Support from the community

[Danish]

Isn't darn obvious, Aareef.

[Aarif]

NO it is not.. If it is then you did not understand my question. I asked what is concept of god according to you? I am not interested in the followers...

[Aarif]

Also, I am not interested in what efforts you have taken to unearth the truth about god. I am only interested in knowing your personal opinion. So please do not spin the ball...

[Danish]

Okay, sorry for spinning the ball at your end. I was hoping you'd give some credit to what I stated. Anyhow, I became a humanist with the notion that there exists a "Creator" (an intelligent entity), nothing less nothing more ~ Dead-End?

[Aarif]

We call this Creator as God. So should I assume that you believe in god???

where God = Creator

PS: I will give you credit once you have answered my questions

[Danish]

Sure, almost all human beings (other than the atheists and agnostics) call this unimaginable "Creator" called God, but no one on earth knows WHO or WHAT this God exactly is to begin with (i.e. the kind, specie or substance) and still come up with all sorts of attributes, holy books, prophets/messengers, angels, etc. But you must remember, this very concept of God emanates from exalting and revering all sorts of clestial bodies, animals and human beings as idols reflecting the supernatural fathomless god yet at the same time becoming fathomable....in other words; back to square one and circumventing around. There is no such thing as fathomless unperceivable God to beign with; if you can just understand this very statement logically. Anything and Everything pertaining to this unimaginable created man-made concept of God is foolish and meaningless.

[abde sayedna]

abde sayedna - Length of tenure of office is not an indication of righteousness. We had had Dais who made great contributions to humanity, it is probably in the last 50 years or so that things have got rotten, the wrong people has assumed office by force and therefore the outrage from the community and the reformists.

my dear just compare this 50 yrs before u all where having money with the support of lakhpati reformist but now u all have become road patis with begging bowl in hand this show the support of allah to our moula in jihad againt u reformist.

[abde sayedna]

Every dog has his day and I want to think of the unthinkable. Scores of Bohris will drop the Dai and join the ranks of reformist.

dear aftab i cant believe this u mentioned reformist as dog, u have shown ur brothers there status of dog.
n u can only think of unthinkable n that is never going to happen

[like_minded]

Originally posted by abde sayedna:
abde sayedna - Length of tenure of office is not an indication of righteousness. We had had Dais who made great contributions to humanity, it is probably in the last 50 years or so that things have got rotten, the wrong people has assumed office by force and therefore the outrage from the community and the reformists.

my dear just compare this 50 yrs before u all where having money with the support of lakhpati reformist but now u all have become road patis with begging bowl in hand this show the support of allah to our moula in jihad againt u reformist.

abde syedna (bonded slave of burhan)

Islam came into existence 1400 years back, to fight illiteracy which unfortunately still exists among dull headed bohras like you.

People like you are still under the influence of superstitions, fear and greed, which is reinforced by your bhagwan burhan.

Only if people like you clear your minds... but again thats next to impossible, because you guys are conditioned beyond repair... I pity you.

[abde sayedna]

u label ur self like minded but u coment very stupidly . alhamdolillah with the blesing of our moula in todays eraq muminin are economical well off n it require intelligence n literacy to compete in the now days bussiness climate . so my dear come in the real world n see the progress of mumenin n then coment

[Aarif]

Danish,

slow down mannn slow down.. You are driving at a speed of 100 mph without wearing a seat belt. Lets take one step at a time.

So what I get from your last post is that you do believe in a super natural creator.

Next question is how did YOU came to this conclusion that there is a super natural creator??? Make sure that I am only interested in your personal opinion.. So please stick to that..

[Danish]

Aareef, slow down on what and I don't need any religious seat belts. I already gave you an answer which you either ignored or did not understand. And please, no need to regurgitate in circles.

[Aarif]

Danish,

You are avoiding my question. I will again ask you the same.

"How did you came to a conclusion that there exists a super natural creator"?

My question cannot be more obvious then this.

So you can either answer it or leave it.

[Danish]

Aareef, your question is irrelevant and going in circles. What you should have gathered from my posts by now is that I do not believe in a religious supernatural fathomless yet fathomable attributable home-made God.

Originally posted by Aareef:
"How did you came to a conclusion that there exists a super natural creator"?

Originally posted by Danish: I became a humanist with the notion that there exists a "Creator" (an intelligent entity), nothing less nothing more ~ Dead-End?

[Aarif]

I became a humanist with the notion that there exists a "Creator" (an intelligent entity), nothing less nothing more ~ Dead-End?
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Let me ask you one last time. How did you get this notion that there exists a "Creator"(an intelligent entity)???

[Aarif]

I became a humanist with the notion that there exists a "Creator" (an intelligent entity), nothing less nothing more ~ Dead-End?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me ask you one last time. How did you get this notion that there exists a "Creator"(an intelligent entity)???

And also, remember that I don't care what you do not believe in... I am only interested in knowing your beliefs so that I can understand your perspective.

[Danish]

Aareef, so now you twist your question and make it the last one even after answering you twice. Why does it matter to you with such interest from further understanding my perspectives as to what I believe and what I don't? Nevertheless, I’ll give a diminutive presentation to cover up and summarize my perspectives to better understand the notion of God emanating from historical standpoint to where we are today.

I get the notion that there exists an "intelligent entity" due to the fact that our planet Earth and our entire Cosmological Universe must have been "created" by virtue of its harmonious relations and unparallel settings governing the very essence of existence. Now the question begs to answer who or what this very "entity" exactly is whenceforth no human can fathom nor perceive, hence this "entity" remains fathomless and unperceivable. This “intelligent entity” could be anything; Spirit, Light, Heat, Energy, or a Spec of Anything/Whatnot. Note that all these entities possess the same characteristics and attributes of a man-made fathomable “deity”, i.e. omniscience, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent, etc. and possessing exactly the opposites as well.

Given the Nature and Reality in existence, man (groups of men as a community/cult) had always taken upon himself (themsleves) in trying to decipher this "entity" by imaginations and suppositions in contemplating and reflecting upon celestial bodies, humans, animals and objects, giving them forms, shapes and attributes by making idols and idolworshipping acts of all sorts in sheer reverence, exaltations and invocations, whereby wars have been ferociously fought ever since among groups/cults for their best polytheistic to monotheistic belief systems, “one and only” “most powerful”, “most merciful” gods, goddesses and their rituals in representations to attain power, greed and creed, which to this day these belief systems are instilled into our minds and cherished with utter respect and reverence and further manipulated and molded to brainwash by unscrupulous thugs in disgust, disharmony and ignorance (the he-said/she-said trauma) over time. This monotheistic upheaval led to the criminal belief of “No god but God” and all the religious jargons that came along with it from grounds up.

Nature and Reality are the only given denominations by which all creatures live-in and live-out regardless of who or what this “entity” is. The concordance is very simple to exegesis and that is WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get), WYSIWYS (What You Sow Is What You Seed) and The Golden Rule (Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated). All three phenomenons are the results of living a life or path dictated and directed solely by Nature and Reality with which our minds reason, eyes vision and ears listen. By Nature, I mean everything that exists and known on-hand and as witnessed; and by Reality, I mean all events and circumstances that happen on-hand and as witnessed. THIS IS THE ULTIMATE TRUTH IN THE SPHERE OF ONE’S OWN ENTIRE LIVING REALM.

I hope you now understand the drift of my beliefs and perspectives. In short, THERE IS NO (other) god but (my) GOD.

[Aarif]

Why does it matter to you with such interest from further understanding my perspectives as to what I believe and what I don't?

And why does it matter to you what the muslims believe in or not??? Your perspective comes into picture when you start challenging my perspective.. You have a right to believe in whatever you wish to believe in. However, you do not have the right to insult the belief of others...

The Golden Rule (Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated).

This applies to you as well.. So next time think twice before criticizing Muslims and Islam..

In short, THERE IS NO (other) god but (my) GOD.
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It means everybody has a right to choose his own god. So if allah is the god of muslims what is your problem???

Your perspective is clear from this post. However, if you continue writing posts the way you do otherwise then you will be contradicting your own belief...

Also, next time do not ask any muslim to prove that Allah exists cos you do not have any concrete proof of your own notion of existence of this intelligent entity.. If you have the proof then show us. Remember "What You See is What You Get.."

[Danish]

Originally posted by Aareef:

Why does it matter to you with such interest from further understanding my perspectives as to what I believe and what I don't?

And why does it matter to you what the muslims believe in or not??? Your perspective comes into picture when you start challenging my perspective.. You have a right to believe in whatever you wish to believe in. However, you do not have the right to insult the belief of others...

Hey, the babbling and spewing of insults is written on your face all over this forum...look who's talking.

As for criticizing Muslims and Islam, it has become a world wide phenomenon since at least 9/11 in the wake to open up and cure the schizophrenic minds, eyes and ears due to their intolerant, hypocritical and maligned thinking patterns dictated by your masculine Allah towards all non-Muslims, humanity and civility in general and shockingly among themselves in total submissions. Muslims are too eager to beam themselves up to the heavens to get drowned in rivers where wines flow and get laid with 72 angelic virgins amidst their prophet who declared such sanctities with guaranteed securities behind Allah's closed doors and they desperately desire others helping hands in agony.

Also, next time do not ask any muslim to prove that Allah exists cos you do not have any concrete proof of your own notion of existence of this intelligent entity.. If you have the proof then show us. Remember "What You See is What You Get.."

Thanks for proving once again your reverse tactic babblings. It is you who have a god named Allah to choke upon, so the onus to prove this fathomless yet fathomable male chauvinist deity lies onto you, not me. That’s why there are over a billion brainless zombies who believe in meaningless pagan doctrines, conjectural materials and the biggest and the best locked up invisible Idol and idolworshipping acts manufactured right at the alleged epicenter of planet Earth where they gracefully run amok like wildebeests and whom they exalt, revere and invoke from all corners of the world. But hey, perhaps I became very angry and jealous at your Allah as per His Book who sealed mine and over 6 billion others’ minds, eyes and ears from this enchanted feisty entertainment….very goofy and scary at first but good for us.

[Aarif]

Now look who is babbling.. Danish, the free thinking genius is short of words. He has nothing more intelligent to add.. So he is resorting to the cheap tactic of "offence is the best from of defence" What happened to your free thinking spirit??? Did it evaporated or got sucked in by this so called intelligent entity.. I am glad that we do not have many free thinkers like you around us. Cos your free thinking is unfortunately quite expensive

[Danish]

O really, you neither discussed anything nor rebutted to any of my "perspectives" on the subject at hand as vehemnetly interested but fell into ramblings of personal excitement.

[Aarif]

I only get as personal as you want me to get. So in-order to understand my posts first go back and read yours. If you are intelligent enough you will be definitely able understand what you have written so far. If not send an email to your intelligent super natural entity. I am sure it would be having a wireless internet connection. If you still have problems contact Syedna. He has a hotline through which you can communicate with your god... The only hitch is that the fees is too high for that kind of an arrangement...

Till then happy free thinking..

[Danish]

Hmmm, once again, we have wonderous nuggets of Islam circumventing my previous quote in disguise:

Originally posted by Danish:
O really, you neither discussed anything nor rebutted to any of my "perspectives" on the subject at hand as vehemnetly interested but fell into ramblings of personal excitement.

[Aarif]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Danish: I became a humanist with the notion that there exists a "Creator" (an intelligent entity), nothing less nothing more ~ Dead-End?

After reaching the dead end of your thinking what else were you expecting me to discuss with you??? May be free thinkers have a different concept of dead ends... In that case pls enlighten me...

[Alislam]

""As for criticizing Muslims and Islam, it has become a world wide phenomenon since at least 9/11 in the wake to open up and cure the schizophrenic minds, eyes and ears due to their intolerant, hypocritical and maligned thinking patterns dictated by your masculine Allah towards all non-Muslims, humanity and civility in general and shockingly among themselves in total submissions. Muslims are too eager to beam themselves up to the heavens to get drowned in rivers where wines flow and get laid with 72 angelic virgins amidst their prophet who declared such sanctities with guaranteed securities behind Allah's closed doors and they desperately desire others helping hands in agony.""

---- Googly man, here u r sounding like Bush.
Why don't you google again and see "Who did 9/11"
Do you still think, ur friends from the cave did it.

[Danish]

Originally posted by Alislam:
---- Googly man, here u r sounding like Bush.

O I hate my guts out on that monkey Bush with a "sheesh" Syndrome for what he has done to Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Africa and now preparing to penetrate Iran.

Why don't you google again and see "Who did 9/11"
Do you still think, ur friends from the cave did it.

You mean the conspiracy theory, like the one here about Islam: www.aididsafar.com (very interesting how conspiracies shape up to facts and figures). Read up all you can on that site and tell me if it stands up to any scrutiny.

[Alislam]

""You mean the conspiracy theory, like the one here about Islam: www.aididsafar.com (very interesting how conspiracies shape up to facts and figures). Read up all you can on that site and tell me if it stands up to any scrutiny""

--- Google again, read a few more and see what "Free thinkers & intellectualls" (Ilk of your tribe) have to say.

Probably, u'll understand which story is a conspiracy theory.

[Danish]

AliIslam, I have no doubts about the 9/11 and I do believe that it was an inside job. As a matter of fact I myself have supported the "conspiracy" and talked about it in great details at other forums and, if I recall correctly, mentioned here on this site as well a few years ago.

American attrocities and warmongering tactics in the name of free-speech and freedom, both within and throughout the world, has been cleverly formulated and politicized for its greed and domination. But that has nothing to do with religion. Islam, on the other hand, is an ancient pagan belief system alleged for ALL TIMES in the name of their Allah by Nara-e-Takbeer and Nara-e-Risala, which is being politicized, demanded, fortified and dominated, both within and throughout the world. Both are volitionally and dissolutely apart but nearing conjoining purported by Muslms in the wake of Islam and that will be disastrous to entire humanity.

[Alislam]

As for criticizing Muslims and Islam, it has become a world wide phenomenon since at least 9/11 in the wake to open up and cure the schizophrenic minds, eyes and ears due to their intolerant, hypocritical and maligned thinking patterns dictated by your masculine Allah towards all non-Muslims, humanity and civility in general and shockingly among themselves in total submissions. Muslims are too eager to beam themselves up to the heavens to get drowned in rivers where wines flow and get laid with 72 angelic virgins amidst their prophet who declared such sanctities with guaranteed securities behind Allah's closed doors and they desperately desire others helping hands in agony.

AliIslam, I have no doubts about the 9/11 and I do believe that it was an inside job. As a matter of fact I myself have supported the "conspiracy" and talked about it in great details at other forums and, if I recall correctly, mentioned here on this site as well a few years ago.

-- Danish, the above two are quoted by you and they are contradictory to one another.
In the first quote, you talk of muslim bashing due to their intolerance, etc., post 9/11

Whereas you accept in your second quote that it was an inside job and not carrier out by muslims.

So, you mean to say that oppressors have all the right to kill in the name of freedom and democracy and the oppressed do not even have a right to defend themselves ?

[Danish]

Alislam, the two passages you brought above are not contradictory but conveying seperate subjects. 9/11 was cleverly formulated for a long time to attack Iraq for OIL, US$ and LOCATION for political gains which eventually proliferated into a religious matter in part by Muslims aorund the globe. 9/11 was never a war of religions to begin with. Obviously the US planning has become a disastrous failure by their hideous crimes of death and destruction and certainly the Iraqis have every right to defend their livelihoods and their country. But that is far said than done because even some of the Islamic countries are involved in this war in support of 9/11.

My contentions to criticize Islam is purely on its belief systems to enthral and enforce them upon ALL non-Muslims throughout the globe in the name of their God. Today, for example, England is in the verge of becoming Islamized and the consequences are far greater which could lead to religious wars among Islam and the Rest. I can relate countless examples where Muslims are demanding, enforcing and fortifying their pagan uncouth rules wherever their presence is administered, all under the guise of "shariah" (Allah, Muhammad, Quran & Ahadith). The 9/11 phenomenon, irrespective of its original intention, has in fact and in truth shaken up the world in the wake of what Islam is all about.... and thanks to your Allah.