Anajmi,
Your calculation is simple indeed. Free thinkers are not a homogenized robotic lot that organized religions prefer to create.
DAI
Re: DAI
Humsafar,
Kalim,
When you talk about interpretations and their invalidity based only upon the fact that they are interpretations and not because they are incorrect, just shows how much science you really understand.
That is nothing but complete ignorance on your part. Can you tell me what language your Fatimid heritage/culture started out in? Gujarati? or was it English?To profess belief in a book whose language you don't understand is also paradoxical. And this paradox is so widespread that it needs no commenting.
Kalim,
When you talk about interpretations and their invalidity based only upon the fact that they are interpretations and not because they are incorrect, just shows how much science you really understand.
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: DAI
.
From: ‘Al-Wala Wal-Bara by Muhammad Saeed al-Qahtani. Volume 3, Pages 36-38)
Quote:
Thus Muslim Ummah took only the Book of Allah and Sunnah of Prophet SAW as source of its creed. But distortions to it were to follow later times when the philosophy and science of Greeks were finally translated in Arabic. Had there been willingness and awareness to restrict this activity to useful knowledge such as geometry, chemistry, medicine , and the like, in order that what was translated would not come into conflict with the creed and ideology of Islam then perhaps the story would have been different. However, all the Greek sciences indiscriminately translated, including “Theology” of Aristotle, Plato and others, which is based on skepticism and an assumed non-existence of the unseen.
This was indeed a grave error, it has already happened and it was of no use borrowing from pagans or the philosophical prevarication of Christians and the Jews. In fact Ibn Abbas RA had warned against just such a thing when he said, “You must not take their sciences to account, by Allah, for we have not seen any of them ever enquire from you about what has been revealed to you (Bukhari, Kitab at Tawhid 13/496, Hadith 7523).
What then happened was that, according to Al-Gazali, the purity of Islamic creed was muddied by foreign disbelief and reared its ugly head amongst the idle effete who filled their time with empty debate (Al-Gazali, al-Islam wa at-Taqat al-Muattala 2nd Edi.Page 112). But Allah’s mercy was on his servants and he preserved his religion, raising up scholars in every place and age who would fulfill their obligation to spread the call of Allah and perform Jihad in His way and who warned the Muslims of what they should leave aside and what they should renounce. Many os Scholars mounted active opposition to this internal threat which came to attack both creed and concept of Islam.
Thus Imam ash-Shafii said, “My opinion concerning the philosophers is that you should beat them with the soles of your shoes and leafless branches of palm tree and drag them thru highways and byways, saying ‘this is what we do to those who abandon the book of Allah and Sunnah of His Prophet SAW in favor of Philosophy’ “ (Sharh at-Tahawiyya, p.72). Abu al-Iz al Hanafi continues saying, “How could one hope to reach the fount of knowledge without following what was brought to us by the Messenger of Allah” (Ibid,72,73)
According to Ibn al-Jawzi the source of the problem of encroachment of philosophy upon the religion sciences and creed was the fact that some of the Muslim scholars were not content with tahat which Prophet SAW adhered to, namely Quran and Sunnah. Rather they were attractd to speculative methods of philosophers, they immersed themselves in this and overcome by it, sullying their belief with it (Sayd al-Khathir, revised bay Tantawi, p 205, 2nd Edi., 1398 A.H.)
Unquote:
There is more but this should be enough for this discussion
.
From: ‘Al-Wala Wal-Bara by Muhammad Saeed al-Qahtani. Volume 3, Pages 36-38)
Quote:
Thus Muslim Ummah took only the Book of Allah and Sunnah of Prophet SAW as source of its creed. But distortions to it were to follow later times when the philosophy and science of Greeks were finally translated in Arabic. Had there been willingness and awareness to restrict this activity to useful knowledge such as geometry, chemistry, medicine , and the like, in order that what was translated would not come into conflict with the creed and ideology of Islam then perhaps the story would have been different. However, all the Greek sciences indiscriminately translated, including “Theology” of Aristotle, Plato and others, which is based on skepticism and an assumed non-existence of the unseen.
This was indeed a grave error, it has already happened and it was of no use borrowing from pagans or the philosophical prevarication of Christians and the Jews. In fact Ibn Abbas RA had warned against just such a thing when he said, “You must not take their sciences to account, by Allah, for we have not seen any of them ever enquire from you about what has been revealed to you (Bukhari, Kitab at Tawhid 13/496, Hadith 7523).
What then happened was that, according to Al-Gazali, the purity of Islamic creed was muddied by foreign disbelief and reared its ugly head amongst the idle effete who filled their time with empty debate (Al-Gazali, al-Islam wa at-Taqat al-Muattala 2nd Edi.Page 112). But Allah’s mercy was on his servants and he preserved his religion, raising up scholars in every place and age who would fulfill their obligation to spread the call of Allah and perform Jihad in His way and who warned the Muslims of what they should leave aside and what they should renounce. Many os Scholars mounted active opposition to this internal threat which came to attack both creed and concept of Islam.
Thus Imam ash-Shafii said, “My opinion concerning the philosophers is that you should beat them with the soles of your shoes and leafless branches of palm tree and drag them thru highways and byways, saying ‘this is what we do to those who abandon the book of Allah and Sunnah of His Prophet SAW in favor of Philosophy’ “ (Sharh at-Tahawiyya, p.72). Abu al-Iz al Hanafi continues saying, “How could one hope to reach the fount of knowledge without following what was brought to us by the Messenger of Allah” (Ibid,72,73)
According to Ibn al-Jawzi the source of the problem of encroachment of philosophy upon the religion sciences and creed was the fact that some of the Muslim scholars were not content with tahat which Prophet SAW adhered to, namely Quran and Sunnah. Rather they were attractd to speculative methods of philosophers, they immersed themselves in this and overcome by it, sullying their belief with it (Sayd al-Khathir, revised bay Tantawi, p 205, 2nd Edi., 1398 A.H.)
Unquote:
There is more but this should be enough for this discussion
.
Re: DAI
One more thing, science as we know has been proven to be wrong before and as Kalim acknowledged, it may be proven wrong yet again. What about the quran? Does anyone know of any ayat of the quran that has been invalidated either by science or maths?
Besides, I would rather believe in a book about Islam written closer to the time of the prophet than one written closer to the time of these progressives.
Besides, I would rather believe in a book about Islam written closer to the time of the prophet than one written closer to the time of these progressives.
Re: DAI
accty,Originally posted by accountability:
Anajmi: How do you define "real" islam. .
plz have a look on real islam in pictures.
http://www.mostmerciful.com/namaz.htm
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: DAI
Br. Feelgood
Those pictures are of Aga khani hippocrates.
Real Muslims worship Allah SWT as taught to them by Prophet SAW. 5 times a day ( + Tahajjud if possible), on time and preferably in mosque.
Prophet had strong words about people who cheated in their Namaz (Salat). Sura Al-Maun also says: (Translation by Malik)
4: So woe to those who offer Salah (prayers),
5: but are neglectful of their Salah (offer Prayers but disregard the very purpose of establishing Salah - to have the fear of Allah and be mindful to the needs of other people)
Bohras cheat in their Salah by lumping two salah together (Zohr-Asr, Magrib-Isha).
They also neglect to pray Sunnah and Nafl but knock off extra prayers seeking Wasila from dead and living.
Wasalaam
.
Those pictures are of Aga khani hippocrates.
Real Muslims worship Allah SWT as taught to them by Prophet SAW. 5 times a day ( + Tahajjud if possible), on time and preferably in mosque.
Prophet had strong words about people who cheated in their Namaz (Salat). Sura Al-Maun also says: (Translation by Malik)
4: So woe to those who offer Salah (prayers),
5: but are neglectful of their Salah (offer Prayers but disregard the very purpose of establishing Salah - to have the fear of Allah and be mindful to the needs of other people)
Bohras cheat in their Salah by lumping two salah together (Zohr-Asr, Magrib-Isha).
They also neglect to pray Sunnah and Nafl but knock off extra prayers seeking Wasila from dead and living.
Wasalaam
.
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: DAI
.
This is another proof of Bohras wasting time by going to made-up religious events. Here in this event their Maula reads Quran but thenvarious sons get up and put a pointer on lines he is reading. pretty soon Bohras will be paying huge sums to be lucky enought to put pointer on Qur'an pages.
Your religion is mostly internal not for show.
Wasalaam
.
This is another proof of Bohras wasting time by going to made-up religious events. Here in this event their Maula reads Quran but thenvarious sons get up and put a pointer on lines he is reading. pretty soon Bohras will be paying huge sums to be lucky enought to put pointer on Qur'an pages.
Your religion is mostly internal not for show.
Wasalaam
.
-
accountability
- Posts: 1640
- Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am
Re: DAI
Actually this is not bohra religion, the extravaganza, which is being shown in the pictures are not true symbols of our religion. As kaleem pointed out, if you go through the histroy of dua ats. They had made huge contribution to Islam, by converting thousands of hindus to islam.
The conversion took place, because of their simple benovelent life style, not by pointer put on quran. I agree with you, this may become another ritual to take barakat, or to buy one.
MF Anajmi feelgud, and folks, if you could only differentiate between a personality cult, and real dawoodi bohra religion.
In real religion, there is no rejection, no discrimination or pressure. You may appreciate, that we pray, fast, perform hajj, we recite quran, the way you or any other mulsim do. That means, it is not the dawoodi bohra religion, which is extravagant, instead it is the vested intrest and expoitation in the name of religion, which is bone of contention.
My opinion is, instead of asking people to abondon one set of rituals for another similar set of rituals would not do much good. If the casue of emanicipation from the expoitation by present administration is well supported, it may bear positive results.
The conversion took place, because of their simple benovelent life style, not by pointer put on quran. I agree with you, this may become another ritual to take barakat, or to buy one.
MF Anajmi feelgud, and folks, if you could only differentiate between a personality cult, and real dawoodi bohra religion.
In real religion, there is no rejection, no discrimination or pressure. You may appreciate, that we pray, fast, perform hajj, we recite quran, the way you or any other mulsim do. That means, it is not the dawoodi bohra religion, which is extravagant, instead it is the vested intrest and expoitation in the name of religion, which is bone of contention.
My opinion is, instead of asking people to abondon one set of rituals for another similar set of rituals would not do much good. If the casue of emanicipation from the expoitation by present administration is well supported, it may bear positive results.
-
Average Bohra
- Posts: 924
- Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:01 am
Re: DAI
You have contradicted yourself 2401 times on this very board based on the above.Originally posted by Muslim First:
.
Your religion is mostly internal not for show.
.
-
accountability
- Posts: 1640
- Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am
Re: DAI
Again, the above quote is based on lack of information and ignorance. Bohras pray zohar asr and maghrib isha together, as was done by prophet himself. I dont have to quote you the history, you should be well aware of it.Bohras cheat in their Salah by lumping two salah together (Zohr-Asr, Magrib-Isha).
They also neglect to pray Sunnah and Nafl but knock off extra prayers seeking Wasila from dead and living.
Wasalaam
we dont skip sunnah and nawafils, it is the fundamental part of our prayer. As any sunni muslim may do, pray fard namaz and out of the mosque, does not invalidate the entire namaz.
MF, you also need to abondon your tunnell vision thinking about bohras. or you are too biased.
Re: DAI
what made the real dawoodi bohra religion(I hope u mean sect here and not a religion) into a personality cult?Originally posted by accountability:
......MF Anajmi feelgud, and folks, if you could only differentiate between a personality cult, and real dawoodi bohra religion.
.
What are the basic books of this sect?why not you take the names of those books or quote from them to justify your views or do you think your individual opinion is enough.
They are justifying their acts in the name of religion .
So the justification of rejection too come from religion,from same sources.
The common masses are away from religious text.They think they dont need to read it.this is not for them .
All rights of reading and understanding the religion is reserved for few people.
All they are to do is to be busy in making money to earn the joys of this life and to buy same for hereafter.
They are doing so because they are being convinced since long.
who will ask them to open the books ?
who will tell them that the Book is not for a few but for all.
Its ridiculous if someone believes that one should denounce the religion itself coz its the root cause.
Its like throwing baby with bath tub.
This is again a resultant of keeping ourselves away from the Book.
Hinduism is the best example to learn more of a community without book.
They cant even think of any religious ritual without the PUNDIT.
First cut the relation of masses to the original book and make them blind about their religion and then only you can exploit/fool them easily .
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: DAI
Br. AC wrote:
Regarding prayers Prophet did combine prayers few times without any reason but he did not make it into 3 prayers on regular basis. Look at prayer times at Mumineen.org . Could you find time for Isha prayers? The timing says 'Zuhar End' does that mean Start of Asr time? Do you know there is a Fatwa by Imam Khomeini asking Iranian Shies to pray five separate times and not combine prayers if it is not necessary? Bohra Namaaz timing is proof itself that there is no such thing as Isha Namaaz for Bohras.
As far as culture is concerned, may I ask Kaleem and Humsafar how many drops of Fatemi Egyptian blood is in your system? Here at our Mosque we have Indians, Pakistani, Afghani, Bangladeshi, All kind of Arabs, all kind of Africans, all kind of far East Asians, American Black and white Muslims praying together. They all have their own culture but as far as religion is concerned they pray alike. I am American of Indian, Gujarati (from a particular village) and I wear that culture except in my religion which is Islam. If you do not abandon then you will be Abde-Syedana forever. I hope you will become Abde-Allah (Inshah Allah).
Wasalaam
.
In Sunni Islam there are no rituals. Only rituals are Namaz and Hajj rituals. There are only two Holidays (2 Eids). Only ritual on these Eids is Eid prayers. Other celebrations are cultural rather then religious. So brother AC, if you want to accept Islam as your true religion you will have to abandon your rituals for no rituals.My opinion is, instead of asking people to abondon one set of rituals for another similar set of rituals would not do much good. If the casue of emanicipation from the expoitation by present administration is well supported, it may bear positive results.
Regarding prayers Prophet did combine prayers few times without any reason but he did not make it into 3 prayers on regular basis. Look at prayer times at Mumineen.org . Could you find time for Isha prayers? The timing says 'Zuhar End' does that mean Start of Asr time? Do you know there is a Fatwa by Imam Khomeini asking Iranian Shies to pray five separate times and not combine prayers if it is not necessary? Bohra Namaaz timing is proof itself that there is no such thing as Isha Namaaz for Bohras.
As far as culture is concerned, may I ask Kaleem and Humsafar how many drops of Fatemi Egyptian blood is in your system? Here at our Mosque we have Indians, Pakistani, Afghani, Bangladeshi, All kind of Arabs, all kind of Africans, all kind of far East Asians, American Black and white Muslims praying together. They all have their own culture but as far as religion is concerned they pray alike. I am American of Indian, Gujarati (from a particular village) and I wear that culture except in my religion which is Islam. If you do not abandon then you will be Abde-Syedana forever. I hope you will become Abde-Allah (Inshah Allah).
Wasalaam
.
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: DAI
Br. AC
For your information
From This
Wasalaam
.
For your information
From This
Can you mention one Bohra Scholar who recommends performing prayers seperately just like prohet did most of times?Misconception # 7: Shias combine all five prayers into one prayer in the evening.
Response: Not true. In Shia mosques, whether in Iran or the USA, all five daily prayers are performed. Shia do combine noon and afternoon and evening and night, but Shia scholars recommend performing them separately. Such combinations may not be ideal, but better than not praying at all. How can a Sunni who does not pray at all be better than a Shia who combines prayers?
Wasalaam
.
Re: DAI
MF do you mean to tell me that the wahabis right now are following islam exactly as the prophet did ,by telling me that do mean that 1) the prophet used to oppress women 2) gamble in casinos of europe 3)drink alcohol 4)refuse visas and entry to other muslims who are not wahabis for pilgrimage or umrah 5) turn haj into a profit making organ by charging high fees. All this plus much more is being done by wahabis in atheir claim to follow their form of so called true islam,so kindly first put your own oppressive house in order before preaching
-
accountability
- Posts: 1640
- Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am
Re: DAI
Brother MF: Yes we do sometimes pray maghrib and isha seperatley and zohar and asr seperatley. On the night of shabe qadr we pray maghrib and then we follow isha afterwards.
I remeber, once syedna saheb was visiting karachi, he led zohar prayers, and then continued with his waaz, after wards he led asr prayer.
In case of maghrib, the time in between is so short, that if you wait half an hour, isha begins. that is what we do, we dont pray maghrib and isha together, after maghrib prayer, imam recites no of duas etc, and after a while he leads isha namaz. though by all means, there is no forbidance in islam to pray maghrib and isha together.
I would suggest, that if you could broaden your vision and include everyone in the sphere of islam, it would do much good to islam and humanity.
Morever, your assumption is very erroneous, that the only islam you believe in is islam. First you or anyone do not own religion islam, neither has allah ever asked you to defend his religion.
This is the root cause of intolerance, that each sect is excomminucating other from the fold. I also despise the practice of blasphemy. What is blasphemy, who is anyone to defend or protect the names of allah and his prophet.
I remeber, once syedna saheb was visiting karachi, he led zohar prayers, and then continued with his waaz, after wards he led asr prayer.
In case of maghrib, the time in between is so short, that if you wait half an hour, isha begins. that is what we do, we dont pray maghrib and isha together, after maghrib prayer, imam recites no of duas etc, and after a while he leads isha namaz. though by all means, there is no forbidance in islam to pray maghrib and isha together.
I would suggest, that if you could broaden your vision and include everyone in the sphere of islam, it would do much good to islam and humanity.
Morever, your assumption is very erroneous, that the only islam you believe in is islam. First you or anyone do not own religion islam, neither has allah ever asked you to defend his religion.
This is the root cause of intolerance, that each sect is excomminucating other from the fold. I also despise the practice of blasphemy. What is blasphemy, who is anyone to defend or protect the names of allah and his prophet.
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: DAI
.
Br.Pig
AS
Please allow me answer you one by one
1) the prophet used to oppress women
You probably meant "Prophet did not oppress women"
Yes brother Prophet did not like oppression of women. In SA and many other Islamic countries there is oppression of women. This is not because of Islam but lack of understanding of Islam.
BTW read This .
2) gamble in casinos of europe
Like many Muslims Rich SA Muslims are also Hippocrates. I have personally seen Shaikhs and Mullas break out 'Tin Patti' card game after shedding crocodile tears in majlis.
3)drink alcohol
Similar Answer
4)refuse visas and entry to other muslims who are not wahabis for pilgrimage or umrah
Did they refuse entry to Bohras? There are some so called 'Muslims' who do not believe that Muhammad SAW was last prophet so they are not considered Muslims by their own Government.
5) turn haj into a profit making organ by charging high fees. All this plus much more is being done by wahabis in atheir claim to follow their form of so called true islam,
Considering facilities provided by SA visa fee is a bargain. And guess who is complaining? A cult which has turned 'Ziarat' into money making business!!!
Wasalaam Brother
.
Br.Pig
AS
Please allow me answer you one by one
1) the prophet used to oppress women
You probably meant "Prophet did not oppress women"
Yes brother Prophet did not like oppression of women. In SA and many other Islamic countries there is oppression of women. This is not because of Islam but lack of understanding of Islam.
BTW read This .
2) gamble in casinos of europe
Like many Muslims Rich SA Muslims are also Hippocrates. I have personally seen Shaikhs and Mullas break out 'Tin Patti' card game after shedding crocodile tears in majlis.
3)drink alcohol
Similar Answer
4)refuse visas and entry to other muslims who are not wahabis for pilgrimage or umrah
Did they refuse entry to Bohras? There are some so called 'Muslims' who do not believe that Muhammad SAW was last prophet so they are not considered Muslims by their own Government.
5) turn haj into a profit making organ by charging high fees. All this plus much more is being done by wahabis in atheir claim to follow their form of so called true islam,
Considering facilities provided by SA visa fee is a bargain. And guess who is complaining? A cult which has turned 'Ziarat' into money making business!!!
Wasalaam Brother
.
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: DAI
Br. AC
‘Sometime’ means sometimes. So most of time you do lump it together.
Syydena prayed separately.
May be he did not want to loose audience. Once prayers are done why wait to listen to worm over baloney!
Short time between prayers;
Here in Boston as per published timing today Magrib is at 4:12 PM, Isha is at 5:37 PM.
That is one hour and 25 minutes of Duaas.
BTW, Masjid in Burlington doe Isha at 8:30.
You go home have your dinner, relax and then come and do Isha and go home. (Its extra trip you probably would not like.
BTW if you are praying Isha at home then you are advised to do it before you go to sleep.
BTW I did attend evening prayer with Boston Jamaat. Sk. Dr. Dahodwala was authorized leader of prayer at that time. Bohras did magrib, were given 5 minutes to do Sunna then Ikamah was called for Isha, then 5 minutes for Sunna then he asked every body to do Wasila namaaz.
Morever, your assumption is very erroneous, that the only islam you believe in is islam
No only Islam should be as per Quran and Sunnah of prophet. He did pray all prayers separately most of time. What about Hadith witch says no prayers should be done before its time?
Wasalaam
.
‘Sometime’ means sometimes. So most of time you do lump it together.
Syydena prayed separately.
May be he did not want to loose audience. Once prayers are done why wait to listen to worm over baloney!
Short time between prayers;
Here in Boston as per published timing today Magrib is at 4:12 PM, Isha is at 5:37 PM.
That is one hour and 25 minutes of Duaas.
BTW, Masjid in Burlington doe Isha at 8:30.
You go home have your dinner, relax and then come and do Isha and go home. (Its extra trip you probably would not like.
BTW if you are praying Isha at home then you are advised to do it before you go to sleep.
BTW I did attend evening prayer with Boston Jamaat. Sk. Dr. Dahodwala was authorized leader of prayer at that time. Bohras did magrib, were given 5 minutes to do Sunna then Ikamah was called for Isha, then 5 minutes for Sunna then he asked every body to do Wasila namaaz.
Morever, your assumption is very erroneous, that the only islam you believe in is islam
No only Islam should be as per Quran and Sunnah of prophet. He did pray all prayers separately most of time. What about Hadith witch says no prayers should be done before its time?
Wasalaam
.
Re: DAI
interesting and intelligent.Originally posted by profrog:
MF do you mean to tell me that the wahabis right now are following islam exactly as the prophet did ,by telling me that do mean that 1) the prophet used to oppress women 2) gamble in casinos of europe 3)drink alcohol 4)refuse visas and entry to other muslims who are not wahabis for pilgrimage or umrah 5) turn haj into a profit making organ by charging high fees. All this plus much more is being done by wahabis in atheir claim to follow their form of so called true islam,so kindly first put your own oppressive house in order before preaching
will you plz tell us those marks of identification to know that the person gambling and drinking alcohol is a "saudi" "wahabi" in a casino in Europe.
-
Average Bohra
- Posts: 924
- Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:01 am
Re: DAI
interesting and intelligent.
will you plz tell us those marks of identification to know that the person oppressing women, refuse visas and entry to other muslims, and turn haj into a profit making organ by charging high fees, are not Wahabis ?
will you plz tell us those marks of identification to know that the person oppressing women, refuse visas and entry to other muslims, and turn haj into a profit making organ by charging high fees, are not Wahabis ?
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: DAI
.
Does Kothar permit every Bohra into Mosque?
Wasalaam
.
Can somebody post Visa fee charged in Inda, Pak and USA?turn haj into a profit making organ by charging high fees
Can you be specific and point to a Muslim who was denied visa to visit Holey places?refuse visas and entry to other muslims
Does Kothar permit every Bohra into Mosque?
Wasalaam
.
Re: DAI
Average Moron
Can you please tell us those marks of identification to know that you are not a bigger moron than I think you are?
Very interesting and very intelligent.interesting and intelligent.
will you plz tell us those marks of identification to know that the person oppressing women, refuse visas and entry to other muslims, and turn haj into a profit making organ by charging high fees, are not Wahabis ?
Can you please tell us those marks of identification to know that you are not a bigger moron than I think you are?
Re: DAI
Although I do not care when or even if one prays, here are my observation of Namaaz in Pune, specially in Ramazan. The magrib and isha namaaz are not joined. There is about an hour to hour-and-half of time gap. After magrib there is a whole series of prayers and duas and often a 15-20 minute sermon before the isha namaaz. Further, most people also perform the sunnat and nafilat namaaz. Usually the sermons are on the daim of Islam and mainly encourage people to fast, pray and read the Quran regularly. Many people also attend the midnight namaz in the masjid (nif-al-layl). One can expect to spend at least hour-and-half in the masjid before reconvening for dinner in the jammat halls. Finally, there is nothing from stopping you from praying isha much later. The situations when the da'i is in town is different. Unfortunately due to the hoards of people who follow him it is logistically hard to keep so many people in the masjid for too long or have them come back again in an hour. In these situations the namaaz may be joined.
So I think people like Muslim First are mis-informed or are deliberately misleading others.
So I think people like Muslim First are mis-informed or are deliberately misleading others.
-
Average Bohra
- Posts: 924
- Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:01 am
Re: DAI
Hey Douche Bag 
Time to come up with something original...
Time to come up with something original...
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: DAI
.
AS
Unfortunately keeping hoards for prayer is not one of reasons you are allowed to join prayers. Joining prayers has become norm not exception for Shies. My good friend who is Shaikh prays Magrib in my house when he is visiting. Unfortunately we cannot pray togetehr since he would not lead and would not follow me. so we pray saperatly (Its sad both of miss multifold Sawab for prayer in Jamaat). After Magrib he will tell me that he will complete Isha and then rejoin the company. I would love to pray Isha with him in hour and half or so. He is conditioned to Join prayers.
Recenly we are fortunate to hire a Iranian youg man who prays with us. Other 4 Iranian do not. He also knocks off Magrib-Isha together. We other 3 Sunni leave office around 5:30.
Those Shea Scholars who agree that prayers should be prayed saperately but they themseves do not follow their own Fatwa.
Here I found something from Fiqh-us-Sunnah (For those who dose not understan u-Sunnah mean as per Sunnah of Prophet not as per foloowers of Sunnis)
Combining the two prayers due to some illness or other excuse
Ahmad, Qadi Hussain, al-Khattabi, and al-Mutawali of the Shaf'i school are of the opinion that it is allowed to combine two prayers, either during the time of the earlier or later salah, due to illness as it is a greater hardship than rain. An-Nawawi says: "This is a strong opinion based on [sound] evidence." In al-Mughni it is stated: "The illness which permits one to combine the prayers is the one which would otherwise cause hardship and more weakness [if he prayed each salah separately]."
The Hanbali school is the most accommodating as it allows one to combine the prayers, at the time of the early or later salah, for one who is ill as well as for the woman who is breast-feeding and will face hardship in cleaning her dress for every salah, for the woman who is plagued by a prolonged flow of blood, for the person who cannot control his urine, and for one who cannot purify himself or herself, and for the one who fears for his life,
property, or family.
Ibn Taimiyyah says: "Among the opinions the most accommodating on this question is that of the Hanbali school which allows one to combine the prayers if he is busy (since an-Nasa'i has related something to that effect from the Prophet sallallahu alehi wasallam) and they also say that the cook and baker, and so forth., may also combine their prayers if they fear their wealth (i.e., their investment or what they are working on) will otherwise be ruined."
I guess Bohras can use excuse of economic difficulty. Sayedena can be also excused since he has to spend time collecting money.
Wasalaam
.
Br. KalimUnfortunately due to the hoards of people who follow him it is logistically hard to keep so many people in the masjid for too long or have them come back again in an hour. In these situations the namaaz may be joined.
AS
Unfortunately keeping hoards for prayer is not one of reasons you are allowed to join prayers. Joining prayers has become norm not exception for Shies. My good friend who is Shaikh prays Magrib in my house when he is visiting. Unfortunately we cannot pray togetehr since he would not lead and would not follow me. so we pray saperatly (Its sad both of miss multifold Sawab for prayer in Jamaat). After Magrib he will tell me that he will complete Isha and then rejoin the company. I would love to pray Isha with him in hour and half or so. He is conditioned to Join prayers.
Recenly we are fortunate to hire a Iranian youg man who prays with us. Other 4 Iranian do not. He also knocks off Magrib-Isha together. We other 3 Sunni leave office around 5:30.
Those Shea Scholars who agree that prayers should be prayed saperately but they themseves do not follow their own Fatwa.
Here I found something from Fiqh-us-Sunnah (For those who dose not understan u-Sunnah mean as per Sunnah of Prophet not as per foloowers of Sunnis)
Combining the two prayers due to some illness or other excuse
Ahmad, Qadi Hussain, al-Khattabi, and al-Mutawali of the Shaf'i school are of the opinion that it is allowed to combine two prayers, either during the time of the earlier or later salah, due to illness as it is a greater hardship than rain. An-Nawawi says: "This is a strong opinion based on [sound] evidence." In al-Mughni it is stated: "The illness which permits one to combine the prayers is the one which would otherwise cause hardship and more weakness [if he prayed each salah separately]."
The Hanbali school is the most accommodating as it allows one to combine the prayers, at the time of the early or later salah, for one who is ill as well as for the woman who is breast-feeding and will face hardship in cleaning her dress for every salah, for the woman who is plagued by a prolonged flow of blood, for the person who cannot control his urine, and for one who cannot purify himself or herself, and for the one who fears for his life,
property, or family.
Ibn Taimiyyah says: "Among the opinions the most accommodating on this question is that of the Hanbali school which allows one to combine the prayers if he is busy (since an-Nasa'i has related something to that effect from the Prophet sallallahu alehi wasallam) and they also say that the cook and baker, and so forth., may also combine their prayers if they fear their wealth (i.e., their investment or what they are working on) will otherwise be ruined."
I guess Bohras can use excuse of economic difficulty. Sayedena can be also excused since he has to spend time collecting money.
Wasalaam
.
-
accountability
- Posts: 1640
- Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am
Re: DAI
I do not understand, why are you so insistent on praying seperately. For which you are ready ot abondon your self proclaimed preaching of following prophet and quran. As prophet himself had prayed together and seperatley, and no where in quran it is mentioned to pray seperately or together.
YOur so called braod minded vision of islam just contracts in praying together or seperatley. Your motivation for praying has enormously selfish desire of getting more sawab. Your prayer to allah is not for bowing and pleasing him, but rather for personal benefits of getting rewarded.
With that motivation, your prayer is just like anyother relgious extortion, the only difference is currency.
This is a chronic problem for religious zealots, who self proclaim to be the custodian, gaurdian, owner of the same religion, they believe in.
your not accepting joint prayer is also a form of excomminucation, which you havd no right to.
YOur so called braod minded vision of islam just contracts in praying together or seperatley. Your motivation for praying has enormously selfish desire of getting more sawab. Your prayer to allah is not for bowing and pleasing him, but rather for personal benefits of getting rewarded.
With that motivation, your prayer is just like anyother relgious extortion, the only difference is currency.
This is a chronic problem for religious zealots, who self proclaim to be the custodian, gaurdian, owner of the same religion, they believe in.
your not accepting joint prayer is also a form of excomminucation, which you havd no right to.
Re: DAI
Waaqeemoo alssalata waatoo alzzakata wairkaAAoo maAAa alrrakiAAeenaOriginally posted by accountability:
.. As prophet himself had prayed together and seperatley, and no where in quran it is mentioned to pray seperately or together.
.
2:43 And be steadfast in prayer; practise regular charity; and bow down your heads with those who bow down (in worship).
Ya maryamu oqnutee lirabbiki waosjudee wairkaAAee maAAa alrrakiAAeena
3:43 "O Mary! worship Thy Lord devoutly: Prostrate thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down."
Re: DAI
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo itha noodiya lilssalati min yawmi aljumuAAati faisAAaw ila thikri Allahi watharoo albayAAa thalikum khayrun lakum in kuntum taAAlamoona
62:9 O ye who believe! When the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday (the Day of Assembly), hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah, and leave off business (and traffic): That is best for you if ye but knew!
62:9 O ye who believe! When the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday (the Day of Assembly), hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah, and leave off business (and traffic): That is best for you if ye but knew!
Re: DAI
A bhisaheb recently found out that I pray in a Sunni mosque and at 5 separate times. When my mom had to pay him a visit to fill his pockets, he told my mom that your son is no longer a shia or a believer in Hazrat Ali because he prays 5 separate times. Of course all was forgiven once the money exchanged hands.
So I think people like kalim, who, probably never visit a mosque, either shia or sunni, are either mis-informed or are deliberately misleading others.
So I think people like kalim, who, probably never visit a mosque, either shia or sunni, are either mis-informed or are deliberately misleading others.
-
jamanpasand
- Posts: 468
- Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:01 am
Re: DAI
If five prayers make you happy go for it. If ten makes more happy even better, no one will stop you. What is a point of Wahabi agenda on this board? Was OBL not enough for the last five-year turmoil???? This board is now getting Wahabi propaganda organ !!!!