How Authentic Are The Bohra Versions Of Its Own History ?

Given modern distractions, the need to understand Islam better has never been more urgent. Through this forum we can share ideas and hopefully promote the true spirit of Islam which calls for peace, justice, tolerance, inclusiveness and diversity.
fayyaaz
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:40 pm

Re: How Authentic Are The Bohra Versions Of Its Own History

#61

Unread post by fayyaaz » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:26 am

ghulam muhammed wrote: Muslims from both sects have been reading the hadith since over a thousand years but still nothing has changed, so its no use harping upon an issue which is the fundamental reason of the shia/sunni split. Each one is going to remain adamant no matter what evidences are put forward as people have been conditioned to view things from a pre set prism and they don't want to explore the other side of the arguments. This the sad state of affairs of the Muslim world !!
It is not sad at all. It would be funny if people did not get killed in this matter. It is just a reflection of the diverse myths people live by.

On one side is the myth of God, angels (with wings?), jinns, messenger and his oligarchically elected deputies, now defunct.

On the other side is the myth of God, angels (with wings?), jinns, messenger and his personally nominated deputies, some defunct, some allegedly hidden and at least one living who pays lip-service to 'Islam'. Hidden deputies also have living deputies. All these deputies have built a cult of personality around their persons and turned themselves into money-milking personal enterprises. They all purvey sweet nothings to make their cult members docile consumers of illusory good life now and in the hereafter.

No more sad than global infotainment systems purveying hollywood, bollywood. gossipy tabloids, facebook, whatsapp, twitter and other mind-numbing entertainments. Think of religion as an entertainment system.

And it is not illegal as long as they do no physically harm. Mental harm is not illegal but who is to decide if their minds are being harmed.

anajmi
Posts: 13511
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: How Authentic Are The Bohra Versions Of Its Own History

#62

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:01 am

And it is not illegal as long as they do no physically harm.
Actually, there are legal ways to inflict physical harm. Those legal ways are either based on laws of religion or laws of humans. Remember, if God is a myth, then even religion is created by humans. So they are all laws of humans. My legal might not be the same as your legal and most of the times, most people don't give a crap about someone else's legal or illegal.

fayyaaz
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:40 pm

Re: How Authentic Are The Bohra Versions Of Its Own History

#63

Unread post by fayyaaz » Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:18 am

anajmi wrote: My legal might not be the same as your legal and most of the times, most people don't give a crap about someone else's legal or illegal.
Legal as defined in the Laws of a country like the United States. Granted that in societies where cronyism is the rule and the rule of law almost non-existent. as in most Islamic dictatorships, legal is what your ruler says it is. My comments apply to Western liberal societies where Muslims live.

anajmi
Posts: 13511
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: How Authentic Are The Bohra Versions Of Its Own History

#64

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:36 am

My comments apply to Western liberal societies where Muslims live.
And my comments apply to all. Western liberal societies have inflicted great physical harm around the globe for centuries. It continues till today. And it has all been legal as per laws defined by the western liberal societies.

KA786110
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:20 am

Re: How Authentic Are The Bohra Versions Of Its Own History

#65

Unread post by KA786110 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:55 pm

anajmi wrote:
My comments apply to Western liberal societies where Muslims live.
And my comments apply to all. Western liberal societies have inflicted great physical harm around the globe for centuries. It continues till today. And it has all been legal as per laws defined by the western liberal societies.

So are the atrocities committed by ISIS, AQ, talibs and other extremists in the name of Islam.

KA786110
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:20 am

Re: How Authentic Are The Bohra Versions Of Its Own History

#66

Unread post by KA786110 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:15 am

anajmi wrote:Forget all the hadith. What was the primary mission of the prophet (saw)? Spread the glory of Allah or spread the glory of Ali? If you are an idol worshipper, your answer is Ali. If you are not, then the answer is Allah. If your answer is Allah, then what happened at ghadeer is of no significance one way or the other. A majority of the muslims have rightly understood that the mission of the prophet (saw) was to spread the glory of Allah. Hence, for them, ghadeer is of no significance.
Whatever floats your boat. If that logic soothes you then so be it. You can keep citing the majority logic. But majority is not always right. Allah and His Prophet(pbuh) wanted continual guidance for humanity that is why holy Prophet(pbuh) on God's command uttered 'Man kunto Mowla ..' and 'Two weighty things ..' but these clear pronouncements will not sink in your already full mind. Cogitate on this dear.

araz5253
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:18 pm

Re: How Authentic Are The Bohra Versions Of Its Own History

#67

Unread post by araz5253 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:18 am

ka76 please read the first post of the thread "man qunto.." this explains clearly that it was not statement of succession , rather there are more clearer hadith which show Abu bakr was intended to succeed prophe pbuh

qutub_mamajiwala
Posts: 1059
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am

Re: How Authentic Are The Bohra Versions Of Its Own History

#68

Unread post by qutub_mamajiwala » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:21 am

even if it is not a statement of succession as we understand in modern terms, what it literally and verbatim meant was ali is maula of whoever considered prophet as maula.
these included 1, 2, and 3 also. coz they also considered prophet as their maula.
1,2 , 3 are politically successor, while for spirituality and deen we have to refer to ali after prophets death.

anajmi
Posts: 13511
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: How Authentic Are The Bohra Versions Of Its Own History

#69

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:36 am

So are the atrocities committed by ISIS, AQ, talibs and other extremists in the name of Islam.
Correct. They are legal activities according to them.

fayyaaz
Posts: 528
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:40 pm

Re: How Authentic Are The Bohra Versions Of Its Own History

#70

Unread post by fayyaaz » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:54 pm

anajmi wrote:
So are the atrocities committed by ISIS, AQ, talibs and other extremists in the name of Islam.
Correct. They are legal activities according to them.
Recently ISIS, allegedly the greatest Islamic movement since Prophet Muhammad walked on earth, beheaded a Japanese journalist and today there are reports that ISIS burned a Jordanian pilot alive while locked in a cage.

All this is legal according to this Wahhabi sub-sect and we have vocal supporters of this legality on this forum. :roll:
Last edited by fayyaaz on Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

anajmi
Posts: 13511
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: How Authentic Are The Bohra Versions Of Its Own History

#71

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:00 pm

That slap on your face made quite a sound eh? :wink:

anajmi
Posts: 13511
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: How Authentic Are The Bohra Versions Of Its Own History

#72

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:25 pm

allegedly the greatest Islamic movement since Prophet Muhammad walked on earth
A note to consider. This movement is considered to be Islamic only by people like fayyaaz.

topiwala
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:02 pm

Re: How Authentic Are The Bohra Versions Of Its Own History

#73

Unread post by topiwala » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:27 pm

anajmi wrote:
allegedly the greatest Islamic movement since Prophet Muhammad walked on earth
A note to consider. This movement is considered to be Islamic only by people like fayyaaz.
Really, they are all wahhabis , thanks for accepting that wahhabis are not Islamic

See how that pilot was burned and see what excuse they are giving that they are taking revenge of coalition arstrikes which killed their familes. Such a revenge is allowed only in wahhabi setting.

anajmi
Posts: 13511
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: How Authentic Are The Bohra Versions Of Its Own History

#74

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:27 pm

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth - Mathew 5:38

araz5253
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:18 pm

Re: How Authentic Are The Bohra Versions Of Its Own History

#75

Unread post by araz5253 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:50 pm

"We ordained therein for them: 'Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal.' But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what God has revealed, they are (no better than) wrong-doers" [Quran 5:45].