How can a Shia draw closure?

[juzerali]

After Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) passed away, Ahlul Bayt faced numerous hardships. Ameeril Mumineen was forced into recluse. Although the case of Ali is disputed, even if we accept Rashidun Caliphates, things seems but bleak after Muhammed. Ali was confronted by Muawiyah and deserted by the Kharijites and his forces were subdued. Imam Hassan was forced to concede Caliphate to Muawiyah. Imam Hussein was massacred by Yazeed's army. Imams after Hussein, though enjoyed a Golden Age of Islam, they also had to go in hiding, whether be Sevener, or Twelver or Ismaili.

If I were to read the history of Islam without anticipation and in chronological order, it seems that after the death of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH), I would have waited and waited and waited. Battle after battle, struggle after struggle, I would have hoped that probably this will bring glory to the house of Muhammed. But it never came, until last of progeny of Muhammed was obscured. One event after another, what they received was only treachery and deception.

This sometimes leads me to believe how can I say Allah Ho Akbar? How can I say God is greatest? When not even 50 years passed after Muhammed, blood of his progeny was spilled unabashed. What further desolates me is the fact that Yazeed continued to rule after massacring Imam Hussein, and was replaced only by Abbasids, who again did not bring any more honor to Islam than Umayyads did.

As we see present state of the world, the most powerful forces are that of atheist's. Half of Middle East is pawn of United States and the other half is marginalized by it. It feels like Islam never had conclusive and comprehensive victory over the perpetrators. I am confused what to conclusions to draw out of it?

Some people say that the incident of Karbala has immortalized Islam, but I don't get it how could it would have been any more different if Imama Hussain was not martyred in Karbala. The power was not overthrown, or not replaced by a legitimate one.

I am not denying the existence and supremacy of God, but I am putting forth my confusion and raising a question of which I feel entitled to receive an answer.

[محمد]

Karbala just shows three things.

1) Immense love for ALLAH and his PROPHET SUNNAH.
2)Trust on ALLAH in every situation.
3)courage to stand against corruption and opesssor even if life is on threat.

and this is how ISLAM was saved, if some todays Muslim posses these Qualities.

[sixfeetunder]

After Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) passed away, Ahlul Bayt faced numerous hardships. Ameeril Mumineen was forced into recluse. Although the case of Ali is disputed, even if we accept Rashidun Caliphates, things seems but bleak after Muhammed. Ali was confronted by Muawiyah and deserted by the Kharijites and his forces were subdued. Imam Hassan was forced to concede Caliphate to Muawiyah. Imam Hussein was massacred by Yazeed's army. Imams after Hussein, though enjoyed a Golden Age of Islam, they also had to go in hiding, whether be Sevener, or Twelver or Ismaili.

If I were to read the history of Islam without anticipation and in chronological order, it seems that after the death of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH), I would have waited and waited and waited. Battle after battle, struggle after struggle, I would have hoped that probably this will bring glory to the house of Muhammed. But it never came, until last of progeny of Muhammed was obscured. One event after another, what they received was only treachery and deception.

The entire history of Islam reiterates what the Qur'an has to say about this world and it's temporary nature. Right from the time of the Prophets of yore to Muhammad, Ali, Hussain and his progeny, the struggle for establishing God's religion on Earth has been a continuous, unending endeavour and will remain so. The struggle will go on and the story will continue.

Glory came to the house of Muhammad but not in the form of temporal power or material wealth. It came through their unending zeal for truth, justice, establishing right and forbidding evil. Their personalities became a beacon of light for the seekers of truth. They themselves were 'glorious' in whatever they did for Islam. They did not waver from Islamic principles. For instance, Imam Ali did not compromise Islam for temporal power. The worshipers of this world may term this tendency as a 'weakness' Muawiya's sly manoeuvers may be seen as 'clever politics'; but the aim of Prophets and Imams was never mere political or temporal power.

This sometimes leads me to believe how can I say Allah Ho Akbar? How can I say God is greatest? When not even 50 years passed after Muhammed, blood of his progeny was spilled unabashed. What further desolates me is the fact that Yazeed continued to rule after massacring Imam Hussein, and was replaced only by Abbasids, who again did not bring any more honor to Islam than Umayyads did.

Had it not been for these personalities, we would not have been blessed by such great examples. The seekers of truth would have been disappointed not to find examples like Imam Ali. Those Muslims who killed Imam Hussain are now hated by the Muslim ummah, while those who supported him are much loved. Those who spilled his blood, did gain power for a few years but it established the fact that the Prophet's grandson would not give in to the status quo and reaffirmed the Prophet's mission on Earth; the mission that was a spiritual one at the core.

As we see present state of the world, the most powerful forces are that of atheist's. Half of Middle East is pawn of United States and the other half is marginalized by it. It feels like Islam never had conclusive and comprehensive victory over the perpetrators. I am confused what to conclusions to draw out of it?

Some people say that the incident of Karbala has immortalized Islam, but I don't get it how could it would have been any more different if Imama Hussain was not martyred in Karbala. The power was not overthrown, or not replaced by a legitimate one.

I am not denying the existence and supremacy of God, but I am putting forth my confusion and raising a question of which I feel entitled to receive an answer.

Rewind the clock by about 500 years and the middle east was different, Atheists were not a very powerful force and United States was not the Big Brother. Muslims were a major political power to reckon with.

Fast forward 500 years from now and who knows what the scene will be like! My point is that the world keeps on changing. It is in it's nature to change. The event of Karbala just reiterated the Prophet's stand. It showed us what the Prophet's mission was. If there was no Karbala, people could easily say that Khilafat was ordained by the Prophet and conquering the world was the Prophet's mission. His mission was to conquer hearts, not mere land!

I hope my answer has been useful to you in some way or the other!

[anajmi]

If there was no Karbala, people could easily say that Khilafat was ordained by the Prophet

And we would've called them "shia" too!!

[sixfeetunder]

If there was no Karbala, people could easily say that Khilafat was ordained by the Prophet

And we would've called them "shia" too!!

Yeah, the "Shia" of Muawiya, Yazid and company! Those "shia" are available today too. They are popularly known as "Wahhabis".

[anajmi]

Which means Karbala actually did nothing right?

[Muslim First]

And we would've called them "shia" too!!

Yeah, the "Shia" of Muawiya, Yazid and company! Those "shia" are available today too. They are popularly known as "Wahhabis".

Do Wahabi hate Ahl e Bait?
Or
Hate "Shia obsessed with Ahl e Bait"?

Do u believe

Sunnis are "Shia" of Muawiya, Yazid and company?

[Muslim First]

Some people say that the incident of Karbala has immortalized Islam, but I don't get it how could it would have been any more different if Imama Hussain was not martyred in Karbala. The power was not overthrown, or not replaced by a legitimate one.

If Karbala did not happen

There would have been no reason for Shia-Sunni divide.

The power was not overthrown,
Correct

or not replaced by a legitimate one.
Islam was not Prophet SAW's personal property.
If it was it would have been written in Quran. Or there would have been clear Aya stating "Ummah will be led by Ahl e Bait"
Or
Prophet would have declared Hz Ali in his farewell Khutba.

Can anybody discuss why not?

[Muslim First]

Deleted
Repeat post

[hsnhussain]

As we see present state of the world, the most powerful forces are that of atheist's. Half of Middle East is pawn of United States and the other half is marginalized by it.

Believe me friend, Atheist are the minority throughout the world with least power. And if you are pointing that America is an Atheist state, you are mistaken . Hardly 1% of Americans are Atheist. We can’t even openly come out as atheist. Kindly rephrase your statement and keep Atheist out of this .

[Starwars]

Some people say that the incident of Karbala has immortalized Islam, but I don't get it how could it would have been any more different if Imam Hussain was not martyred in Karbala. The power was not overthrown, or not replaced by a legitimate one.

If Karbala did not happen. There would have been no reason for Shia-Sunni divide.
Islam was not Prophet SAW's personal property. If it was it would have been written in Quran. Or there would have been clear Aya stating "Ummah will be led by Ahl e Bait" Or Prophet would have declared Hz Ali in his farewell Khutba. Can anybody discuss why not?

I cannot discuss further but I agree with 'Muslim First' completely. However, some of the stories we have been hearing about the Ashara are very questionable and far fetched. I am entitled to my opinion - hay-na?

[Muslim First]

How can a Shia draw closure?

Either
Sunni stop being Shia of Prophet SAW and become Shia of Ahl e bait ( that is become worshipper of Ahl e Bait)
Fat chance

Or
Shia abandon their Gaib Imaam, Hazir Immam or Imams in Purda etc.
That is also Fat chance.

Only way
Accept Quran and Authentic Sunnah and get along.

[silvertongue]

Only way
Accept Quran and Authentic Sunnah and get along.

“Say: I do not ask you for any reward for it except kindness to my kin” (Holy Qur'an, 42:23)

I am leaving among you the Two Weighty Things: the Book of Allah and my `Itrat (Progeny), my Ahlul Bayt. So long as you (simultaneously) uphold both of them, you will never be misled after me; so, do not go ahead of them else you should perish, and do not lag behind them else you should perish; do not teach them, for they are more knowledgeable than you.

This hadith is recorded in al-Tirmidhi's Sahih, in Muslim's Sahih, in al-Hakim's Mustadrak al-Sahihayn, in Ahmad's Musnad, in al-Nasa'i's Khasais, in Ibn Sa`d's Tabaqat, and by the books of al-Tabrani, al-Suyuti, Ibn Hajar, Ibn al-Athir, and many others [who all are Sunnis]. For the numbers of pages and volumes, refer to page 82 and the pages following it [of the original Arabic text] of the book titled Al-Muraja`at [by Sharafud-Din Sadr ad-Din al-Musawi al-Amili].

Sorry Bro.. Id better stick to Quran and Ahlul Bayt as they are the best ideals to follow the true path of Sunnah as well.. Else, The Hadith says it all.

Jazakallah..

[Muslim First]

Brother
Read following
Shia Scholar Says 75%-80% of Imam Jafar’s (as) Students were Sunni
http://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com ... rs-admits/

Imams of Shias were actually Sunni.

Part 1:The Imams from Ahlebayt whom Shia consider to be their divinely appointed Imams were on the Creed of Ahlesunnah wal Jama’ah
http://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com ... l-jama’ah/

Part 2: The Imams from Ahlebayt whom Shia consider to be their divinely appointed Imams were on the Creed of Ahlesunnah wal Jama’ah.
http://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com ... l-jama’ah/

[Muslim First]

Only way
Accept Quran and Authentic Sunnah and get along.

“Say: I do not ask you for any reward for it except kindness to my kin” (Holy Qur'an, 42:23)

I am leaving among you the Two Weighty Things: the Book of Allah and my `Itrat (Progeny), my Ahlul Bayt. So long as you (simultaneously) uphold both of them, you will never be misled after me; so, do not go ahead of them else you should perish, and do not lag behind them else you should perish; do not teach them, for they are more knowledgeable than you.

This hadith is recorded in al-Tirmidhi's Sahih, in Muslim's Sahih, in al-Hakim's Mustadrak al-Sahihayn, in Ahmad's Musnad, in al-Nasa'i's Khasais, in Ibn Sa`d's Tabaqat, and by the books of al-Tabrani, al-Suyuti, Ibn Hajar, Ibn al-Athir, and many others [who all are Sunnis]. For the numbers of pages and volumes, refer to page 82 and the pages following it [of the original Arabic text] of the book titled Al-Muraja`at [by Sharafud-Din Sadr ad-Din al-Musawi al-Amili].

Sorry Bro.. Id better stick to Quran and Ahlul Bayt as they are the best ideals to follow the true path of Sunnah as well.. Else, The Hadith says it all.

Jazakallah..

Copied from
Hadith About the Quran and Sunnah
http://www.schiiten.com/backup/AhlelBay ... unnah.html

First of all, the Hadith about the Quran and Ahl al-Bayt is not Mutawattir, nor is the Hadith about Quran and Sunnah considered Dhaeef (weak). Instead, both Hadith are of a very similar calibre. Secondly, we have not abandoned the Hadith about Quran and Ahl al-Bayt nor have we replaced it with the other Hadith. Instead, we believe in both Hadith; the Hadith about Quran and Sunnah was said by the Prophet in front of the larger gathering during his Farewell Sermon, and the Hadith about Quran and Ahl al-Bayt was said by the Prophet in front of the smaller gathering at Ghadir Khumm. This second Hadith was directed towards those of Medinah because it was they who would be tasked with the role of caring for the Prophet’s family after his death.

If Hadith al-Thaqalayn meant what the Shia imply, then surely the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) would have said it in front of all the Muslims during his Farewell Sermon. Instead, the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) only said this to those living in the same city as his family, again implying that what he meant was to take care of them. And perhaps the biggest proof is the fact that the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) said the Hadith al-Thaqalayn during his speech at Ghadir Khumm. For those of our readers who have not read our article on Ghadir Khumm, we strongly urge them to read it now: The Sunni Position on Ghadir Kumm.

As we have shown in that article, a group of soldiers were harshly criticizing Ali (رضّى الله عنه) and complaining about him to the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) at the place of Ghadir Khumm. (Please read that article for details and references.) It was in response to this hatred, abuse, and disrespect towards Ali (رضّى الله عنه) that the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) found it necessary to defend his family in the Hadith al-Thaqalayn. This serves as a very strong proof that the meaning behind the Prophet’s words were not about deriving religion from the Ahlel Bayt but rather about behaving with them, taking care of them, honoring them, respecting them, etc.

[Muslim First]

Sorry Bro.. Id better stick to Quran and Ahlul Bayt as they are the best ideals to follow the true path of Sunnah as well.. Else, The Hadith says it all.

Please elaborate

Who is your representative of Ahlul Bayat today?

[silvertongue]

What is your point here brother.

[Muslim First]

What is your point here brother.

Do you have guide from Ahlul Bayat.
What is his name? And address?

[silvertongue]

Well, Im trying my best to find that out coz im from a bohri environment and Alhamdolillah before it got too late eyes opened and realized that community is getting in a wrong path here with all the fake leaders goin all after money.. But surely will try to find it out and soon get back to you..

[Muslim First]

Well, Im trying my best to find that out coz im from a bohri environment and Alhamdolillah before it got too late eyes opened and realized that community is getting in a wrong path here with all the fake leaders goin all after money.. But surely will try to find it out and soon get back to you..

Good luck, don't spend too much time on it. Your Ismaili cousins have a Hazir Imam. Have you ever seen him leading Dua/Salat/Namaz? Owns hotels with Bars and races horses on which people bet and many loose shirt. He is nice guy and good leader and runs excellent social service network. His follower claim he knows Batin of Quran and possesses Quran of Ali with all deleted Ayas and Suras. All without evidence.

Understand Quran from various Shia and Sunni Tafsirs available free on net. Read and understand Ahadith leaving controversial one alone.
Do not waste your time looking for hidden Imam or following Fakers claiming to represent him.
Good luck
Wasalaam