Br. Humsafar,
Revolution is needed !
Asking questions to amil , discussing with people or friends in jamaat doesnt help.
Bohris are cold blooded idiots.
They can only fight for a masalla in the front row in masjid for 3+4 quick rakats and no more.
Its something like writing articles , asking questions in the parliament abt the atrocities Bush is doing on the Iraqis and elsewhere.
Does it make any difference to Bush or US ? No
The reason being they even control the most powerful important decisive body in the world - the United nations.
The revolution is the only thing which takes these people and their entire bullish kingdom a back seat .
Like ....the way the world is getting changed now is due to 9/11 (to a certain extent).
It was a revolution in its own.
On one side where it has damaged the image of Islam a bit ..it has also awakened so many ignorant sleeping muslims all around the globe.
Moharram
Re: Moharram
Tahir,
Generally, I agree with you. It's not a bad idea at all, imagine a Bohra man marrying a white woman, the offspring will be a 'Gora Bohra' or 'Gori Bohri'. Our aamils have a hell of time controlling this hybrid breed.
Seriously though, this solution is a bit too radical for a people who can't even protect themselves from being robbed. Let us take one small step at a time; let us first find the guts to save our money and our dignity, then we can think of expanding and enriching our gene pool.
Generally, I agree with you. It's not a bad idea at all, imagine a Bohra man marrying a white woman, the offspring will be a 'Gora Bohra' or 'Gori Bohri'. Our aamils have a hell of time controlling this hybrid breed.
Seriously though, this solution is a bit too radical for a people who can't even protect themselves from being robbed. Let us take one small step at a time; let us first find the guts to save our money and our dignity, then we can think of expanding and enriching our gene pool.
Re: Moharram
Zeal,
Revolutions do not happen out of nowhere. It must have a beginning, several beginnings rather. And the beginnings are always going to be simple, courageous acts of defiance, of asking questions, of saying NO, of getting together, of putting up a collective front. We'll have to organise, and act and slowly build up to what you call a revolution.
However, I'm a bit leery of using the word "revolution", it's not only not appropriate for the context but has very radical, violent connotations. You’ll scare the shit out of bohras when you talk about revolution. Besides, the revolution a la 9/11 that you are talking about is the last thing we need. Destroying a system in one fell swoop without any alternative institution to replace it makes for good drama but not good strategy. And, generally revolutions tend to replace one dictatorship with another.
Let’s take it easy. Reform will do for Bohras just fine. Let’s reserve revolution for bigger things.
Revolutions do not happen out of nowhere. It must have a beginning, several beginnings rather. And the beginnings are always going to be simple, courageous acts of defiance, of asking questions, of saying NO, of getting together, of putting up a collective front. We'll have to organise, and act and slowly build up to what you call a revolution.
However, I'm a bit leery of using the word "revolution", it's not only not appropriate for the context but has very radical, violent connotations. You’ll scare the shit out of bohras when you talk about revolution. Besides, the revolution a la 9/11 that you are talking about is the last thing we need. Destroying a system in one fell swoop without any alternative institution to replace it makes for good drama but not good strategy. And, generally revolutions tend to replace one dictatorship with another.
Let’s take it easy. Reform will do for Bohras just fine. Let’s reserve revolution for bigger things.
-
jamanpasand
- Posts: 468
- Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:01 am
Re: Moharram
First step is consensus of like-minded not opportunists in the rank.
What happened in Udaipur? Those so-called reformists went to the Kothar bandwagon at the first given opportunity. Try to clear these people from the rank.
In my opinion, silent sympathizers like KaKa Akela is better than those championed Udaipuris that deserted the cause for nothing.
Put the message across on a wider spectrum than concentration on few strong centres.
So that when right time comes, you have your presence on a wider arena.
Organize yourself to strike at the right opportunity. It is useless to have petty blows.
Wait for the right opportunity, it will come sooner that you expected.
As it is said in Urdu
so sonar ki aur aik lohar ki
What happened in Udaipur? Those so-called reformists went to the Kothar bandwagon at the first given opportunity. Try to clear these people from the rank.
In my opinion, silent sympathizers like KaKa Akela is better than those championed Udaipuris that deserted the cause for nothing.
Put the message across on a wider spectrum than concentration on few strong centres.
So that when right time comes, you have your presence on a wider arena.
Organize yourself to strike at the right opportunity. It is useless to have petty blows.
Wait for the right opportunity, it will come sooner that you expected.
As it is said in Urdu
so sonar ki aur aik lohar ki
-
jamanpasand
- Posts: 468
- Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:01 am
Re: Moharram
Most of my friends must have felt impatient when I said wait for the right opportunity.
This is especially true when we have only two dais in the last full century.
Based on the theory of probability there will be short spell dais in the immediate future.
This is especially true when we have only two dais in the last full century.
Based on the theory of probability there will be short spell dais in the immediate future.
-
Kaka Akela
- Posts: 484
- Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:01 am
Re: Moharram
Of all the suggestions being bandied about, I like the one offered by br. Omabharti. And that is to work within the framework of a legal process. I am sure there are many lawyers within the bohra or reformist groups who have the knowledge and access to the legal system and can offer their services PRO BONO to this cause. Pull the two Dawat-Hadiya centers (Malik Ushter Houston & and Sk.T Z amil of LA)into court forcing them to reveal their financial shinanigans under the freedom of Information Act(FOIA)and their contributions to the terrorists like Saddam and Modi. But I am afraid the financial statements they will submit to courts will be so sanitized that we will get nothing out of them. What they need to also produce to the courts is all the properties they(dawat Hadiya) own and what they do with all that income other than supporting the royal family members' lavish life-style. we also need to look into their tax returns to see if they pay taxes on their income from cash salaams/nazraanas etc.
A lot can be done in this country legally than in India/ Pakistan/Africa where they bribe every body .This inquiry may humble them and every one will realize that,"the emperor has no clothes".
A lot can be done in this country legally than in India/ Pakistan/Africa where they bribe every body .This inquiry may humble them and every one will realize that,"the emperor has no clothes".
Re: Moharram
If it were possible to question the authority – local or central – it would have been done by now. Even the reform in Udaipur did not start by questioning the authority. The reformists were thrown out of he community by Syedna inspite of all the begging and pleading by them to be forgiven. The reformists did not want to leave the community!
I feel the “revolution/reformâ€
I feel the “revolution/reformâ€
Re: Moharram
We can check the political contribution by Aamils and Shaikh at the following site
www.fundrace.org under neighbour search
You can clearly see that most of the Aamils and Jamat Secretary and their families have contributed US $ 2000.00 each to George Bush
Name, Occupation, Employer Contribution Address
MR. AAMIR ZAKIUDDIN
EXPORT/IMPORT
ZAKI TRADERS
George W. Bush
$2,000 18135 SANDRINGHAM COURT (map)
NORTHRIDGE, CA 91326
MR. TURAB ZAKIUDDIN
PRINTING
SELF-EMPLOYED
George W. Bush
$2,000 18135 SANDRINGHAM COURT (map)
NORTHRIDGE, CA 91326
www.fundrace.org under neighbour search
You can clearly see that most of the Aamils and Jamat Secretary and their families have contributed US $ 2000.00 each to George Bush
Name, Occupation, Employer Contribution Address
MR. AAMIR ZAKIUDDIN
EXPORT/IMPORT
ZAKI TRADERS
George W. Bush
$2,000 18135 SANDRINGHAM COURT (map)
NORTHRIDGE, CA 91326
MR. TURAB ZAKIUDDIN
PRINTING
SELF-EMPLOYED
George W. Bush
$2,000 18135 SANDRINGHAM COURT (map)
NORTHRIDGE, CA 91326
Re: Moharram
No more discusion about turning the other cheek.My father died wishing things would change for the better.He went to his grave hoping it will end.I do not want goto my grave with the same wishes.I want to leave this after seeing the end to this regime. I want my brothers and sisters to free of this tyrany. We need to work on one or two chumchas at a place. Others will see the result and change.Sure they will recruit new ones but it will sure keep them on their best behavior.Just knowing they could see bodily harm coming when they least expect it,will restrict their lifes. It will keep them guessing when the next attack would come from.I will bell the cat.God willing.
Re: Moharram
Ahh! an "insurgency". I like the sound of that.
Re: Moharram
Hamsafar,
One one hand you agree with Tahir that bohris getting married to white people might change things.
And on other hand you say revolutions do not happen out of nowhere.
Dont you think bohris getting married to whites on such a mass level is no less than a revolution
These idiots who cant even take a glance out of their closed shells , cant even digest the mere thought of doing anything other than the farman of maula, literate fools who consider that if their new borns are not getting named from maula , they might suffer an ill future......these people will go out of their way and marry whites ??
__________________________________________________
Quote :
Let’s take it easy. Reform will do for Bohras just fine. Let’s reserve revolution for bigger things.
__________________________________________________
Ask S.Insaf how long this reform movement is going on and you will understand what effect this reform has on kothar ....nothing !!
No of sayedna fanatics have increased and the intensity of fanaticism has also.
If you and all of us take it easy , there is no doubt our children will remain slaves as a part of this tyrant empire forever.
Its time we wake up ...
One one hand you agree with Tahir that bohris getting married to white people might change things.
And on other hand you say revolutions do not happen out of nowhere.
Dont you think bohris getting married to whites on such a mass level is no less than a revolution
These idiots who cant even take a glance out of their closed shells , cant even digest the mere thought of doing anything other than the farman of maula, literate fools who consider that if their new borns are not getting named from maula , they might suffer an ill future......these people will go out of their way and marry whites ??
__________________________________________________
Quote :
Let’s take it easy. Reform will do for Bohras just fine. Let’s reserve revolution for bigger things.
__________________________________________________
Ask S.Insaf how long this reform movement is going on and you will understand what effect this reform has on kothar ....nothing !!
No of sayedna fanatics have increased and the intensity of fanaticism has also.
If you and all of us take it easy , there is no doubt our children will remain slaves as a part of this tyrant empire forever.
Its time we wake up ...
Re: Moharram
Okay br. Zeal you can have your revolution. Forget I said anything.
It's good to have so many people chipping in with ideas and suggestions, and they are all excellent in their own right. It's not that one tactic is better than the other; they can all work given the situation and context. The point is start doing something, if legal action works for you that's fine but at the same time let's not discount direct action that you can take at your local jamaat when opportunity arises.
JP, you are right, we've to wait for the right opportunity - the trigger moment - but let's prepare for that moment in the meanwhile so that we're ready when it comes. And yes, let's be wary of opportunists and turncoats. The so-called reformists who betrayed us in Udaipur were luckily only a handful and couldn't do much damage to the movement.
Rahi, you're right. Revolution begins at home (Zeal take note), so let's begin with our family - from nuclear to extended, and beyond. But let me clear the misconception of how the revolt in Udaipur began. It actually did start by questioning and defying the authority (the pleading and begging came much later). It began with municipal elections, when the Bohra Youth Association nominated its own four candidates against the orders and candidates of the local amil and Qaid Johar. What got their goats was that all four jamat candidates were defeated. Then followed the reprisal, when women were attacked in Galiakot. This turned the mood in Udaipur really ugly, but despite all this the newly-minted reformists were ready to compromise, a batch of them went to Rampur where Sayedna was in residence. They pleaded to meet with him but out of his arrogance and short-sightedness he refused to see them. The rest, as they say, is history.
So let me reiterate, the reform in Udaipur started with questioning and defiance.
It's good to have so many people chipping in with ideas and suggestions, and they are all excellent in their own right. It's not that one tactic is better than the other; they can all work given the situation and context. The point is start doing something, if legal action works for you that's fine but at the same time let's not discount direct action that you can take at your local jamaat when opportunity arises.
JP, you are right, we've to wait for the right opportunity - the trigger moment - but let's prepare for that moment in the meanwhile so that we're ready when it comes. And yes, let's be wary of opportunists and turncoats. The so-called reformists who betrayed us in Udaipur were luckily only a handful and couldn't do much damage to the movement.
Rahi, you're right. Revolution begins at home (Zeal take note), so let's begin with our family - from nuclear to extended, and beyond. But let me clear the misconception of how the revolt in Udaipur began. It actually did start by questioning and defying the authority (the pleading and begging came much later). It began with municipal elections, when the Bohra Youth Association nominated its own four candidates against the orders and candidates of the local amil and Qaid Johar. What got their goats was that all four jamat candidates were defeated. Then followed the reprisal, when women were attacked in Galiakot. This turned the mood in Udaipur really ugly, but despite all this the newly-minted reformists were ready to compromise, a batch of them went to Rampur where Sayedna was in residence. They pleaded to meet with him but out of his arrogance and short-sightedness he refused to see them. The rest, as they say, is history.
So let me reiterate, the reform in Udaipur started with questioning and defiance.
Re: Moharram
quote from hamsafar
__________________________________________________
The rest, as they say, is history.
_________________________________________________
Udaipur revolt has indeed become history ...what more is any soul gaining from it?
Tell me anything else the udaipuri's have done beyond that ?
The condition of these people havent changed .
They were called muddai's and still they are the same.
_______________________________________________
Quote :
So let me reiterate, the reform in Udaipur started with questioning and defiance
_________________________________________________
You forget about revolution and you continue with your petty question and answer sessions!
__________________________________________________
The rest, as they say, is history.
_________________________________________________
Udaipur revolt has indeed become history ...what more is any soul gaining from it?
Tell me anything else the udaipuri's have done beyond that ?
The condition of these people havent changed .
They were called muddai's and still they are the same.
_______________________________________________
Quote :
So let me reiterate, the reform in Udaipur started with questioning and defiance
_________________________________________________
You forget about revolution and you continue with your petty question and answer sessions!
Re: Moharram
Friends,
In 70's we had organised "Chhupi Tahreek", "Underground Movement" and it was quite a success in Indore, Ujjain, Chennai (Madrass), Kolkatta etc. It failed because the leading persons in these places scummed to family pressure.
The mathod was to quitely find out like-minded people and arrange their regular secret meeting to impart more and more knowledge and share information. Gratually form a group with committment to stand united in difficulty of one member. Try and expose local incidents of Kothar's atrocities and exploitation in media and so on.
There are many incidents of their success which are worth noting in which they could jointly challenge the local Amil and Jamaats. But the massege would become too long.
In 70's we had organised "Chhupi Tahreek", "Underground Movement" and it was quite a success in Indore, Ujjain, Chennai (Madrass), Kolkatta etc. It failed because the leading persons in these places scummed to family pressure.
The mathod was to quitely find out like-minded people and arrange their regular secret meeting to impart more and more knowledge and share information. Gratually form a group with committment to stand united in difficulty of one member. Try and expose local incidents of Kothar's atrocities and exploitation in media and so on.
There are many incidents of their success which are worth noting in which they could jointly challenge the local Amil and Jamaats. But the massege would become too long.
Re: Moharram
Zeal,
Please, please you're trying my patience. I said you can have your revolution, now what more do you want?
You fool, the Udaipur revolt is not history. "Rest is history" is a phrase, an expression which means that everybody knows what happened next.
You have no idea what Udaipur reformists have gained? First of all they have achieved (and now cherish) a sense of freedom, a sense of fearlessness and an independence of mind which orthodox devotees or fence-sitting whiners can hardly begin to understand or even imagine. In material terms, Udaipur reformists have established regular democratic jamaat elections, they run medical clinics, schools, welfare societies, libraries and other charitable outfits - all funded and run by the jamaat and its members. We control and maintain the jamatkhana and all the major mosques. On the other hand the orthodox group - bigger and richer - is still stuck in the medieval culture of slavery.
Udaipur reformists form the bulk and mass of the reform movement. Their example and achievements are inspiration to Bohras around the world. With the help Asghar ali Engineer, Saifudin Insaf, Noman Contractor and other prominent reformists they have put up a challenge to the corrupt clergy which is unprecedented in Bohra history.
If the reform movement and Udaipur are isolated today it's no fault of theirs. Right from the beginning Udaipur went alone, no other jamaat supported us. And today people like you who instead of supporting the reform movement and strengthening it are nipping at our heels and talking the empty talk of revolution.
As for "what more any soul is gaining form" the Udaipur revolt, I know at least one soul who is. You. Without that revolt this website might not have existed - and you would not have had a chance to exhibit your ignorance and stupidity in public.
Please, please you're trying my patience. I said you can have your revolution, now what more do you want?
You fool, the Udaipur revolt is not history. "Rest is history" is a phrase, an expression which means that everybody knows what happened next.
You have no idea what Udaipur reformists have gained? First of all they have achieved (and now cherish) a sense of freedom, a sense of fearlessness and an independence of mind which orthodox devotees or fence-sitting whiners can hardly begin to understand or even imagine. In material terms, Udaipur reformists have established regular democratic jamaat elections, they run medical clinics, schools, welfare societies, libraries and other charitable outfits - all funded and run by the jamaat and its members. We control and maintain the jamatkhana and all the major mosques. On the other hand the orthodox group - bigger and richer - is still stuck in the medieval culture of slavery.
Udaipur reformists form the bulk and mass of the reform movement. Their example and achievements are inspiration to Bohras around the world. With the help Asghar ali Engineer, Saifudin Insaf, Noman Contractor and other prominent reformists they have put up a challenge to the corrupt clergy which is unprecedented in Bohra history.
If the reform movement and Udaipur are isolated today it's no fault of theirs. Right from the beginning Udaipur went alone, no other jamaat supported us. And today people like you who instead of supporting the reform movement and strengthening it are nipping at our heels and talking the empty talk of revolution.
As for "what more any soul is gaining form" the Udaipur revolt, I know at least one soul who is. You. Without that revolt this website might not have existed - and you would not have had a chance to exhibit your ignorance and stupidity in public.
-
jamanpasand
- Posts: 468
- Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:01 am
Re: Moharram
In 70's we had organized "Chhupi Tahreek", "Underground Movement" and it was quite a success in Indore, Ujjain, Chennai (Madrass), Kolkatta etc. It failed because the leading persons in these places scrummed to family pressure.
Things have changed in last 36 years since 1970s. Now we don’t have just corner meetings. Internet is connecting the world in whisker.
What is missing in the last 36 years in Organization.
Gather like-minded people with just one point agenda Reform.
A strategist will always wait when the opponent is strong.
A present the kothar is too strong to counter minor attacks as suggested above. So utilize this time to organize. Let us debate on how we can get better organised on a wider arena across the globe.
This will be followed by action plans. Execution should be left for the trigger moment.
Things have changed in last 36 years since 1970s. Now we don’t have just corner meetings. Internet is connecting the world in whisker.
What is missing in the last 36 years in Organization.
Gather like-minded people with just one point agenda Reform.
A strategist will always wait when the opponent is strong.
A present the kothar is too strong to counter minor attacks as suggested above. So utilize this time to organize. Let us debate on how we can get better organised on a wider arena across the globe.
This will be followed by action plans. Execution should be left for the trigger moment.
Re: Moharram
All like-minded people - reformists - already have their local organisations. If you can find any near you, join it. They're all looking for new members, new blood and new ideas. Let's grow and strengthen what is already there. Also, let's use the Web to meet, discuss, plan and co-ordinate. All this talking must lead to some action.
Re: Moharram
Go to yahoo groups home page and search 'bohra'. You'll get 81 results. None of those dawoodi bohra groups belong to progressives !
Doesn't this show that except the admin of this board, no one is prepared to take initiative towards reforms? This, inspite of the fact that creating an online mailing list can be done easily and for free by making a yahoo group.
Zeal/ jamanpasand, may be you guys should make a reformist bohra yahoo group and keep the membership only by invitation, to prevent any kothari infiltration. All of us should publish our email IDs here so that you know whom to invite. For any strategy to become successful, it is very important that it is kept secret from the opponents and this board is obviously not a safe place. Besides, all like minded are anonymous to each other over here.
Btw, the largest ortho mailing list, Akhbar-E-burhani has 1294 members and this is what they are doling out:
Aqa Maula(TUS)'s Mojiza
Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Muola (R.A) na Mumineen per Moziza....
Doesn't this show that except the admin of this board, no one is prepared to take initiative towards reforms? This, inspite of the fact that creating an online mailing list can be done easily and for free by making a yahoo group.
Zeal/ jamanpasand, may be you guys should make a reformist bohra yahoo group and keep the membership only by invitation, to prevent any kothari infiltration. All of us should publish our email IDs here so that you know whom to invite. For any strategy to become successful, it is very important that it is kept secret from the opponents and this board is obviously not a safe place. Besides, all like minded are anonymous to each other over here.
Btw, the largest ortho mailing list, Akhbar-E-burhani has 1294 members and this is what they are doling out:
Aqa Maula(TUS)'s Mojiza
Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Muola (R.A) na Mumineen per Moziza....
-
jamanpasand
- Posts: 468
- Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:01 am
Re: Moharram
Zeal/ jamanpasand, may be you guys should make a reformist bohra yahoo group and keep the membership only by invitation, to prevent any kothari infiltration
Good Idea. Let me think over it.
Good Idea. Let me think over it.
Re: Moharram
Go to yahoo groups home page and search 'bohra'. You'll get 81 results. None of those dawoodi bohra groups belong to progressives !
Found one:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/progressivedawoodibohras/
Found one:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/progressivedawoodibohras/
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Moharram
.
Brothers
AS
I have one comment. Your movement will not go anywhere unless you de-mystify authority of Dai. Right now majority of Bohra believe that Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Aqa (TUS) a.k.a. Bawa Shafeeq (TUS), Hazrat Aliya (TUS), Aqa Maulana (TUS), Fatemi Dai (TUS), Aqa e Girami TUS, Huzoor e Ala (TUS), Ale Mohammed’s Dai (TUS), and his family are incarnation of God on this earth. Without worshipping him or whoever he wants you people to worship (Mostly Hussain and some dead saints) there is no entry to Jannah. He is the one who will hold your hand and lead you thru gate of Jannah (LIAR).
I suggest all of you reformist should decide weather you want to subscribe to this fiction of Fatemi Ismaili Islam or move closer to Islam with added Love to Ahle-Bait.
Just look at this Photo-spread . This foolish, blind Bohras cartered plane to Bombay for Darshan of your demi god and eat meal with him. Of course he also performed marriages and bestowed Khitaabs after charging fees. Don’t you think these money wold have been well spent on some worthy charity.
In this global economy and shring world,cast system is dying out fast. Your children are growing and are being educated. They are not going to believe this fiction and Royal ceremonies.
Wasalaam
.
Brothers
AS
I have one comment. Your movement will not go anywhere unless you de-mystify authority of Dai. Right now majority of Bohra believe that Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Aqa (TUS) a.k.a. Bawa Shafeeq (TUS), Hazrat Aliya (TUS), Aqa Maulana (TUS), Fatemi Dai (TUS), Aqa e Girami TUS, Huzoor e Ala (TUS), Ale Mohammed’s Dai (TUS), and his family are incarnation of God on this earth. Without worshipping him or whoever he wants you people to worship (Mostly Hussain and some dead saints) there is no entry to Jannah. He is the one who will hold your hand and lead you thru gate of Jannah (LIAR).
I suggest all of you reformist should decide weather you want to subscribe to this fiction of Fatemi Ismaili Islam or move closer to Islam with added Love to Ahle-Bait.
Just look at this Photo-spread . This foolish, blind Bohras cartered plane to Bombay for Darshan of your demi god and eat meal with him. Of course he also performed marriages and bestowed Khitaabs after charging fees. Don’t you think these money wold have been well spent on some worthy charity.
In this global economy and shring world,cast system is dying out fast. Your children are growing and are being educated. They are not going to believe this fiction and Royal ceremonies.
Wasalaam
.
Re: Moharram
hi kaka akela,
i understand that you cannot imagine living without your family and loved ones. however..it is worth thinking about whether they actually value you as much as you value them. surely..you cannot be expected to compromise on your true beliefs just because they will be ostracized from this sad community.? besides i think if they truly care for you they will not listen to the words of strangers ..most people in the bohra community today are holding your view..if ony more of us would let go...there will be more family giving up the false faith and supporting their loved ones and thus...our numbers will get stronger and we will be able to take a stand for our rights.
no offence...just an opinion.
i understand that you cannot imagine living without your family and loved ones. however..it is worth thinking about whether they actually value you as much as you value them. surely..you cannot be expected to compromise on your true beliefs just because they will be ostracized from this sad community.? besides i think if they truly care for you they will not listen to the words of strangers ..most people in the bohra community today are holding your view..if ony more of us would let go...there will be more family giving up the false faith and supporting their loved ones and thus...our numbers will get stronger and we will be able to take a stand for our rights.
no offence...just an opinion.
Re: Moharram
Originally posted by Zeal:
Hamsafar,
One one hand you agree with Tahir that bohris getting married to white people might change things.
And on other hand you say revolutions do not happen out of nowhere.
Dont you think bohris getting married to whites on such a mass level is no less than a revolution
These idiots who cant even take a glance out of their closed shells , cant even digest the mere thought of doing anything other than the farman of maula, literate fools who consider that if their new borns are not getting named from maula , they might suffer an ill future......these people will go out of their way and marry whites ??
__________________________________________________
Quote :
Let’s take it easy. Reform will do for Bohras just fine. Let’s reserve revolution for bigger things.
__________________________________________________
Ask S.Insaf how long this reform movement is going on and you will understand what effect this reform has on kothar ....nothing !!
No of sayedna fanatics have increased and the intensity of fanaticism has also.
If you and all of us take it easy , there is no doubt our children will remain slaves as a part of this tyrant empire forever.
Its time we wake up ...
Re: Moharram
zeal, hamsafar,
both of you are forgetting that we are all on the same side. there is no one solution to this problem...revolution protest these are all different names for the same thing. ie: oiur cause. let us work together...personally we all need to start small...among our homes, friends...and small decisions with regard to our own selves. stand up for our rights. as more and more of us start doing this the numbers will add up and automatically..whatever is necessary will happen.
both of you are forgetting that we are all on the same side. there is no one solution to this problem...revolution protest these are all different names for the same thing. ie: oiur cause. let us work together...personally we all need to start small...among our homes, friends...and small decisions with regard to our own selves. stand up for our rights. as more and more of us start doing this the numbers will add up and automatically..whatever is necessary will happen.
Re: Moharram
Thank you Tahir for your suggestion. Actually for quite some time we've been toying with the idea of creating a secure, restricted section on this Forum where access will be through password. We've the capability to do this, but the problem is how do we screen people before they are allowed membership. If any of you have any idea do let us know. Thanks for your interest, we're reaaly keen on starting this and also set up a mailing list etc.
Re: Moharram
Admin,
One way of doing this would be by providing 2 references of known progressive members. If somebody is new to this and has no contacts with the reformist movement, than again 2 references who can verify that this person is like minded. it is up to the admin to accept this application depending how convincing the references are.
One way of doing this would be by providing 2 references of known progressive members. If somebody is new to this and has no contacts with the reformist movement, than again 2 references who can verify that this person is like minded. it is up to the admin to accept this application depending how convincing the references are.
Re: Moharram
Some quick thoughts:
20+ posts under diverse topics generally reveals someone's bent of mind. Among all the existing members of the board, I am sure admin knows whom NOT to allow in the secure area.
For the new members, unless they are referred by the existing members, their behaviour could be observed for a sufficient number of posts before letting them in.
This method ofcourse has a big loophole. People can masquerade as reformists in order to break in. This is one risk admin will have to take while relying on its discerning capabilities.
PS: To reduce the risks, the membership to secure area could be by invitations through private messages. The new visitors to the site should not be aware about the existance of a secure area.
20+ posts under diverse topics generally reveals someone's bent of mind. Among all the existing members of the board, I am sure admin knows whom NOT to allow in the secure area.
For the new members, unless they are referred by the existing members, their behaviour could be observed for a sufficient number of posts before letting them in.
This method ofcourse has a big loophole. People can masquerade as reformists in order to break in. This is one risk admin will have to take while relying on its discerning capabilities.
PS: To reduce the risks, the membership to secure area could be by invitations through private messages. The new visitors to the site should not be aware about the existance of a secure area.
Re: Moharram
I like tahir's idea, it sounds workable. It would also help against non-Bohras intruding into every discussion and diverting the topic for their own agendas. Only a minority of topics on this sub-forum are really to do with reform, and even those end up being diverted.
Re: Moharram
I have a question for reformists. What is the reform movement offering to bohras, other than accountability by the kothar as far as money is concerned?
I don't think that is sufficient to reform any bohra, except one who has been tortured by the kothar, and that too has to be beyond repair.
As far as money goes, when I was paying zakat to an Amil, I was paying far less than what I am paying now!! And considering the fact that Syedna has promised to take them to heaven what incentive to they have to join the reform movement? And it's not that the reformists are actually opposing the office of the Dai are they?
I don't think that is sufficient to reform any bohra, except one who has been tortured by the kothar, and that too has to be beyond repair.
As far as money goes, when I was paying zakat to an Amil, I was paying far less than what I am paying now!! And considering the fact that Syedna has promised to take them to heaven what incentive to they have to join the reform movement? And it's not that the reformists are actually opposing the office of the Dai are they?
Re: Moharram
only succesful campain against the tyrant has been in Lebnon and the Golan heights by the handful of mujahidins.What makes anyone think courts and legal avenues are going to bring results against the powerful and affluent tyrant. Its time to crush them with muscle power and devious tactics. We can discus the problems forever while the tyrant becomes more powerful. We need to bleed the devil.Dont forget a small country like afghanistan can bring down the soviet empire why cant a small army of true fighters who belive Moula Ali took out the sword whereever it required it. Lets get them by the b---s. They dont have any.A small team of three can take out any chamcha. Casts,bandagesand broken mouths will distroy their loyalty and scare others of the same.Amils themselves dont do anythingbad they use them to say and do what they want done.We go after them.We just dont have the resources to fight them legally,they buy the courts and the system. We belong the same group that put bombs on their chests.Lets do something that is definately going to prove results,or stay in limbo.