Purpose of progressives
Purpose of progressives
I am curious about the raison d'etre(reason of being ) of these progressives , is their sole purpose of existence just to oppose the Daawat and make fun of its followers or do they have some "Deen" of their own.
Re: Purpose of progressives
hj786.....their only problem i guess is with the authority of our Maula. They want it to be more open and appointment by election and so on. They are getting a little too progressive and influenced by the political aspect of our day and age and most of the times i have seen on this forum they make fun of everything that they themselves follow just out of the hatred of mainstream bohras. They would actually follow the same practices as us but their base is only screwed. As our Prophet has rightly said " there is no deen without love" And they are so filled with hatred that obviosuly there isnt any blessing that comes with deen. Its that simple. And one thing that i have noticed and seen here and spoken to all the mainstream bohras is that these progressives are helping our cause. I have seen people start becoming more orthodox bohras just coz they have seen the kind of methods that these so called progressives follow and want to be disassociated with them. And its helping me too i have become more and more convinced that we on the right path after seeing them. So in many ways its good that these people exist.
Re: Purpose of progressives
Good point Akeel , you see in our community for you to be part of the community you have to adhere to certain rules and regulations which is true for all things organised in this world.
And the good mumins follow them , some times its hard for us also but in our heart we have a belief that we are following our Dai's orders and that will give us peace in life and also after death.
These people are some how too worried about this world , arent any progressives ever thinking about what happens after death?
And the good mumins follow them , some times its hard for us also but in our heart we have a belief that we are following our Dai's orders and that will give us peace in life and also after death.
These people are some how too worried about this world , arent any progressives ever thinking about what happens after death?
Re: Purpose of progressives
no they dont.......
if you see all the people that support their cause you get a hadful of people that arent really worthy examples of Muslims anyways and some of them dont even know what they are supporting.
For eg i know shabana Azmi was a vocal supporter of Engineer and so was Shah Rukh khan and these are the people you hear about in the news and everywhere. They are so concerned of being in the limelight in this world and just want to be noticed by getting support of these celebrities.
I still cant get obver the fact about how engineer came on NDTV and was commenting about the issue of triple talaq and how its should have been done with and all that. I was so amused when i saw that coz that was what his use is of now just give opinions on mundane issues. oh yeah he lent his opinions on the new revised nikahnama ....what an achievement
if you see all the people that support their cause you get a hadful of people that arent really worthy examples of Muslims anyways and some of them dont even know what they are supporting.
For eg i know shabana Azmi was a vocal supporter of Engineer and so was Shah Rukh khan and these are the people you hear about in the news and everywhere. They are so concerned of being in the limelight in this world and just want to be noticed by getting support of these celebrities.
I still cant get obver the fact about how engineer came on NDTV and was commenting about the issue of triple talaq and how its should have been done with and all that. I was so amused when i saw that coz that was what his use is of now just give opinions on mundane issues. oh yeah he lent his opinions on the new revised nikahnama ....what an achievement
Re: Purpose of progressives
Before you guys get carried away by your own navel-gazing rhetoric, just want to mention two things.
1) You guys are johnnies-come-lately on this board who have jumped on a moving train. You have no idea where this train is coming from and where it is going. Before commenting on reformists and their struggle please read up on its history and understand the issues that we have with Sayedna and the Kothar. You can find a whole lot of material on this website: http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/issues.htm
Please educate yourself about the reform movement and then perhaps we can have an intelligent conversation.
2) Asghar Ali Engineer is not only a reformist leader but also an Islamic scholar. I've not watched the NDTV show you refer to. But if Engineer was talking about triple talak it was probably because he was asked to talk about it. In any case I don't understand what is so "amusing" about it? Or what makes it so "mundane"? If you were not so ignorant and insular and were not so proud of your frog-in-the-well tribal mentality, you would know that "triple talak" is an issue of major concern for Muslim women in India (and elsewhere). Muslim men use this "device" to divorce their wives on the slightest whim - which leaves these women high-and-dry, without any protection. It's a major human rights issue for Muslim women. Engineer has written and spoken extensively on women's rights in Islam, and he contends that 'triple talak' is an egregious misinterpretation of the Quran.
Anyway, the point is: Engineer knows the subject and his opinion on Islamic issues is sought around the globe. When was the last time Sayedna Mohd. Burhanuddin invited to talk about Islam by anyone in the media, university, institution etc.? I ask this question not to imply that Engineer is great and Sayedna is not. No. This is just to show that Bohras and their leaders have a very limited and narrow focus and worldview. This kind of narcissistic self-obsession is pathological. Bohras are part of muslim ummah - and larger humanity - and we will do well if we and our leaders took a more wider, engaging view of the world.
Please do not expect any response unless you've something intelligent to say.
1) You guys are johnnies-come-lately on this board who have jumped on a moving train. You have no idea where this train is coming from and where it is going. Before commenting on reformists and their struggle please read up on its history and understand the issues that we have with Sayedna and the Kothar. You can find a whole lot of material on this website: http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/issues.htm
Please educate yourself about the reform movement and then perhaps we can have an intelligent conversation.
2) Asghar Ali Engineer is not only a reformist leader but also an Islamic scholar. I've not watched the NDTV show you refer to. But if Engineer was talking about triple talak it was probably because he was asked to talk about it. In any case I don't understand what is so "amusing" about it? Or what makes it so "mundane"? If you were not so ignorant and insular and were not so proud of your frog-in-the-well tribal mentality, you would know that "triple talak" is an issue of major concern for Muslim women in India (and elsewhere). Muslim men use this "device" to divorce their wives on the slightest whim - which leaves these women high-and-dry, without any protection. It's a major human rights issue for Muslim women. Engineer has written and spoken extensively on women's rights in Islam, and he contends that 'triple talak' is an egregious misinterpretation of the Quran.
Anyway, the point is: Engineer knows the subject and his opinion on Islamic issues is sought around the globe. When was the last time Sayedna Mohd. Burhanuddin invited to talk about Islam by anyone in the media, university, institution etc.? I ask this question not to imply that Engineer is great and Sayedna is not. No. This is just to show that Bohras and their leaders have a very limited and narrow focus and worldview. This kind of narcissistic self-obsession is pathological. Bohras are part of muslim ummah - and larger humanity - and we will do well if we and our leaders took a more wider, engaging view of the world.
Please do not expect any response unless you've something intelligent to say.
Re: Purpose of progressives
I echo the views of Humsafar:
If the "issues" part is beyond the understanding or brains of the likes of hj786 and akeel, I would recommend the following sub-post of the same site as well!:
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/issues/separation.htm
If the "issues" part is beyond the understanding or brains of the likes of hj786 and akeel, I would recommend the following sub-post of the same site as well!:
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/issues/separation.htm
Re: Purpose of progressives
well first of all we on this train from a long time ago. You the one tryin to get on it or off it i m still tryin to figure that out......
And i didnt say that he was not a scholar. He should just make up his mind and decide what is it that he wants to reform. The bohra community or the Muslim society . I know bohras are a part of the Muslim fraternity but we have different issues from the majority of the bohras. So i personally feel that there is a lot of conflicting opinions between your own movement.
The one who is blindly following is you all. There is no proper made of addressing you issues and ppl just talk shit most of the time. and for you kind information i have read everything on this site thats the main reason why i have joined in here coz i know its all superficial. And i m not saying that coz i m just tryin to force my point of view. You have your right to feel say think whatever you want to but just convey it in a more dignified manner and if you say you all are progressives then atleast behave in that manner.
And which world are you living in. Just coming on a talk show and giving you point of view is according to you showing awareness to world problems. Addressing leaders and other people who make lawas and or control it in any ways do not matter. The problem is that you just try to portray yourself as the most modern and liberal thinking people when you not. I m sorry if you think this is not intelligent enough for you to reply . then just refrain from replying. I have seen your intellect so i m quite happy if you choose to stay away
And i didnt say that he was not a scholar. He should just make up his mind and decide what is it that he wants to reform. The bohra community or the Muslim society . I know bohras are a part of the Muslim fraternity but we have different issues from the majority of the bohras. So i personally feel that there is a lot of conflicting opinions between your own movement.
The one who is blindly following is you all. There is no proper made of addressing you issues and ppl just talk shit most of the time. and for you kind information i have read everything on this site thats the main reason why i have joined in here coz i know its all superficial. And i m not saying that coz i m just tryin to force my point of view. You have your right to feel say think whatever you want to but just convey it in a more dignified manner and if you say you all are progressives then atleast behave in that manner.
And which world are you living in. Just coming on a talk show and giving you point of view is according to you showing awareness to world problems. Addressing leaders and other people who make lawas and or control it in any ways do not matter. The problem is that you just try to portray yourself as the most modern and liberal thinking people when you not. I m sorry if you think this is not intelligent enough for you to reply . then just refrain from replying. I have seen your intellect so i m quite happy if you choose to stay away
Re: Purpose of progressives
To Humsafar and Mbohra
I dont know what it is that makes you form opinions about other ppl.
Just because I am a follower of the Dai , in your books that makes me dumd and not suitable to understand your "Issues".
I at least gave u all the benefit of the doubt and asked you all a logical question.
And I ask once again " What is your deen? "
What are your religious beliefs if any?
Are you all Shia?
If yes what kind?
If you believe in Imams all 21 i presume how many Dais do you believe in ?
What do you guys stand for?
Asgar Ali may be a scholar , but somehow he cannot go beyond the point of opposing Daawat.
I mean is there a plan on what to do instead of what it is now?
Is there one amongst you who can step up and say Yes I will lead the community and if yes who gives him the authority to lead ?
All in all my question is why are you guys opposed to Daawat and Dai.
What in your books is the road to Jannat if you believe in life after death that is.
This is an open question to all of you including Asgar Ali
I am an average person , I am not a religious scholar all I know is that I am proud of who I am and I am proud to be a servant of my Dai Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin , who is our true leader.
I dont know what it is that makes you form opinions about other ppl.
Just because I am a follower of the Dai , in your books that makes me dumd and not suitable to understand your "Issues".
I at least gave u all the benefit of the doubt and asked you all a logical question.
And I ask once again " What is your deen? "
What are your religious beliefs if any?
Are you all Shia?
If yes what kind?
If you believe in Imams all 21 i presume how many Dais do you believe in ?
What do you guys stand for?
Asgar Ali may be a scholar , but somehow he cannot go beyond the point of opposing Daawat.
I mean is there a plan on what to do instead of what it is now?
Is there one amongst you who can step up and say Yes I will lead the community and if yes who gives him the authority to lead ?
All in all my question is why are you guys opposed to Daawat and Dai.
What in your books is the road to Jannat if you believe in life after death that is.
This is an open question to all of you including Asgar Ali
I am an average person , I am not a religious scholar all I know is that I am proud of who I am and I am proud to be a servant of my Dai Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin , who is our true leader.
Re: Purpose of progressives
hj786:
To your questions?
"I dont know what it is that makes you form opinions about other ppl.
Just because I am a follower of the Dai , in your books that makes me dumd and not suitable to understand your "Issues".
I at least gave u all the benefit of the doubt and asked you all a logical question.
And I ask once again " What is your deen? "
What are your religious beliefs if any?
Are you all Shia?
If yes what kind?
If you believe in Imams all 21 i presume how many Dais do you believe in ?
What do you guys stand for?"
Our response: Why do you want to know?
To your questions?
"I dont know what it is that makes you form opinions about other ppl.
Just because I am a follower of the Dai , in your books that makes me dumd and not suitable to understand your "Issues".
I at least gave u all the benefit of the doubt and asked you all a logical question.
And I ask once again " What is your deen? "
What are your religious beliefs if any?
Are you all Shia?
If yes what kind?
If you believe in Imams all 21 i presume how many Dais do you believe in ?
What do you guys stand for?"
Our response: Why do you want to know?
Re: Purpose of progressives
"I echo the views of Humsafar:
If the "issues" part is beyond the understanding or brains of the likes of hj786 and akeel, I would recommend the following sub-post of the same site as well!:
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/issues/separation.htm "
If there is any semblance of belief in the Dai as a religious leader, then how do progressives even tolerate all the "name calling" of the Dai, allegation of "improper nass", and criticism of advice on religious issues on these message boards. Either you believe in the position of the present Dai or admit that you dont. If you dont, then you are trying to "reform" an entity that you yourselves dont believe in!!
If the "issues" part is beyond the understanding or brains of the likes of hj786 and akeel, I would recommend the following sub-post of the same site as well!:
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/issues/separation.htm "
If there is any semblance of belief in the Dai as a religious leader, then how do progressives even tolerate all the "name calling" of the Dai, allegation of "improper nass", and criticism of advice on religious issues on these message boards. Either you believe in the position of the present Dai or admit that you dont. If you dont, then you are trying to "reform" an entity that you yourselves dont believe in!!
Re: Purpose of progressives
Ouch!
Now both the following articles are beyond the comprehension of "Z".
http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/issues.htm
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/issues/separation.htm
Which part(s) of our previous posts or responses were diffcult or complex for you to understand?
Now, very, very, very slowly.....Where do you wish us to start "A" or "Z"? We don't want to lose you, God forbid!
Now both the following articles are beyond the comprehension of "Z".
http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/issues.htm
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/issues/separation.htm
Which part(s) of our previous posts or responses were diffcult or complex for you to understand?
Now, very, very, very slowly.....Where do you wish us to start "A" or "Z"? We don't want to lose you, God forbid!
Re: Purpose of progressives
Mbohra
I want to know cos you question everything we do or our Dai does ?
Dont you have a "LOGICAL" response!!
I want to know cos you question everything we do or our Dai does ?
Dont you have a "LOGICAL" response!!
Re: Purpose of progressives
to all those who do or don't support the dawat...this is a lost cause to argue here. the spectrum of belief on this board is wide and varied...and none speak from the position of that the website preached. even the article on the website contradict each other...and NO the reform movement as originally initiate and solidified and those who say are "reformists" on this board are two separate entities.
Re: Purpose of progressives
mbohra,
I suggest you read the articles again...and understand the contradictions in what is stated on those articles and the discussions by a lot of dawat haters (if not all) on this message board. If you dont, I can only have pity on your intellect.
I suggest you read the articles again...and understand the contradictions in what is stated on those articles and the discussions by a lot of dawat haters (if not all) on this message board. If you dont, I can only have pity on your intellect.
Re: Purpose of progressives
My Dear Doosre ke Humsafar
To compare Asgar Ali with the Syedna is to compare
Abu Bakr(Asgar) with Maula Ali (Syedna) .. basically NO COMPARISON.
You talk about world view .. well what explains Syedna's relations with almost all the leaders of nations where Mumineen reside.
What about his appointment as the Chancellor of Aligarh Muslim University.
I could go on and on but thats beside the point , please give me one logical response to the questions I have posted and I will appreciate it.
To compare Asgar Ali with the Syedna is to compare
Abu Bakr(Asgar) with Maula Ali (Syedna) .. basically NO COMPARISON.
You talk about world view .. well what explains Syedna's relations with almost all the leaders of nations where Mumineen reside.
What about his appointment as the Chancellor of Aligarh Muslim University.
I could go on and on but thats beside the point , please give me one logical response to the questions I have posted and I will appreciate it.
Re: Purpose of progressives
hj786,
And what do you know about Abu Bakr or Maula Ali? I would love to hear it or read it as the case may be.
And what do you know about Abu Bakr or Maula Ali? I would love to hear it or read it as the case may be.
Re: Purpose of progressives
Hi Anajmi
I know a lot but to put it breifly ..
Maulana Ali was Rasulullah's Wasi and heir and Bakr was the "forced upon " "elected" caliph.
Ali was by choice of Allah and Rasulullah whereas Bakr was by choice of a few probably "Progressives" of those times.
I hope you get the difference between Haq and Baatil.
I know a lot but to put it breifly ..
Maulana Ali was Rasulullah's Wasi and heir and Bakr was the "forced upon " "elected" caliph.
Ali was by choice of Allah and Rasulullah whereas Bakr was by choice of a few probably "Progressives" of those times.
I hope you get the difference between Haq and Baatil.
Re: Purpose of progressives
Where are you guys humsafar and anajmi
Re: Purpose of progressives
hj420 (oops 786) says:
LOL...that was an honorary post to give a token acknowledgement that bohri dumbasses exist so that the mulla contributes fat cheques by his exploitation money...the real influence is exerted by the vice chancellor......they can make even dawood ibrahim or osama bin laden the chancellor cuz it just doesnt make any difference....its a token post
..these shitpiles are finding it hard to quote a single instance when the mulla's opinion was sought on an issue other than "what name should I give to my new born child" ...and thats what he can do best in this world cuz he doesnt have to stress his peasized brain for that
What about his appointment as the Chancellor of Aligarh Muslim University.
LOL...that was an honorary post to give a token acknowledgement that bohri dumbasses exist so that the mulla contributes fat cheques by his exploitation money...the real influence is exerted by the vice chancellor......they can make even dawood ibrahim or osama bin laden the chancellor cuz it just doesnt make any difference....its a token post..these shitpiles are finding it hard to quote a single instance when the mulla's opinion was sought on an issue other than "what name should I give to my new born child" ...and thats what he can do best in this world cuz he doesnt have to stress his peasized brain for that
Re: Purpose of progressives
In bohri vocabulary, being "elected" means being "forced"...this is something their mothers teach them right from the childhood so that they can never question the appropriateness of one mulla appointing his own son as the next exploitative mulla (dai).....and that is passed under the name "nass" and even called choice of god and rasullalah......someone tell these chaps that Manmohan Singh, the P.M. of India over whose visit to the bohri clinic all these dunbasses were going gaga, is also "elected" and not "selected"...Maulana Ali was Rasulullah's Wasi and heir and Bakr was the "forced upon " "elected" caliph.
I wonder what the Surat madarsa teaches to all its shitty students about all the democratically "elected" leaders of the world.....they get extremely happy when another "elected" leader Clinton pokes a cigar into the mulla's a**...
Re: Purpose of progressives
Tahir You are a stupid ahole we all know that so anything you say is naturally shit.
As far as elected is concerned we are talking religon here u dumb f**k not politics.
You talking about Dai is like a person vomiting while looking at the sky ,.. in fact the next time u r drunk which i am sure is every night and u puke which im sure u do cos balless ppl like u have no capacity just look towards the sky ... im sure ull enjoy the experience.
Get it D**khead
As far as elected is concerned we are talking religon here u dumb f**k not politics.
You talking about Dai is like a person vomiting while looking at the sky ,.. in fact the next time u r drunk which i am sure is every night and u puke which im sure u do cos balless ppl like u have no capacity just look towards the sky ... im sure ull enjoy the experience.
Get it D**khead
Re: Purpose of progressives
If anybody knows who this ahole tahir is I will be really glad to find out. I need to "Discuss" a few things on a personal level with him.
Re: Purpose of progressives
BUT u still didnt explain how is "being elected" tantamount to "being forced upon" even in religious context...and we want an answer which has atleast some semblance of reason and logic...dont try to give us the crap which the mulla gives you in those numerous stinky,cacophonic and extremely nauseatic brainwashing sessions called "wahez" and "sabak" ...try to speak sense for a change
Re: Purpose of progressives
hj420(52) says:
..so now u'v started showing ur true kothari colours...this is exactly what the goons of "spiritual" mulla does to dissenting voices..nice to see that u'v revealed the true character of ur "father" mulla B without us having to do much effort to expose him...
.. ok dude, u can write me on tahir_mumbai@rediffmail.com...and if u wanna meet face to face, give me a shout from any corner of maharashtra (even India)...but just dont shiver in ur pants on facing me like the other coward vermins of ur species do.....BE A MAN...so what if ur balls are kept as security in the mulla's locker ...u can atleast pretend to be a man.
LOLIf anybody knows who this ahole tahir is I will be really glad to find out. I need to "Discuss" a few things on a personal level with him.
..so now u'v started showing ur true kothari colours...this is exactly what the goons of "spiritual" mulla does to dissenting voices..nice to see that u'v revealed the true character of ur "father" mulla B without us having to do much effort to expose him..... ok dude, u can write me on tahir_mumbai@rediffmail.com...and if u wanna meet face to face, give me a shout from any corner of maharashtra (even India)...but just dont shiver in ur pants on facing me like the other coward vermins of ur species do.....BE A MAN...so what if ur balls are kept as security in the mulla's locker ...u can atleast pretend to be a man.
Re: Purpose of progressives
Good Tahir I accept , InshaAllah we will meet one day, I am surprised you have so much venom towards Dai even after being from Bombay.
Once again , just refrain from using cheap language towards the Dai.
Thats all .. you can call me or any other person what ever you want but leave a shred of respect for the Dai.
Will email u soon .
Once again , just refrain from using cheap language towards the Dai.
Thats all .. you can call me or any other person what ever you want but leave a shred of respect for the Dai.
Will email u soon .
Re: Purpose of progressives
dear hj,
there was nothing personal as you made it out to be...why would I want to abuse you?..I just hit at the source - the dai....you guys are hapless victims of social indoctrination which originates from the dai's seat so its natural that you take personally any offense hurled towards the dai....just get it - YOU ARE PROGRAMMED THAT WAY - and I and other progressives here want to liberate you so that you and the other victims of dawat's brainwashing machinery realise your full potential..the implicit message in starting the thread "stunted growth" is that bohras have underutilised their potential...if they liberate themselves from the clutches of the parasitic dawat (which has engaged them in petty issues) they can reach a much higher level of socio economic development and can contribute in changing the face of the world for good....all the best
there was nothing personal as you made it out to be...why would I want to abuse you?..I just hit at the source - the dai....you guys are hapless victims of social indoctrination which originates from the dai's seat so its natural that you take personally any offense hurled towards the dai....just get it - YOU ARE PROGRAMMED THAT WAY - and I and other progressives here want to liberate you so that you and the other victims of dawat's brainwashing machinery realise your full potential..the implicit message in starting the thread "stunted growth" is that bohras have underutilised their potential...if they liberate themselves from the clutches of the parasitic dawat (which has engaged them in petty issues) they can reach a much higher level of socio economic development and can contribute in changing the face of the world for good....all the best
Re: Purpose of progressives
Hi guys,
I fully agree with Humsafar and Taher.
The Orthodox faction has to understand one basic thing:
Reform means to object what doesnot seem right and try to question and learn. Gone are the days of theocracy. Please just listen to Waaz and Bayan and Matam and Karbala - there are trillions of things which do not make sense. Grave worshipping, Sajjdas to Maula, the Rule of Maula's men etc etc. Today, this will not go.
Why do u need such an Imam or Dai?
Just to give small example:
Maula in his bayan at Darees at Saifee Hospital once again said:
1. Gabriel talked to Hussain;
2. Conversation b/w Hussain and Shemar;
3. The horse 'thought' Hussain wanted to come down;
4. Conversation b/w Hussain and Gabriel.
Do you really think all that HAPPENED. If YES, what is the source of knowledge. Hussain was suposedly martyred after his conversation with Gabriel and Shemar - who narrated the stories, there is no one with Hussain near the famous Khajoree Ka Durakhat.
If we do not understand the very basics and there are anomalities in basis, how do u expect one to follow other things. Today Matam is everything, today at mosques praying of Sunnat is done away with and two rakat for Maula is prayed - WHY?
Atleast I am not scholar, but we should be clearly explained the BASICS by our Rohanee Bawa coz also he expects total surrender from us.
Wassalam
I fully agree with Humsafar and Taher.
The Orthodox faction has to understand one basic thing:
Reform means to object what doesnot seem right and try to question and learn. Gone are the days of theocracy. Please just listen to Waaz and Bayan and Matam and Karbala - there are trillions of things which do not make sense. Grave worshipping, Sajjdas to Maula, the Rule of Maula's men etc etc. Today, this will not go.
Why do u need such an Imam or Dai?
Just to give small example:
Maula in his bayan at Darees at Saifee Hospital once again said:
1. Gabriel talked to Hussain;
2. Conversation b/w Hussain and Shemar;
3. The horse 'thought' Hussain wanted to come down;
4. Conversation b/w Hussain and Gabriel.
Do you really think all that HAPPENED. If YES, what is the source of knowledge. Hussain was suposedly martyred after his conversation with Gabriel and Shemar - who narrated the stories, there is no one with Hussain near the famous Khajoree Ka Durakhat.
If we do not understand the very basics and there are anomalities in basis, how do u expect one to follow other things. Today Matam is everything, today at mosques praying of Sunnat is done away with and two rakat for Maula is prayed - WHY?
Atleast I am not scholar, but we should be clearly explained the BASICS by our Rohanee Bawa coz also he expects total surrender from us.
Wassalam
Re: Purpose of progressives
Hi Taher
Now if you talk without abuse or fould language ur not such a bad guy after all.
As far as being in clutches , brainwashed etc , I wont speak for my whole community but let me just tell you about myself.
I am a full grown adult and mature enough to make all my choices in life.
Profession: Technical Consultant basically a high level computer programmer and I live in USA.
I may not be a philosopher or anything like that but I am a logical person.
I know some things in our deen do not make sense , I fully agree , but then you ask why do u follow like blind sheep , I will tell you , it is because I believe.
Religion is all about faith.
We have never seen Allah no one has , even Rasul Lullah didnt , but we believe in him.
Some ppl dont (atheists) and thats OK as long as they dont ridicule who do.
And thats the bone I pick with all u guys.
I have no personal enemity with any of u , I always admire a person who stands by what he believes , but just because u think some thing is right and I dont , does that give you the right to ridicule (Or abuse ) everything I believe in .. Im sure if u ask urself this question the answer will be NO.
Do I wish you would change and be a follower of the Dai , sure , we need strong minded ppl like u but will I ridicule you if u dont .. NO I wont , Tum apne raaste pe aur main apne!!
Take care , I m sure we can get along on many things if we remove our Prejudice
Now if you talk without abuse or fould language ur not such a bad guy after all.
As far as being in clutches , brainwashed etc , I wont speak for my whole community but let me just tell you about myself.
I am a full grown adult and mature enough to make all my choices in life.
Profession: Technical Consultant basically a high level computer programmer and I live in USA.
I may not be a philosopher or anything like that but I am a logical person.
I know some things in our deen do not make sense , I fully agree , but then you ask why do u follow like blind sheep , I will tell you , it is because I believe.
Religion is all about faith.
We have never seen Allah no one has , even Rasul Lullah didnt , but we believe in him.
Some ppl dont (atheists) and thats OK as long as they dont ridicule who do.
And thats the bone I pick with all u guys.
I have no personal enemity with any of u , I always admire a person who stands by what he believes , but just because u think some thing is right and I dont , does that give you the right to ridicule (Or abuse ) everything I believe in .. Im sure if u ask urself this question the answer will be NO.
Do I wish you would change and be a follower of the Dai , sure , we need strong minded ppl like u but will I ridicule you if u dont .. NO I wont , Tum apne raaste pe aur main apne!!
Take care , I m sure we can get along on many things if we remove our Prejudice
Re: Purpose of progressives
JC
Gimme a BREAK!!
If you think we dont need Dai or Imam , why bother with asking the question?
Just go your own way.
As far authenticating what happened , how would u suggest we authenticate Moses,Jesus and Mohammed (PBUH) at all , or all of them just fairy tales?
Gimme a BREAK!!
If you think we dont need Dai or Imam , why bother with asking the question?
Just go your own way.
As far authenticating what happened , how would u suggest we authenticate Moses,Jesus and Mohammed (PBUH) at all , or all of them just fairy tales?
Re: Purpose of progressives
hj,
I am a full grown adult and mature enough to make all my choices in life
The dawat doesnt follow this line of thought and so if someone doesnt belive in what the dawat wants them to, he/she cannot live with dignity in the society. You read the cause of progressive cuz its too long for me to type here.but just because u think some thing is right and I dont , does that give you the right to ridicule (Or abuse ) everything I believe in .. Im sure if u ask urself this question the answer will be NO