sincere questions to PDB's

[M Taha]

Salaam,

I am not against you guys in fact I support your fight which is based on justice, but I have few questions.

you guys believe in Islam isnt it? shariyat should be your basic principles.

then how come you guys roam around clean shaved and your women is not in hijaab?

why you let your girls enter in masjid without hijaab?

look brother, being modern in thinking is good, but leaving shariyat is not an option for believers.

I firmly believe this movement didnt achive any thing substantial just because you guys have left this basic things.

normal bohri when look at you, your impressions is completely wrong on them, no wonder they wont give any ears to your point, no matter even if your points are valid.

please correct your attire, inshallah

[M Taha]

http://www.udaipurtimes.com/7-couples-w ... community/

how good it would be if these dulaah would be wearing sunnate Muhammed(s), even elders are clean shaved and no alamaat of islaam is on their face.

talking principles and Islam but acting against it wont work, this is the same situation with kothar, things need to be changed.

[canadian]

Mr. Taha:

Where does it say that Muslim men must keep beards and Muslim women must wear hijaabs?
People say that keeping beards is Rasullallah's sunnah, to which I say that even his enemies also kept beards, so am I following Rasulallah or his enemies? Similarly, I understand that Quran just asks both men and women to be modest in their clothing and women to cover their chests. My understanding is that this beard and hijaab business has been enforced by mullas (in the name of religion) so that ordinary folks also look "junglee" like them.!!!

[M Taha]

Mr. Taha:

Where does it say that Muslim men must keep beards and Muslim women must wear hijaabs?
People say that keeping beards is Rasullallah's sunnah, to which I say that even his enemies also kept beards, so am I following Rasulallah or his enemies? Similarly, I understand that Quran just asks both men and women to be modest in their clothing and women to cover their chests. My understanding is that this beard and hijaab business has been enforced by mullas (in the name of religion) so that ordinary folks also look "junglee" like them.!!!

is this PDB official statement?

there is no mention of how many rakaat should be prayed, but we obey shariyah which is from our prophet, so why not immitate prophet and his sunnah in looks as well?

hijab in mandatory in islaam, if you want I can post ayats of quraan.

[canadian]

No, I am just an ordinary Bohra.
As I said other folks also keep beard, e.g. non-Muslims and his enemies.
Please do quote from the Quran.

[SBM]

Br Taha
Asalam U Alekum Wa Rahmatullah Wa Barkatahu
Usually I do not dispute people's opinion and let them express but I do have limits, How are you to question about all what you said, Are you a true Muslim yourself because a true Muslim will never question about the faith of other Muslims. What makes you think that you are the pious one and know all the Hadiths.
This forum is for Dawoodi Bohras whether they follow it or not please take your Dawa'h to some other websites and stay out of here.
Ma Salaam

[M Taha]

Br Taha
Asalam U Alekum Wa Rahmatullah Wa Barkatahu
Usually I do not dispute people's opinion and let them express but I do have limits, How are you to question about all what you said, Are you a true Muslim yourself because a true Muslim will never question about the faith of other Muslims. What makes you think that you are the pious one and know all the Hadiths.
This forum is for Dawoodi Bohras whether they follow it or not please take your Dawa'h to some other websites and stay out of here.
Ma Salaam

how did you came to conclusion that I am judging some bodys imaan? I am just asking why alamaat of shariyat is absent from 80% progressives?

btw is this forum out of islaam fold? if you agree you are out of islaam fold, I will not post any thing again here.

day in and day out you give advice to kothar to follow islaam, while some body ask you to do the same, you want him to leave?

why this hypocrisy?

[M Taha]

No, I am just an ordinary Bohra.
As I said other folks also keep beard, e.g. non-Muslims and his enemies.
Please do quote from the Quran.

read surah nisa for many ayat on woman hijab In islaam, and beard is lovely sunnah of Muhammed(s).

[think]

taha, can you give an ayat from the quran where it says the angels and hoors in jannat will have long beards and the hoors will have a hijab. By the way hijab means different meanings to different cultures. Also be aware that when the Rasool went to waqr and the soldiers werew injured, women folks went out to help the injured men and these women did not have hujabs. They wore the regular dresses that women wore at that time. there was no ridda of bohri;s nor was there saya qurta and jalebi topi.

[scared]

As I said other folks also keep beard, e.g. non-Muslims and his enemies.

bro Canadian,

There is no logic in this argument. One shouldn't argue simply for the sake of arguing. There are many non-muslims who are good people. Will you argue now that being good is not Islamic? Keeping a beard is a sunnah of the prophet (saw) from authentic hadith. If you don't like it, don't keep it. When someone asks you to grow a beard, you should respond by saying that you do not wish to keep it. Simple. Do not present your argument against it because if you do so, then you are arguing against the sunnah of the prophet (saw), and that makes you a hypocrite. Hijaab is an ayah of the Quran. I am sure if you google it you will find plenty of explanations. Again, if you do not want your women to wear the Hijaab, then just say so. Do not argue against it because it is a mandate in the Quran. Arguing against ayahs of the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw) leads to shirk and kufr. We want to stay away from that.

[M Taha]

As I said other folks also keep beard, e.g. non-Muslims and his enemies.

bro Canadian,

There is no logic in this argument. One shouldn't argue simply for the sake of arguing. There are many non-muslims who are good people. Will you argue now that being good is not Islamic? Keeping a beard is a sunnah of the prophet (saw) from authentic hadith. If you don't like it, don't keep it. When someone asks you to grow a beard, you should respond by saying that you do not wish to keep it. Simple. Do not present your argument against it because if you do so, then you are arguing against the sunnah of the prophet (saw), and that makes you a hypocrite. Hijaab is an ayah of the Quran. I am sure if you google it you will find plenty of explanations. Again, if you do not want your women to wear the Hijaab, then just say so. Do not argue against it because it is a mandate in the Quran. Arguing against ayahs of the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw) leads to shirk and kufr. We want to stay away from that.

yes this is exactly what I am trying to convey.

thankyou scared for putting in correct way.

hypocrisy and fight for justice cant go hand in hand.

[Fed Up]

I totally agree with you M Taha.

[canadian]

@Scared:

Sorry, if you got the wrong impression. What I meant to say was that just because the prophet kept beard, does not mean that I should also keep a beard. If I do not have a beard, then no one has a right to demand or force me to keep a beard.
As regards, hijaab, could you kindly show me an ayaat in the Quran talking about hijaab or similar covering. Mr. Taha referred me to sura nisa; I just checked the English translation and did not find any mention of it. Although I am not a member of the Progressive Jamaat, I did not like the manner in which Mr. Taha was finding faults with their styles. I was trying to convey to him was that just because some one does not follow Islam the way he wants it to be followed, does not make that person a non-believer.

[M Taha]

@Scared:

Sorry, if you got the wrong impression. What I meant to say was that just because the prophet kept beard, does not mean that I should also keep a beard. If I do not have a beard, then no one has a right to demand or force me to keep a beard.
As regards, hijaab, could you kindly show me an ayaat in the Quran talking about hijaab or similar covering. Mr. Taha referred me to sura nisa; I just checked the English translation and did not find any mention of it. Although I am not a member of the Progressive Jamaat, I did not like the manner in which Mr. Taha was finding faults with their styles. I was trying to convey to him was that just because some one does not follow Islam the way he wants it to be followed, does not make that person a non-believer.

it seems surah nisa in your quraan is different from mine

Nisa means women and you didnt find any ayat on women in that surah?

any ways find some thing here

http://www.al-islam.org/hijab-muslim-wo ... -and-hijab

[Bohra spring]

Canadian , you don't need to be on the defensive....you raise a valid point

Hadith and practises are applications based on cultural and practises of those years. The Quran was translated into shariat which is common law . As human race evolved and civilisation transformed the Quran needs to be constantly translated and applied to modern situations. There is a trend called contemperory Islamic philosophy. It is despised by orthodox Muslims who rely on centuries old interpretations , that we all know has caused Islam to be on collision path with modern democratic societies both in the Middle East , Asia and west . Why do orthdox fear change because it shakes the fundamentals and destroys their incumbency and leverage ideological power over the less informed believers .

You raise an issue that Islam has become too ritualistic and less spiritual. Depth of iman is measured by rituals rather than unseen spirit .

Modesty is relative to the situation. Eg when's parent sees a naked child the modesty is different from when a man sees a naked or woman exposing her curves which raises sexuality. I could see a half naked old woman and it does not raise any sexuality so the purpose of modesty is different.

Seeing a mother breast feeding ..does not raise any sexual factors but if I saw the same woman topless at the beach ...sexual response would be different. So hope the people arguing get my point

Key figures from different regions, representing important trends include:
South Asia[edit]
Muhammad Iqbal sought an Islamic revival based on social justice ideals and emphasized traditional rules, e.g. against usury. He argued strongly that dogma, territorial nationalism and outright racism, all of which were profoundly rejected in early Islam and especially by Muhammad himself, were splitting Muslims into warring factions, encouraging materialism and nihilism. His thought was influential in the emergence of a movement for independence of Pakistan, where he was revered as the national poet. Indirectly this strain of Islam also influenced Malcolm X and other figures who sought a global ethic through the Five Pillars of Islam. Iqbal can be credited with at least trying to reconstruct Islamic thought from the base, though some of his philosophical and scientific ideas would appear dated to us now. His basic ideas concentrated on free-will, which would allow Muslims to become active agents in their own history. His interest in Nietzsche (who he called 'the Wise Man of Europe') has led later Muslim scholars to criticise him for advocating dangerous ideals that, according to them, have eventually formed in certain strains of pan-Islamism. Some claim that the Four Pillars of the Green Party honor Iqbal and Islamic traditions.
Fazlur Rahman was professor of Islamic thought at the University of Chicago and McGill University, and an expert in Islamic philosophy. Not as widely known as his scholar-activist contemporary Ismail Raji al-Faruqi, he is nonetheless considered an important figure for Islam in the 20th century. He argued that the basis of Islamic revival was the return to the intellectual dynamism that was the hallmark of the Islamic scholarly tradition (these ideas are outlined in Revival and Reform in Islam: A Study of Islamic Fundamentalism and his magnum opus, Islam). He sought to give philosophy free rein, and was keen on Muslims appreciating how the modern nation-state understood law, as opposed to ethics; his view being that the shari'ah was a mixture of both ethics and law. He was critical of historical Muslim theologies and philosophies for failing to create a moral and ethical worldview based on the values derived from the Qur'an: 'moral values', unlike socioeconomic values, 'are not exhausted at any point in history' but require constant interpretation. Rahman was driven to exile from his homeland, Pakistan, where he was part of a committee which sought to interpret Islam for the fledging modern state. Some of his ideas from English (which he claimed were from the Islamic tradition) were reprinted in Urdu and caused outrage among conservative Muslim scholars in Pakistan. These were quickly exploited by opponents of his political paymaster, General Ayyub Khan, and led to his eventual exile in the United States.
Muhammad Hamidullah belonged to a family of scholars, jurists, writers and sufis. He was a world-renowned scholar of Islam and International Law from India, who was known for contributions to the research of the history of Hadith, translations of the Qur'an, the advancement of Islamic learning, and to the dissemination of Islamic teachings in the Western world.
Syed Zafarul Hasan was a prominent twentieth-century Muslim philosopher. From 1924 to 1945 he was professor of philosophy at the Muslim University, Aligarh - where he also served as Chairman of the Department of Philosophy and Dean of the Faculty of Arts. There, in 1939, he put forward the 'Aligarh Scheme'. From 1945 until the partition of the sub-continent, Dr Hasan was Emeritus Professor at Aligarh. Dr. Zafarul Hasan was born on February 14, 1885. He died on June 19, 1949.
M. A. Muqtedar Khan is a Professor of Islam and International Relations at the University of Delaware. He is a prominent Muslim intellectual and philosopher and commentator on Islamic Thought and Global Politics. He organized the first contemporary Islamic Philosophers conference at Georgetown University in 1998. His work is on the subject of the philosophy of identity and rationality, Ijtihad, Islam and democracy and Islamic reform.
Akbar S. Ahmed is an anthropologist, filmmaker and an outstanding scholar on Islam, International Relations/Politics and Contemporary Islamic philosophy from Pakistan. He is Ibn Khaldun Chair of Islamic Studies at the American University in Washington DC and was the High Commissioner of Pakistan to UK. He has advised Prince Charles and met with President George W. Bush on Islam. His numerous books, films and documentaries have won awards. His books have been translated into many languages including Chinese and Indonesian. Ahmed is “the world’s leading authority on contemporary Islam” according to the BBC.
Javed Ahmad Ghamidi is a well-known Pakistani Islamic scholar, exegete, and educator. A former member of the Jamaat-e-Islami, who extended the work of his tutor, Amin Ahsan Islahi. He is frequently labeled a modernist for his insistence on the historical contextualization of Muhammad's revelation in order to grasp its true moral import.
Feisal Abdul Rauf is a well-known proponent of cultural reconciliation between the Muslim World and the West, basing his views on Classical Islamic governance's similarity to Western governance models in terms of religious freedoms and democratic inclination. Abdul Rauf is a highly visible American-Egyptian Imam at New York's Masjid al-Farah in addition to being Founder and Chairman of Cordoba Initiative, a non-profit organization seeking to bridge the divide between the Muslim world and the West.
Shia World[edit]
Morteza Motahhari was a lecturer at Tehran University. Motahhari is considered important for developing the ideologies of the Islamic Republic. He wrote on exegesis of the Qur'an, philosophy, ethics, sociology, history and many other subjects. In all his writings the real object he had in view was to give replies to the objections raised by others against Islam, to prove the shortcomings of other schools of thought and to manifest the greatness of Islam. He believed that in order to prove the falsity of Marxism and other ideologies like it, it was necessary not only to comment on them in a scholarly manner but also to present the real image of Islam.
Ali Shariati was a sociologist and a professor of Mashhad University. He was one of the most influential figures in the Islamic world in the 20th century. He attempted to explain and provide solutions for the problems faced by Muslim societies through traditional Islamic principles interwoven with and understood from the point of view of modern sociology and philosophy. Shariati was also deeply influenced by Mowlana and Muhammad Iqbal.
Musa al-Sadr was a prominent Shi'a Muslim intellectual and one of the most influential Muslim philosophers of 20th century. He is most famous for his political role, but he was also a philosopher who had been trained by Allameh Tabatabaei. As Professor Seyyed Hossein Nasr said: "his great political influence and fame was enough for people to not consider his philosophical attitude, although he was a well-trained follower of long living intellectual tradition of Islamic Philosophy". One of his famous writings is a long introduction for the Arabic translation of Henry Corbin's History of Islamic Philosophy.
Hossein Nasr, a political ecologist, argues that the concept of the Khilafah (Islamic caliphate) is fundamentally compatible with ideals of the ecology movement and peace movement, more so than expressed through conventional interpretations of Islam. He argues for an ecology-based ecumenism that would seek unity among the faiths by concentrating on their common respect for life as a Creation, i.e. the Earth's biosphere, Gaia, or whatever name. Pope John Paul II has made similar suggestions that "mankind must be reconciled to the Creation", and there is a Parliament of World Religions seeking a "global ethic" on similar grounds.
Muhammad Baqir al-Sadr was an Iraqi Shi'a cleric, a philosopher, and ideological founder of Islamic Dawa Party born in al-Kazimiya, Iraq. Mohammad Baqir Al-Sadr's political philosophy, known as Wilayat Al-Umma (Governance of the people), set out his view of a modern day Islamic state. His most famous philosophical works include: Falsafatuna (Our Philosophy), in which he refutes modern Western philosophical schools and asserts an Islamic view, Iqtisaduna (Our Economy), consisting of an exegesis of Islamic economics coupled with a critique of Western political economy as manifested in the Soviet Union on one hand and the United States on the other, and Al-Usus al-Mantiqiyyah lil-Istiqra' (The Logical Basis of Induction) in which he develops a theory which allows one to reach certainty through inductive methods.
Arab World[edit]
Ismail al-Faruqi looked more closely at the ethics and sociology of knowledge, concluding that no scientific method or philosophy could exist that was wholly ignorant of a theory of conduct or the consequences a given path of inquiry and technology. His "Islamization of knowledge" program sought to converge early Muslim philosophy with modern sciences, resulting in, for example, Islamic economics and Islamic sociology.
Nader El-Bizri a British-Lebanese philosopher, historian of science, and architectural theorist. He taught at the University of Cambridge, the University of Nottingham, and the University of Lincoln. He is also affiliated with the French CNRS in Paris, and the Institute of Ismaili Studies in London. He published and lectured widely on Ibn al-Haytham, Ibn Sina, Ikhwan al-Safa', and also on Heidegger and on phenomenology. He served on various editorial boards with academic publishers like Oxford University Press, Cambridge University Press, Springer, Brill, I. B. Tauris. He acted as consultant to the Aga Khan Trust for Culture in Geneva, the Science Museum in London, and the Guggenheim Museum in New York. He contributed also to various BBC radio and TV programs on Islamic philosophy and the history of the exact sciences in Islam. His approach to Islamic philosophy is historical and at the same time informed at the interpretive levels by readings from contemporary Continental Thought and Anglo-American Analytic Philosophy.
Abu Abd al-Rahman Ibn Aqil al-Zahiri is a retired Saudi Arabian polymath and member of the Academy of the Arabic Language in Cairo. His work has primarily dealt with the reconciliation of reason and revelation, especially in regard to issues surrounding the existence of God and theodicy. He has published bibliographies, anthologies and journal articles and lectured at conferences regarding logic in Islamic philosophy, showing especially strong interest in the work of Ibn Hazm and Ibn Rushd.[1][2] Various academic endeavors on his part have received UNESCO support in the past.

[canadian]

Thank you, Bohra Spring.
My problem is: being old, lately I find it difficult to articulate and express myself properly; you have expressed what I tried to tell.

For example, this self-appointed expert on Islam (Mr. Taha) has referred me to the following verses in sura an nisa and says that it means women should wear hijab:

“Say to the believing men that: they should cast down their glances and guard their private parts (by being chaste). This is better for them.”

“Say to the believing women that: they should cast down their glances and guard their private parts (by being chaste)…”

My question is: then why should men also not wear hijab so that women too are not tempted?

During prophet Mohammed’s time, he wore clothes, he kept beard and he lived in a way as all Arabs did. Islam is a religion and its principles apply to the whole mankind, but it is not necessary that all mankind should follow Arab culture and behave as the Arabs behaved at that time., What I mean to say that we should behave like the prophet, i.e. we should be tolerant, kind, generous, etc. and not what he wore or what he looked like
I do not want to create any controversy and I am not trying to be disrespectful, but the Arabs have more than one wife, so should all people have multiple wives?

[M Taha]

Brother Canadian, I perfectly understand your point of view, and you are trying to balance out man and woman.

but if you read whole Quraan specially surah yusuf, you will see how much stress is also given on male hijab, ofcourse its not the physical one like for women, but by akhlaaq.

women is physically different then man and they have different set of rules for dressing, but it doesnt means there is no hijab for man.

man should have hijab of good deeds.

[ghulam muhammed]

To sum it up :-

If Allah has given you the opportunity to get close to Him, don't think that others are not close to Him, I'll tell you why.
How many good deeds are there ? There are thousands of good deeds.
How many Sunnah deeds are there ? Hundreds of thousands, Do you agree ?
So, if you are engaged in 40 Good deeds, someone else might be engaged in 20 Good deeds but totally different from the ones you are engaged in.
So, when you look at them and you see what you are doing is not there, you start thinking that this person is not Religious... BUT hang on, they have engaged in other deeds, perhaps much more then you in quality and quantity and you don't even know. So stop judging !! Never judge a book by its cover !!

If Allah made it easy for you to cover yourself with Niqab, say Alhamdolillah ! Thank Allah but don't look at someone who's not there on that level and think these people are not even on Deen !

If you have grown your beard, Alhamdolillah !! Never look at someone without it and think these people are not there. Perhaps they respect their parents and you don't, perhaps they do not backbite and you do ! Subhan Allah ! Perhaps they get up for Tahajjud (Night prayers) and you don't.

So Good deeds are plenty and they are not confined to what you alone are doing, remember that ! May Allah give Tauhfiq to all !!

[james]

To sum it up :-

If Allah has given you the opportunity to get close to Him, don't think that others are not close to Him, I'll tell you why.
How many good deeds are there ? There are thousands of good deeds.
How many Sunnah deeds are there ? Hundreds of thousands, Do you agree ?
So, if you are engaged in 40 Good deeds, someone else might be engaged in 20 Good deeds but totally different from the ones you are engaged in.
So, when you look at them and you see what you are doing is not there, you start thinking that this person is not Religious... BUT hang on, they have engaged in other deeds, perhaps much more then you in quality and quantity and you don't even know. So stop judging !! Never judge a book by its cover !!

If Allah made it easy for you to cover yourself with Niqab, say Alhamdolillah ! Thank Allah but don't look at someone who's not there on that level and think these people are not even on Deen !

If you have grown your beard, Alhamdolillah !! Never look at someone without it and think these people are not there. Perhaps they respect their parents and you don't, perhaps they do not backbite and you do ! Subhan Allah ! Perhaps they get up for Tahajjud (Night prayers) and you don't.

So Good deeds are plenty and they are not confined to what you alone are doing, remember that ! May Allah give Tauhfiq to all !!

Very dishonest of you to not give credit where its due .

http://recklessaa.blogspot.in/2013/12/o ... -into.html

[zinger]

To sum it up :-

If Allah has given you the opportunity to get close to Him, don't think that others are not close to Him, I'll tell you why.
How many good deeds are there ? There are thousands of good deeds.
How many Sunnah deeds are there ? Hundreds of thousands, Do you agree ?
So, if you are engaged in 40 Good deeds, someone else might be engaged in 20 Good deeds but totally different from the ones you are engaged in.
So, when you look at them and you see what you are doing is not there, you start thinking that this person is not Religious... BUT hang on, they have engaged in other deeds, perhaps much more then you in quality and quantity and you don't even know. So stop judging !! Never judge a book by its cover !!

If Allah made it easy for you to cover yourself with Niqab, say Alhamdolillah ! Thank Allah but don't look at someone who's not there on that level and think these people are not even on Deen !

If you have grown your beard, Alhamdolillah !! Never look at someone without it and think these people are not there. Perhaps they respect their parents and you don't, perhaps they do not backbite and you do ! Subhan Allah ! Perhaps they get up for Tahajjud (Night prayers) and you don't.

So Good deeds are plenty and they are not confined to what you alone are doing, remember that ! May Allah give Tauhfiq to all !!

Very dishonest of you to not give credit where its due .

http://recklessaa.blogspot.in/2013/12/o ... -into.html

Ka-ching... the penny just dropped

[M Taha]

To sum it up :-

If Allah has given you the opportunity to get close to Him, don't think that others are not close to Him, I'll tell you why.
How many good deeds are there ? There are thousands of good deeds.
How many Sunnah deeds are there ? Hundreds of thousands, Do you agree ?
So, if you are engaged in 40 Good deeds, someone else might be engaged in 20 Good deeds but totally different from the ones you are engaged in.
So, when you look at them and you see what you are doing is not there, you start thinking that this person is not Religious... BUT hang on, they have engaged in other deeds, perhaps much more then you in quality and quantity and you don't even know. So stop judging !! Never judge a book by its cover !!

If Allah made it easy for you to cover yourself with Niqab, say Alhamdolillah ! Thank Allah but don't look at someone who's not there on that level and think these people are not even on Deen !

If you have grown your beard, Alhamdolillah !! Never look at someone without it and think these people are not there. Perhaps they respect their parents and you don't, perhaps they do not backbite and you do ! Subhan Allah ! Perhaps they get up for Tahajjud (Night prayers) and you don't.

So Good deeds are plenty and they are not confined to what you alone are doing, remember that ! May Allah give Tauhfiq to all !!

Very dishonest of you to not give credit where its due .

http://recklessaa.blogspot.in/2013/12/o ... -into.html

when the word "Honesty" comes from an abde, it gives me goose bumps ROFL.

[ghulam muhammed]

Very dishonest of you to not give credit where its due . http://recklessaa.blogspot.n/2013/12/o ... -into.html

We hope you had taken similar pains to surf more websites and gained some knowledge of comparative study of religion which would have prevented you of making a fool of yourself on this forum !