It’s a civil law-suit. He cannot be forced (subpoenaed) to testify. He actually does need said balls in order to appear in court. So unless he grows a pair, he ain’t coming. He may designate someone. Having said that, it would be a lot of fun to see him in court. His keen intellect would really shine through!!momeenbhai wrote: ↑Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:49 amcourt calls every one. balls or no balls.
amazed why he is not been called yet.
Also, his “truthfulness” would mesmerize!! Legal Update January 2019
From what you have written, it is evident that you are speaking from your heart and not grand-standing.Qadir wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:14 pmCorrect me if I am wrong, many progressives believe that Syedna AbdulQadir Najmuddin was not a rightfully selected dai, right?
Now when the judge overseeing the Chandabhoy Galla Case, upheld the right of Syedna Taher Saifuddin as the rightful Dai al Mutlaq, and hence legally accepting Syedna AbdulQadir Najmuddin as rightful Successor to Syedna Mohammed Badruddin, why didn't you accept the verdict.
Now I don't exactly know the beliefs of progressive and maybe the above statements might not be true for them, but I am confident that Syedna Aaliqadr is the rightful successor to Syedna Burhanuddin not because a judge thought it was correct but because my soul thought it was correct. Our beliefs are what makes us who we are, what are we if our beliefs can be changed so easily. I wouldn't place my bets that if SMS finally wins the case, TF's followers will leave his side. Nor would I assume that when Imam-uz-Zaman does zuhur progressives will accept him because the dai said he his Imam uz Zaman and not the court.
It is literally pointless to wait for the verdict if you consider spirituality to be in question. The question is about billions of dollars worth of properties and waqf spaces. Also, I wouldn't think that TF would get right to masjids inaugurated by SMS due to waqf board rules. Once again, I will stand by SMS just like lakhs of other mumineen not just because he won the case or not but because we believe he is our dai.
Can you enlighten us what what was the "truth" in your statement "the truth dawned on me finally"? What made this "truth" dawn on you?
The truth that perhaps Muffadal Maula, even though he may have been "chosen" as the Dai, is perhaps:Biradar wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:47 pmCan you enlighten us what what was the "truth" in your statement "the truth dawned on me finally"? What made this "truth" dawn on you?
Also, in general, I agree with Qadir. This case is not really about determining who is the da'i. People have picked sides and nothing will change at this point. A judge can't determine matters of personal faith. In fact, the judge will essentially ask the two sides to share various properties and resources, but will not make a definitive statement on who the da'i is. He can't as he has no authority to do so.
The judge is indeed not going to pick the dai - you are right, he has no authority. He is going to rule, based on evidence presented, whom Burhanuddin Moula picked as Dai.
I believe there will be a change in the followers dynamics if the ruling goes in TF's favour. Dawoodi bohras are not just a sect of islam but a full fledged socialist organization. Without 90% of the halls, jamaats and other structures, controlling the mass will not be easy. I understand that the judgement will only be applicable in India and to gain control over the rest of the world's structures, he will have to fight cases in all of them but if his support in India grows, that feeling will surely trickle to bohras in other countries.. As far as Waqf board rules go, hardly any significant landmarks have been made waqf by MSzinger wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:12 amFrom what you have written, it is evident that you are speaking from your heart and not grand-standing.Qadir wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:14 pmCorrect me if I am wrong, many progressives believe that Syedna AbdulQadir Najmuddin was not a rightfully selected dai, right?
Now when the judge overseeing the Chandabhoy Galla Case, upheld the right of Syedna Taher Saifuddin as the rightful Dai al Mutlaq, and hence legally accepting Syedna AbdulQadir Najmuddin as rightful Successor to Syedna Mohammed Badruddin, why didn't you accept the verdict.
Now I don't exactly know the beliefs of progressive and maybe the above statements might not be true for them, but I am confident that Syedna Aaliqadr is the rightful successor to Syedna Burhanuddin not because a judge thought it was correct but because my soul thought it was correct. Our beliefs are what makes us who we are, what are we if our beliefs can be changed so easily. I wouldn't place my bets that if SMS finally wins the case, TF's followers will leave his side. Nor would I assume that when Imam-uz-Zaman does zuhur progressives will accept him because the dai said he his Imam uz Zaman and not the court.
It is literally pointless to wait for the verdict if you consider spirituality to be in question. The question is about billions of dollars worth of properties and waqf spaces. Also, I wouldn't think that TF would get right to masjids inaugurated by SMS due to waqf board rules. Once again, I will stand by SMS just like lakhs of other mumineen not just because he won the case or not but because we believe he is our dai.
While i cannot speak for the others, i for one certainly respect that. i was once just as confident about Mufaddal Maula being the Dai, as much as you are, but i guess the truth dawned on me finally.
What i appreciated about your post was not just the honesty-from-the-heart but that you did not resort to name calling and mocking and abusing, something which is so rare on this site these days
I think i will tend to agree with Qadir on this one. It seems very unlikely, that whatever the outcome of the case will be, majority will change side. yes, a few definitely might, but i think most will prefer to stay put where they are. the reason could either be brainwashing, or it could be that they genuinely believe that Burhanuddin Maula has done nass on himkseeker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:07 pmI believe there will be a change in the followers dynamics if the ruling goes in TF's favour. Dawoodi bohras are not just a sect of islam but a full fledged socialist organization. Without 90% of the halls, jamaats and other structures, controlling the mass will not be easy. I understand that the judgement will only be applicable in India and to gain control over the rest of the world's structures, he will have to fight cases in all of them but if his support in India grows, that feeling will surely trickle to bohras in other countries.. As far as Waqf board rules go, hardly any significant landmarks have been made waqf by MS
You must be right on the points above but my question to you is brainwashed again by whom? By Mufaddal Maula and his camp into making masses believe that the court case is all wrong or by Fakhruddin Maula and his camp that he has been victorious and is the righteous Dai?kseeker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:07 pmQadir - Your statements are based on the thought that every follower of MS is a loyal one who will follow him no matter where but the truth is the majority of our community did not even know his name until he was selected to be the mansoos... the population has been brainwashed ever since with stories of his great contributions to the jamea studies and Hakimi masjid in Misr.. did you ever hear about those before he became the mansoos? I have been to Misr twice before he became mansoos and stayed in the DB facilities, on both occasions we were given history lessons but never was MS mentioned... anyways, my point is that if people can be brainwashed once, they can be brainwashed again....
Again, i will probably tend to disagree. While the kothar is definitely a nuisance, it is seen as a minor nuisance by most people, as long as they are in the daaman of Mufaddal Maula. most people in my jamat are of that opinion, that kothar ka kaam hain lootna, but Mufaddal Maula is there, he will give back much more to us and he is giving much more to us, by allowing us to be with himkseeker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:07 pmMoreover, there are many people who are not die-hard followers and just going with the flow, if the case goes against MS, they will get a bit more courage and freedom to explore the TF arena...most of our brethren put up with the kothar crap because sadly, we are more worried about how and where we are going to be buried when we die than what deeds we do while we are alive. If TF gets majority of those spots, the masjids, he will surely get a larger following...
kseeker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:07 pm1. Like you said yourself, a judge or a case cannot decide who the Dai is.. just like you would not leave MS if he lost the case, progressives won't believe STS was rightful just because he won a case
I dont think that that is the official stand of reformists. I would suggest that you couch it as a personal opinion
Ofcourse, this goes without saying. even if the true Imam came and stood in front of the Bohra crowd today, i personally feel most people would be sceptical, unless authenticated by Muffadal Maula.kseeker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:07 pm2. You question if the progressives will accept the Imaam when he does zuhoor, my question is will the MS followers accept the Imaam when he does Zuhoor?..because just like you assume progressives would not accept an Imam pointed out by the current DB clergy, the progressives assume you would not accept an Imam unless validated by the DB clergy....
1. they genuinely 'believe' he is the rightful leader even though there is no proof of nass - the only way for any sane person to get there is brainwashing.zinger wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:24 amI think i will tend to agree with Qadir on this one. It seems very unlikely, that whatever the outcome of the case will be, majority will change side. yes, a few definitely might, but i think most will prefer to stay put where they are. the reason could either be brainwashing, or it could be that they genuinely believe that Burhanuddin Maula has done nass on himkseeker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:07 pmI believe there will be a change in the followers dynamics if the ruling goes in TF's favour. Dawoodi bohras are not just a sect of islam but a full fledged socialist organization. Without 90% of the halls, jamaats and other structures, controlling the mass will not be easy. I understand that the judgement will only be applicable in India and to gain control over the rest of the world's structures, he will have to fight cases in all of them but if his support in India grows, that feeling will surely trickle to bohras in other countries.. As far as Waqf board rules go, hardly any significant landmarks have been made waqf by MS
You must be right on the points above but my question to you is brainwashed again by whom? By Mufaddal Maula and his camp into making masses believe that the court case is all wrong or by Fakhruddin Maula and his camp that he has been victorious and is the righteous Dai?kseeker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:07 pmQadir - Your statements are based on the thought that every follower of MS is a loyal one who will follow him no matter where but the truth is the majority of our community did not even know his name until he was selected to be the mansoos... the population has been brainwashed ever since with stories of his great contributions to the jamea studies and Hakimi masjid in Misr.. did you ever hear about those before he became the mansoos? I have been to Misr twice before he became mansoos and stayed in the DB facilities, on both occasions we were given history lessons but never was MS mentioned... anyways, my point is that if people can be brainwashed once, they can be brainwashed again....
Again, i will probably tend to disagree. While the kothar is definitely a nuisance, it is seen as a minor nuisance by most people, as long as they are in the daaman of Mufaddal Maula. most people in my jamat are of that opinion, that kothar ka kaam hain lootna, but Mufaddal Maula is there, he will give back much more to us and he is giving much more to us, by allowing us to be with himkseeker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:07 pmMoreover, there are many people who are not die-hard followers and just going with the flow, if the case goes against MS, they will get a bit more courage and freedom to explore the TF arena...most of our brethren put up with the kothar crap because sadly, we are more worried about how and where we are going to be buried when we die than what deeds we do while we are alive. If TF gets majority of those spots, the masjids, he will surely get a larger following...
kseeker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:07 pm1. Like you said yourself, a judge or a case cannot decide who the Dai is.. just like you would not leave MS if he lost the case, progressives won't believe STS was rightful just because he won a case
I dont think that that is the official stand of reformists. I would suggest that you couch it as a personal opinion
Ofcourse, this goes without saying. even if the true Imam came and stood in front of the Bohra crowd today, i personally feel most people would be sceptical, unless authenticated by Muffadal Maula.
This is a most amusing bunch of lies. Firstly Burhanuddin Moula never once did a public nass on MS. He never did finish the sentence he was given to read about “nass nu taj.” He stopped midway. When Moula RA was asking people to recite Syedas Shohadai, Moiz announced to the people that Moula nass farmave che. One wonders what was the need for him to lie like that.Qadir wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:21 amThe idea of Bohras following Mufaddal Maula are brainwashed or as you call braindead abdes is quite wrong. See to it this way, Mufaddal Maula was publicly announced as successor (please don't say it was all a staged show, KQ did not claim his place then so we can forgive people for believing even if it was, but I believe it wasn't fake and hopefully the court will too.)
Even if we consider Burhanuddin Moula to not know anything going on around him, he was given mic when he clearly read the shahadat of Imam Hussain at least thrice (on Ashura, not to forget him doing the first bayaan in 1433). He could have just said Khuzaima Qutbuddin in public various times and maybe people would have known something is fishy. He did not so we can assume that he was ok with events folding around him.
Mufaddal Maula has produced a letter written by SMB, now you might say it could be forged but let court decide that. I hope they have good detectives looking into the letter's legitimacy.
Now being brainwashed would be when someone is forced to believe in radical ideologies by psychologically manipulative techniques. Just like I said KQ never came forward when he could have in front of SMB to demand his right, he just says that he was chosen SMB's successor in private. (No letter, no witness, no public announcement)
KQ said he was the beloved son and what not but we must not forget that STS gave the title Aaliqadr to SMS. Now, I don't see a lot of Aaliqadrs roaming in Bohra circles, do you?
If anyone could have been brainwashed, its followers of KQ and not SMS because even if staged, we are believing in visual proof not some secret nass ceremony 50 years ago.
Yes, we might be blind followers of SMS and whatever he says we do it but it would be so easy for him to just say that he is everything, but no he does not. He still leads us on the true paths of Daim al Islam and reminds us over and again that it is Imam who is the real deal and he is just his servant.
First the jamaat issued letters (presumably with his permission) that khafz was not to be done as it is a mark of one’s love for one’s country to follow it’s laws. Then he got on the takhat and denounced those very laws and declared that it MUST be done and screw the laws!! What did STF do? He issued one clear statement COMPLETELY compliant with Daim AND the law. Khafz will be done, if the woman chooses, in her adulthood. STF’s declaration is consistent with SKQ’s declaration of nass conferred on him in private. One clear statement. No wavering, no fabrication of letters. It was just not SKQ’s style to interrupt a drama and create a scene in front of Burhanuddin Moula. He remained till the end, respectful of his Moula and his Aqa. This is the exemplary behavior of a haq na dai. Strong, clear, consistent.Hmmmm but brain washed surely....Have you heard the Lanat recitations at the slightest provocation? Like trained monkies they spew out their laanats and chant moula moula. Perhaps you can ascribe it to crowd behavior. Perhaps in the sanity of their homes they question his legitimacy. Certainly many voice their doubts to us in person. I am hoping that the critical thinking is more widespread than masjid behavior would lead us to believe.objectiveobserver53 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:41 amI don’t believe that MS followers are all brain dead.
The very concept of pretending someone else’s milad is one’s own is so disingenuous. As though one can change the day one was born. So in keeping with the man’s character....objectiveobserver53 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:05 am
As for Aliqadar...he was given the name because he was born on 23rd of Shere Ramadan. And he has renounced that very milad and has adopted Burhanuddin Moula’s! I have not seen more numbskull confused behavior.
There are many examples of Imam who were heavily political.
It must be so since you say soQadir wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:51 pmThere are many examples of Imam who were heavily political.
Imam Hassan gave khilafat to Muawiya by signing a treaty, that's politics.
Imam Moiz established a whole dynasty and then ruled the Fatimid empire, any sane person would agree that involves politics.
There has been politics in dawat for a long time and just because the word politics in recent decades acquired a negative connotation due to corrupt world leaders, it doesn't mean that politics is necessarily bad. When you are in position when lakhs of people will do as you command, you need to be politically active while maintaining your spiritual position. Easier said than done, TF has completely destroyed his spiritual image in being politically right.
Let’s not forget envelope-stealing.....UnhappyBohra wrote: ↑Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:33 pmhahaha I bet MS gets a “spirituality” medal from Qadir every time he sends one of his blind followers to jail with his ill informed teachings!
His spoon-licking, toilet-hacking, money-grabbing, politician-hugging brand of Spirituality must be working wonders for the enlightenment of the likes of Qadir