do progressives fast or not

[profrog]

in this modern world surely fasting must have been declared as orthodox by two snakes insaap and ajger,

[pro_pig]

they r #24

[S. Insaf]

The reformists follow all the basic principles of Islam as prescribed in Daimul-Islam. Which unfortunately followed by the Sayedna Saheb's followers with much deviation.
We are not fighting for religious reform but the right from begining the reform movement is for positive social reforms in the management of Jamaat affairs. As such how can there be any change in their religious practices.

[accountability]

Dear Insaf: thankyou for answering.

Those were stupid questions.

But I am asking one genuine question.

What is wajebat.?

[profrog]

so insaaf please tell me when you begin to fast and how do you know which is the first of shehre ramazaan and when is your eid,what do the reformists follow

[mbohra]

Profrog, the illiterate and stupid/brain-washed kothari - provided you have a brain that is!!!!!

The Reformist and Progressives are Muslims first, the Shia Ismaili Mustaalian Tayebi Dawoodi Bohras next.

Refer again to:

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/mission.htm

By the way The Progressive Reformists breathe and breed as well, much to your chagrin and damn ignorance or lack of intelligence. Have you applied for that organisation called DENSA? - NOT MENSA! they will admit you now, immediately.

[pro_pig]

they follows us,they come our masjid,enjoy ever thing then they b-i t-c-h and make fun.

[tahir]

bro pro pig,

May I ask whom are you speaking for when you use the term "we"..?

Anyway, let me try to speak your language:

That is not "your" masjid...."your" self appointed mullah comes with a begging bowl every year (thoughout the year) and "we" drop more pennies in it than "you" do....
Then you go and smooch his thighs and lick his cronies' a** and take that money away as kardan hasana....so in effect "we" are paying for "your" sorry existence..."you" have to come to "our" board to learn what the mullah doesn't teach you in waaz and the level of discussion at "your" sites is like this:

Who is engineer

[Anwar]

You pig,
I, as a progressives am very conservative.(may be I am using a very complicated language for your brain, if you got any) I have been brought up to go to masjit to pray. Quess what new fatwa we had during the Lailatul Qadar night,on Saturday. (may be you had your lailatul Qadar night some other time?)
The mulla/mullani who has come to our masjit, had a new farman. She got a few members and made them to decorate the namaz hall with different fruits, each and every fruit covered in fancy paper. The reason? during the namaaz, these fruits will get "barkat" and we will get the "barakat" when we eat them
And no, this is no hearsay. (pig, I take it that you know what hearsay means) My family is now eating 1 apple and 3 plums and we are getting the barkat.

[accountability]

Pro pig you did not answer my question. what is wajebat?

[profrog]

why dont answer my question first or is it that you have no answer ,what deviations in fasting is insaap talking about please tell us orthodox bohras what you progs are doing right and what we are doing wrong? insaap answer

[profrog]

as for the prog who says that "we drop more money then you do " this is the height of hypocracy why do you do something you do not believe in,this is what shaitan does

[profrog]

insaap in case you have forgoten my question was when do progs start to fast and when is your eid,what or whom do you follow? is it the moon the sun or some other star or do you follow engineer so that when he starts to fast(if he does) you also start ,please answer without abuses

[pro_pig]

i am speaking to tahir,anwar and all prog that u guys come to our masjid enjoy every thing and then b-i-t-c-h where u guys go?

[spot]

accountablility,
you asked the question of wajibaat. wajibaat is term used to address those things that are "wajib" or required. in relation to the point at hand..it refers to the monetary/materials part required by islam. this refers to zakat al'fitr, zakat al'maal, khums, and nazir maqam.

[Anwar]

Pro-Pig, yes I do go to a a Bohri/muslim hall a couple of times a year.And I am a reformist,AND everybody there knows my views. I have even asked them WHY they allow any dick and harry mulla/mullani rule them (for about 40-50 days in a year)and dance to his music.The simple reason is bohris have no self respect or pride in themselves.
Can you please tell me the if this fruit custom/tradition/practice is performed in your masjit? I do hope you reply, and reply sincearly and to the best of your ability.

[S. Insaf]

As priscribed in Qurane-Majeed the holy month of Ramadan is for saumo-salat Fasting and prayers); which Muslims all over the world do. The difference is that only a microscopic and insignificant community of Muslims known as Dawoodi Bohras follow Misri Calender. Misri means Egyptian. Some historians say it was started by Imam Moiz but some gives its credit to Imam Hakim.
The deviations which were started since Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb's time are:
1) Appointment of an Amil for every city, town and villege where Bohras reside.
2) Making Amil's Raza even for prayers in the house of Allah compulsory.
3) Making Dai more important than Allah and Rasulullah. (It has been stated by the signatories of Sayedna Saheb in various legal documents that 'Though in other Muslims the community's waqf properties including mosques are made waqf to God according to Dawoodi Bohra tradition they are made waqf to Daiul-Mutlaq of the time. Though the Justist Martin has clearly stated that the Sayedna's concil Mr. Bening himself admitted that such claims were never made by any Dai prerior to Sayedna Taher Saifuddin.)
4) Ignoring the most basic and authentic book of Ismailis 'Daimul-Islam' and baning 'Mota Sahifa.
5)Imposing Wajebat which also includes additional taxes as Sabil, nazar Mukam, Hakkun Nafs and salams of Dai, Mazoon and Mukasir beside fund collection in the name of renovation of mosques and mazars.
5) Further collections for iftari and Sehri Jamans, selling musallah sites, asking for salam to lead the prayers, and making the whole religion a money-making business.
List could be very long.
Reformists including me and Dr. Asgar Ali observe the holy month of Ramadan as it used to in the times of Dais perior to Sayedna Taher Saifuddin who had no opposition to their policies as they were true followers of Islam and Ismailism.

[spot]

dear s. insaf,
you are very incorrect in some of what you write.

firstly, the problem that the entire muslim community currently has right now is completely eliminated by the misri calendar. in fact the majority of mosques in the us have agreed to isna decision to have a calculated start of ramadhan instead of sighting the moon.

you items are also incorrect.

1) amils were institutes by the prophet...maulana was the amil of yemen. amil means governor. a sheikh or respected senior in religion (bhaisaheb) was assigned to lead prayers.

2) Making Amil's Raza even for prayers in the house of Allah compulsory.
--see above

3) the waqf of any religious property is by the imam az'zaman. the prophet and the khalifs had waqf of all mosque during the early islamic years.

4) Ignoring the most basic and authentic book of Ismailis 'Daimul-Islam' and baning 'Mota Sahifa.

--diamul Islam is referenced for everything..and mota sahifa is the same book as what is called "bu sahiba na kitab"

5)Imposing Wajebat which also includes additional taxes as Sabil, nazar Mukam, Hakkun Nafs and salams of Dai, Mazoon and Mukasir beside fund collection in the name of renovation of mosques and mazars.

--sabil is what you pay for the jamat functions, nazar maqam is what you have pledged for the imam az'zaman, and the rest are not compulsory at all.

[profrog]

insaap lies lies and more lies,almost everything you have stated are lies,amilsahebs were there even at rasullah sa time and after him even the other 3 had their amils,and this had the same powers and raza todays amils have.As for raza if you look at history it has been there long time,even the shohadas of kerbala went to fight with raza mubarak of imam hussein sa,but even then there were people like you on the othere side oppossing imam hussein sa,As for waqf of masjids all of them are done in the name of ale mohamed the imams and our moula also does the same, and as for wajebat you claim that hakkun nafs etc were there again you lie this practices have there since the time of all dais prior to syedna taher saifuddin whom you claim to follow .why dont you and you fellow snake cut the lies and bullshit and just admit that you hate the dawat and our moula tus this reformists agenda is just a vehicle you are using to oppose him at everything. Again you did not reply when you start to fast and when is your eid,is it because you are following us dawoodi bohras and are ashamed to admit it infront of your fellow progs,and finally the question of sahifa we follow the same sahifa which has been used for a long time all the duas of imam ali zainulabedin are there show where the deviations are

[profrog]

to the guy asking about the fruit you accuse bohras of being mindless,assuming you are having a mind why do you go to bohra halls or masjid if you do not believe in what they do,and as for the fruit let me ask you do you say bismilaah before you eat or not ,if so why do you do that does it make the food according to you more tasty or what .we can see how many times you go to masjid by the way you have spelled the word masjid in your text

[feelgud]

Originally posted by spot:
accountablility,
you asked the question of wajibaat. wajibaat is term used to address those things that are "wajib" or required. in relation to the point at hand..it refers to the monetary/materials part required by islam. this refers to zakat al'fitr, zakat al'maal, khums, and nazir maqam.

yes accty,
now show courage and accept it.

[Muslim First]

.
Br.PROFROG
AS
I am not Bohra but I went to our Islamic Center in Boston Area for Iftar 2 seturda ago. I met a Mumin Bohra couple there and asked them why tey were there and not at Markaz enjoying 2 mithas and 2 Kharas?
Their response was they were there to meet non Bohra friends and to enjoy evening and food. Just stop carping. Its Allah's mosque and should be open to all Muslims.

Wasalaam Brother.
.

[Muslim First]

Br. Spot
AS
Wrote

in fact the majority of mosques in the us have agreed to ISNA decision to have a calculated start of Ramadan instead of sighting the moon

2 reasons
1. Difficulty in seeing moon due to weather condition
2. Many ethnic community still want to follow their native countries. Example Turkish mosque in Methuen, MA follows calculated time in Turkey not in USA so they started fasting one day late.

ISNA criteria assure that moon would be visible under ideal atmospheric condition. ( Explaining the Fiqh Council Position ).

You also wrote this

Making Amil's Raza even for prayers in the house of Allah compulsory

Can you quote a Hadith or 2 about this?

A Muslim is supposed to pray 2 Rakah for greeting of Masjid when he enters the Masjid. Do you mean to tell me that I am supposed to hunt for your Aamil when I visit your Masjid and ask for his permission?
Don't be ridicules. Prophet appointed prayer leaders initially because there where few trained people in Islam at that time. Once Islam became established and community became large there was no need for Prophet to dictate who can lead prayer. Community decided by themselves.

My brother you are a slave and will remain one.

Wasalaam
.

[spot]

brother muslim first,
your reasons for why isna went to a calculate start for ramadhan are correct...but the prime reason is that commonly two or mosques in the same city were sighting the moon on different days regardless of weather. the isna criteria is no different in relation to misri calendar...under ideal conditions you could sight the misri moon as well. the 12 hour rules applies in the misri calendar.

in regards to the amil's raza...i made that statement in regards to leading the prayers not praying in jamats in the mosque. there is no requirement for raza for just praying in the mosque.

and who repealed the dictate for assigning the prayer leader? it wasn't the prophet. and this was something that maulana ali practiced as well.

and yes i remain a slave of allah, the prophet and his progency.

[Anwar]

Frog, you are smart and good at pointing out a spelling error.Yes I an a very rare visiter to masgid. I do not have to go listen to such rubbish.
You go on to write,"we can see how many times you go to masjid by the way you have spelled the word masjid in your text" so by using the same yardstick, I wonder where all these pigs and frogs and other abde burhanuddin are going? Where did I say you are mindless?? Having no self-respect or pride, is it the same thing as mindless??????? Be my guest :p
Don´t compare bismilaah before you eat, to eating fruit after worshipping it. Tell me, and please be frank, have you heard of such a ridiculous thing like decorating a namaz hall with fruit? And then eat it to get barkat? Do you do that in your masjid.
Has anybody on this forum heard of anything like it?????

[Anwar]

How many spelling mistakes in my last posting, GURU frog?

[accountability]

accountablility,
you asked the question of wajibaat. wajibaat is term used to address those things that are "wajib" or required. in relation to the point at hand..it refers to the monetary/materials part required by islam. this refers to zakat al'fitr, zakat al'maal, khums, and nazir maqam.

wajebat is neither monetary part required by islam, nor it is zakat, khums or nazar maqam (I dont know what nazar maqam is) . the form they give out in ramadan, has no enteries against zakat, or any other columns. At the end it describes the total.

If, for a moment we take your definition as true, then you will concede, that zakat, khums have their definite spendings, zakat can only be used for helping needy and poor of islamic society. According to daim ul islam, zakat can not be used for any other purpose than the one descibed by prophet, that is helping the poor of the society. zakat can only be collected by the khalifa tu lah. when khilafat is non existent, it can be distributed among needy of the society by individual. so, first zakat can not be collected by Dawat ul hadia, as it is not the governing institution in every country, where mumineen resides, (this is not sunni interpretaion, but from daim ul islam). Khums according to nahaj ul balagha, has the same purose.

While zakat is mandatory, khums is not, according to mustalian theology. Zakat is only wajib on the material wealth, that remained unspent or saved for one full year. But in wajebat collection, this criterea is not adhered to.

Wajebat is an extortionist idea, which has no islamic or ismaili justification. Mind you, prior to this syedna, there was no such collection called wajebat.

[Muslim First]

.
Br. Spot

Here is how your Misry or Hakiki system fails the test.

From: Eid Al-Fitr Astronomically On October 24

"Calculations show that the new crescent can not be seen on Sunday, October 22, because it will go down in most Egyptian cities before sunset," Professor Ahmed Ismail Khalifa of the Cairo-based al-Azhar University.

Now how did Bohra arrive at Eid on monday?

Its not just 12 hours but moon has to have some chance of being seen after sunset. One has to follow Sunnah.

So here is what is going to happen in New England

Islamic Council of New England decision on Eid moon sighting. This decision will be announced here in the evening of Oct 21.

So they will look for moon on saturday (29th day of Ramadan) and will find none bacause there is no chance. So they will announce that Eid is on Monday since Ramadan cannot have more then 30 Days.

Your post

and who repealed the dictate for assigning the prayer leader? it wasn't the prophet. and this was something that maulana ali practiced as well.

Was'nt same Maulan Ali in charge of Muslims for six years? Why did he not reinstate this dictate. Hz. Ali RA was Khalifa for at least six yers. He could have declared himself King of Muslims and his family to rule for ever.

Wasalaam, Ramadan Karim and Eid Mubarak
.

[Muslim First]

This is From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bohra Zakat
Zakat, a repayment to God of what you have been blessed with, is one of the seven pillars the religion is based on. Dawoodi Bohras pay many different Zakats as part of the religion. The Dawoodi Bohra religious establisment has seven taxes, for lack of a better English word, some of which are encouraged and others required of its members during their life-span, before birth and after death. They are as follows:

(1) Silat-ul-Imam: SÄ«la literally means "keeping contact". This is supposed to be collected as an offering for a hidden Imam who will appear one day & the amount would supposedly be passed on to him.

(2) Zakat-ul-Fitra: Dawoodi Bohra tradition outlines this as a payment for the soul (see Zakat below). Dowoodi Bohras believe that this payment is one means of cleansing the soul. It is required to be payed along with Zakatu l-Maal, both of which Dawoodi Bohras usually pay in the month of Sherullahu l-Moazzam (Ramadan). Dawoodi Bohras are strictly required to pay this Zakat for every family member as it is compulsary for every Dawoodi Bohra. Even beggars are to beg to be able to pay this Zakat. The amount is fixed, and is based by the annual worth of silver.

(3) Zakat-ul-Maal: This obligatory payment enjoined by the Holy Qu'rÄ

[spot]

accountability,
i would ask to learn a bit more about what these are and their requirements according to the shia doctrines.

wajibat is base on the word wajib which means required. zakat and khums are required by the quran and hadiths of the ahlul bayt...all shia jurists agree on this.

zakat and khums go to the imam...not as you say the needy (though the imam may use it for that). giving to the needy is sadaqah (charity). zakat is not charity (it means purification). the definition you use has been formulated by the later sunni congregation for the lack of a kaliph or imam. rasullah and the first four kaliphs collected zakat. the imams all collected khums also. the funds are given to the local amil to be given to the imam. zakat nor khums has nothing to do with the "government" but is a religious duty (just as important as salat, jihad, and hajj). you neither referenced diam islam or najhul balagha...because both say as i have.