Critical_Thinker wrote:I take your point but see no benefit or relevance in mocking matam as it is such a sacred tradition.
If the bohras want to do more matam or less matam, why does it bother you?
Do you think udaipur fought against the kothar because of matam?
May I suggest to attend the orthodox abde majlises and you will realize what was discussed on this forum. Maatam is indeed a sacred, purest form of expression of grief. My definition of maatam is not limited to thumping chest with palms, but even a humble tear in memory of gham-e-hussain or troubles faced by mumins to uphold humanity is suffice. Even today, I attend majlises standing in the corner with lowered head, listening to marsiyaas feeling gham-e-hussain is maatam for me. But when I raise my head and see the orchestra and dancing going on in the name of maatam is off-putting. There is whole tussle going on at masjid floor, which circle shouts the loudest to overcome the blaring louder speakers through which zaakirs are singing marsiyaas. Its not the maatam we see but a battle of shouts and yells. When this subdues, we see the announcer instructing people to do silent maatam, tulul umr maatam, final maatam ! then moment waza-e-funa begins, those azadar abdes will run in split seconds to grab their favorite thaal spot with friends and family ! now who is mocking maatam and gham-e-hussain ? from priest to commoners have dumbed down the essence of maatam.
Critical_Thinker wrote:Its a shame that you seem to be a fan of al zulfiqar. …..What you consider satire is really just abuse and insult.
You must start interacting more with abde jamaat members and you will know what abuse, insult, humiliation is about. Although I do not allow jamat members to insult me now. But I have been insulted or looked down upon when I was an abde. I see many abiding, bending, bowing mumins being mocked, ridiculed and shooed-off by hot headed amils, ayaans and jamat members. These jamaat members carry an air of superiority when they look at a mumin.
Attend one of the mikaats of Kothari fanfare, you will realize how money is more valued that one’s walayat ! how commoners are pushed, shooed off, grabbed, showed and pushed aside for a split second of kadambosi. Only a bag load of cash will get you an audience with DAI that too bending, bowing and looked down upon as a meagre peasant by the feudal lords of kothari kingdom.
My uncle-in-law was mocked in my nikaah ceremony, I wanted to confront the amil, but relatives stopped me at the fear of my marriage.
I was made to wait hours at devree for a simple raza, because I refused to offer money in salaam. Look at their moral depravity, the amil’s assistant enquired and instructed me to put a certain amount in the envelope to get an audience with Amil.
My father was put under undue influence to cough up monies demanded by jamaat to get misaak for us.
My father was forced by undue influence to grow a full beard when he went to take raza for my sister’s nikaah.
One of my widowed old aunty, suffering from financial crisis wanted to take a loan (qardan –hasana) of RS. 3-5 lacs. to buy a house, she was ready to pledge whatever gold she had. She was made to run pillar to post and eventually was advised to go to Mumbai from a remote town in Madhya Pradesh. She has arthritis and yet she took the trip in hope. In Mumbai Badri Mahal, she waited for hours and her application turned down with no reason given. Instead she got Rs. 50,000 as muwasat rakam. She returned disappointed.
One of our family friend, fully paying e-jamat, regularly attending mikaat, carrying maula’s photo in his pocked kind of abde, applied for a Qardan-hasana loan to start a business. He waited a long time, and every trip to devree for enquirees required a money salaam to amil and finally he got to know after much pursuance that his application was lost and then rejected for unknown reasons !
This is a free for all forum. Reader’s discretion is required, however AZ posts are over the top, sarcastic at its best and offensive on the face of abdes. At same time, abdes are no less, infact they are crude in their language with vulgar profanities. I ignore the posts that does not suit my sensibilities and I don’t loose sleep over it. One needs to be mentally tough to tolerate the discussions on this forum.
Critical_Thinker wrote:Let me ask you some questions humanbeing bhai:
Did rasulallah reform the arabs using satire/abuse/insult?
Did people convert to islam due to satire/abuse/insult?
If not, why not?
What is your opinion on the character and conduct of the prophet?
How did he teach people to speak and behave?
AZ or any one who are using foul language are not prophets nor they carry such intention to reform at the time of postings; satire, abuse or insults. these are dished out only to score points , take pot shots or massage their egos. These posts do not define reformist agendas, it is mere accessory of discussion and debates that go on here. These are distractions from all sides of the debates. Ignore it, enjoy it, denounce it, criticize it you are free.
There is no perfect forum nor the perfect world. The kind of decorum in discussion you dream to have can happen only in academic set ups.
Critical_Thinker wrote:No, the progressive jamaat does not do matam like this but I wouldnt know if the traditional jamaat do either.
I will ask some of my traditional friends and relatives about this and get back to you.
May I suggest ! don’t ask ! attend and see for yourself ! not once, twice or thrice, but regularly. See and experience yourself how orthodox bohra has evolved.
