8.html

Quoting for SUNNI Books:
Al-Bukhari and Muslim record from 'Aishah that during the last ten days of Ramadan, the Messenger of Allah would wake his wives up during the night and then remain apart from them (that is, being busy in acts of worship). A narration in Muslim states: "He would strive [to do acts of worship] during the last ten days of Ramadan more than he would at any other time."


Conclusion:
Ramadan is divided into 3 parts of TEN.
If not, how would you know when the last TEN days start unless your month was pre-fixed.
If your month was fixed at 29, the last ten days would begin from the 19-20th.
If your month was 30 days, it would start from the 20-21st day.

[Muslim First]

Adam

I have posted Ahadith of Prophet saying Ramadan could be 30 or 29 days depending sighting of Hilal.

Hadith quoting last 10 days means as follows

Prophet will start serious about night prayers starting on 21st day. If hilal is sighted on 29 th day than last 10 days are only 9 days. In Prophets time astronomy was not that advanced so sighting of hilal and completing 30 days in case of cloudy condition was prevailing method.

Bohras may fix Ramadan to 30 days but like this year they started in wrong month. And that is fact. Read Porus's Walwalo.

[Adam]

Bohras may fix Ramadan to 30 days but like this year they started in wrong month. And that is fact. Read Porus's Walwalo.

Wrong.
It's actally the Saudis that realized their mistake, because the Full Moon was seen on the 12th or 13th of the Month. Whereas it should've been on the 15th like the Bohras.

[Adam]

You said:

Prophet will start serious about night prayers starting on 21st day. If hilal is sighted on 29 th day than last 10 days are only 9 days.

But the SUNNI quote from Aisha I quoted says:

"He would strive [to do acts of worship] during the last ten days of Ramadan more than he would at any other time."

It doesn't say 9 days anywhere.

You said:

In Prophets time astronomy was not that advanced so sighting of hilal

Rasulullah SAW is the final messenger of Allah. His era may have been backward, but his knowledge superseded the entire human race for generations to come. He knew exactly what he was doing. And he fasted 30 days.
Don't insult OUR prophet next time. Or admin should ban you. (But he wont, because he created this forum to Insult Islam and its Prophets, and allows such discussions.)

[Muslim First]

As per Islam
Ramadan starts with sighting of hilal and ends with sighting of Hilal or completing 30 days if it is not possible to sight Hilal.

There are plenty of Ahadith as posted by me saying Ramadan can be 30 or 29

Prophet even showed by showing 10 fingers 3 times and showing 10 fingers twice and 9 fingers once

Ignorant people do not have capacity to understand even this.

End of discussion.

BJ is lier and cheater and he should post all Sunni shia issue in Islam section so we can deal with him.

BTW this site is not your fathers property.

Wasalaam

[Adam]

Prophet even showed by showing 10 fingers 3 times and showing 10 fingers twice and 9 fingers once

Never heard this quote, nor do Fatemi sources accept it as valid.
IF this was an authentic hadith, then technically you'll should ONLY do 29 Rozas and not even think about doing 28 or 30.

P.S - This forum may not be my fathers, but it claims to be a "Muslim" site, but sadly, insults on the Prophet of Islam are allowed and cheered.

[BlackSaya]

I have been taking great interest in this thread as well as the one on the main board. A few thoughts:

1) It has been stated, and actually proven through science that Bohras in the east started Ramadan BEFORE the new moon had even risen. Given that we all agree that the Islamic month begins with the new moon, it is safe to say that Bohras have failed the 1st principal here.

2) Layl-utul-Qadr is actually found in the last 10 NIGHTS (not days), and its one of the odd nights. Therefore, simple logic, it has to be on the 21st, 23rd, 25th, 27th, or 29th NIGHT. Therefore, even if the month is 29 or 30, those nights are still the same.

3) The Quran nor Hadith specify 30. If Allah (swt) wanted 30, He or the Prophet (saw) would have said "DO IT FOR 30 DAYS" explicitly. Anything beyond this is just conjecture and people who want 30 try to justify it in any way they can (even though SCIENCE and LOGIC would say otherwise).

4) Adam claims that the Prophet (saw) is being dis-respected. How so? He should look in his own Masjids (rather Temples), where there is rarely any mention of the Prophet (saw).

5) I hate Salafis and Wahabbis, but the Saudis would do a huge service to Islam by banning bohras from attending Umrah and Haj. We dont need these Idol/Dai/Imam Husain worshippers near the Holy precincts of the Kaaba. Stick to Taher Saifuddins grave, and enjoy your tawaf and grave worship there.

[Muslim First]

I have been taking great interest in this thread as well as the one on the main board. A few thoughts:

1) It has been stated, and actually proven through science that Bohras in the east started Ramadan BEFORE the new moon had even risen. Given that we all agree that the Islamic month begins with the new moon, it is safe to say that Bohras have failed the 1st principal here.
Correct, any excuse Adam-porus
2) Layl-utul-Qadr is actually found in the last 10 NIGHTS (not days), and its one of the odd nights. Therefore, simple logic, it has to be on the 21st, 23rd, 25th, 27th, or 29th NIGHT. Therefore, even if the month is 29 or 30, those nights are still the same.
Abdes are not that intelligent, they can count only 51, 52, 53

3) The Quran nor Hadith specify 30. If Allah (swt) wanted 30, He or the Prophet (saw) would have said "DO IT FOR 30 DAYS" explicitly. Anything beyond this is just conjecture and people who want 30 try to justify it in any way they can (even though SCIENCE and LOGIC would say otherwise).
Any comment Adam-porus

4) Adam claims that the Prophet (saw) is being dis-respected. How so? He should look in his own Masjids (rather Temples), where there is rarely any mention of the Prophet (saw).

5) I hate Salafis and Wahabbis, but the Saudis would do a huge service to Islam by banning bohras from attending Umrah and Haj. We dont need these Idol/Dai/Imam Husain worshippers near the Holy precincts of the Kaaba. Stick to Taher Saifuddins grave, and enjoy your tawaf and grave worship there.
Muslm should not hate. To dislike is OK

[Muslim First]

Islamic Verdicts - Volume III

The Book Of fasting

A firm decision



The ruling on fasting Ramadhan 28 days

Q: Is it permissible to fast only 28 days for the month of Ramadhan?

A: It is confirmed in the extensive authentic Hadiths from the Messenger of Allah (salallahou 'aleyhi wa salam) that the month is not less than 29 days. When it is confirmed with Islamically valid evidence that the month of Shawwal has entered after the Muslims have only fasted 28 days, this means that they did not fast the first day of Ramadhan. Therefore, they must make up for it, because it is not possible for the month to be 28 days. The month is only 29 or 30 days.

Ash-Shaykh Ibn Baz



Can we fast 31 days?

Q: If we began our fast in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, then we travelled to our country in East Asia during the month of Ramadhan, where the Islamic Hijri month is a day behind, should we fast 31 days?

A: If you fasted in Saudi Arabia or another land, then you fasted the rest of the month in your own land or another place, then break your fast with them (in the last land) even if that is more than 30 days. This is due to the statement of the Prophet (salallahou 'aleyhi wa salam):

"The fast is the day that you all fast and breaking the fast is the day when you all breakfast" (At-Tirmithi no. 697).

However, if you did not complete 29 days, you must complete that (number of fasting days). This is because the month is not less than 29 days.

Ash-Shaykh Ibn Baz



The ruling on always fasting 30 days for Ramadhan

Q: What is the ruling concerning some people who always fast 30 days for Ramadhan?

A: The extensive authentic Hadiths from the Messenger of Allah (salallahou 'aleyhi wa salam), the consensus of the Companions of the Messenger (salallahou 'aleyhi wa salam) and those who followed them in righteousness of the scholars, prove that the month is either 29 or 30 days. So, whoever always fasts it 30 days without looking into the new moons (i.e., sightings), then he has opposed the Sunnah and the consensus (Ijma'), and he has made an innovation in the religion that Allah has not allowed. Allah said: "Follow what has been revealed to you all from your Lord and do not follow any Awliya' (friends, helpers, supporters) besides Him” (Al-A'raf 7: 3).

And He said: "Say (O Muhammad): If you all love Allah, then follow me and Allah will love you and forgive you” (Aal 'Imran 3: 31).

And He said: "Whatever the Messenger (Muhammad) gives you, then take, and whatever he forbids you from, then abstain (from it). And fear Allah. Verily, Allah is severe in punishment” (Al-Hashr 59: 7).

And He, the Mighty and Majestic said: "These are the limits of Allah and whoever obeys Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad), He (Allah) will enter him into gardens with rivers flowing beneath them. They will abide therein forever and that is the supreme success. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad) and transgresses His limits, He (Allah) will enter him into a Fire (Hell) to abide therein forever, and he will have a disgraceful torment” (An-Nisa' 4: 13, 14).

And the Verses with this meaning are numerous. It is recorded in the two Sahihs (of Al-Bukhari and Muslim) in a Hadith from Ibn 'Umar that the Prophet (salallahou 'aleyhi wa salam) said: “ Fast according to its (the new moon's) sighting and break your fast according to its sighting. And if it is hidden from you by clouds, then consider it (i.e., count it as 30 days)” (Al-Bukhari no. 1906 and Muslim no. 1080).

This Hadith is agreed upon and in a version recorded by Muslim he said: “Then consider it to be 30 days" [Muslim no. 1080]. In another wording reported in the Two Sahihs, he (salallahou 'aleyhi wa salam) said: "When you all see the new moon (of Ramadhan), then fast, and whenyou see it (the new moon of Shawwal), then break your fast. And if it is hidden from you by clouds, then consider it 30 days” (Muslim no. 1080).

In Sahih Al-Bukhari it is reported from Abu Hurairah that the Prophet (salallahou 'aleyhi wa salam) said: “Fast according to its sighting and break your fast according to its sighting. And if it is hidden from you by clouds, then fast 30 days” (Al-Bukhari no. 1909).

And in another wording he (salallahou 'aleyhi wa salam) said: "Then complete the number (of days) as 30” (Al-Bukhari no. 1907).

And in yet another wording he (salallahou 'aleyhi wa salam) said:

"Then complete Sha'ban as 30 days." It is also reported from Huthayfah that the Prophet (salallahou 'aleyhi wa salam) said: "Do not fast until you see the new moon (of Ramadhan) or you complete the number (as 30 days). And do not break your fast until you see the new moon (of Shawwal) or you complete the number (as 30 days)."

This was recorded by Abu Dawud and An-Nasa'i with an authentic chain of narration. It has also been confirmed from him (salallahou 'aleyhi wa salam) in a number of Hadiths that he (salallahou 'aleyhi wa salam) said: "Verily, the month is 29 days, so do not fast until you see the new moon, and do not break the fast until you see the new moon. And if it is hidden from you by clouds, then complete the number (as 30days)" [Ad-Dawud no. 2326. and An-Nasa'i' no. 2128]

And it has been confirmed from him (salallahou 'aleyhi wa salam) that he said: “The month is like this, and this and this," and he raised his ten fingers, and he withdrew his thumb the third time. Then he said: "The month is like this, and this and this," with his ten fingers, and he did not withdraw his thumb at all.

In doing this, he (salallahou 'aleyhi wa salam) was alluding to the fact that sometimes it is 30 days and sometimes it is 29 days. Indeed the people of knowledge and faith from the Companions of the Prophet (salallahou 'aleyhi wa salam) and those who followed them in righteousness have met these Hadiths with acceptance and submission, and they acted according to their dictates. Thus, they would look for the new moon of Sha'ban, Ramadhan and Shawwal, and they would act according to what the evidence testified to of completing the month (i.e., 30 days) or shortening it (i.e., 29 days). Therefore, it is obligatory upon all the Muslims to traverse upon this straight path and abandon whatever opposes it from the opinions of people and what they have introduced of innovations. In this way, they will be members of those whom Allah has promised them Paradise and pleasure in His Statement: "And the foremost to embrace Islam of the Muhajirun (those who migrated from Makkah to Al-Madinah) and the Ansar (the citizens of Al-Madinah who helped the Muhajirun) and also those who followed them in righteousness (in faith). Allah is pleased with them and they are phased with Him. He has prepared for them gardens with rivers flowing beneath them. They will dwell therein forever. That is the supreme success" (At-Tawbah 9: 100).

Ash-Shaykh Ibn Baz
http://alfatihoun.edaama.org/Fatawas/En ... Four2a.htm

[badrijanab]

@Muslim First sahib, all what you wrote to justify your incorrect Islamic practices are against Quran.

The simple fact is: Quran states, the cycle/orbit of Moon and Sun is fixed. Hence the number of days in any month (cyclical effect) will always by default will be fix. thus, number of total days in month of Ramdaan will always be constant/fixed. So almost all non-Bohras sect are proven not in compliance with Quran meaning they all are astray from siraat-a-mustaqeem.

Lastly, when Allah commands in tone of compulsion about fast he said in one aayat, "observe two months fast i.e. SIXTY days" - both quantity are categorically stated by Allah in Quran. Fasting in Ramdaan to is compulsory on every normal mumineen, by above aayat it can be associated that number of compulsory fasting days in month of Ramdan is thirty.


Has Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. or his authorised representative said that 2:184 is null and void? Prove? Couple of decade back Sunni's Maududi to cover their faith declared in his subjective commentary on Quran that 2:184 is void. He do not quote any source or proof! But this is why and how these people unscientific maslaq runs.

[Muslim First]

BJ

I had enough of this nuttiness.
It is difficult to argue with a nut.
Lets end it.
You and your pristine Bohra religion can go on fasting for 30 days.

[Muslim First]

Has Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. or his authorised representative said that

The Prophet was Prophet of Islam.

Not owner of Hardware store called 'Islam'

So after his Wafat nobody owns this store and there are no authorized representative.

Who is your authorized representative.?

[badrijanab]

@MF sahab,

You are defeated, I extend my sympathy to you. Your acquired little bit honesty is accepting Quranic evidence I presented, still you will not proselyte into Imaani-noor of Bohra maslaq from dungeon of your dark faith. The reason is Allah has sealed your heart, you will not accept the truthfulness of Bohra maslaq (= Islam). Or may be you can repent your sins to Almighty and he forgives you and pave your way into rightful Imaan of Bohra maslaq.

[BlackSaya]

The simple fact is: Quran states, the cycle/orbit of Moon and Sun is fixed. Hence the number of days in any month (cyclical effect) will always by default will be fix. thus, number of total days in month of Ramdaan will always be constant/fixed. So almost all non-Bohras sect are proven not in compliance with Quran meaning they all are astray from siraat-a-mustaqeem.[/quote]


Sorry, I still do not see the number 30. Yes, the cycle of the Moon is fixed at 29.5 days, therefore a month can either be 29 or 30. The fact that your Misri calender has to add a day into ZilHuj every 4 years, would mean in that year, your calender has 3 straight months of 30 days. This is not possible as per fixed cycle/orbit of the moon.

Again, if Allah (swt) wanted 30 days, HE or the Prophet (saw) would have said "DO IT FOR 30 DAYS". In everything else in the Quran or Hadith, numbers are mentioned. For example, inheritance, zakat, khums, number of prayers, tawaf around the kaaba...i could go on and on.

The fact that the number "30" is not mentioned at all in Quran or Hadith, speaks volumes. One can use logical reasoning to determine that Allah (swt) knew full well that Ramadan could be either 29 or 30 days.

If you want to do it for 30 days, so be it. But realize that sometimes (like this year), you will have started Ramadan when the new moon has not even been born, and that you may celebrate Eid before the moon has completed its cycle. What this proves is that your pristine sect is astray from siraat-a-mustaqeem, since you start Ramadan before the end of the lunar month of Shahban! You have failed the very first principal regarding Islamic months. So, really your other points don't even matter, since you have failed at the very first point.

[Muslim First]

@MF sahab,

You are defeated, I extend my sympathy to you. Your acquired little bit honesty is accepting Quranic evidence I presented, still you will not proselyte into Imaani-noor of Bohra maslaq from dungeon of your dark faith. The reason is Allah has sealed your heart, you will not accept the truthfulness of Bohra maslaq (= Islam). Or may be you can repent your sins to Almighty and he forgives you and pave your way into rightful Imaan of Bohra maslaq.

Give me name and address of authorized representative of Bohra maslaq (=Islam) and I will go to his door and become Bohri.

[badrijanab]

@MF sahab,

You are defeated, I extend my sympathy to you. Your acquired little bit honesty is accepting Quranic evidence I presented, still you will not proselyte into Imaani-noor of Bohra maslaq from dungeon of your dark faith. The reason is Allah has sealed your heart, you will not accept the truthfulness of Bohra maslaq (= Islam). Or may be you can repent your sins to Almighty and he forgives you and pave your way into rightful Imaan of Bohra maslaq.

Give me name and address of authorized representative of Bohra maslaq (=Islam) and I will go to his door and become Bohri.

Son of Ameer al mumineen Mola Ali a.s. and Fatima bint Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. i.e. Imam uz zaman a.s. is presently in concealment and only selected people can meet him. So you can tender your "bayt" (misaaq) to Imam-uz-zaman via any common Bohra mumin. Allah know everything in your heart. He is closer to you than your jugular vein.

Sunni requirement for Imaan: agreeing by words.
Ithna Asheri: agreeing by words and acting likewise.
Fatimi Dawat: agreeing by words, acting likewise and also having "niyyat" likewise.

Basic fundamental concept of "Imaan" - of Non-DB are severely flawed. This also is one of the clear symbol that all non-Bohras are astray from Islam and only Bohras = Islam.

[BlackSaya]

Bohras cant even get the start of the holy month of Ramadan right.

Therefore, bohras are astray from Islam.

[Muslim First]

Son of Ameer al mumineen Mola Ali a.s. and Fatima bint Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.w. i.e. Imam uz zaman a.s. is presently in concealment and only selected people can meet him.

This is how goes fairy tail and will go on ta quyamat.

[badrijanab]

Bohras cant even get the start of the holy month of Ramadan right.

Therefore, bohras are astray from Islam.

Prove your above incorrect contention from Quran? Can you? You cannot, because all non-Bohras are not in compliance with Quran.

You can declare yourself as God. But does that make you one? Mr./Mrs./others Black Saya- Prove from Quran.

Quran says: Orbit/Cycle of Moon and Sun = the calendar all months/days will always be fixed. All Non Bohras have non fix days = they all are astray.