Taher Fakhrudin and related topics

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
I Rizwan
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:33 am

Re: Sticky: Dawoodi Bohra's Succession of Dai Case in Mumbai High Court

#331

Unread post by I Rizwan » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:32 am

Darus sakina was gifted by burhanuddin to Qutbuddin.

so how burhanuddin got money to buy that property? did he had any legitimate business? how did burhanuddin got saify mahal?



kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

#332

Unread post by kimanumanu » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:06 am

Just curious I Rizwan, are you saying these things against the Qutbuddin family because you have facts on them or are you just making accusations and painting them with the same brush as the rest of his now estranged family? This family has taken a stand and going by the ramblings of SMS and his kothar, this family has been a thorn for a good number of years even during SMB's lifetime. Does that not make you wonder if they are indeed as dirty as you are trying to paint them? Why would they be a thorn and a "dushman" if they had the same interests?



Saif53
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:39 am

#333

Unread post by Saif53 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:25 am

FROM QUTBI BOHRA BLOG
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2017/03 ... -nass.html
Urus and Nass
The tenets of Nass & Tawqeef have been explained in the past through multiple texts and sources; Nass can only take place with Tawqeef; in the presence of witnesses. (Read:Nass & Tawqeef: All you need to know)

The month of Jumada al-Ukhra marks the Urus Mubarak of two Dais. The 32nd Dai Syedna Qutbuddin Shaheed RA (27th Jumada al-Ukhra) and the 34th Dai Syedna Ismail Badruddin RA (23rd Jumada al-Ukhra).

Syedna Qutbuddin Shaheed RA was falsely imprisoned by Aurangzeb until his shahadat. However, Dawat texts duly emphasize on how Syedna Qutbuddin Shaheed RA, despite all odds, performed a clear Nass & Tawqeef at such a critical moment in time. The book Muntaza' al-Akhbar narrates how Syedna Qutbuddin RA performed the Nass on Syedna Feerkhan Shujauddin RA, and made Shaikh Mohammeed bin Malikjee and Najam Khan bin Chaandjee the witnesses to this Nass (أشهد على ذلك), while he was imprisoned.

Furthermore, in the Marisya of Syedna Ismail Badruddin RA, composed by Syedi Hasanjee Badshah QR provides the defition of Nass & Tawqeef. It states:
ما سار بدر الدين من هذي الدنى * الا اقام سليله بمكان
اعني زكي الدين قسقاس الورى * سمي بطيب طاهر الأبدان
بالنص و التوقيف بين خلائق * بشهادة النقبا، ذوي البرهان
[Translation]
Verse 1: (Syedna Ismail) Badruddin did not leave this world, until he appointed his son in (the) position (makaan).
Verse 2: (His son is Syedna Abdut) Taiyeb Zakiyuddin, who is the leader/guide of the world, and is one of pure bodies.
Verse 2: (Syedna Ismail Badruddin appointed Syedna Abdut Taiyeb Zakiyuddin) by Nass & Tawqeef - before the world - with the testimony (shadahat, witness) of hudood (noqabaa), who are men of proof (burhan).

-Marasiyah جاءت جيوش الهم و الاحزان, Syedi Hasanjee Badshah QR
Kanzul Maghani, Page 61
The above verse clearly specifies that Nass & Tawqeef is one that takes places with witnesses and proof.
***
Khuzaima Qutbuddin died on 23rd Jumada al-Ukhra 1437H. Since they share the same month, the Qutbi Bohras aim to draw comparisons between him and the 34th and 32nd Dai. The comparison would only be apt if he was actually appointed through Nass & Tawqeef, instead of claiming to be the Dai.
Khuzaima Qutbuddin maintained that his appointment was without any witnesses or proof - this is in violation of the tenets of Nass & Tawqeef. Similarly, his son Taher Fakhruddin hasn't been appointed with Nass & Tawqeef either. Till date there are no witnesses to this alleged Nass, nor any evidence. This has been discussed in detail in the following links:
How do the Qutbi Bohras know that Taher was appointed by KQ?
Dear Mr Taher - Part 1
Dear Mr Taher - Part 2
One of their reasons cited for the lack of availibility of witnesses is due to their claim of jealousy harboured by their enemies. Unfortunately for both of them and the state of their Dawat affairs, neither of Khuzaima's nor Taher's dawat could produce even two decent witnesses.
***
I quote the qasida of Syedi Hasan bin Idris QR which he wrote to Sulaiman, during his fitnat and false claim:
و ذا مقام عظيم لا يتم لمن * لم يأت بالنص توقيفا و توجيها
...
فهات لي مشبها ما قلت من حجج * هاتي لنا شاهدا ان كنت قاضيها
...
وكل دعوى اذا لم تأت بينة * كانت لعمري اباطيلا و تمويها
- Risalah – Ne’m Sibghah al Ilahiyyah (page 461) by Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA
Translation:
[…this (The rutba of Dawat) is a lofty position (maqaam e azeem) that cannot be claimed by the one who does not bring forth Nass & Tawqeef ... (Rasulullah appointed Moulana Ali through Nass & Tawqeef) ... so… bring me some proof ... bring us even one witness to your claim ... every claim (dawo) that doesn't have proof is baatil (false) and fabricated]

It is a beautiful coincidence that Syedi Hasanjee Badshah QR uses the word "burhaan" when referring to the proof of Nass.

To KQ and the Qutbi Bohras I challenge:
قل هاتوا برهانكم ان كنتم صادقين [Bring forth your burhan (proof), if indeed you are truthful]



ajamali
Posts: 303
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

#334

Unread post by ajamali » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:05 am

It's as if Saif50-50, the son of the envelope stealing khidmaguzar, was sitting around waiting for STF's waaz link to go live and then got to work with his poison pen....50-50 isn't there anything worth listening spoken by MS? In case your feeble brain is too addled by envelope stealing, that was a rhetorical question :roll: .

If you spent as much time on MS ghetas, teaching them basic right vs. wrong instead of looking to put your pseudo intellectualism to work on taabeyeen of Fatemi Dawat, perhaps you would not suffer such humiliation and public embarrassment... MS could not address a simple question - should Khafz (female circumcision) be done or not given the corruption of the practice and legal constraints - to his own people. And here you are questioning Fatemi Dawat people on arcane points.... I have not read this particular post...but I know it's arcane if your past history is any indication. You are such a yawner....



alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

#335

Unread post by alam » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:42 pm

Hey Saif53, are you Fake54 in baatin? or a puppet?

Isn't it about time you put fake53's (MS) bayaans and vaez online, for analysis and scrutiny. That would be fair, now wouldn't it?

As ajamali implied, you and your posts have become cliches and so boring. You pop up after every time FD posts some Bayaan by TF online, then give your opinion and runaway after a few slaps you get from folks here and there on this forum. Instead why don't you post something that's from the horse's mouth, that is if the horse MS gives you raza to record his bayans and put them out for debate.

Who cares for your puppet show, except give you the satisfaction of doing your slave duty by continuing to pop in and out like a puppet on a string.



zinger
Posts: 1872
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:40 am

#336

Unread post by zinger » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:01 am

Are there any Fatemi Dawat members here, who live in Mumbai? if so, could you PM me please?



alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

#337

Unread post by alam » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:21 pm

Hey Saif53, unless you are fake54 in baatin, you are under notice for your Qutbi blog.
Or maybe you are in charge of sending this "Misaal Sharifa" to ITS members?
viewtopic.php?p=174888#p174888

either way you are busted - oh Man!



Saif53
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:39 am

#338

Unread post by Saif53 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:51 pm

ajamali wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:05 am
It's as if Saif50-50, the son of the envelope stealing khidmaguzar, was sitting around waiting for STF's waaz link to go live and then got to work with his poison pen....50-50 isn't there anything worth listening spoken by MS? In case your feeble brain is too addled by envelope stealing, that was a rhetorical question :roll: .

If you spent as much time on MS ghetas, teaching them basic right vs. wrong instead of looking to put your pseudo intellectualism to work on taabeyeen of Fatemi Dawat, perhaps you would not suffer such humiliation and public embarrassment... MS could not address a simple question - should Khafz (female circumcision) be done or not given the corruption of the practice and legal constraints - to his own people. And here you are questioning Fatemi Dawat people on arcane points.... I have not read this particular post...but I know it's arcane if your past history is any indication. You are such a yawner....
And alam

The post doesn't have anything to do with Taher's speech.
Read an learn something from Duat History.
"Arcane" in your view?



alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

#339

Unread post by alam » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:11 pm

Perhaps some scholar from Fatemi Daawat can address the arguments. ???



ajamali
Posts: 303
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

#340

Unread post by ajamali » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:39 am

Saif53 wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:51 pm
ajamali wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:05 am
It's as if Saif50-50, the son of the envelope stealing khidmaguzar, was sitting around waiting for STF's waaz link to go live and then got to work with his poison pen....50-50 isn't there anything worth listening spoken by MS? In case your feeble brain is too addled by envelope stealing, that was a rhetorical question :roll: .

If you spent as much time on MS ghetas, teaching them basic right vs. wrong instead of looking to put your pseudo intellectualism to work on taabeyeen of Fatemi Dawat, perhaps you would not suffer such humiliation and public embarrassment... MS could not address a simple question - should Khafz (female circumcision) be done or not given the corruption of the practice and legal constraints - to his own people. And here you are questioning Fatemi Dawat people on arcane points.... I have not read this particular post...but I know it's arcane if your past history is any indication. You are such a yawner....
And alam

The post doesn't have anything to do with Taher's speech.
Read an learn something from Duat History.
"Arcane" in your view?
Seriously? You want me to learn from *you*? That's a joke. you and your leader have not answered the FGM question. Nor have you addressed MS's great dilemma about if Moulatuna Fatema will grant her shafaat to those who do not make roti (perhaps because they are too busy saving lives or inventing new materials...) also perhaps you could enlighten people why they are being sent sub-standard mass produced food when per MS speech, Dawood Nabi clearly laid out that the best food is prepared by one's own hands. Or maybe tell us why MS followers are not throwing their wives out of the house (as he instructed in his waaz) when tens of thousands of them clearly do not wear Ridas.

And Alam, I am positive that Fatemi Dawat scholars have better things to do than indulge Fake53's pseudo intellectual rants on this forum. Especially given that he does not address their Dai with respect. No one can be bothered to read his biased hateful blogs anymore, let alone answer them. They have been proven time and again to be filled with twisted versions of Dawat texts.

He should be mindful of his master's diktats and not discuss Dawat information ( or in his case, disinformation) in public forums!! At the minimum, he should first try to stop thievery in his following!!



I Rizwan
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:33 am

#341

Unread post by I Rizwan » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:46 am

Fatemi Dawat scholars
give us a favour and ask those "scholars" to explain following deeds of burhanuddin. also ask them was he really Dai?

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11308



Adam
Posts: 1253
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:50 am

#342

Unread post by Adam » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:01 am

alam wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:11 pm
Perhaps some scholar from Fatemi Daawat can address the arguments. ???
Yes. That has been the best proposal so far.
But they haven't. No answers.



alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

#343

Unread post by alam » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:39 pm

Fake53/fakeAdam54

How frustrating! We on this munaafekeen forum don't seem to get any traction whatsoever in engaging with the FD scholars. Where are they?

I guess my search for fatemidawat scholars ended up on on www.FatemiDawat.com - where it is open for the world to scrutinize. All answers seem to be over there with tons of information for open scrutiny and direct dialogue.

Also, there is a murmur out there that their FD Dai54 is preaching transparency with a renewed call for debate with a shehzada Mufaddal. On the other hand, misciefmakers at ITS ejamaat is sending warnings to people about keeping dawat affairs secret. One who is calling for transparency is absent here, while those calling for secrecy are open here.

Very fascinating dynamic indeed.



Moiz_Dhaanu
Posts: 304
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:57 pm

#344

Unread post by Moiz_Dhaanu » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:22 pm

@alam
From what I know about FD, any body who is sincerely interested in finding answers to questions they may have about true dawat , can get in touch with those on their website list (masool)(numbers are provided)

Your poignant observation in ur above post "One who is calling for transparency is absent here, while those calling for secrecy are open here. " ...this is not about FD people being absent here(on this forum)
...just like any thirsty person must go to the well, the well does not go to the thirsty..i am sure you are smart enough to understand my subtle hint..I wish you best of luck with your quest for the truth.



objectiveobserver53
Posts: 339
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:29 pm

#345

Unread post by objectiveobserver53 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:05 pm

It has been my experience that Fatemi Dawat scholars are most generous with their time and have answered questions of all skeptics and seekers. As long as you refrain from abuse and remain respectful, there is no reason why your questions would not be answered. Take this from someone who has made a long journey from skepticism to acceptance over two years and hundreds of emails, phone conversations and visits to Darus Sakina.

Having said that, I see no reason why Adam (the perv) or Fake53 should get time of day from Fatemi Dawat. They do not approach with the intent to learn and they never answer anyone's questions. Even a simple one Yes or No. Khafz or not? Because the letters from jamaat contradict MS' rants from the takhat. Educate daughters in all fields or limit them to home science? MS rants urge home science and propaganda material boasts of educated female followers... I can cite many examples. AJ listed some in an earlier post. Fake53 and Adam are being anything but transparent here. They only engage here to hurl insults at STF. I am disappointed that you do not see through that Alam.



Crater Lake
Posts: 292
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:46 pm

#346

Unread post by Crater Lake » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:25 pm

Let me remind people of the character of Adam and his new pseudonym Fake53. I would not be surprised if they are also phone romeos calling random numbers until they encounter a female voice....
FullSizeRender.jpg
You said it OO53, he is a perv who should not be allowed anywhere near dawat texts, let alone being allowed to mis-quote them for his twisted purposes. Can't believe some on this forum who pride themselves to be independent thinkers are allowing themselves to be taken for a ride by these charlatans.



alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

#347

Unread post by alam » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:52 pm

Crater, oo53, MOiz-d, Sorry to not be clear, but my post here was specifically addressed to Fake53 and fakeAdam54.

Fake53/fakeAdam, I renew my call to these 2 fakesters authors of their blog to man-up and post recordings of muffu speaking loud and clear, impromptu the way the FD people are doing of their Dai and princes on fatemidawat.com. What does muffu try to hide, yet again? That the emperor has no clothes ??
alam wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:39 pm
Fake53/fakeAdam54

How frustrating! We on this munaafekeen forum don't seem to get any traction whatsoever in engaging with the FD scholars. Where are they?

I guess my search for fatemidawat scholars ended up on on www.FatemiDawat.com - where it is open for the world to scrutinize. All answers seem to be over there with tons of information for open scrutiny and direct dialogue.

Also, there is a murmur out there that their FD Dai54 is preaching transparency with a renewed call for debate with a shehzada Mufaddal. On the other hand, misciefmakers at ITS ejamaat is sending warnings to people about keeping dawat affairs secret. One who is calling for transparency is absent here, while those calling for secrecy are open here.

Very fascinating dynamic indeed.
Last edited by alam on Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.



UnhappyBohra
Posts: 534
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:23 pm

#348

Unread post by UnhappyBohra » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:03 am

Adam wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:01 am
alam wrote:
Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:11 pm
Perhaps some scholar from Fatemi Daawat can address the arguments. ???
Yes. That has been the best proposal so far.
But they haven't. No answers.
why don't you teach your followers to stop stealing instead of wasting your time here hemming and hawing about Fatemi Dawat. Oh yeah, and answer the questions posed to you. Additionally, continue listening to the STF waaz, go to Fatemi Dawat website, engage their scholars with respect. Inshaallah some day you will receive the tawfeeq to understand some of it and your questions may be answered.



Crater Lake
Posts: 292
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:46 pm

#349

Unread post by Crater Lake » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:23 am

UnhappyBohra wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:03 am
Adam wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:01 am

Yes. That has been the best proposal so far.
But they haven't. No answers.
why don't you teach your followers to stop stealing instead of wasting your time here hemming and hawing about Fatemi Dawat. Oh yeah, and answer the questions posed to you. Additionally, continue listening to the STF waaz, go to Fatemi Dawat website, engage their scholars with respect. Inshaallah some day you will receive the tawfeeq to understand some of it and your questions may be answered.
Indeed. And do continue reading Sijil. You may learn a thing or two. And do not forget to declare to the world what a travesty it was that they issued ONE correction :roll:



dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 504
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

#350

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:58 am

I Rizwan wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:46 am
Fatemi Dawat scholars
give us a favour and ask those "scholars" to explain following deeds of burhanuddin. also ask them was he really Dai?

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11308
Adam,

The irony is that this issue originally started with IRizwan questioning the credentials of SMB to be a dai. Even if FD folks don't answer, why don't you and others from SMS side answer his questions and defend SMB. Or, are you looking for FD folks to defend SMB :)



ajamali
Posts: 303
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:51 am

#351

Unread post by ajamali » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:35 am

Given that the MS gag order (ITS message banning spread of information) made it on this forum and on whatsapp within moments, and given the uproar it has generated in both media, one wonders how many of those that get counted with MS, are actually supportive of him....

I feel like I am a member of a massive secret society the members of which rarely even reveal themselves to each other!



I Rizwan
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:33 am

#352

Unread post by I Rizwan » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:20 am

Adam is true mufaddali

Pervert
Hypocrite
Fake Alim
Ayyash
Ubash
Badmash
Duniya Lover
munafiq
fitnah khor
haraam lover


true quality of jhannami



kimanumanu
Posts: 607
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:16 pm

#353

Unread post by kimanumanu » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:46 am

ajamali wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:35 am
Given that the MS gag order (ITS message banning spread of information) made it on this forum and on whatsapp within moments, and given the uproar it has generated in both media, one wonders how many of those that get counted with MS, are actually supportive of him....

I feel like I am a member of a massive secret society the members of which rarely even reveal themselves to each other!
I am a member of the social club that is Mufaddali Fun Party :D



Truth-Prevails
Posts: 146
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:02 am

#354

Unread post by Truth-Prevails » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:07 pm

http://www.fatemidawat.com/news/events/ ... -meet.html

Syedna Fakhruddin TUS First Press Meet

25 March 2017

On Saturday March 24, 2017, Syedna Taher Fakhruddin TUS graced the first press meet by a Dai-l-Mutlaq in recent Dawat history. Syedna Fakhruddin’s presence and dialogue was immensely impactful and left an impression of confidence, clarity, vision, strength and graciousness on everyone’s heart.

The press meet began with an introduction to Dr Fehmida Ben Chipty who emceed the event: she is a graduate of Wellesley College and the University of Massachusetts Medical School, she is a practicing Gastroenterologist for 20 years in Boston, Massachusetts, USA, and she is the Mas’ul in Boston. Dr Fehmida Ben introduced Mr Anand Desai: the lawyer representing Syedna Fakhruddin TUS in the succession case, a leading, award winning lawyer in India, and founder of DSK Legal which today has 13 partners, 6 associate partners and over 100 lawyers across offices in Mumbai, Dehli and Pune. Mr Desai made a brief statement about the main issues and fundamentals of the succession suit in the Bombay High Court. Mr Desai answered questions concerning the status of the case and the evidence presented by Syedna Qutbuddin supporting his Nass.

After Mr Desai’s statement Dr Fehmida Ben introduced Syedna Fakhruddin. She highlighted Maulana’s unparalleled accomplishments in deen and dunya and offered gratitude for his compassionate guidance and courageous vision that he has charted for Mumineen, especially after the wafaat of Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin RA.

Syedna Fakhruddin delivered a 15-minute speech about the strong legacy of leadership in Dawoodi Bohra history, highlighting the clarity and sincerity of the mission of Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA, Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA, and Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin RA. Syedna Fakhruddin stated that leadership is not just about “staying with the times,” but about being “ahead of the times.” Syedna also explained that religion is not only about prayer, but about achieving one’s full potential in this world as well as in the next – while fulfilling our responsibilities towards others, especially the less fortunate. Syedna Fakhruddin outlined his vision for the community: bringing women at par to men in higher education, accountability and transparency in governance, a scale of piety and goodness and not wealth and power. Syedna then answered questions from journalists about the future of the community, khafz, the court case, and many other matters.

A large number of print and digital media outlets reported on the press meet including Times of India, DNA, Free Press Journal, Mid-Day, India Today, Business Standard, the Hindu, Asian Age among others. A selection of the articles are published on FatemiDawat.com. This is an excerpt from the article published in India Today, Transparency in religious affairs will help community: Syedna:

"I want the Dawoodi Bohra community to live in peace and harmony," said Syedna Fakhruddin at his first press conference after he was anointed as the 54th Dai al-Mutlaq of Dawoodi Bohra Community on November 8, 2015 by his father and the then spiritual leader.

Syedna was speaking on the alleged growing disharmony within the community regarding the succession of the religious head of the community.

The Bombay High Court had recently allowed the plea by Syedna Taher Fakhruddin Saheb seeking to continue the succession battle initiated by his late father Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin Saheb against Shahzada Muffadal Saifuddin over the title of Dai al-Mutlaq or Syedna -- the religious leader of the Dawoodi Bohra community.

Speaking about the division of loyalties among the community members, Syedna Fakhruddin said, "My community members understand what we stand for -- our morals, ethics and principles. I trust them to make an informed decision as to their faith and leadership."

Syedna Fakhruddin said, "We have full faith in Indian courts and believe that they will rule in (favour of) the truth, in the interest of the community. We would like to expedite the matter in the court in the best interests of the community."

...

"My effort would be to bring all the people of the community together and propagate that Dawoodi Bohra members are part of India. My father did the same and I would continue to follow suit," Syedna Fakhruddin said.

...

"We (members of the community) are very progressive and I want them to be ahead of time," the Syedna said.

Inshallah video excerpts from the press meet will be published soon.



Biradar
Posts: 828
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

#355

Unread post by Biradar » Mon May 22, 2017 8:50 pm

I Rizwan wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:32 am
Darus sakina was gifted by burhanuddin to Qutbuddin.
No.



Saif53
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:39 am

#356

Unread post by Saif53 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:13 pm

FROM THE QUTBI BOHRA BLOG
A wave or puff of air? Sijill #169
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2017/06 ... l-169.html
In Sijill #159, Abdeali Saifuddin offers his thoughts about the wafaat of Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA. Unfortunately, it is evident that Abdeali is disconnected from the facts and is in desperate need of a reality check.
His words are in red, followed by my comments in black.

“The darkness of the night after Syedna Burhanuddin RA passed away lasted for many days - the sun of our lives, Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin was no more.”


Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA indeed was the sun of our lives, he was the sun amoungst the Duat Mutlaqeen RA. The Qutbi children were born, bread and brought up during his golden era. However, they didn’t even spare to shed a tear on his wafaat. If one were to compare their greif for Khuzaima Qutbuddin’s death, and the absence of it after Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin’s RA tragic wafaat, the hypocrisy couldn’t be more evident. In their speeches, they continuously forget to mention Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA. The Taqreeb speech by Aziz Qutbudddin is one of the latest examples; Aziz speaks for 15 mins, makes detailed references to Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA, KQ and TQ, and doesn’t even once mention Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin’s RA name.[1] So much for being the “sun” of their lives.

“Our beloved Dai’s janaza mubaraka was to be taken to Saifee Masjid from Saifee Mahal the morning after wafaat. The usurpers had done their homework - they had planned the takeover meticulously”


Abdeali makes it seem as if the succession of Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS was a secret conspiracy that was being done in the shadows. However, the Nass & Tawqeef on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin TUS had taken place 3 years prior to that. Public events were held, including his own proclamation, even the Qutbuddin’s were aware of it, and offered their congratulations.[2]
The moment mumineen heard the tragic news of the Syedna’s RA demise, there wasn’t a shred of doubt as to who his successor was. If at all, it was the Qutbuddin’s that has made their own plans in the shadows, by preparing their 'Fatemi Dawat' fitnat months in advance.[3] [4]

“They had shamelessly abused the person of the Dai for their own ends, both in the years before Syedna Burhanuddin’s wafaat and then in the hours after wafaat. Before wafaat, they took Syedna Burhanuddin from place to place in an extreme state of infirmity to fulfil their self-serving agenda of trying to legitimize their fraud in the eyes of people.”


The Qutbuddin’s have passed accusations in the passed that Syedna RA was brought to India from London against his own will. However, Syedna’s RA own doctor, Dr. John Francis Costello testified that the Syedna RA himself, on many occasions, expressed his wish to go to Mumbai. He further testified that one year later, in London, Syedna RA was delighted to meet him and shook his hand for a long time.
Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA happy to meet Dr Costello 2 years later in 1434H


Let us also not forget that Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA conducted the first waaz mubarak of Ashara 1433H.
However, If things were as Abdeali alleges they were, then it begs the question as to where KQ, and the Qutbuddin clan was to help and sacrifice themseleves for the Dai and the Dawat? Surely Syedna’s health and the “Dawat Hijacking” was more important to them than spending time on their farm in Bakersfield. Please read: Where was the Hero & Champion in this critical time?

“Four days before wafaat, they even brought him to Rozat Tahera for a program which was hours long, all through which Syedna Burhanuddin’s eyes were closed.”

Firstly, the Qutbis weren’t even present in Raudat Tahera to comment. Secondly, if the Dai’s eyes were closed momentarily, have they forgotten the Fatemi tasawwur that ‘even when their eyes are shut, they are indeed alert”? Read:

https://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... art-1.html

https://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... art-2.html

https://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... art-3.html

Such comments are proof of how shallow their belief in the Dai is.



It’s ironic that they talk about this occassion 4 days prior to wafaat, when they conveneiently forget that around the same time, in Saify Mahal, KQ and his clan barged in do salaam to the Syedna RA. Where was their alleged consideration for Syedna RA then?.

“After wafaat they put our beloved Dai’s janaza mubaraka out in the open, displaying it for the world to see – this had never been done before in the history of the Imams and Du’at Mutlaqeen.”


The Qutbis need to do their homework and read up on their Fatemi history. Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA in his Risalah Shareefah, states that Rasulullah’s wafaat was on a Monday. Moulana Ali AS prepared the janaza Mubarak and then instructed mumineen to enter the room, do deedar and and recite salwaat on Rasulullah SAW. This continued from Monday to Wednesday, and Rasulullah SAW was buried on Thursday (3 days later).[5]

There are other examples in Fatemi history. The most recent being that of of Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA. Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA states that when Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA jussah mubarakah was brought to Mumbai by train, crowds of mumineen gathered. ‘They would shift their gazes toward the jussah mubarakah and then turn toward Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA’.[6]


Finally, as usual, the Qutbis shoot themselves in the foot, because Khuzaima Qutbuddin in his own video[7] says that after Syedna’s RA wafaat, KQ entered his ghurfah mubarakah, and did “deedar” of the Syedna RA. Husain Qutbuddin later clarifies that KQ proceeded to kiss the Syedna’s RA forehead.[8] Why is it okay for KQ to do it and not others? If he thought anything was unislamic, he didn’t need to be a part of it. He is accusing others of something he himself did.

This sharaf of doing deedar of a Dai’s jussah mubarakah is a Fatemi practice. The 53rd Dai, Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin RA did not limit it to his royal family, but extended this azeem sharaf to all mumineen.

“That morning tens of thousands of people gathered for the janaza mubaraka… Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin RA spent the previous eve (17 Rabiul Awwal 1435H/ 18 January 2014), with one overwhelming concern: leading the janaza namaaz of his beloved predecessor Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA. Syedna Qutubuddin wrote a letter to Shz Qaid Johar Bhaisaheb and Shz Mufaddal Bhaisaheb informing them that he was the true successor of Syedna Burhanuddin and that he was the 53rd Dai-l-Mutlaq, and therefore it was his right to lead the janaza namaaz of his predecessor Syedna Burhanuddin. There was no reply to the letter.”


First of all, Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin RA passed away during the morning hours on the 16th of Rabi al-Awwal 1435H. KQ didn’t need to wait until the the next day, on the 17th for his “one overwhelming concern: leading the janaza namaaz”. After wafaat Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin RA was still enroute to Mumbai and reached a few hours later in the evening. KQ had enough time to lead the rituals, or at the least make his claim public. Why didn’t he inform the others of his position before Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin’s TUS arrival? Why did he first choose to elope and make his claim a day later? Was he scared?

Secondly, the letter. The Qutbis make no reference as to when this letter was delivered, and moreso, IF it was delivered. This poorly formatted letter was carelessly written - so much that it was edited 3 times. In the first version, they forgot to write the Bismillah (deleted from their website), in the second KQ signs of as اقل عباد الله (deleted from their website), and in the last version which finally stuck, KQ signs of of مملوك ال محمد - clearly indicating that the Qutbis were just as confused as he was. The letter didn’t even bear an original signature; KQ’s signature was scanned from another document and inserted in the letter as an image.


Later, “at around 2.30am on this same night” KQ revealed his claim to his private gathering in Thane. It was not made public “to the world” until the next day.

Although the drafting of the letter may have started after KQ reached Thane on Friday night, the PDF version of this letter was sent via email to Dawoodi Bohras at around 10am on Saturday 18th January, roughly around the time the Janaza had left Saify Mahal already enroute to Raudat Tahera.The Qutbis vehemently assert the existence of this letter, however, they do not confirm when nor how it was sent - and whether the intended letter delivered or read by the intended recipient.


Forget the fact that such a carelessly drafted letter would be taken seriously by any academic, it begs the question as to why a letter was written in the first place? Why couldn’t KQ have just spoken up, or after he ran-away spoken directly and confirmed his position? Since we have no details of the method of delivery, considering the emotional atmoshphere, how would the alleged recipient have even known if it was authentic?

Did the Qutbis really expect that while the janaza mubarakah was moving through the crowds, people would would be in the frame of mind to be checking their emails let alone respond to it? Further, later that day, whenever people did start to read the letter emailed to them, did the Qutbis really expect someone to take this letter - a poorly formatted rushed-job document, with a doctored image of a signature - seriously? It could have been forged by someone trying to take advantage of the situation - as it was along the lines of munafiqeen parchawo that have been published in the past.


“From Darus Sakina, Syedna Qutbuddin’s bayaan was made available to all Mumineen all over the world, in which he conveyed that he was the true successor of Syedna Burhanuddin, he was the 53rd Dai-l-Mutlaq, and it was his right to lead the janaza namaaz of his predecessor Syedna Burhanuddin.”

Later that day, the Fatemi Dawat site went live, with the letter and a message stating KQ’s claims, and a note saying that a video would be uploaded soon. Until that moment, many people including myself did not take it seriously, and continued to give KQ the benefit of the doubt, and hoped that this was not his doing, and there would be some other reason for his absence. It was only after 4pm on Saturday evening that KQ’s video was uploaded the his website - and only then did people hear his claim “from the horse’s mouth”.


Yes. KQ’s statement went live, but Abdeali conveniently forgets that it was after 36 long hours! After the dafan had already taken place.

“In the face of such an enormous tragedy, immense heart crushing difficulties continued to arise – the 53rd Dai-l-Mutlaq was denied the right to lead the janaza namaaz of his predecessor.”


Correction. No one denied KQ, because no one knew his position (and to be fair, hardly anyone noticed he was missing). KQ didn’t bother to turn up. He could have easily been a part of the janazah namaaz by camouflaging himself between the thousands, or hid in one of the hundreds of apartments from which the imamat janzah namaaz stretched till. It praying janazah namaaz behind Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin would not have affected his claim according to Fatemi fiqeh.

“The usurpers continued to misuse Syedna Burhanuddin’s janaza mubaraka. In yet another self-serving step with no historical precedent, they unashamedly placed the janaza mubaraka on a truck, and sat next to it. Syedna Burhanuddin had walked behind the janaza mubaraka of Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA all the way from Saifee Mahal to Saifee Masjid, and Mumineen carried the janaza mubaraka on their shoulders the entire journey. The sunnat of Rasulullah is that a janaza should not be put on a vehicle unless it is necessary. After Syedna Burhanuddin’s wafaat, there was no shortage of people to carry the janaza mubaraka – Syedna Burhanuddin was our beloved Dai, the loving father of all Mumineen.”

All of the above-mentioned allegations have been refuted in the past (from the truck to walking in front of a janazah). Please read: http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2014/11 ... l?q=Janaza


Conclusion

Since the time of the Africa Episode[9], whenever KQ disagreed with Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin’s RA judgements, he would claim that the Syedna RA was unaware of the facts, or influenced by liars. Throughout Abdeali’s article he refers to the Dawoodi Bohras as usurpers, and relates to them as a group that hijacked the Dawat, forced the Dai to say and do things things against his wishes. I request the Qutbi clan to look at these pictures and videos from the years 1432 to 1435H and think for a moment: Does this portray the Syedna RA in complete peace or being forced against his will? Read:

"Guidance through history"
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2014/12 ... story.html


The Qutbi Bohras continue to believe that Syedna was wrongly influenced before, during and after the nass on Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin RA. They maintain that Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin’s RA subsequent majalis - hijacked by usurpers - were ones of deception and lies. They refuse to believe that the Syedna RA was the مقعد صدق (the seat of truth), and that his majlis pure of lies.

In this regard, the words of the 5th Dai, Syedna Ali bin Moula Mohammed b. al-Waleed RA are most apt. It is narrated that certain munafiqeen had accussed Syedna Hatim RA of being influenced by liars. Syedna Ali RA exclaims:

انى يكون بسوح سمع مقامك الـ *ـسامي لقول الافكين مخيم؟

ضلت عقولهم و قهقر سعيهم * أ بنفخ ريح يستفز يلملم؟[10]

Translation: How is it possible that liars ‘pitch their tents of deception’ in your august presence? [Never!]

[Those who claim this,] their intellect has gone astray, and all their efforts are invain. [Do they think that] a puff of air would shake the mountain of Yalamlam?

Their fitnat is a too weak to be referred to as a wave. The continuous mutterings of the Qutbi Bohras are nothing but hopeless 'puffs of air' from those who have surely gone astray.

[1] Youtube video: Taqreeb Conference 2016 - Shehzada Dr Aziz Qutbuddin's Opening Speech
[2] Read Article: 'Attended majlis where successor was announced'. KQ even confirmed the good news on their website: https://believesyednaqutbuddin.files.wo ... t_then.jpg
[3] http://www.hindustantimes.com/mumbai/ta ... kHUkJ.html
[4] https://believesyednaqutbuddin.com/2014 ... t-of-nass/
[5] (Page 337, Risalah Fuyoozaat al-Jannah, Published in 1430H)
[6] (Page 176, Risalah Hikmah al-Ghaybah al-Haqiqiyah, Published in 1429H)
[7] Youtube video: Bayaan of Nass by 53rd Dai Syedna Khuzaima Qutbuddin TUS at 4m:30s.
[8] Q&A Part 4 Why should you believe Qutbuddin Moula TUS at 00m:37s
[9] Read:
https://believesyednaqutbuddin.com/2014 ... of-essays/
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2015/03 ... l?q=Africa
http://qutbibohras.blogspot.com/2015/12 ... l?q=Africa



allbird
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:01 am

#357

Unread post by allbird » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:55 am

By getting involved in pages and pages of blog arguments and counter arguments we tend to forget both SMB and SKQ live their lives like Kings on peoples money. Both shamelessly usurp finances saying Khuda no Haaq. Lets get our heads out of this blogs step back and think. They sneezed and were rushed to Germany and London for consultation while we die of hunger and disease and can't even get free treatment at Saifee hospital. We couldn't even do salam without them using a Rumal as bearer. I wonder why they never wore disposable surgical gloves rather during Qadam bosi. Conclusion they both were untouchables.



dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 504
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

#358

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:01 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLoY ... GdXRM_tFEQ

Nice interview, but saying that the Dawoodi Bohra community had 100% literacy in 1947. What? That makes no sense to me. [At about time 1 minute and 40 seconds.] I guess it depends how one defines literacy :)

Also, saying that currently 92% of Bohra women have past 10th grade ? May be in Mumbai, but all over India, even now this looks very high.

Any thoughts?



alam
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

#359

Unread post by alam » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:27 am

Well DCP, you have a point there. More questions come up, like how many people were surveyed. What defined literacy. Is it being able to read and write in at least one language? Or is it 10th standard or 5 th standard? I don't believe that in 1947 there was 100% literacy even in Bombay. I too wonder how they come up with the conclusion, and more details of the studies that are undertaken.

My only big problem with the interview has to do with the idea of right and wrong, and that right cannot mix with wrong. I do not think it's as black and white, but that's besides the point. I do not believe the dialogue and narratives focused on right vs wrong is going to unite our community community. It is far more complicated than that. There is the nature of facts, multiple contradictory facts, perspectives based on one sides history with certain facts, and human errors of selection bias or choosing to pay attention to only facts that fit with ones worldview, and disregard facts that contradict your worldview. The focus of uniting the community is nothing but a fantasy, which is harmless if indulged in sparingly.

I would say the Jalaluddin Rumi offers deeper wisdom "Somewhere between wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there".

It would take a revolution in deepening and expanding insights and wisdom, and perhaps a few generations, if at all, for bringing unity in our community, or perhaps a miracle.



dal-chaval-palidu
Posts: 504
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46 am

#360

Unread post by dal-chaval-palidu » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:08 pm

alam wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:27 am
Well DCP, you have a point there. More questions come up, like how many people were surveyed. What defined literacy. Is it being able to read and write in at least one language? Or is it 10th standard or 5 th standard? I don't believe that in 1947 there was 100% literacy even in Bombay. I too wonder how they come up with the conclusion, and more details of the studies that are undertaken.

My only big problem with the interview has to do with the idea of right and wrong, and that right cannot mix with wrong. I do not think it's as black and white, but that's besides the point. I do not believe the dialogue and narratives focused on right vs wrong is going to unite our community community. It is far more complicated than that. There is the nature of facts, multiple contradictory facts, perspectives based on one sides history with certain facts, and human errors of selection bias or choosing to pay attention to only facts that fit with ones worldview, and disregard facts that contradict your worldview. The focus of uniting the community is nothing but a fantasy, which is harmless if indulged in sparingly.

I would say the Jalaluddin Rumi offers deeper wisdom "Somewhere between wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there".

It would take a revolution in deepening and expanding insights and wisdom, and perhaps a few generations, if at all, for bringing unity in our community, or perhaps a miracle.
Bhai Alam, You said it well above, and that is the problem I have with these statements. When they make such claims as the above, I become skeptical of other claims that they make. For example, they say the truth is that "Nass was done on SKQ". But then if you claim as truth that the community had 100% literacy in 1947, that makes me skeptical of the nass claim.

Which is why clear proofs and ruling by an independent authority (like a judge of the high court) helps. My request to STF saheb and the Fatemi Dawat folks is to be reasonable in making such claims, not make extraordinary claims, as that hurts their credibility.

I still believe that SKQ sahib was correct in the claim of nass on him, but please, FD folks, make reasonable claims.