A Message for the Munafiqs on this website

[MOHD HUSSAIN]

Mr Jah: I have supplied proofs number of times -A recent example-We provided you with the pictures of bohras wearing Safron Scarfs & garlanding the butcher Modi who was felicitated by Syedna recently- We gave you the copy of Mafinama of Syedna when he apologised for offending Sunnis- Etc--But when ever I asked Qiyam Or Simon some proof they disappear from the board for a while! So we asked you about the excerpt of Moharram Vaez of Syedna condemning Iraq war or condemning riots in Gujarat-There has been no response from you guys! so who is telling who?

[MOHD HUSSAIN]

Besides Mr Jah: I have not read any intelligent discussion coming from you except useless remarks on my statements! You don't seem to tolerate any comments on Syedna regardless!

[jahrastafari]

We provided you with the pictures of bohras wearing Safron Scarfs & garlanding the butcher Modi who was felicitated by Syedna recently

Where are these pictures you refer to Mohd Hussain??????. Certainly no links on this thread to any safron scarf wearing mumineen.

I have issue with you spinning everything you ever see or read on our sites to meet you own agenda. If it isn't mola meeting other VIP's its young people meeting eachother to try and find life partners. If it isn't that it's our language you don't like.

You don't seem to tolerate any comments on Syedna regardless!

Absolutely dead right - because you are not in any position to judge or with any reasonable evidence able to corroborate your statements with facts.

I have not read any intelligent discussion coming from you

Tell you what, you stop blabbering about anything and everything and start backing up your statements with facts and i'll promise you an intelligent discussion. Until then i guess we'ill all have to settle for your foolish chatterings

Spin it some more.....

[MOHD HUSSAIN]

Well ! search the topics & you will find it! I am not lying !It is on one of the topics on the butcher Modi! You love to say:"Spin it more"- You are the guys & the Kothar who love to spin the things around to suit their motives!

[jahrastafari]

There arn't any pictures are there?? That's the real reason why you can't show me anything isn't it?

Once again i expose you as the sneak that you are......

[MOHD HUSSAIN]

Well !Did you search in the old topics! I found it in 5 minutes -Go to topic-"Example of bohra Muslim women-Modi said"- (9/23/03)- Scroll down & you will see all the photos that will surprise you what your aqa moula does for a living! After seeing that you ought to apologise to me for being called sneak again & again! If not it will prove that you are just like other brain washed abde syednas!

[simon]

Yes, and Md Husain had stated that it was some Shahzada Sahebs walking with Modi. It turns out there were some ordinary Bohra folks. also he could not corroborate whether this photograph was taken in rajkot or ahmedabad. the reason why this is so important is rajkot election happened before the riots and ahmedabad election was after the riots

[MOHD HUSSAIN]

So what is the point scholar simon? Does that look Mr Modi any different? Did Moula change his ideology? What I heard in the news was that he even refused to wear the Bohra cap offered by Syedna? You are still trying to identify a sheep from the herd of sheep? Do the ordinary bohras do anything without the raza of Ammil Or Shahzada? Simon you still refuse to accept the facts as they have happened & no moaziza is going to change it!

[sinsaf]

. Further to my argument on Sayedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb being an insignificant religious leader.
According to recent estimation, the world population is around 6.3 billions, (63,000 millions). Among them Muslims are 12, 000 millions. Among them Dawoodi Bohras are just 10 to 12 millions.
So it is obvious that Dawoodi Bohra Community is a microscopic community even among Muslim communities in the world. And Sayedna Saheb being its head is most insignificant.
But it’s being a visible fact; there is nothing to be discussed about it. What is to be discussed is the strange logic, strange system, strange Shari ‘a, and strange domination of the priesthood existing in this community even in enlightened 21st Century.
We are taught that as Muslims we should start every thing with Bismillah, In the name of Allah who is merciful and beneficial. So the important is to be merciful and beneficial. Are we merciful? Are we beneficial?
As Dawoodi Bohras today all our religious and social activities are dominated by our priesthood. And if we are not merciful and beneficial blame naturally goes to priesthood.
I have already given the example of Parsi community which is 80,000 thousand in all but have done commendable social service for humanity at large and produced towering international personalities.
Take the example of one more microscopic community, our break away group, Sulemani Bohras. There is no domination of priesthood either in Parsi or Sulemani Bohras. Their local ‘Panchayats’ and Jammat have been given full freedom to utilize community’s funds. Sulemani Bohras Dai stays in Yamen and takes Misaq for Imam with no harsh and inhuman conditions introduced by our 51st Dai. There is no system of repressive Raza, Card, Sajda or forceful taxation. Most important they do not have to seek their Sayedna’s permission of blessing for any organizational or individual activities. Also the full credit is given to organizations and individuals rather giving credits to their Dai. Sulemani Bohra Dai also refrain from his publicity stunts and hardly known. But because of the freedom he has given to his followers, Sulemani Bohras have excelled in many fields. Ordinary Film-posters painter, Maqbool Fida Husain today is an internationally know painter. Dr. Salim Ali a pioneer Ornithologist (scientific search of Birds), Justice Badruddin Tayyebji, Fateh Ali Brothers, Dawood Fazalbhoy and many others.
In 1917 when a petition against 51st Dai was filed by Sir Adamji Peerbhoy's son for utilising a trust money for purchsing building of 'Badri Bahal (Chandabhoy Galla Case), there were 15,000 bohra signatories. They were all Bar-at-Laws, Solicitors, Doctors other well qualified bohras. That was the status of the Dawoodi Bohra Community then.
So a friend, according to Qura’n the important is to be merciful and beneficial. And not your being known to world politicians. Please think over without being sentimental.

[murtuza]

Dear Mumin 110

[murtuza]

Dear Mumin 110
"The adamjee peerbhoy 's sons...They used to say that they had enough money for seven generations....what happened???
They lost everythign within the lifetime of Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb AQ. They became beggars right in front of his eyes..."

You have forgotten one thing that ups and down is always there. even Imams and Dies are not spared by Allah. Once Moiz Imam (A.S.)was a ruler and had good wealth but Imam Taiyeb (A.S.) had lost every thing. So please do not give example of Adamji peerbhoy. How ever for your knowledge I gives you information that grand son of Adamji is running an advertising agency in Banglore in the name of "MAA" which is a leading agency and if you happend to go to Banglore you can see its existence.

Vassalam,

[sinsaf]

Friends, I missed one very important name among Sulemani Bohras. Prof. A.A.A. Faizy. He had done voluminous work on Ismailism and deposited his books with Bombay University library. His research work is world-wide acclaimed and referred as authentic source on Ismailism.
Some thirty years back I went that library and asked for some books of Faizy Saheb. Librarian asked my religion, sect and sub-sect and I wondered why? He told me there are written instruction by Faizy saheb not hand over any of his to Dawoodi Bohras. Reason? Under instructions of their Dai-ul-Mutlaq they would take away these book and destroy them.
This is an example of Islamic Scholar's opinion about our Daiz-Zaman!

[porus]

Originally posted by S. Insaf:
. ....Dawoodi Bohras are just 10 to 12 millions.

I thought the figure is between 1.0 and 1.2 million.

1.2 M out of 63,000 M people is .002%. Or 1 out of 50,000 people is a Bohra.

1.2 M out of 12,000 M Muslims is .01%. Or 1 out of 10,000 Muslims is a Bohra.

There are 2,000 Shia for every 10,000 Muslims. So 1 out of 2000 (.05%) Shia is a Bohra.

[mumineen]

Re. Sir Adamji Peerbhoy's: MAA Bozell of Bangalore

http://www.bangalorebest.com/cityresour ... bozell.asp

MAA Bozell, a joint venture between the MAA Group and Bozell Worldwide, is part of True North Communications, the world's sixth largest marketing communications group. Bozell owns 30% of MAA Bozell and some of its senior officers are on the board of the Indian company.

MAA Bozell was started in 1960 by the late Ayaz Peerbhoy as Marketing & Advertising Associates. Ayaz Peerbhoy, one of the doyens of Indian advertising, was well known for his business acumen as well as his creativity. His business intuition made him foresee the need for a truly Indian agency at a time when Indian products and services began coming of age. Originally based in Mumbai, MAA moved its Corporate Headquarters to Bangalore in 1981 after Ayaz Peerbhoy's death.

Bunty Peerbhoy, Ayaz's son, took over the company and the next few years witnessed rapid growth and diversification into a range of related marketing communication activities like Public Relations, Direct Marketing, etc., which made MAA the pioneer in Integrated Communications in India.

More than 40 years old, the company is ranked 10th among top 100 agencies listed in the A & M Agency Report. It employs about 150 people and all key posts are filled by professionals who have in depth experience in tackling brand issues and problems.

The Head Office at Bangalore is located in an impressive four floor building designed around an atrium with a rooftop garden and an internal waterfall. It functions as an independent entity, its main role being to provide support to all the other offices.

MAA Bozell is unique in that it believes in media neutral communications: advertising is not the default recommendation. The agency has offices all over India and the structure is highly decentralized. Each office is capable of handling its clients' needs independently. But, it can call on the services of any other office.

Key people:
Bunty Peerbhoy, Managing Director
Sadiqa Peerbhoy, Director
Surendra Ghosh, Financial Controller

Address:
MAA House, 6 Service Road, Domlur Layout, Bangalore 560071.
Phone: 91-80-535 8910 / 535 8497
Fax: 91-80-554 3891
Email: maa_bng@maa.co.in
Website: www.maa.co.in

Please also refer to: exerpts from:http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/may24/liv1.asp

Sadiqa and Bunty Peerbhoy of Maa Bozell Ltd., one of Bangalore’s better known advertising agencies, have been married for 32 glorious years. “We married in 1972,” says Bunty. “It was a love match,” explains Sadiqa. “I went to work in Bunty’s father’s advertising agency (MAA) in Bombay as a trainee copywriter and Bunty was a trainee marketing executive.The two of us were always picked to be the test models for campaigns to be approved by the client,” she laughs.
“As soon as we married we came to Bangalore and I took over the southern operations of Dad’s company. Later we collaborated with an American company and so we became MAA Bozell, the spin off agency from Dad’s original operations. We definitely found great strength in working together and did so very successfully for 20-25 years,” says Bunty with a tinge of pride in his voice.
“In order to work peacefully together we worked on a simple system,” explains Sadiqa, “Do not bring the office home or take home to the office.” It has obviously worked and that sage adage has been the cornerstone for a successful partnership both at home and in the office. “Only now we have branched out into two separate entities in that I am the head of academics for Wigan and Leigh which is a franchisee of the College in the UK. This is my way of giving back what I took from the industry,” explains Sadiqa.

Perhaps now the Kothari Bohris will ask for the DNA test to prove that the the Peerbhoys alluded to here are the grandchildren of Sir Adamji Peerbhoy.

[jahrastafari]

Mohd Hussain

Thanks for showing me where those pictures were on this message board. So there are some pictures of Mola and others meeting various people.....SO??

If anything that gives you even more of an opprotunity to spin things to meet your own ends

Those photos that were posted have no source information whatsoever. All we have to go on is that Insaf supplied them. Its not clear when they were taken, and the context in which they were orignally published. Where are the original newspaper articles that accompanied them huh?

There are no words other then what the administrator wrote. That gives you the opportunity to say anything you want about when these meetings took place and how biased it is that we meet with others from outside the community. They could have all been pre-godhra for all we know - before any riots took place or any murders. How many years has Shiv Sena been active in Mumbai politics? How many years has Thackeray been on the scene? Over 10 years - that's how many. These pictures could be from the mid 90's for all we know.

And besides who are you to judge who Mola meets or does not meet?? It is in the wider interests of the community to form good relations with politicians at all levels of government. You would do exactly the same if you were ever to become a leader yourself (unlikely!)

Again, thanks for showing me the pics, but if anything the spin you attach to anything we do and the negativity with which you portray any publicity we generate is highlighted even more by the lack of proper references and accompanying context you conviniently omit.

Spin some more.....

[jahrastafari]

Perhaps now the Kothari Bohris will ask for the DNA test to prove that the the Peerbhoys alluded to here are the grandchildren of Sir Adamji Peerbhoy

That would be a good start....

[observer]

Mohamed Husain why bother. Another Bohri who wants to sit in judgement. A favourite Bohri pastime as I told another person on this board. Just ask him to go to the mosque eat biryani and do what you do to your chest with vigour and everything will become good..and a sore chest to boot!

[MOHD HUSSAIN]

Thanks Br Observer- I guess that is an appropriate answer for mr Jah! Nothing is going to satisfy him!Looks like you(Jah) are pretty ignorant about the indian politics! Mr Modi was not in govt position in 90"s so it is highly unlikely that syedna will bother to greet him! Remember that all this political show is done to protect the vast illegal & criminal empire of kothar & it's vested interests & it has nothing to do to protect the community! (Sab apni apni soch!)

[qiyam]

Mohd Hussain,
In my discussion, you are the last to support your argument...and then accuse other of not doing so. It would be wise not to throw stones...you neither had Sayedna with Modi nor any context to you references.

Anwar,
It is odd that while arguing a point...evidence of that point is never brought by any of you. And by the way...have you explain the meaning of why one is a "chittiwala" and why not CORRECTLY.

S. Insaf gives a noble try...but his idea is to first downgrade the sect and it leader..not realizing he is weakening his entire argument by doing so. Sayedna's purpose is of a Dai..to lead our community in the Islamic path. Doesn't matter if the community is in the millions or in the thousands.

"As Dawoodi Bohras today all our religious and social activities are dominated by our priesthood. And if we are not merciful and beneficial blame naturally goes to priesthood."

--I fail to see where the preisthood dominates ALL our activities. When you go to work..is a mullah there...when you go home..is a mullah there? It is idiotic for you stretch ideas to such extreme.

And to bring up other communities as comparsion is just as ridiculous to support an argument. The Parsis believe in a fire god. Should be follow their example? I know some pretty nice and gentle atheists...why not follow them?

[Muslim First]

Qoute from br.qiyam

--Sayedna's purpose is of a Dai..to lead our community in the Islamic path.---

The true Islamic path is to follow Quran and Sunnah of our Prophet SAW.

Prophet never answered to prayer call like Bohra.

Prophet never clubbed prayers together regularly

Prophet never allowed to be addressed as Sultan and his children were not called Shahzada's and Shahzadis.

He did not call his family royal family.

He never believed in superstician.

Nobody performed Aarti of prophet.

Prophet did not allow Kadambosi.

He would never allow Sujud to him.

Islmic months were alwas begun after actual moon sighting and not after so called Haqiqi moon.

Would prophet allow cursing as part of ritual?

Grave worship?

Did prophet attech chitti to dead body?

If Bohra religion is true Islam as precticed by Prophet or Hz. Ali then I would t=rather convert to Christinity!

List is long.

Wasalaam anyway.

.

[qiyam]

MF,
we had these discussion...I gave you references for every issue. You caved in. Let's not do this again.

[jahrastafari]

Observer

Once again I am not judging you, rather asking you to corroborate your sources. You clearly cannot do that so you resort to making stupid remarks instead. You look and sound like a chump....

Mohd Hussain
You have clearly lost this one so give it up... Your arguments don't wash and you and your associates consistently make claims you cannot back up with proof. You reformists are revealed for what you really are - economical with the real truth.....

[Udaipuri]

At least he (observer) is not a 'chittiwala' chump like you. And that should count for something.

'economical with the truth' - aren't we being cute? The truth is in the economy, stupid! Sayedna's economy! :p

[jahrastafari]

I am not even gonna go there Udaipuri - Sticks and Stones....... I've been called much worse

Be humble enough to accept when you loose the argument and if you can't come back with any anything remotely intelligent or witty STFU.

[Muslim First]

Br. qiyam

AS

You do not cave ion but you give-up. It is fundamental belief of a Muslim in Tauhid of Allah SWT. Shahada of Muslims (“La iiaha- Illall Allah") has negative and positive aspects. Negative aspect is that you deny all gods and worship of people like Sultan Burhanuddin, Holy Family, Panjatan Paak, dead saints etc. etc. (this is a fact for Badruddin Bohra). For positive aspect you declare Allah as only God. I say Sultan Burhanuddin guides Bohras to worship Allah thru other deities, therefore not to true path as commanded in Qura’n and as taught to Muslims by Prophet SAW.

Wasallam

[qiyam]

MF,
What I meant by "caved in" is that I gave you proof from the Quran and sunni hadith reference to. You had no rebuttal.

And bohras do not worship Sayedna...he is a wasila and a guide to worshipping Allah ONLY. This is allow both in Quran and sunnah. We've had these discussions as well.

[Muslim First]

Br.qiyam's

And bohras do not worship Sayedna...he is a wasila and a guide to worshipping Allah ONLY.

Wasila: Brother qiyam, read Quran, How many Aya's testify that Allah permits us to apporach him directly, supplicate him directly.

Guide: What guidance? Guidance like come and do my Deedar frequetly as stated in recent Zikra or kiss my feet often. Bohra religion is worship of Sultan Burhauddin and his Royal family.

Wasalaam

.

[qiyam]

MF,
I have read the Quran...Allah also says to seek means of nearness to him. He also says for us to follow the awily'allah as guides.

Wasila was promoted by the Prophet...he himself said he is a wasilah to his ummah.

And if all you see is deedar and qadam bosi...then you know very little about bohras. Your snipet reply doesn't help your sincerity either.

[Anwar]

Br Qiyams reply "It is odd that while arguing a point...evidence of that point is never brought by any of you. And by the way...have you explain the meaning of why one is a "chittiwala" and why not CORRECTLY" What evidence do you expect? A signed and sealed letter from my guest?One thing you can be sure is,its nothing to be proud of to hear such a critisism of ones community, but then I couldnot argue with him either, as he had more to say about his personal experiences of Bohras as he knew them,either thru his work or social meets. I did not bring up the "chittiwalla" subject. You want an explaination of why one is chittiwalla? come on Br,are you trying to tell me you do not know what is a chittiwalla? One thing is for sure, you are one but not me. (I have been told that I cannot get a safai chitti as I have not paid some dues agreed at closed door gathering, and I wouldnt give a shit to this so called safaichitti/visa to enter haven)

[qiyam]

Anwar,
I do know...a chittiwala..as you so playfully call them...are person who pay the share in being part of a jamat and supporting that jamat. They are are more importantly those the uphold the pillar of Zakat..and have paid their zakat and khums (you know the wajibat). This is the minimum level of a chittiwala. The next is a person who uphold the traditions of the Prophet and attends the functions of the jamat regularly.

Did you explain that?

Or did you explain the reformist version? You know..they exhort money (money required of you by the Quran). They require you to doing things (things that are the traditions of the Prophet).