Regular Qarzan Hasana Collection

[wise_guy]

Regular (every week) collection of money for Qarzana Hasan has now become prevelant in most jamats/places if I am not wrong. While this may be for good reasons, the thing again comes to accountability as the money is given by people in plain envelopes without any mention of names or other info. Now, most of the jamaats are known to be hot bed for corruption and it is anybody's guess, how much money will actually be used in Qarzan Hasana and how much will be used for personal use of the jamaat members, aamils, etc.. Also, does this money get retained at local jamat or get transferred all the way to the top... I don't think so that it gets retained at the local jamaat as we are talking about huge money due to regular collection.. People with more and inside information on this can elaborate and add more here..

[Grayson]

Collection of large sums of money for a loan scheme is a questionable concept, as supposedly, this money is loaned back to people in need. If there's no transparency in it's usage (as it tends to be), you might as well consider it "najwa" and like all money given to Daawat, expect that it'll be used 'as the dai sees fit.'

In regards to Qarzan Hasana, my brother and father give out their own personal interest-free loans to people we know of in need. There are other families that practice the same. If you're interested in getting involved in Qarzan Hasana, considering the doubts shared above, I suggest you adopt a similar stance, where privacy and control are sustained. When made or compelled to contribute to the Jamaat, do it with a lighter amount, praying for the best and acknowledging you're not exactly sure what will happen to that sum.

Other than that, I doubt you'd receive any answer saying what happens with that money that isn't speculation. Individual jamaats tend to have a different way of practicing things, so the specific paths of the money may differ. To pinpoint where it's used is likely difficult.

[SBM]

Abdes are not supposed to question anything. Even if Syedna or his goons ask for, abdes are supposed to make JUTI of THEIR KHAAL and present to the Goons (as per Madeh)

[wise_guy]

Collection of large sums of money for a loan scheme is a questionable concept, as supposedly, this money is loaned back to people in need. If there's no transparency in it's usage (as it tends to be), you might as well consider it "najwa" and like all money given to Daawat, expect that it'll be used 'as the dai sees fit.'

In regards to Qarzan Hasana, my brother and father give out their own personal interest-free loans to people we know of in need. There are other families that practice the same. If you're interested in getting involved in Qarzan Hasana, considering the doubts shared above, I suggest you adopt a similar stance, where privacy and control are sustained. When made or compelled to contribute to the Jamaat, do it with a lighter amount, praying for the best and acknowledging you're not exactly sure what will happen to that sum.

Other than that, I doubt you'd receive any answer saying what happens with that money that isn't speculation. Individual jamaats tend to have a different way of practicing things, so the specific paths of the money may differ. To pinpoint where it's used is likely difficult.

I ask because, initially in Houston (and maybe still prevelant), the Qarzana Hasana collection was done with people putting money in their name (like a Qarzana Hasana account linked to their jamaat file identified by their ejamaat number or somewhat like that) and they would be getting their money back in 3 year's time. In the meanwhile, that money would be used as Qarzan Hasana... This is a very good concept and can be replicated everywhere.

[Grayson]

If true to practice, indeed the concept is promising.
Ideas like this should thrive on a local level.

[qutbiranglaya]

I am disgusted by our Jamaats and the Dawaat who spend thousands of dollars, our money, for their enjoyment. This is how they do it.

The boiling frog story is a widespread anecdote describing a frog slowly being boiled alive. The premise is that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability or unwillingness of people to react to significant changes that occur gradually. This is being used on us abdes.

Take for example Karz e Hassana. To start with SMB(52) started the scheme with the very sound intentions of helping poor mumineen to help themselves out of poverty by starting a business. It was to be fully funded by the Dawaat. But it was soon realized that this might put a dent in the crores of rupees/dollars held by Dawaat all over the world. So very slowly the funds for this started to be collected from us, the abdes. Now it has become so frequent that no one wants to contribute any more and most of the loans go to the trustees and their relatives and friends.

Tiffin story is similar. The idea is super and it was to provide at least one meal to our poorest mumineen. It was free for starters but as days went by funds pool dried up so a small charge was laid. This gradually increased to a substantial payment which the poorest of the poor can not afford. For well off ladies this was an escape from the kitchen. So why not enjoy the spare time by going to clubs, cinema, kitty party or 'ghibat' party etc. for our young ladies there is no need to learn how to cook all thanks to Muffi.

Both Karz e Hassana and tiffin were excellent ideas but misused by the so called Dawat.

[AllahKiRaahMe]

I agree with you.Thanks for putting up such a nice write up.Jazaakallah!

[awaken]

Right on qutbiranglaya!! Great post.
Now, all Bohras who claim themselves as moderates and logical thinkers SHOULD at least reject
both of these options. No Jamaat can force you to agree, though they will get frustrated and inject
guilt feeling upon you. Learn to say NO once awhile.

[wise_guy]

There is a new angle to Qarzana Hasanah which I came to know and which has been in practice for long. If you don't seem to cough up 'Faakhir' amount as waajebaat, then you are offered Qarzanah Hasanah readily and easily for paying waajebat.. lol.. so much defeats the purpose of the Qarzana Hasanah. I got to know of a fish who took the bait and now is paying the installments. In this way, the Qarzana Hasana money stays with the Kothar and the gullible guy is tied and pays his hard earned money to support the utra luxurious life styles of the higher ups.

Religious loan sharks !

[HirsuteGenuflector]

I am not asking where it came from, just where is it and how can I get hold of a tiny piece. Simply for the barakat of course.

[Bori85]

I am not asking where it came from, just where is it and how can I get hold of a tiny piece. Simply for the barakat of course.

I know my family also gives in Karza Hasanah fund every month, over here in Mississauga, the system is same as Houston, you put money and after few years you get back the funds you have put in the scheme, it is like a forced saving, and people who need it can get an interest free loan, but I have come to know that some people take Qarze Hasanah loan to go for vacations to their home country and/ or to buy cars, or renovate their homes. And they justify this by saying that why not? we pay everymonth in this scheme ,so when we need something for ourselves then why to block huge amount of money, instead take Qarze Hasana and pay up in installments. Now I wonder whether this was the true intention of starting this scheme.

[ghulam muhammed]

I wonder whether this was the true intention of starting this scheme.

The true intention was to park the 0.01% black money of Kothar somewhere and what could be better then to keep it with Bohras where it is most safe as no bohra has the guts to run away with their money. Moreover it not only legitimises their ill-gotten wealth but also gives it the "Charity" tag due to which Bohras are overwhelmed and see it as "Mola nu ehsan ne karam" !! There are many bhaisaabs who also give 'Qarde Hasanah' in their personal capacity and the biggest lender is Qaid Johar, this helps them in ensuring loyalty and forming a gang of their own.

[Angel-bohra]

For taking loan from Qarzan Hasana, you need to keep the gold of same amount with the bank or trust registered with local jamaat... So only those who have money in the form of gold can be benefited by it!

[bohra_manus]

For taking loan from Qarzan Hasana, you need to keep the gold of same amount with the bank or trust registered with local jamaat... So only those who have money in the form of gold can be benefited by it!

I think it the west, if a person doesn't have gold, two guarantors (with good standing in the jamaat) are required to take the responsibility and one of them is required to write post dated checks (or something similar, don't recall the exact details). -- This was a few years ago, things may have changed for better or worse.

[ghulam muhammed]

[img]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/21/5cwq.jpg[/img]

[QutbiORMuffy]

Reverse Qarzan Hasana

Ikram_Fund_Qardan_Hasana.pdf

(27.84 KiB) Downloaded 364 times

[Ummul Bani]

I am trying to understand this,

I ask because, initially in Houston (and maybe still prevelant), the Qarzana Hasana collection was done with people putting money in their name (like a Qarzana Hasana account linked to their jamaat file identified by their ejamaat number or somewhat like that) and they would be getting their money back in 3 year's time. In the meanwhile, that money would be used as Qarzan Hasana... This is a very good concept and can be replicated everywhere.

How does the Qarzan Hasanah concept work in States?
Is gold not asked for as a means of security deposit from the applicant ?
Is there any security provided to the person who is lending this amount for three years?

I ask this because it is unlike the process we have in India.

[wise_guy]

here, you need two guarantors who are willing to give post-dated checks as collateral. Other forms of additional collateral may be required. But again, in places like Houston, influence works and influential people can get qardan easily. Houston jamat is one big goonda jamaat as well (especially the jamaat members)

I am trying to understand this,

I ask because, initially in Houston (and maybe still prevelant), the Qarzana Hasana collection was done with people putting money in their name (like a Qarzana Hasana account linked to their jamaat file identified by their ejamaat number or somewhat like that) and they would be getting their money back in 3 year's time. In the meanwhile, that money would be used as Qarzan Hasana... This is a very good concept and can be replicated everywhere.

How does the Qarzan Hasanah concept work in States?
Is gold not asked for as a means of security deposit from the applicant ?
Is there any security provided to the person who is lending this amount for three years?

I ask this because it is unlike the process we have in India.

[SBM]

who are willing to give post-dated checks as collateral.

It is illegal to give post dated checks in USA and also if some one does deposit the post dated checks, bank usually do not pay attention to the dates and will cash the checks (only applies in USA)

[Sufi monk]

lol