Reply to Serendipity

[spot]

From your comment, i deduce an inclination towards the zaydi imamate of which yemenis are prevalent?

[Alislam]

Most likely she is talking about the Suleimanis living under threat in the Wahabi Saudi Arabia.

[spot]

alislam,
i believe the sulemani follow the imamate of Tayyib...which serendipity doesn't follow? Maybe she can clarify.

[serendipity]

Dear brothers. On my thread I tried to explain how the Tayyibi Imamate has actually continued to the present. The transmission of Nass has been SEAMLESS and IN ACCORDANCE with the honorable standards of Imamate that have descended to us through Muhammad ibn Ismail. Yes, we are in solidarity with brothers and sisters of Makrami's people, who are suffering such bitter and undeniable repression in Saudi! And THANK YOU Spot for having the courage to start a "new thread" to discuss this, since my stream "got poisoned" by the USUAL SOURCE of trouble on this board.

[JC]

I believe Sulaimanis are followers of Sulaiman. Bohras split at one dai, majority went with Dawood Bin Ajab Shah and today are knows as Dawoodi Bohras. Some opted for Sulaiman and are known as Sulaimani Bohras. So in essence they believe in all Imams and Dais till Dawood/Sulaiman breakup. Then there are Alvi Bohras. I have even heard of Sunni Sulaimanis.

You see that is the problem with this Silsila of Imamat and Daism. There is bound to confusion and division.

[Alislam]

"You see that is the problem with this Silsila of Imamat and Daism. There is bound to confusion and division"

Division has taken place everywhere since the begining.Can you show any place where such division has not taken place ?

[spot]

seredipity,
is your contention that the descendant of imam tayyib is with the sulaymani bohras in yemen? it would seem odd (but not unreasonable) because according to history, the imam tayyib and his close followers went to the west (al'maghrib).

[serendipity]

That's great, I'm glad you're aware about the history Spot...Yes there's no denying the years that were spent in Africa after the start of satr. There was always considerable commerce between east Africa and the Arabian peninsula, and there's your clue. Hafizi Egypt (and later Saladin's dynasty there, which was also hostile) had to be bypassed! So water is always the best way to go in such cases, and even Hurrat ul Malika sent gifts to Imam this way.

However I must CAUTION you not to MISUNDERSTAND me, when you say "so imam is with the sulaymani bohras in yemen" now. He is NOT the exclusive property of makrami's followers, and certainly doesn't reside with them!! That would only bring on a more intense misery and ESCALATION of murder at the wahabis' hands, especially in Najran.

[spot]

this would lead me to believe he somewhere with the ismailis in najd, saudi arabia?.

[anajmi]

Oh serendipity,

you are such a coward, just like your Imam. I really pity the followers of that Imam.

He better run and hide somewhere else. Spot is getting closer to him!!

[anajmi]

And it seems like your Imam has taught you well, to run and hide.

[serendipity]

Yes, I know you'd PREFER if he just stood up and said "here I am...shoot me", just like your "imam" (zarqawi), who's standing right out in the open, in plain sight!

Have you ever considered how much you have IN COMMON with Burhanuddin's boys? The only thing that impresses you is power, money, and a big organization (in YOUR case, one that can KILL). Thankfully for ALL of us, ALLAH'S priorities are different!

[Africawala]

Serendipity,

You forgot Imam UBL.

[spot]

serendipity and anajmi,
my point is not to disclose the Imam, but to orient myself to a belief of the imam serendipity references in comparision to the historical events of Imam tayyib and his seculsion.

[serendipity]

The sort of discussion you propose is legitimate and welcome, Spot. We can always resort to email if there's too much flak or interference here!

[anajmi]

serendipity,

No, I'd prefer he stood up and said "Here I am...do not be worried anymore". But I guess I am barking up the wrong tree.

[anajmi]

And if he is afraid of getting shot the moment he stands up, he probably does not deserve to be the Imam in the first place. I would certainly prefer someone else.

[serendipity]

Re: anajmi saying "serendipity, No I'd prefer [Imam] stood up and said 'Here I am...do not be worried anymore'."

Is this a SET-UP, bro, or do I actually hear a still small voice being "SINCERE" instead of sarcastic for a change??

Giving you the benefit of the doubt for just a MOMENT, may I gently remind you of how beloved Prophet first received Allah's grace of Quran (in the concealment of a cave), was consequently harassed and powerless in the eyes of the world, entered upon the Hijra (or WITHDRAWAL) with only his most loyal followers...until ALLAH prepared his triumphant "coming out".

INSTEAD of starting some NEW thread on "teachings of the Imam", why not start by honestly asking YOURSELF: Is there a pattern ALREADY HERE, right in front of my eyes, that contains everything I humbly need to CONSIDER??

[anajmi]

serendipity,

of course there is sincerity in my voice. Hey, I promise you one thing, if the Imam comes out of hiding, I will be the first one to give him bayah.

Well, since you know the history of the prophet muhammed, can you tell me how long was the prophet in hiding? a week?, a year? a decade? a century or a millenia? The prophet was out with his religion in the open three days after he recieved the revelation. Even if you go to the extreme, the prophets religion was out in the open within 23 years after he first received it.

Your imam has been hiding for centuries. I am sincerely thinking that he is a fake.

I am sure there is going to be an Imam coming to help us Muslims, but I am also sure that he is not the one who has been hiding for centuries.

[Fatwa Banker]

Brother Anajmi, Ass-Salamwalaikum. Don't we have an Imam in hiding near the Afghan / Pakistani border and another one in Tikrit ? Wouldn't it be nice for us Wahabis to have one central authority too ?

There are just too many Muftis to keep track of and I am personally missing too many important Fatwas. Don't you agree ? Just the other day I had a rather large Fatwa deposited at my bank and the sucker bounced ! Imagine that ? Boy if I could get my hands on THAT Mufti I would be one happy camper ! Too many Fatwas, so little time.

[anajmi]

Dear Brother Fatwa Banker.

Walaikum Ass Salaam. Sure we wahabis have a central authority. Did you see the wahabi holding hands and getting kissed by the president of the United States of America our great leader Bush? He is the central authority of fatwas and now that he is sleeping with bush who wants to free the muslim ummah it is all the more better. In fact I say let the Imam remain hidden, Bush is the new Imam.

We now have a new bank called the WMD Bank where we can deposit out fatwas. Those are sure never to bounce.

[Above Average Bohra]

Fatwa Banker and anajmi.

Do your families know the kind of stuff that you guys are posting over here? Are these the kind of words that you would use in front of your families? I would never do something like that. But whatever rocks your boats. Bleepholes.

[Fatwa Banker]

Yes brother Anajmi. It was nice to see Bush follow traditional Wahabi custom. Reading your posts makes me proud to be a Wahabi again. Please advise me as to how to keep up with as many Fatwas as you do. Which Muftis do you follow and how do you decide between so many choices ?

Thank you and PBUY

Wassalum

[serendipity]

Re: emails rec'd telling me Imam must be direct descendant of tayyib in the flesh. So have bohras all become "literalists" now? I thought only QURAN has literal meaning!

But seriously, if anyone can produce documents saying descent is ONLY by "way of the loins" and NOT by Nass, please do.

[anajmi]

Dear Brother Fatwa Banker.

There are three good Muftis around. Imam Bush, Imam Dick and Imam Sharon. The fatwas they have given in the last few years have benefited millions of people.

Just make sure you own a lot of lubricant when you approach them.

[Above Average Bohra]

anajmi,

does your family know the kind of language you are using. I would never do something like this. But there are rocks in your boat, whatever.

[JC]

So Seren,

Burhan can easily declare himself Imam. I am sure mainstream Shias and Aga Kahnis will NOT agree with you. The whole drama of Imamat is that it HAS TO BE from Ali and Hussain.

But hey you have given a thought to Burhanis. They will work on it and try to work out something for 53rd Dai to be 22nd Imam.

Anajmi and others

Why on earth we all need FATWAS from any kind or type of Muftis or Imam or whosoever.

I assume we all agree that there are books and there are interpretaions, there are precedants, their is jurisprudence and there is above all our wisdom to think and rationalize. We can make our own decisions and conclusions.

WE NEED NOT TO RELY ON ANY ONE MUFTI, IN FACT WE DONOT NEED ANY.

For Anajmis belifes - you have ur Quran and Sunnah, that should be it. You donot need any Mufti (and you will be RIGHT in assuming this).

[serendipity]

JC, No one's denying it's from Ali and Hussain. You need to go back & read what I actually SAID on my previous posts, before you comment.

But while I have you "on the line" let me address your frequent disparagement of Hurat-ul-Malika. By Allah's grace she became HUJJA, dawat's highest honor. (Talk about REVOLUTIONARY!) Yet she wasn't the ONLY woman to defend the dawat - do you need a LIST?

And I guarantee YOU she won't be the last...because you're correct about ONE thing. Base-minded, self-serving "lads" eventually always come along BEHIND and screw things up again. (Witness the "status quo" EVERYWHERE in Islam today!)

So be careful before you run off to join the "male chauvi WAHABI". Because they'll be HAPPY to light a stick of dynamite for you "where the sun don't shine".

[anajmi]

Well, I guess the only way to break the status quo is if the Imam comes out of his hiding spot where he has been HIDING FOR THE LAST THOUSAND FREAKING YEARS.

[anajmi]

But he is afraid he'll get shot "where the sun don't shine". Right?