Question to our new fanatic

[salaar]

i want to put two important points forward now please focus on these two points only instead of stretching the argument to irrelevancy and insulting (1) why did syedna Burhanuddin Moula didnt remove SKQ before time and allowed him to continue on the post of Mazoon ........................... simple and easy to understand in families in kingships in corporate setups in countries political horizons and in religious hierarchy it is often seen that setups are made, people may not like each other but they tolerate each other to avoid mutual losses and attaining bigger objectives, at least 25 years back iam a witness that people were not happy in general with SKQ sahib and i remember my uncles words when i enquired him as he was the jamats secretary about this matter he said DIKRA MOULA KHAMOSH CHE TOU APNA SI BHI NA BOLAAE, this shows that there was that hidden rift between Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin Moula and SKQ however they kept quiet for the larger interest of the community, remember at that time Moula was in the best of health and could have clearified everything but he didnt, now how can we expect the Dai to appoint somebody with whom he was not in the best of relations, this is something which cannot be defended you ask any senior jamat position holder and he can tell you about the strained relations. (2) my second point is, during the audio speech of Maula which was presented after the speech of Shk Hussain bhai Hiptullah, in that speech Maula clearly said in reference to the claim by SKQ in Africa that Mazoon is also capable of Ilhaam from Imam a.s Moula said DAI MAZOON ANAY MUKASIR TEENAY DAWAT NA RUTBA CHE MAGAR AA KEHWO KE ILHAAM MAZOON NE BHI THAAE GHALAT CHE YE TOU FAQAT DAI NI ZAAT OOPAR AJ THAI SAKAY ........................................
now it is evident that Maula was trying to put things straight and remove the misconceptions created by his mazoon. keeping in view the above two points I dont see why would Burhanuddin Moula would appoint somebody like SKQ as his successor.

[anajmi]

(1) why did syedna Burhanuddin Moula didnt remove SKQ before time and allowed him to continue on the post of Mazoon ........................... simple and easy to understand in families in kingships in corporate setups in countries political horizons and in religious hierarchy it is often seen that setups are made, people may not like each other but they tolerate each other to avoid mutual losses and attaining bigger objectives, at least 25 years back iam a witness that people were not happy in general with SKQ sahib and i remember my uncles words when i enquired him as he was the jamats secretary about this matter he said DIKRA MOULA KHAMOSH CHE TOU APNA SI BHI NA BOLAAE, this shows that there was that hidden rift between Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin Moula and SKQ however they kept quiet for the larger interest of the community, remember at that time Moula was in the best of health and could have clearified everything but he didnt, now how can we expect the Dai to appoint somebody with whom he was not in the best of relations, this is something which cannot be defended you ask any senior jamat position holder and he can tell you about the strained relations.

This obviously proves that your Maula wasn't appointed by the Imam or Allah. He wasn't the representative of either. He was a normal politician in charge of the bohra state and had his own survival in mind. If he had been smart or receiving directions from the Imam, he would've kicked SKQ out at the beginning or hadn't appointed him at all. If he had done that at the beginning, the fallback wouldn'tve been as severe as it is right now. There would've been some issues, but not a breakup of the community as we are witnessing now. This proves that the Dai was short sighted or had no knowledge of ghaib.

(2) my second point is, during the audio speech of Maula which was presented after the speech of Shk Hussain bhai Hiptullah, in that speech Maula clearly said in reference to the claim by SKQ in Africa that Mazoon is also capable of Ilhaam from Imam a.s Moula said DAI MAZOON ANAY MUKASIR TEENAY DAWAT NA RUTBA CHE MAGAR AA KEHWO KE ILHAAM MAZOON NE BHI THAAE GHALAT CHE YE TOU FAQAT DAI NI ZAAT OOPAR AJ THAI SAKAY ........................................

And this was an ideal situation to get rid of the Mazun because then the fallback would've been minimal, if any, because the mazun was uttering falsehood. But again the Dai made a mistake. He still kept him around. I think he kept him around because SKQ knew the secrets of the Dai. Kicking him out would've brought a storm on this so called "Dawat".

[salaar]

that is no justification anajmi if so why didnt RasoolAllah removed people around him who he knew have grudges against him and his family and later on they showed their true colors, i think then naozobillah you would start criticizing here also

[alam]

i want to put two important points forward now please focus on these two points only instead of stretching the argument to irrelevancy and insulting (1) why did syedna Burhanuddin Moula didnt remove SKQ before time and allowed him to continue on the post of Mazoon ........................... simple and easy to understand in families in kingships in corporate setups in countries political horizons and in religious hierarchy it is often seen that setups are made, people may not like each other but they tolerate each other to avoid mutual losses and attaining bigger objectives, at least 25 years back iam a witness that people were not happy in general with SKQ sahib and i remember my uncles words when i enquired him as he was the jamats secretary about this matter he said DIKRA MOULA KHAMOSH CHE TOU APNA SI BHI NA BOLAAE, this shows that there was that hidden rift between Syedna Mohammad Burhanuddin Moula and SKQ however they kept quiet for the larger interest of the community, remember at that time Moula was in the best of health and could have clearified everything but he didnt, now how can we expect the Dai to appoint somebody with whom he was not in the best of relations, this is something which cannot be defended you ask any senior jamat position holder and he can tell you about the strained relations. (2) my second point is, during the audio speech of Maula which was presented after the speech of Shk Hussain bhai Hiptullah, in that speech Maula clearly said in reference to the claim by SKQ in Africa that Mazoon is also capable of Ilhaam from Imam a.s Moula said DAI MAZOON ANAY MUKASIR TEENAY DAWAT NA RUTBA CHE MAGAR AA KEHWO KE ILHAAM MAZOON NE BHI THAAE GHALAT CHE YE TOU FAQAT DAI NI ZAAT OOPAR AJ THAI SAKAY ........................................
now it is evident that Maula was trying to put things straight and remove the misconceptions created by his mazoon. keeping in view the above two points I dont see why would Burhanuddin Moula would appoint somebody like SKQ as his successor.

Looks like You have found your answers . . . Keep your peace with it.

[salaar]

comeon alam dont criticize have big heart we are just discussing dont jump to conclusions

[alam]

............... yet on the other hand i have the complaints of wealth accumulation, demand for more and more money on different pretext and the arrogancy which is evident in attitudes, after BurhanuddinMaula i have a growing feeling of insecurity and confusion and i tell you iam not the only one, what you are debating about is just meaningless for me iam more concerned about my future course of action, as like most of the people we should be SUMMUN BUKMUNN OUMMUN or what? i participated in this forum just to know the point of view of others however i tell you this SKQ episode is simply out of question for me, but the important question is what to do next or just stop thinking about it, please no arrogant or fanatic answers i want people who share my experience to come forward and advice me.

Brother Salaar

There are no easy answers ANYONE else can provide you that will work like magic for you or anyone else. Especially if you are striving for immediate gratification in terms of clarity. There are some things in life that only your own sense of judgement and reliance and trust on the wisdom of your soul can provide. You will find tons of rational and logical arguments from both sides of the camp here, and that is just one more thing for you to weigh.
Ultimately, the truth that is best for you, the truth that draws the boundary for your personal compasss in life will guide you. Sometimes that compass is fuzzy, and blurry, - but you just have to trust your own internal compass for guidance.
The ping pong here can be helpful upto a point. It can help stretch your thinking and see your blind spots. Beyond that, it has entertainment value, and can become frivolous too.

You got to first at least consider the possibility of the brainwashing that others have talked about - I know it's hard to swim through the abuse here on this forum, which I sincerely ask everyone to control. Yet, you can't deny that there are elements of truth that everyone resonates to - in terms of the corruption, money extortions, manipulations that everyone objects to.

Salaar, how come no response to my reply to you?

[salaar]

i read your reply and yes what you have written is true theres no second opinion on that, however i have lost confidence over my compass and just looking towards Allah to direct me to the right path, thnx for your warm reply

[anajmi]

that is no justification anajmi if so why didnt RasoolAllah removed people around him who he knew have grudges against him and his family and later on they showed their true colors, i think then naozobillah you would start criticizing here also

That is because what you have been fed about the companions of the prophet (saw) is pure hogwash.

[salaar]

your side of the story humm well right now we are discussing something else and not about the people who showed their nifaaq in auhad badar khyber jaml siffin and karbala its a long debate keep it locked for some other time

[alam]

i read your reply and yes what you have written is true theres no second opinion on that, however i have lost confidence over my compass and just looking towards Allah to direct me to the right path, thnx for your warm reply

To keep looking toward Allah - That is an ongoing process, never an end goal, and challenging times like these fog up the compass a bit.

[anajmi]

your side of the story humm well right now we are discussing something else and not about the people who showed their nifaaq in auhad badar khyber jaml siffin and karbala its a long debate keep it locked for some other time

Again, pure hogwash fed to you by your deceptive leaders. The companions of the prophet (saw) have been honored in the Quran. I don't think anyone else matters.

[salaar]

honestly alam SKQ position never moves the strings in my heart, i can recall the tone in which Burhanuddin Maula was referring about SKQ no brother it couldnt be. yes it was a family tussle for power and strength and the kothar and shahzadas played their role in the power struggle but honestly iam feeling the spiritual holiness is evaporating in this case and it seems as if we are discussing about the power struggle between mughal princes.

[alam]

honestly alam SKQ position never moves the strings in my heart, i can recall the tone in which Burhanuddin Maula was referring about SKQ no brother it couldnt be. yes it was a family tussle for power and strength and the kothar and shahzadas played their role in the power struggle but honestly iam feeling the spiritual holiness is evaporating in this case and it seems as if we are discussing about the power struggle between mughal princes.

Look, I'm not trying to be critical or even sarcastic.

It honestly looks to me that you have found your answers, and are looking for approval or agreement or validation, in the wrong places. Go do sajdaa to allah, after Namaaz, and maybe you will find peace or answers there.

If SKQ doesn't move strings in your heart, and strings in your heart is what you look for, then SKQ is not for you. End of story.

[salaar]

agreed i would do that

[Crater Lake]

I do apologize for your abuse here Salaar. You are such an easy target with your vehement defense of MS and concurrent complaints of his administration. From my point of view, we had some hope during Burhanuddin Moula's zaman because the person at the very top was no less than a saint. Now there is no hope for your kind. The man at the top lied to get his job and has thus lowered the bar for his entire administration. They have a free pass to lie, cheat and plunder. Still, since you asked politely so here's my advice. Quit cold turkey. No point in moaning and groaning about it here. Stop giving them your money if it bothers you that it is lining the pockets of corrupt officials! Demand transparency and refuse to pay up until all accounts are made public.
Having said that, I still find it silly that you moan and groan about corruption among petty officials and swallow whole the blatant lie that Burhanuddin Aqa sat up in bed and clearly articulated nass shortly after he had suffered a stroke that left him speechless. Good luck with your selective search for honesty!

[faiyaz0987]

Can someone please answer a simple question?
Which of the two Dais is in contact with the last Imam who went purdah.
Correct me if I am wrong but, isn't the entire concept of Dai is that he acts according to the wishes and instructions received by ALLAH and the last Imam.

[Crater Lake]

The real Dai is receiving taeed from imam uzzaman, the successor of the 21st imam who went into seclusion. The impostor is asking women not to go to University, killing lions, vacationing in Colombo and twirking with the Yemenis...

[salaar]

crater lake what you have said iam not in a position to accept or deny because honestly there is a war going on within me secondly if its not him then neither it could be the other, and finally about the suggestion to stop giving anything to them, brother in a society where iam living we cannot afford to do that however we can gradually sideline ourselves which i will do in future. one thing i would admit talking to you guys soothes down my emotions and i feel iam not the only one fighting this inner war.

[saminaben]

crater lake what you have said iam not in a position to accept or deny because honestly there is a war going on within me secondly if its not him then neither it could be the other, and finally about the suggestion to stop giving anything to them, brother in a society where iam living we cannot afford to do that however we can gradually sideline ourselves which i will do in future. one thing i would admit talking to you guys soothes down my emotions and i feel iam not the only one fighting this inner war.

Fyi
I went through and at some level, still going through this inner battle. Yet I'm at peace even though I don't really have a resolution about the 2sides.

[JC]

Can someone please answer a simple question?
Which of the two Dais is in contact with the last Imam who went purdah.
Correct me if I am wrong but, isn't the entire concept of Dai is that he acts according to the wishes and instructions received by ALLAH and the last Imam.

Real Imam is very angry and naraz .... he is not communicating with anyone these days. Even his mobile is switched off. It has been relaibly learnt that he is now heavily relying on Bombay High Court to 'decide' who is the real Dai. Imam has also lost communication with Mr. Burhanuddin simply because he is dead; so he is even not sure whom he would have preferred.

Bayway Maula Ne Dua (or Laraee) See Imam Suto Huva (or Parayshan) Chay ............

[Bohra spring]

So Makasir and Imam will take to the witness stand

SMS will off course say he was not physically present in the room when the Nass was done

[faiyaz0987]

As long as the Imam is not deciding, there are other ways to decide who gets what.
I recommend a cricket competition between Team SMS vs Team SKQ.

On a more serious note, wouldn't the Imam reveal himself to the true Dai, and that's how he shall know.
Shouldn't the true Dai tell us a revelation of Imam, so even we shall know.
Instead of fighting over who conferred nass on who and when and in what state of mind, because even the previous Dai has no right to decide who will be the next Dai. Its the Imam in all his knowledge who makes that decision.
Simple deciding factor could be as simple as "Hey guys the Imam asked to pass on so and so message of deen to you.'
We would know what is the message of the Imam and what is fabricated.
Dai is not the head of a multi billion, multi national corporation, he is a religious leader and in under no circumstances should he accept or propagate falsehood or misrepresentation done by aamils and family members or other such figures as claimed by many people. The moment anyone says that the Dai be it SMS or SMB or SKQ know about the wrong doings but cant change it, I believe that then he is not strong enough to lead the religion.

[humanbeing]

Can someone please answer a simple question?
Which of the two Dais is in contact with the last Imam who went purdah.
Correct me if I am wrong but, isn't the entire concept of Dai is that he acts according to the wishes and instructions received by ALLAH and the last Imam.

Imam-uz-Zaman is apparently amongst commoners watching the show with much anticipation.

[Crater Lake]

Going back to the topic of this thread: Salaar and why he could not answer the question. I think I have him figured out.

Salaar is a fringe qasre aali. Probably a member of the old or new Mukasir families.
He is a rebel and has gone out into the world and made a life for himself. He does not seem to have a lot of education but has enough street smarts to have made a worldly success of himself.
He has always questioned the methods and practices employed in dawat but has somehow been made to believe that the MS succession is unquestionable! He has been quite swept up in the propaganda because for a while he was given a taste of how those in the inner circle benefit. However the skeptic in him is alive and kept whispering in his ear that it was all wrong...
He aspires to be a leader - look at his name But at this point he cannot even lead his family out of a boring movie, forget about leading a community.
He has some sense of spirituality and is an introspective person - he did reflect on the graves of his ancestors.
His birth/status is more of a burden to him than a boon. He thinks he cannot break away because he does not know of a way of life away from the mess.
His daughter is sharp as a pin and has figured it all out. I hope he keeps her as far away from the Mufaddaly mess as he can.

Salaar if any of what I have said is true at all, you may be wrong about some things, especially about who can strum your heartstrings You seem like a someone who is seeking the truth. Give it a chance to come to you. At least don't embrace the lies. I wish you luck brother.

[humanbeing]

Awards and accomplishments

Title of Aali Qadr Mufaddal (Arabic: عالي قدر مفضل‎) by Syedna Taher Saifuddin (RA) given at birth in 1365.
Laqab of Saifuddin given on 27th Zilqaa’dil Haraam 1385 H on the Milaad (Birthday Anniversary) of Syedna Taher Saifuddin (RA).
Title of Seqato Daawate Taiyebiyah given on 27th Zilqaa’dil Haraam 1385 H on the Milaad (Birthday Anniversary) of Syedna Taher Saifuddin (RA).
Title of Aqeeq-ul-Yemen by Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin (TUS) given in 1391 H on his return from Yemen.

[Akhtiar Wahid]

but was he the Mazoon or Mukasir during the time of 52nd Dai-al-Mutlaq dawat......A Big NO!
so Mazoon still stands on the top of his head!

[Crater Lake]

May I present....
Mazoon-e-Dawat-e-Garrah rutba given to SKQ 17 Shaban 1385H by Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin. It's a title that has signified second-in-command in dawat for 850 years. It can trump 100 honorific titles....

It looks like the Seqato was a consolation prize to a petulant child... Still, well-done humanbeing. Glad you put an end to Salaar's embarrassment. It was definitely getting a little uncomfortable in here...He had to change sides and become a skeptic in order to save his side the embarrassment....

[Akhtiar Wahid]

@ Human Being
Do not forget that Syedna Khuzeima Qutbuddin was bestowed the title of Qutbuddin, STS (RA) consider him the dawat na qutub! also refering him to the 32nd Dai-ul-Mutlaq Syedna Qutbuddin Shaheed (AQ).
Here see the interesting revelation by wikipedia regarding this Ismaili shia Laqab
Qutb, Qutub, Kutb, or Kutub (Arabic: قطب‎), literally means 'axis', 'pivot' or 'pole'.[1] Qutb can refer to celestial movements and used as an astronomical term or a spiritual symbol.[2] In Sufism, a Qutb or Kutb is the perfect human being, al-insān al-kāmil, who leads the saintly hierarchy. The Qutb is the Sufi spiritual leader that has a Divine connection with God and passes knowledge on which makes him central to (or the axis of) Sufism, but he is unknown to the world.[3] There is only one Qutb per era and he is an infallible and trusted spiritual leader. He is only revealed to a select group of mystics because there is a "human need for direct knowledge of God".[4]
According to the Institute of Ismaili Studies (Ismailism is a branch of Shīʻa Islam), "In mystical literature, such as the writings of al–Tirmidhi, Abd al–Razzaq and Ibn al–‘Arabi (d. 1240), [Qutb or Kutb] refers to the most perfect human being (al–insan al–kamil) who is thought to be the universal leader of all saints, to mediate between the divine and the human and whose presence is deemed necessary for the existence of the world."

[Akhtiar Wahid]

And here is the funny meaning of the name Muffadal according to urban dicitionary
Mufaddal
1. Name meaning "preferred" in Arabic.
2. A charming, handsome man who is often an outright prince and extremely entertaining and therefore lovable.
Girl: Did you hear that amazing story Mufaddal told??
Boy: No- he's so hot I can't even pay attention. What?
by TippyToe

[salaar]

crater lake there is nothing suspicious in my case, you are repeating what i have already said about myself except that iam nobody from kothar or mukasir family its your wild guess work anyway keep guessing