Assalamu Alaykum,
An article that people may find interesting on the importance of reading and understanding the Qur'an.
Qur'an states to its reader:
"Verily, We have made this (Qur'an) easy, in your tongue, in order that they may give heed." (Ad-Dakhan 44:58)
And it also states about those who are thrown into the Fire of Hell:
"They will say: 'Had we but listened or used our intelligence, we would not (now) be among the Companions of the Blazing Fire!'" (Al-Mulk 67:10)
I think it is very clear in its text that Qur'an must be understood by everyone and one must apply the intellect in its study and not be blind about faith.
The full article can be accessed at:
http://www.omeriqbal.com/understanding.html
Regards
What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
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Muslim First
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Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
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Br. Musalman
Here is official line of Bohra sect as far as understanding of quran is concerned.
Br. Musalman
Here is official line of Bohra sect as far as understanding of quran is concerned.
On the Use of Translations of the Qur'an
Shaikh Mustafa Abdulhussein
What's the harm in reading a translation? Surely some understanding is better than none at all. Why be suspicious of translations by well-meaning scholars? What is the best translation? Why not have one approved by Aqa Mawla (TUS)?
These are some of the questions raised recently on the Qur'an.
We must first begin with some understanding of what the Qur'an is. To us, as to all Muslims, the Qur'an is the Word of Allah, revealed to Rasulullah (SAW) in the language of revelation and transcribed into the manifest Arabic language by a divine process. In effect, each word of the Qur'an is Allah's pristine, unaltered revelation. No other holy book in any traditional religion has this status.
The Qur'an is the final revelation of Allah that completes and supersedes all revelations made to mankind before it. It has, for mankind, a Guidance (al-Huda) that separates right from wrong (al-Furqan). It has within it all knowledge of everything pertaining to creation. The Qur'an itself says that there is nothing in the universe that is not in the Qur'an.
One can imagine the immense difficulty of putting everything from the beginning of time to its end into a few pages. This colossal amount of information in the Qur'an is there in moral building stories, in historical accounts, in religious teachings, in social laws etc, where a common ground can be found with other books, divinely inspired or otherwise. However, the bulk of the information of the Qur'an is in its multitude of allegorical and esoteric interpretations. Another level of information is in its numerical usage of words and letters, another in the numerical values attached to each letter, another in its order, another in the letters opening certain chapters, another in its captivating sounds, another in the way each verse was revealed - the list is almost unending.
Yet another level of information exists in the strokes of pen required in writing each word in Arabic. It was not by accident that Arabic was chosen for this Final Revelation. The language itself was nurtured in preparation for this task. The word Allah written in Arabic, for example, contains volumes of information that is completely lost if written in any other script. We know how Amirul Mu'mineen (SA) spent an entire night talking of the meaning of the dot (nuqta) under the letter "be" of bismillah, without exhausting the subject.
Now how can anyone think that such knowledge can be preserved in translations? In fact, can it even be understood if one knows Arabic fluently? Let me say that being fluent in Arabic will help very little when it comes to understanding the real revelations or the miraculous nature of the Qur'an. Sure, knowing Arabic will help appreciate its poetry, its eloquence and some of its literal meaning, which is quite an achievement in itself. After all, Qur'anic composition remains unchallenged in its beauty and majesty. However, the real import of the revelation transcribed in the Qur'an can hardly be obtained simply by reading its literal meaning. If this were not true, then all speakers of the Arabic language would be transformed into saints immediately on reading the Qur'an as they would be privy to the revelation contained therein. We know this is not so simply by looking at the Arab world.
So the real knowledge of the Qur'an can only be taught to us by one who has been allowed by Allah to do so. That person is Allah's Wali in each age, the Imam (SA). Rasulullah (SAW) tied the Qur'an and it's interpretors in his famous words: "I leave behind two things, the Book of Allah (Qur'an) and my progeny. Whosover adheres to them both will never go astray." Amirul Mu'mineen (SA) called himself Qur'an-e- Natiq (voiced), and the book itself Qur'an-e-Samit (silent) to demonstrate this point.
Aqa Mawla (TUS) has said (I have heard this myself, in London) words to this effect: "Mu'mineen! Recite the Qur'an daily. You may not understand much of what you recite, but you should recite it daily nevertheless. An alim would understand the Qur'an more, and one of higher ilm even more and so on until finally, the Imam (SA) - his very being is the Qur'an."
So what is the point of reciting something that is not understood. Well, you would be repeating the Words of Allah as revealed, with all its divinity still intact. The human mouth would pronounce the revealed words, the eyes would see the script of revelation and the ears would hear the sound of revelation. Thus it is said that angels perceive the reciter of the Qur'an as a shining star. And why not - the reciter, by his reciting, makes alive the miraculous words of revelation and attains the blessings of so doing. As to the meaning of the Qur'an - given that the real meaning can only be obtained from the Imam (SA) and in his seclusion from the representative of the Imam (SA), that is the Dai al-Mutlaq, the only recourse is to listen to Aqa Mawla (TUS), and do what he says and does. Aqa Mawla's bayans, the books written by our Huddat Kiram, whether in the time of zuhur or satr all go some way towards explaining the meaning of the Qur'an. This is the only real way of attempting to understand the Qur'an. Neither learning Arabic, nor reading translations can be a substitute for that.
If we read translations, not only do we read something that is bereft of the real revelation, but there is no blessing attached to the act either. There is no "approved" translation because, by definition, there can not be one. Of course translators, and for that matter, interpreters (in whichever language) may be genuine and honest scholars - but that is not the point. The point is whether one thinks that simply by being sincere, one will be able to fathom the revelation locked in this miraculous book. For a mu'min, the answer has to be no. Secondly, we know that in history, there have been many so called "sincere" scholars whose purpose has been to oppose Ahle Bayt (SA), the very people who we believe are the only true interpreters of the Qur'an. Would a mu'min consider any such work, however sincere, as worthy of reading?
In 1976, Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb (TUS), addressed a conference of Muslims in London, in which he quoted Amirul Mu'mineen's (SA) lofty words on the Qur'an as follows:
"a light whose lamp cannot be extinguished"
"an ocean whose depths cannot be fathomed"
"a path that never leads astray"
"a criterion whose validity is irrefutable"
"an illustration whose arguments cannot be challenged"
"a cure after which there is no fear of illness"
"an honour whose defenders cannot be vanquished"
"a truth whose upholders cannot never be forsaken"
May Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin's guidance grant us the ability to ever be reciters of the Qur'an, defenders of its honour and upholders of its truth.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
by: Shaikh Mustafa Abdulhussein
Response to a discussion about the merits of reading translations of the Qur'an that took place on Bohranet in 1996.
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Muslim First
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Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
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Br. Musalman
AS
You wrote;
So my brother Bohras will take guidance only from their Sultan.
So it is written in Quran "Deaf dumb and blind they will not return (to the path)Q2:18.
Wasalaam
.
Br. Musalman
AS
You wrote;
If you read Sh. Abdulhussein, this is what he wrote;Mr Abdulhussein also agrees that one of the things left behind by Muhammad (sws) for guidance is the Book of Allah. If Muslims do not make an effort to understand it, how can they even get guidance from it?
Real meaning according to Sh.Abdulhussein can only be taught by representative of Rasulallah and that "is Allah's Wali in each age, the Imam (SA)". Since he is hiding then his representative Sultan Burhanuddin.So the real knowledge of the Qur'an can only be taught to us by one who has been allowed by Allah to do so. That person is Allah's Wali in each age, the Imam (SA). Rasulullah (SAW) tied the Qur'an and it's interpretors in his famous words: "I leave behind two things, the Book of Allah (Qur'an) and my progeny. Whosover adheres to them both will never go astray." Amirul Mu'mineen (SA) called himself Qur'an-e- Natiq (voiced), and the book itself Qur'an-e-Samit (silent) to demonstrate this point.
So my brother Bohras will take guidance only from their Sultan.
So it is written in Quran "Deaf dumb and blind they will not return (to the path)Q2:18.
Wasalaam
.
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
No translation of Quran can render the inner meaning of the Quran as only the notables of the Bohras can know.
For example, 51st Dai is referred to in the Quran, as you will come to know. How so? You may ask.
27th Surat an-naml starts with mysterious Ta-Sin and the surat is located in the 19th Juz (sipara).
Bohras will tell you that Ta-Sin is a clear reference to Taher Saifuddin, the 51st Dai. It is the 27th Sura as he was born on the 27th of Dhul Qada and is in the 19th sipara, the day of Rajab on which he died.
Rashad Khalifa, turn in your grave!!!
For example, 51st Dai is referred to in the Quran, as you will come to know. How so? You may ask.
27th Surat an-naml starts with mysterious Ta-Sin and the surat is located in the 19th Juz (sipara).
Bohras will tell you that Ta-Sin is a clear reference to Taher Saifuddin, the 51st Dai. It is the 27th Sura as he was born on the 27th of Dhul Qada and is in the 19th sipara, the day of Rajab on which he died.
Rashad Khalifa, turn in your grave!!!
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
Assalamu Alaykum,
Just as an fyi, I apologize for my previous post as it transformed this message into something which makes it difficult to read. I realized that after posting the message.
If there is an inner meaning of the Qur'an, this claim must be substantiated by the Qur'an itself. Therefore, I will request user Porus to bring forward a proof from the Qur'an.
At the same time, I will also invite user Porus to contemplate upon the verses that have been quoted in my first post which request their reader to understand the Qur'an, and use their intellect. In the presence of Qur'anic verdict which not only requires one to understand Qur'an, rather use one's intellect, there is no reason why one must blindly believe that Qur'an cannot be understood!
Comments are welcome.
Regards.
Just as an fyi, I apologize for my previous post as it transformed this message into something which makes it difficult to read. I realized that after posting the message.
If there is an inner meaning of the Qur'an, this claim must be substantiated by the Qur'an itself. Therefore, I will request user Porus to bring forward a proof from the Qur'an.
At the same time, I will also invite user Porus to contemplate upon the verses that have been quoted in my first post which request their reader to understand the Qur'an, and use their intellect. In the presence of Qur'anic verdict which not only requires one to understand Qur'an, rather use one's intellect, there is no reason why one must blindly believe that Qur'an cannot be understood!
Comments are welcome.
Regards.
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
My friend Musalmaan,
While I respect your endeavors...I think you have proven your ownself wrong by taking on this argument.
Ayat 44:58 doesn't even refer to the Quran meanings, but to the taste of death (the first death). You have taken this ayat out of context and done exacting what you said couldn't be.
Suratul Dukhan
52. In gardens and springs;
53. They shall wear of fine and thick silk, (sitting) face to face;
54. Thus (shall it be), and We will wed them with Houris pure, beautiful ones.
55. They shall call therein for every fruit in security;
56. They shall not taste therein death except the first death, and He will save them from the punishment of the hell,
57. A grace from your Lord; this is the great achievement.
58. So have We made it easy in your tongue that they may be mindful.
59. Therefore wait; surely they are waiting.
You wrote: "I think it is very clear in its text that Qur'an must be understood by everyone and one must apply the intellect in its study and not be blind about faith."
Yes it should...but it doesn't mean people do or ever will. It took me 5 minutes to find the misquote you've made...and that from a translation. You will note that for 1400 years the Quran was never officially translated...and was for this very reason.
While I respect your endeavors...I think you have proven your ownself wrong by taking on this argument.
Ayat 44:58 doesn't even refer to the Quran meanings, but to the taste of death (the first death). You have taken this ayat out of context and done exacting what you said couldn't be.
Suratul Dukhan
52. In gardens and springs;
53. They shall wear of fine and thick silk, (sitting) face to face;
54. Thus (shall it be), and We will wed them with Houris pure, beautiful ones.
55. They shall call therein for every fruit in security;
56. They shall not taste therein death except the first death, and He will save them from the punishment of the hell,
57. A grace from your Lord; this is the great achievement.
58. So have We made it easy in your tongue that they may be mindful.
59. Therefore wait; surely they are waiting.
You wrote: "I think it is very clear in its text that Qur'an must be understood by everyone and one must apply the intellect in its study and not be blind about faith."
Yes it should...but it doesn't mean people do or ever will. It took me 5 minutes to find the misquote you've made...and that from a translation. You will note that for 1400 years the Quran was never officially translated...and was for this very reason.
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
Dear Hur,
I do not think it is a misquote and to appreciate the interpretation that I propose, you should consider the Surah as a whole. This Surah starts with the following verses:
"Ha. Mim. By the Book that makes things clear." (Ad-Dukhaan 44:1-2)
From thereon, the Surah admonishes the disbelievers and talks about their punishment, and then concluding with the verses that you have quoted above.
Keeping the aforesaid in mind, now please look at the following verse:
"So have We made it easy in your tongue that they may be mindful." (Ad-Dukhan 44:58)
I cannot understand how taste of death can be made easy in one's tongue. However, the context, in my opinion, clearly refers to Qur'an - the text in which this warning has been made clear, for only the text containing the warning can be made clear in one's tongue. This also coincides with the fact that this Surah starts with the mention that Qur'an makes things clear and ends with the same topic.
The issue of understanding Qur'an has also been dealt in verses 17, 22, 32 and 40 of Surah Al-Qamar with the Arabic text actually containing the word 'Qur'an' to ensure that there is no misunderstanding.
"And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?" (Al-Qamar 54:17)
Therefore, I uphold the opinion that Qur'an is very clear that is must be understood by everyone.
I also disagree that in last 1400 years Qur'an was not translated, infact some of the reports show that Qur'an had even been translated at the time of Prophet Muhammad (sws).
I hope this better explains my point of view.
Best Regards
I do not think it is a misquote and to appreciate the interpretation that I propose, you should consider the Surah as a whole. This Surah starts with the following verses:
"Ha. Mim. By the Book that makes things clear." (Ad-Dukhaan 44:1-2)
From thereon, the Surah admonishes the disbelievers and talks about their punishment, and then concluding with the verses that you have quoted above.
Keeping the aforesaid in mind, now please look at the following verse:
"So have We made it easy in your tongue that they may be mindful." (Ad-Dukhan 44:58)
I cannot understand how taste of death can be made easy in one's tongue. However, the context, in my opinion, clearly refers to Qur'an - the text in which this warning has been made clear, for only the text containing the warning can be made clear in one's tongue. This also coincides with the fact that this Surah starts with the mention that Qur'an makes things clear and ends with the same topic.
The issue of understanding Qur'an has also been dealt in verses 17, 22, 32 and 40 of Surah Al-Qamar with the Arabic text actually containing the word 'Qur'an' to ensure that there is no misunderstanding.
"And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?" (Al-Qamar 54:17)
Therefore, I uphold the opinion that Qur'an is very clear that is must be understood by everyone.
I also disagree that in last 1400 years Qur'an was not translated, infact some of the reports show that Qur'an had even been translated at the time of Prophet Muhammad (sws).
I hope this better explains my point of view.
Best Regards
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
I am reposting my original post to Mr Abdulhussein's article. I had posted the article wrongly and had to request deletion to repost. This is being posted for the context of the previous discussion to which Muslim First replied in the third post.
Thanks.
===============================
Assalmu Alaykum,
Thanks for the post. I will choose differ from the point of view put forth by Mr Abdulhussein and my reasoning follows:
Qur'an, as it revealed, was revealed in the language of the Quraysh and that is evident by the following verse:
"Verily, We have made this (Qur'an) easy, in your tongue, in order that they may give heed." (Ad-Dakhan 44:58)
In addition to that, Qur'an also addresses in the following words:
"Thus, We have made this Qur'an truly appropriate and easy in your language that with it you may give glad tidings to the righteous and thorough warning to the contentious." (19:97)
Having Allah said that, I think there should be no doubt that Qur'an itself was revealed in the language of Muhammad (sws), which was spoken by Quraysh in Makkah. Consequently having Allah said that Qur'an is easy in a language, Mr Abdulhussein should bring forth a proof of his assertion otherwise. Qur'an also does not claim that it has everything in the universe in it, therefore the question of how it can fit such a small piece of text does not even arise.
It is true that it was not by accident that Arabic was chosen as a language for Qur'an's revelation, but anyone with the knowledge of classical and modern Arabic understands that the strokes of the language have nothing to do with the meaning. Further, Qur'an is not written in one stroke only, in fact it is also published and typographed in different fonts, with and without the 'haroof'. (This can easily be verified by buying a copy of the Qur'an from the sub-continent and a copy of Qur'an from the Middle-East!)
Mr Abdulhussein agrees that understanding the Qur'an will help understand some of the meaning, then given that 'some' of the meaning which in the above quoted verses clearly states that Qur'an is made *easy* in the language, Mr Abdulhussein's analysis falls short. His analysis is based on the historical (which may not be factual) event of Imam Ali whereas Qur'anic claim is a fact told to us by Allah.
Mr Abdulhussein has also correctly stated that Qur'an is that which distinguishes right from wrong and as stated by Allah in Qur'an, it has been made easy in the language of its revelation 'in order that they may give heed.' How can a book which tells its first addressees that it landed in their own language only for the sole purpose of they giving it heed, be an object of denial? And after all, Qur'an cannot be Furqan if it cannot be understood by anyone.
Mr Abdulhussein has also narrated an event of Imam Ali explaining the meaning of nuqta of ba all night, however the conclusion he has drawn is not that of Imam's himself, rather that which is drawn by him. Therefore, he must also provide evidence that even if the event is taken to be hundred percent true, how does it even conclude what he has put forth.
Non-Muslims at the time of Muhammad (sws) raised all sorts of objections against Qur'an, but none of there objections was along the lines of incomprehensibility of this book. There objections were based on several claims made by Qur'an, the events of Muhammad (sws), but Qur'an repeatedly presented its language as a literary masterpiece and it was acknowledged by all to be such. Qur'an was clear in its meaning without any ambiguities and confusions. Qur'an subsequently states:
"Alif Lam Ra. These are the verses of the Book that makes (things) manifest. We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom." (Yousuf 12:1-2)
Mr Abdulhussein also agrees that one of the things left behind by Muhammad (sws) for guidance is the Book of Allah. If Muslims do not make an effort to understand it, how can they even get guidance from it?
In view of this evidence, and many other verses from the Qur'an which clearly state that it is a must to understand this book, an equal evidence can only come from Qur'an itself, for Qur'an's claim cannot be nullified otherwise.
Best Regards
Thanks.
===============================
Assalmu Alaykum,
Thanks for the post. I will choose differ from the point of view put forth by Mr Abdulhussein and my reasoning follows:
Qur'an, as it revealed, was revealed in the language of the Quraysh and that is evident by the following verse:
"Verily, We have made this (Qur'an) easy, in your tongue, in order that they may give heed." (Ad-Dakhan 44:58)
In addition to that, Qur'an also addresses in the following words:
"Thus, We have made this Qur'an truly appropriate and easy in your language that with it you may give glad tidings to the righteous and thorough warning to the contentious." (19:97)
Having Allah said that, I think there should be no doubt that Qur'an itself was revealed in the language of Muhammad (sws), which was spoken by Quraysh in Makkah. Consequently having Allah said that Qur'an is easy in a language, Mr Abdulhussein should bring forth a proof of his assertion otherwise. Qur'an also does not claim that it has everything in the universe in it, therefore the question of how it can fit such a small piece of text does not even arise.
It is true that it was not by accident that Arabic was chosen as a language for Qur'an's revelation, but anyone with the knowledge of classical and modern Arabic understands that the strokes of the language have nothing to do with the meaning. Further, Qur'an is not written in one stroke only, in fact it is also published and typographed in different fonts, with and without the 'haroof'. (This can easily be verified by buying a copy of the Qur'an from the sub-continent and a copy of Qur'an from the Middle-East!)
Mr Abdulhussein agrees that understanding the Qur'an will help understand some of the meaning, then given that 'some' of the meaning which in the above quoted verses clearly states that Qur'an is made *easy* in the language, Mr Abdulhussein's analysis falls short. His analysis is based on the historical (which may not be factual) event of Imam Ali whereas Qur'anic claim is a fact told to us by Allah.
Mr Abdulhussein has also correctly stated that Qur'an is that which distinguishes right from wrong and as stated by Allah in Qur'an, it has been made easy in the language of its revelation 'in order that they may give heed.' How can a book which tells its first addressees that it landed in their own language only for the sole purpose of they giving it heed, be an object of denial? And after all, Qur'an cannot be Furqan if it cannot be understood by anyone.
Mr Abdulhussein has also narrated an event of Imam Ali explaining the meaning of nuqta of ba all night, however the conclusion he has drawn is not that of Imam's himself, rather that which is drawn by him. Therefore, he must also provide evidence that even if the event is taken to be hundred percent true, how does it even conclude what he has put forth.
Non-Muslims at the time of Muhammad (sws) raised all sorts of objections against Qur'an, but none of there objections was along the lines of incomprehensibility of this book. There objections were based on several claims made by Qur'an, the events of Muhammad (sws), but Qur'an repeatedly presented its language as a literary masterpiece and it was acknowledged by all to be such. Qur'an was clear in its meaning without any ambiguities and confusions. Qur'an subsequently states:
"Alif Lam Ra. These are the verses of the Book that makes (things) manifest. We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom." (Yousuf 12:1-2)
Mr Abdulhussein also agrees that one of the things left behind by Muhammad (sws) for guidance is the Book of Allah. If Muslims do not make an effort to understand it, how can they even get guidance from it?
In view of this evidence, and many other verses from the Qur'an which clearly state that it is a must to understand this book, an equal evidence can only come from Qur'an itself, for Qur'an's claim cannot be nullified otherwise.
Best Regards
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
.
This is in response to HUR's Post challanging Musalman's translation.
As far as official translation, there is none. Those who want to understand Qur'an must study Interpreted Translations from various author of various school of thoughts and make his own judgement.
I am taking liberty to post Tasfsir of Ibn Kathir of the Ayas in question;
**************************************
From Tafsir Ibn-Kathir
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=44&tid=48182
The State of Those Who has Taqwa and the Delights
They will enjoy in Paradise When Allah describes the state of the doomed, He follows that with a description of the life of the blessed. For this reason the Qur'an is called Al-Mathani (i.e., oft-repeated).
44:51 (Verily, those who have Taqwa,)
i.e., those who fear Allah and are dutiful towards Him in this world,
44.51 cont. (will be in place of security.)
Means, in the Hereafter, i.e., in Paradise, where they will be safe from death and the fear of leaving it, and from every kind of worry, grief, terror and exhaustion, and from the Shaytan and his wiles, and from all other troubles and disasters.
44.52 (Among Gardens and springs).
This is in direct contrast to the state of the doomed, who will have the tree of Zaqqum and boiling water.
44.54(Dressed in Sundus)
Means, the finest of silk, such as shirts and the like.
(And Istabraq)
Means, silk which is woven with shiny threads, like a splendid garment which is worn over regular clothes.
(facing each other, ) means, sitting on thrones where none of them will sit with his back to anyone else.
(So (it will be). And we shall marry them to Hur (fair females) with wide lovely eyes,) this will be a gift in addition to the beautiful wives given to them.
(With whom no man or Jinn has had Tamth (sexual intercourse) before them.) (55:56)
((In beauty) they are like rubies and Marjan.) (55:58)
(Is there any reward for good other than good) (55:60)
44.55 (They will call therein for every kind of fruit in peace and security
means, whatever kinds of fruit they ask for will be brought to them, and they will have the security of knowing that this supply will never come to an end or be withheld; these fruits will be brought to them whenever they want.
44.56 (They will never taste death therein except the first death, )
This is an exception which reinforces the negation. The meaning is that they will never taste death there. It was reported in the Two Sahihs that the Messenger of Allah said:
(Death will be brought forth in the image of a fine ram. It will be made to stand between Paradise and Hell, then it will be slaughtered. It will be said, "O people of Paradise, it is eternal, no more death; and O people of Hell, it is eternal, no more death.'') This Hadith was already quoted in our discussion of Surah Maryam. `Abdur-Razzaq recorded that Abu Sa`id and Abu Hurayrah said, "The Messenger of Allah said:
(It will be said to the people of Paradise, "It is granted to you that you will be healthy and will never fall ill, you will live and never die, you will enjoy a life of luxury and will never be miserable, you will be youthful and will never grow old.'')'' This was recorded by Muslim. It was reported that Abu Hurayrah, may Allah be pleased with him, said, "The Messenger of Allah said:
(Whoever has Taqwa of Allah, he will enter Paradise and enjoy a life of luxury and he will never be miserable. He will live therein and never die, his clothes will never wear out and his youth will never fade.)''
(and He will save them from the torment of the blazing Fire,)
Means, along with this great and eternal blessing, He will also have saved them from the agonizing torment in the depths of Hell, so they will have achieved their desired aim and avoided the thing they feared. Allah says,
44.57 (As a bounty from your Lord! That will be the supreme success!)
Meaning, that will be from His bounty and kindness towards them. It was reported in the Two Sahihs that the Messenger of Allah said:
(Work and strive hard, and know that no one will enter Paradise by virtue of his deeds.) They said, "Not even you, O Messenger of Allah'' He said,
(Not even me, unless Allah showers me with His mercy and grace.)
44.58 (Certainly, We have made this easy in your tongue, in order that they may remember.)
Means, `We have made this Qur'an, which We have sent down, easy, plain and clear, in your language which is the most eloquent, clear and beautiful of all languages.'
(in order that they may remember.)
Means, in order that they may understand and know. Despite the fact that it is so plain and clear, there are still people who disbelieve, who stubbornly go against it. Allah says to His Messenger , consoling him and promising him victory, and warning those who reject him that they will be destroyed.
44.59(Wait then; verily, they (too) are waiting.)
meaning, `they will come to know who will be victorious and whose word will prevail in this world and in the Hereafter. For victory will be for you, O Muhammad, and for your brothers among the Prophets and Messengers, and for the believers who followed you,' as Allah says:
(Allah has decreed: "Verily, it is I and My Messengers who shall be the victorious.'') (58:21)
(Verily, We will indeed make victorious Our Messengers and those who believe in this world's life and on the Day when the witnesses will stand forth, -- the Day when their excuses will be of no profit to wrongdoers. Theirs will be the curse, and theirs will be the evil abode.) (40:51-52) This is the end of the Tafsir of Surat Ad-Dukhan. All praise and thanks are due to Allah and in Him is all strength and protection.
*******************************
Wasalaam
. The State of Those Who has Taqwa and the Delights The State of Those Who has Taqwa and the Delights
This is in response to HUR's Post challanging Musalman's translation.
As far as official translation, there is none. Those who want to understand Qur'an must study Interpreted Translations from various author of various school of thoughts and make his own judgement.
I am taking liberty to post Tasfsir of Ibn Kathir of the Ayas in question;
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From Tafsir Ibn-Kathir
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=44&tid=48182
The State of Those Who has Taqwa and the Delights
They will enjoy in Paradise When Allah describes the state of the doomed, He follows that with a description of the life of the blessed. For this reason the Qur'an is called Al-Mathani (i.e., oft-repeated).
44:51 (Verily, those who have Taqwa,)
i.e., those who fear Allah and are dutiful towards Him in this world,
44.51 cont. (will be in place of security.)
Means, in the Hereafter, i.e., in Paradise, where they will be safe from death and the fear of leaving it, and from every kind of worry, grief, terror and exhaustion, and from the Shaytan and his wiles, and from all other troubles and disasters.
44.52 (Among Gardens and springs).
This is in direct contrast to the state of the doomed, who will have the tree of Zaqqum and boiling water.
44.54(Dressed in Sundus)
Means, the finest of silk, such as shirts and the like.
(And Istabraq)
Means, silk which is woven with shiny threads, like a splendid garment which is worn over regular clothes.
(facing each other, ) means, sitting on thrones where none of them will sit with his back to anyone else.
(So (it will be). And we shall marry them to Hur (fair females) with wide lovely eyes,) this will be a gift in addition to the beautiful wives given to them.
(With whom no man or Jinn has had Tamth (sexual intercourse) before them.) (55:56)
((In beauty) they are like rubies and Marjan.) (55:58)
(Is there any reward for good other than good) (55:60)
44.55 (They will call therein for every kind of fruit in peace and security
means, whatever kinds of fruit they ask for will be brought to them, and they will have the security of knowing that this supply will never come to an end or be withheld; these fruits will be brought to them whenever they want.
44.56 (They will never taste death therein except the first death, )
This is an exception which reinforces the negation. The meaning is that they will never taste death there. It was reported in the Two Sahihs that the Messenger of Allah said:
(Death will be brought forth in the image of a fine ram. It will be made to stand between Paradise and Hell, then it will be slaughtered. It will be said, "O people of Paradise, it is eternal, no more death; and O people of Hell, it is eternal, no more death.'') This Hadith was already quoted in our discussion of Surah Maryam. `Abdur-Razzaq recorded that Abu Sa`id and Abu Hurayrah said, "The Messenger of Allah said:
(It will be said to the people of Paradise, "It is granted to you that you will be healthy and will never fall ill, you will live and never die, you will enjoy a life of luxury and will never be miserable, you will be youthful and will never grow old.'')'' This was recorded by Muslim. It was reported that Abu Hurayrah, may Allah be pleased with him, said, "The Messenger of Allah said:
(Whoever has Taqwa of Allah, he will enter Paradise and enjoy a life of luxury and he will never be miserable. He will live therein and never die, his clothes will never wear out and his youth will never fade.)''
(and He will save them from the torment of the blazing Fire,)
Means, along with this great and eternal blessing, He will also have saved them from the agonizing torment in the depths of Hell, so they will have achieved their desired aim and avoided the thing they feared. Allah says,
44.57 (As a bounty from your Lord! That will be the supreme success!)
Meaning, that will be from His bounty and kindness towards them. It was reported in the Two Sahihs that the Messenger of Allah said:
(Work and strive hard, and know that no one will enter Paradise by virtue of his deeds.) They said, "Not even you, O Messenger of Allah'' He said,
(Not even me, unless Allah showers me with His mercy and grace.)
44.58 (Certainly, We have made this easy in your tongue, in order that they may remember.)
Means, `We have made this Qur'an, which We have sent down, easy, plain and clear, in your language which is the most eloquent, clear and beautiful of all languages.'
(in order that they may remember.)
Means, in order that they may understand and know. Despite the fact that it is so plain and clear, there are still people who disbelieve, who stubbornly go against it. Allah says to His Messenger , consoling him and promising him victory, and warning those who reject him that they will be destroyed.
44.59(Wait then; verily, they (too) are waiting.)
meaning, `they will come to know who will be victorious and whose word will prevail in this world and in the Hereafter. For victory will be for you, O Muhammad, and for your brothers among the Prophets and Messengers, and for the believers who followed you,' as Allah says:
(Allah has decreed: "Verily, it is I and My Messengers who shall be the victorious.'') (58:21)
(Verily, We will indeed make victorious Our Messengers and those who believe in this world's life and on the Day when the witnesses will stand forth, -- the Day when their excuses will be of no profit to wrongdoers. Theirs will be the curse, and theirs will be the evil abode.) (40:51-52) This is the end of the Tafsir of Surat Ad-Dukhan. All praise and thanks are due to Allah and in Him is all strength and protection.
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Wasalaam
. The State of Those Who has Taqwa and the Delights The State of Those Who has Taqwa and the Delights
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
.
How about 19.97
Transliteration: Fa-innama yassarnahu bilisanika litubashshira bihi almuttaqeena watunthira bihi qawman luddan
Y.Ali: So have We made the (Qur'an) easy in thine own tongue, that with it thou mayest give Glad Tidings to the righteous, and warnings to people given to contention.
R.Khalifa: We thus made this (Quran) elucidated in your tongue, in order to deliver good news to the righteous, and to warn with it the opponents.
Pickthal: And We make (this Scripture) easy in thy tongue, (O Muhammad) only that thou mayst bear good tidings therewith unto those who ward off (evil), and warn therewith the froward folk.
Shakir: So We have only made it easy in your tongue that you may give good news thereby to those who guard (against evil) and warn thereby a vehemently contentious people.
Literal: So but We eased it with your tongue/language, to announce good news with it (to) the fearing and obeying, and warn/give notice with it (to) a nation (in) harsh/violent dispute
.
How about 19.97
Transliteration: Fa-innama yassarnahu bilisanika litubashshira bihi almuttaqeena watunthira bihi qawman luddan
Y.Ali: So have We made the (Qur'an) easy in thine own tongue, that with it thou mayest give Glad Tidings to the righteous, and warnings to people given to contention.
R.Khalifa: We thus made this (Quran) elucidated in your tongue, in order to deliver good news to the righteous, and to warn with it the opponents.
Pickthal: And We make (this Scripture) easy in thy tongue, (O Muhammad) only that thou mayst bear good tidings therewith unto those who ward off (evil), and warn therewith the froward folk.
Shakir: So We have only made it easy in your tongue that you may give good news thereby to those who guard (against evil) and warn thereby a vehemently contentious people.
Literal: So but We eased it with your tongue/language, to announce good news with it (to) the fearing and obeying, and warn/give notice with it (to) a nation (in) harsh/violent dispute
.
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
Musalman and MuslimFirst,
My intention was not to present a "challenge"...but to identify the decrepancy. Your both promoting teaching the Quran and its meaning...based on a interpretation/translation done by someone else. So in essence you teaching the Quran according to Y. Ali, M. Picktall, etc. and their understanding and learning. MuslimFirst quoted Ibn Kathir tafsir of what the ayat means. Did you know Ibn Kathir was a stauched student of Ibn Taymiyyah of wahabbi fame!? This the kind of stuff Mr. Adul Husein refered to.
Now in reference to the passage...the ayat refers to ease of tongue for remembering...directly after refering to taste of death. It is a metaphorical statement that Allah uses often in Quran. If your interpretation is used...the ayat is totally out of place with the ayat before and after. Nowhere in the ayat or the ones before or after or in the passage does it refer to the Quranic text or understanding of the Quran...but it refers to heaven, hell and death.
Your refer to the first two ayats...unfortunately again you didn't complete the context.
Ha-Mim. By the book the clear (or the clear book), We sent on a blessed night, lo, We are warning, therein every thing (order) decreed, a command from Us, lo, We send messengers, mercy from your Lord, the Hearer, the Knower.
Firstly, this doesn't directly relate to the last passage. Secondly, it is a clear book related from the Messenger to us. This is the key. The first companions were taught by the Messenger the understanding of the Quran...and how to incorporated it into our lives.
As far as 19:97...it is a statement from Allah speaking directly to Muhammad..not muslims in general.
In both cases the word lisan is used..translated as either tongue or language.
But again, we have two interpretations...one of which maybe correct..and one that is wrong. It is for this reason the Quran wasn't translated for 1400 years.
My intention was not to present a "challenge"...but to identify the decrepancy. Your both promoting teaching the Quran and its meaning...based on a interpretation/translation done by someone else. So in essence you teaching the Quran according to Y. Ali, M. Picktall, etc. and their understanding and learning. MuslimFirst quoted Ibn Kathir tafsir of what the ayat means. Did you know Ibn Kathir was a stauched student of Ibn Taymiyyah of wahabbi fame!? This the kind of stuff Mr. Adul Husein refered to.
Now in reference to the passage...the ayat refers to ease of tongue for remembering...directly after refering to taste of death. It is a metaphorical statement that Allah uses often in Quran. If your interpretation is used...the ayat is totally out of place with the ayat before and after. Nowhere in the ayat or the ones before or after or in the passage does it refer to the Quranic text or understanding of the Quran...but it refers to heaven, hell and death.
Your refer to the first two ayats...unfortunately again you didn't complete the context.
Ha-Mim. By the book the clear (or the clear book), We sent on a blessed night, lo, We are warning, therein every thing (order) decreed, a command from Us, lo, We send messengers, mercy from your Lord, the Hearer, the Knower.
Firstly, this doesn't directly relate to the last passage. Secondly, it is a clear book related from the Messenger to us. This is the key. The first companions were taught by the Messenger the understanding of the Quran...and how to incorporated it into our lives.
As far as 19:97...it is a statement from Allah speaking directly to Muhammad..not muslims in general.
In both cases the word lisan is used..translated as either tongue or language.
But again, we have two interpretations...one of which maybe correct..and one that is wrong. It is for this reason the Quran wasn't translated for 1400 years.
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
hur,
Do you know quranic arabic?
Do you know quranic arabic?
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
Assalamu Alaykum,
I have presented the translations of the Qur'anic texts which I understand from the Arabic text as well. I do not quote Abdullah Yousufali or any other scholar's translation unless I agree with their translation being closely representing what Qur'an is actually saying in its Arabic text.
I only provided the verse to give an indication of the theme of the Surah and as I have said, the entire Surah should be read to understand the point of view I am explaining. However, I did not want to post the entire text, so I only provided those verses that were needed to suffice for the explanation. I disagree with the point of view that the verse 58 of Ad-Dukhan points towards remembrance in the literal meaning tongue. Instead, the meaning of the word 'tongue' in translations that you may find can only be that which is given as 'spoken language or dialect' in The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. The explanation provided by user Hur is against the usage of the words. I will not want to dwell further in the details of the interpretation and the usage of words unless someone on this forum feels that explanation is needed.
Instead, I will like to present a very clear verse of the Qur'an, because of the ease of explanation in its interpretation. In Surah 12:1-3, Qur'an says,
"Alif Lam Ra. These are verses of a clear book. We have revealed this Arabic Qur'an so that you may understand."
The Arabic words that have been used are 'La'alakum ta'aqiloon'. Both these words can only be used for a plural audience in Arabic. Had a single person been addressed, the words would have to instead be 'La'alaka ta'aqul' or a similar construction. Therefore, it is clear that this address is to more than one person. The context of the verses that follow then goes onto explain the story of Prophet Yousuf (pbuh).
It must also be kept in mind that Qur'an has not addressed Prophet Muhammad (sws) only in its address. It has used phrases such as "O People!" (2:21) "O Children of Israel" (2:40) "O you who believe" (4:59). Qur'an has addressed all these people directly so in my opinion it is not possible to construe that Qur'an is not meant for us. Obviously, people at the time of the revelation of Qur'an spoke Arabic and understood it, it was not possible for them to listen to Qur'an and then not understand it. It is like saying that in modern day I will recite something in English but people who are listening cannot understand it even though it is their own language. Disbelievers at the time of Muhammad (sws) raised all kinds of objections on Qur'an but none of them was that how can this be Book of God which cannot be understood at all!
In Al-Fatihah, a believer asks God for showing the right path in verse 5. The Qur'an starts off by the following words:
"Alif Laam Mim. This is the Book, without doubt, a Guidance for those who fear God." (Al-Baqarah 1:1-2)
Muslims at the time of Muhammad (sws) where the daily prayer was enjoined were required to recite Al-Fatihah, asking for guidance from God, and then reciting a few verses from Qur'an as His answer to them.
Qur'an has clearly itself stated that it is guidance, how can it be guidance for anyone who cannot understand and get guidance from it! In Al-Furqan, those who will be thrown into the Hell have been shown as follows:
"He (Satan) did lead me astray from the Message (of Allah) after it had come to me! Ah! the Evil One is but a traitor to man! Then the Messenger will say: "O my Lord! Truly my people took this Qur'an for just foolish nonsense." (Al-Furqan 25:29-30)
If someone well-versed in the dialect of Quraysh heard Qur'an first hand and ignored it, wouldn’t that be taking it as non-sense? How else can anyone take Qur'an as foolish non-sense except by not understanding it?
Regards
I have presented the translations of the Qur'anic texts which I understand from the Arabic text as well. I do not quote Abdullah Yousufali or any other scholar's translation unless I agree with their translation being closely representing what Qur'an is actually saying in its Arabic text.
I only provided the verse to give an indication of the theme of the Surah and as I have said, the entire Surah should be read to understand the point of view I am explaining. However, I did not want to post the entire text, so I only provided those verses that were needed to suffice for the explanation. I disagree with the point of view that the verse 58 of Ad-Dukhan points towards remembrance in the literal meaning tongue. Instead, the meaning of the word 'tongue' in translations that you may find can only be that which is given as 'spoken language or dialect' in The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. The explanation provided by user Hur is against the usage of the words. I will not want to dwell further in the details of the interpretation and the usage of words unless someone on this forum feels that explanation is needed.
Instead, I will like to present a very clear verse of the Qur'an, because of the ease of explanation in its interpretation. In Surah 12:1-3, Qur'an says,
"Alif Lam Ra. These are verses of a clear book. We have revealed this Arabic Qur'an so that you may understand."
The Arabic words that have been used are 'La'alakum ta'aqiloon'. Both these words can only be used for a plural audience in Arabic. Had a single person been addressed, the words would have to instead be 'La'alaka ta'aqul' or a similar construction. Therefore, it is clear that this address is to more than one person. The context of the verses that follow then goes onto explain the story of Prophet Yousuf (pbuh).
It must also be kept in mind that Qur'an has not addressed Prophet Muhammad (sws) only in its address. It has used phrases such as "O People!" (2:21) "O Children of Israel" (2:40) "O you who believe" (4:59). Qur'an has addressed all these people directly so in my opinion it is not possible to construe that Qur'an is not meant for us. Obviously, people at the time of the revelation of Qur'an spoke Arabic and understood it, it was not possible for them to listen to Qur'an and then not understand it. It is like saying that in modern day I will recite something in English but people who are listening cannot understand it even though it is their own language. Disbelievers at the time of Muhammad (sws) raised all kinds of objections on Qur'an but none of them was that how can this be Book of God which cannot be understood at all!
In Al-Fatihah, a believer asks God for showing the right path in verse 5. The Qur'an starts off by the following words:
"Alif Laam Mim. This is the Book, without doubt, a Guidance for those who fear God." (Al-Baqarah 1:1-2)
Muslims at the time of Muhammad (sws) where the daily prayer was enjoined were required to recite Al-Fatihah, asking for guidance from God, and then reciting a few verses from Qur'an as His answer to them.
Qur'an has clearly itself stated that it is guidance, how can it be guidance for anyone who cannot understand and get guidance from it! In Al-Furqan, those who will be thrown into the Hell have been shown as follows:
"He (Satan) did lead me astray from the Message (of Allah) after it had come to me! Ah! the Evil One is but a traitor to man! Then the Messenger will say: "O my Lord! Truly my people took this Qur'an for just foolish nonsense." (Al-Furqan 25:29-30)
If someone well-versed in the dialect of Quraysh heard Qur'an first hand and ignored it, wouldn’t that be taking it as non-sense? How else can anyone take Qur'an as foolish non-sense except by not understanding it?
Regards
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
Further points with respect to translations and interpretations:
Parts of Qur'an were translated into Persian by Salman Farsi while Prophet Muhammad (sws) was alive. Biographies on Salman Farsi usually carry this information. I will request user Hur to provide factual data which makes them believe why Qur'an has not been translated for 1400 years, even though history dictates otherwise.
Further, historical accounts bear witness that Muhammad (sws) used to like the gatherings of Muslims in the early time who used to sit and ponder upon the Qur'an and inform each other of their interpretations. Not only that, they would have differences of opinion and Muhammad (sws) sometimes even appreciated it. In addition, there are some reports that he used to prefer these gatherings as opposed to the gatherings arranged for Ibaadah.
I hope this helps.
Parts of Qur'an were translated into Persian by Salman Farsi while Prophet Muhammad (sws) was alive. Biographies on Salman Farsi usually carry this information. I will request user Hur to provide factual data which makes them believe why Qur'an has not been translated for 1400 years, even though history dictates otherwise.
Further, historical accounts bear witness that Muhammad (sws) used to like the gatherings of Muslims in the early time who used to sit and ponder upon the Qur'an and inform each other of their interpretations. Not only that, they would have differences of opinion and Muhammad (sws) sometimes even appreciated it. In addition, there are some reports that he used to prefer these gatherings as opposed to the gatherings arranged for Ibaadah.
I hope this helps.
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
.
Hur
AS
Your Comment;
To get clear picture you must start at 44:43 where Allah starts telling sinner what he will experience after death. Starting at 44:51 he tells what Al-Muttaqun will experience.
Here is a translation by N.J.Dawood, reportedly a non-Muslim (Penguin Classics Paperback-4th Edition page 149). He puts 51 to 57 in one paragraph and 58-59 in next to make it easy to understand.
As for righteous, they shall dwell in peace together amidst gardens and fountains, arrayed in rich silks and fine brocade. Yes, and we shall wed them to dark-eyed houris. Secure against all ills, they shall call for every kind of fruit; and having died once, they shall die no more. Your Lord will through His mercy shield them from scourge of Hell. That will be the supreme triumph. --------------(44:51 to 57)
We have revealed this to you in your own tongue so that they may take heed. Wait, then, as they themselves are waiting. ----------------(44:58-59)
As far as your comments about reading translations of various authors please note that translation you posted is by Shakir, which you failed to note. Now that I have posted Dawood’s translation it is very clear that last paragraph refers to passages in previous paragraph (and also Qur’an) and says that they were revealed in your (Prophets) tongue that is the language he spoke (Arabic).
Your comment;
Real reason Mr. Abdul Hussein and Bohra clergy are against reading any translations is not bacause it may contain some errors but fear that it may expose them to what they are teaching. Only uneducated mass can kiss feet of Sulatan, or beat himself silly every day and think that these acts will take them to Jannah.
If you do not understand Arabic, then you are better off reading various translations and Tafsirs and compare and contemplate on them.
Wasalaam
.
Hur
AS
Your Comment;
My comment:Now in reference to the passage...the ayat refers to ease of tongue for remembering...directly after refering to taste of death. It is a metaphorical statement that Allah uses often in Quran. If your interpretation is used...the ayat is totally out of place with the ayat before and after. Nowhere in the ayat or the ones before or after or in the passage does it refer to the Quranic text or understanding of the Quran...but it refers to heaven, hell and death.
To get clear picture you must start at 44:43 where Allah starts telling sinner what he will experience after death. Starting at 44:51 he tells what Al-Muttaqun will experience.
Here is a translation by N.J.Dawood, reportedly a non-Muslim (Penguin Classics Paperback-4th Edition page 149). He puts 51 to 57 in one paragraph and 58-59 in next to make it easy to understand.
As for righteous, they shall dwell in peace together amidst gardens and fountains, arrayed in rich silks and fine brocade. Yes, and we shall wed them to dark-eyed houris. Secure against all ills, they shall call for every kind of fruit; and having died once, they shall die no more. Your Lord will through His mercy shield them from scourge of Hell. That will be the supreme triumph. --------------(44:51 to 57)
We have revealed this to you in your own tongue so that they may take heed. Wait, then, as they themselves are waiting. ----------------(44:58-59)
As far as your comments about reading translations of various authors please note that translation you posted is by Shakir, which you failed to note. Now that I have posted Dawood’s translation it is very clear that last paragraph refers to passages in previous paragraph (and also Qur’an) and says that they were revealed in your (Prophets) tongue that is the language he spoke (Arabic).
Your comment;
Ibn Taymiyyah was born before Imam Abdul Wahab. I can understand your aversion for anything remotely connected to Abdul Wahab. I do not look at the messenger but at the message. I always ask "Is whatever Ibn Kathir wrote faithful to the teaching of Qur’an and Sunnah of Prophet SAW?". Please point out if that is not the case.Did you know Ibn Kathir was a stauched student of Ibn Taymiyyah of wahabbi fame!? This the kind of stuff Mr. Adul Husein refered to.
Real reason Mr. Abdul Hussein and Bohra clergy are against reading any translations is not bacause it may contain some errors but fear that it may expose them to what they are teaching. Only uneducated mass can kiss feet of Sulatan, or beat himself silly every day and think that these acts will take them to Jannah.
If you do not understand Arabic, then you are better off reading various translations and Tafsirs and compare and contemplate on them.
Wasalaam
.
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
I agree with MuslimFirst's last point. I spent time learning both the standard as well as classical Arabic, and more I learn, I realize that translations today are sufficient in almost all the cases. The minor differences that exist are not of sectarian nature. Those differences have only appeared due to lack of understanding of Qur'an itself.
"Remain attached to the Quran. Nobody should surpass you in being intent on it, or more sincere in implementing it.": Imam Ali.
"Remain attached to the Quran. Nobody should surpass you in being intent on it, or more sincere in implementing it.": Imam Ali.
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
Muslim First wrote :
==============================================
Real reason Mr. Abdul Hussein and Bohra clergy are against reading any translations is not bacause it may contain some errors but fear that it may expose them to what they are teaching. Only uneducated mass can kiss feet of Sulatan, or beat himself silly every day and think that these acts will take them to Jannah.
==============================================
Exactly,Our intellectual talent is remotely controlled by Sydna and the Kothar criminals.Not only our freedom speech our thoughts are controlled by these criminals. Hope with this era of information things will change soon.We have to educate the masses.
==============================================
Real reason Mr. Abdul Hussein and Bohra clergy are against reading any translations is not bacause it may contain some errors but fear that it may expose them to what they are teaching. Only uneducated mass can kiss feet of Sulatan, or beat himself silly every day and think that these acts will take them to Jannah.
==============================================
Exactly,Our intellectual talent is remotely controlled by Sydna and the Kothar criminals.Not only our freedom speech our thoughts are controlled by these criminals. Hope with this era of information things will change soon.We have to educate the masses.
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
Any transformation necessarily brings with it conflict and confusion, pain and penalty.
The 20th century industrial revolution opened the floodgates of change in the attitudes towards work, family, finance, loyalty and personal beliefs. It brought with it more powerful technologies, faster transportation, mass education and wider information networks.
It was many-sided social system that touched every aspect of the past. The change brought the future vision, which had important psychological effects even on the elites in the Dawoodi Bohra Community. They advocated for the modern education at the beginning of the century, which because of the opposition from the priesthood created conflicts and confusion and inflicted penalty and pain on them.
The Bohra religious hierarchy also underwent a shocking change by becoming more and more authoritarian and commercial than spiritual or religious. Immorality became their norm for taking advantage of the change and building their own financial empire. Against these odds the most painful struggle for reform and democracy in the community got stretched over for almost a century. The thousands of persons who suffered humiliation, torture and isolation at the hands of ruthless clergy are part of the history now.
The 51st Dai, Sayedna Taher Saifuddin occupied the seat of Dawat in 1915 and he died in 1965 establishing a stranglehold over the community during half a century of his 'rule'. Then came his son, 52nd Dai, Sayedna Burhanuddin who is dominating for the other half. But inspite of all their material resources and non-stop propaganda machinery they failed miserably in crushing down the demand for reforms, which in fact, was the demand of the time. The 52nd Dai had to ultimately bow down and change his authoritarian policies to more liberal and accommodative. This is the thrust of the change, which will be more obvious and more imperative in the 21st century.
The highly technological 21st century will write a new code of behavior for them. Tomorrow is not going to be an extension of today, mind it. The future is fluid, not frozen. It has lot of shocking surprises under its sleeves. The fast increase in the information technology - through media, TV channels, computers, Internet and satellite - is leading towards greater individuality and breaking the personality cult as people sitting at home are comparing many civilizations, individuals, cities, cultures and personalities.
The modern world is already witnessing machines that can hear, see, talk and touch with greater accuracy and precision than human being. Now the universe that seemed complex, unpredictable and mysterious looks quit friendly. Every phenomenon from the smallest atom in the human body to the biggest star in the distant sky can be understood. The hypothesis of miracle-man is becoming irrelevant.
The 21st century will topple the meaningless religious domination, reduce the overriding bosses to equal partners in the progress and completely overthrow authoritarianism based on right to decision-making only by few and rest to obey. The man will be free from the authority of religion, tyranny of orthodoxy and prejudices of super-naturalism.
The 20th century industrial revolution opened the floodgates of change in the attitudes towards work, family, finance, loyalty and personal beliefs. It brought with it more powerful technologies, faster transportation, mass education and wider information networks.
It was many-sided social system that touched every aspect of the past. The change brought the future vision, which had important psychological effects even on the elites in the Dawoodi Bohra Community. They advocated for the modern education at the beginning of the century, which because of the opposition from the priesthood created conflicts and confusion and inflicted penalty and pain on them.
The Bohra religious hierarchy also underwent a shocking change by becoming more and more authoritarian and commercial than spiritual or religious. Immorality became their norm for taking advantage of the change and building their own financial empire. Against these odds the most painful struggle for reform and democracy in the community got stretched over for almost a century. The thousands of persons who suffered humiliation, torture and isolation at the hands of ruthless clergy are part of the history now.
The 51st Dai, Sayedna Taher Saifuddin occupied the seat of Dawat in 1915 and he died in 1965 establishing a stranglehold over the community during half a century of his 'rule'. Then came his son, 52nd Dai, Sayedna Burhanuddin who is dominating for the other half. But inspite of all their material resources and non-stop propaganda machinery they failed miserably in crushing down the demand for reforms, which in fact, was the demand of the time. The 52nd Dai had to ultimately bow down and change his authoritarian policies to more liberal and accommodative. This is the thrust of the change, which will be more obvious and more imperative in the 21st century.
The highly technological 21st century will write a new code of behavior for them. Tomorrow is not going to be an extension of today, mind it. The future is fluid, not frozen. It has lot of shocking surprises under its sleeves. The fast increase in the information technology - through media, TV channels, computers, Internet and satellite - is leading towards greater individuality and breaking the personality cult as people sitting at home are comparing many civilizations, individuals, cities, cultures and personalities.
The modern world is already witnessing machines that can hear, see, talk and touch with greater accuracy and precision than human being. Now the universe that seemed complex, unpredictable and mysterious looks quit friendly. Every phenomenon from the smallest atom in the human body to the biggest star in the distant sky can be understood. The hypothesis of miracle-man is becoming irrelevant.
The 21st century will topple the meaningless religious domination, reduce the overriding bosses to equal partners in the progress and completely overthrow authoritarianism based on right to decision-making only by few and rest to obey. The man will be free from the authority of religion, tyranny of orthodoxy and prejudices of super-naturalism.
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
"The man will be free from the authority of religion, tyranny of orthodoxy and prejudices of super-naturalism. "
Well Said S.Insaf.
Bush is supposedly the leader of the most technologically advanced nation in the world. And he said that God asked him to do what he is doing in Iraq. So when you say that
"the 21st century will topple meaningless religious domination" I am not sure I can disagree with you more.
For the millions of people in Iraq and the millions more in palestine and the hungry in africa, the only hope for a better life, either here or in the hereafter, is provided by religion.
Technology has only produced more gruesome death.
Well Said S.Insaf.
Bush is supposedly the leader of the most technologically advanced nation in the world. And he said that God asked him to do what he is doing in Iraq. So when you say that
"the 21st century will topple meaningless religious domination" I am not sure I can disagree with you more.
For the millions of people in Iraq and the millions more in palestine and the hungry in africa, the only hope for a better life, either here or in the hereafter, is provided by religion.
Technology has only produced more gruesome death.
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
As I said in the beginning "Any transformation necessarily brings with it conflict and confusion, pain and penalty." Technological changes can't be an exception. But the very fact that we are using this technological platform to express our views without favour or fear is itself a proof of change of attitude and a part of mass education and wider information. This will again spread further awareness and result in change in attitude.
I understand that the death toll due to religious indifferences is much higher in human history than for any other reason.
I understand that the death toll due to religious indifferences is much higher in human history than for any other reason.
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
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Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
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I found warnig in Qur'an for people like Shaikh Mustafa Abdulhussein or HUR or Kothar and is as follows;
Allah SWT warns those who conceal message of Qur’an in2:174
Q2:174-176
Indeed those who conceal the commands that Allah has sent down in His Book and barter these away for paltry worldly gains, fill their bellies with fire. (173).Allah will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He regard them as pure, (174) and there is a painful doom for them. They are the people who have bartered Guidance for error, and God‘s pardon for His punishment. How audacious they are! They are ready even to undergo the torment of Hell. This was because, though Allah had sent down the Book with the Truth, those people who sought differences in the Book swerved far away from the Truth in their disputes.
(173) These were learned people, who, in spite of possessing the knowledge of scriptures, kept it back from common people, and were responsible for all the superstitions, false custom and unnecessary restrictions which were prevalent among them and which gave birth to new code of law. Besides this, they were also guilty of another crime. They did not utter a word against evil practices which began to spread as a result of that ignorance which had been deliberately created among them. Not only this; the majority of them considered this sorry condition to be advantageous to themselves and so let the Commandments of Allah remain hidden from the people.
(174) Here the false claims and misrepresentations of so-called “Spiritual” leaders and “Saints” have been refuted. They always try to impress upon common people that they are very pious and holy, and common people also believe them to be so. They presume and their followers believe that they will secure pardon for them by their intercession with Allah on their behalf. Allah warns that He will neither speak to these “Spiritual leaders” nor consider them as pious and holy, nor grant them the authority of intercession .
I found warnig in Qur'an for people like Shaikh Mustafa Abdulhussein or HUR or Kothar and is as follows;
Allah SWT warns those who conceal message of Qur’an in2:174
Q2:174-176
Indeed those who conceal the commands that Allah has sent down in His Book and barter these away for paltry worldly gains, fill their bellies with fire. (173).Allah will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He regard them as pure, (174) and there is a painful doom for them. They are the people who have bartered Guidance for error, and God‘s pardon for His punishment. How audacious they are! They are ready even to undergo the torment of Hell. This was because, though Allah had sent down the Book with the Truth, those people who sought differences in the Book swerved far away from the Truth in their disputes.
(173) These were learned people, who, in spite of possessing the knowledge of scriptures, kept it back from common people, and were responsible for all the superstitions, false custom and unnecessary restrictions which were prevalent among them and which gave birth to new code of law. Besides this, they were also guilty of another crime. They did not utter a word against evil practices which began to spread as a result of that ignorance which had been deliberately created among them. Not only this; the majority of them considered this sorry condition to be advantageous to themselves and so let the Commandments of Allah remain hidden from the people.
(174) Here the false claims and misrepresentations of so-called “Spiritual” leaders and “Saints” have been refuted. They always try to impress upon common people that they are very pious and holy, and common people also believe them to be so. They presume and their followers believe that they will secure pardon for them by their intercession with Allah on their behalf. Allah warns that He will neither speak to these “Spiritual leaders” nor consider them as pious and holy, nor grant them the authority of intercession .
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
Musalman and MuslimFirst,
I would like to make it clear that we are to try to understand the Quran. This doesn't mean by reading a translation we do or will understand the Quran. This is based on our ability to understand and comprehend the teachings. This is my arguement. Just because you have three translations that are similar..doesn't mean they're correct to begin with.
I used Shakir as a base and edited it as need. I have found his is closest to the literal words...where as the other grossly adlib. Yet even his I have found many mistakes. I am not a novice comparatively to arabic...but even I could pick these error out. This is why I question the use of translations blindly.
Musalman wrote:
"Instead, I will like to present a very clear verse of the Qur'an, because of the ease of explanation in its interpretation. In Surah 12:1-3, Qur'an says,
"Alif Lam Ra. These are verses of a clear book. We have revealed this Arabic Qur'an so that you may understand."
Two points:
1.) while you point out that the second verse refers to the general public, you failed to to mention the verse after "We reveal to you (Muhammad) the good/best stories unto to you of this Quran." The Quran was revealed to Muhammad to teach to the public. It is a book that needs explaination in every way. This is why the sunnah is so important...they are a recording of what was taught. The Prophet said the words of the Quran have an outer tanzil and an inner tawil.
2.) if the Quran is clear...what does alim lam ra mean?
Regarding translations...I didn't say it wasn't translates for personal use...but as an "official" book which is used authoritatively.
Regarding the gatherings...firstly their called sabaqs and is a tradition still practices by bohras. Secondly look whose teaching...Muhammad...not a follower of Muhammad.
MuslimFirst...firstly your evidence of argument is with another translation (a poor one at that..the word "revealed" isn't even in the verse)...how does that benifit the discussion.
Abdul Wahab based his learning on Ibn Taymiyyah. Ibn Kathir was a student of Ibn Taymiyyah as well.
I would like to make it clear that we are to try to understand the Quran. This doesn't mean by reading a translation we do or will understand the Quran. This is based on our ability to understand and comprehend the teachings. This is my arguement. Just because you have three translations that are similar..doesn't mean they're correct to begin with.
I used Shakir as a base and edited it as need. I have found his is closest to the literal words...where as the other grossly adlib. Yet even his I have found many mistakes. I am not a novice comparatively to arabic...but even I could pick these error out. This is why I question the use of translations blindly.
Musalman wrote:
"Instead, I will like to present a very clear verse of the Qur'an, because of the ease of explanation in its interpretation. In Surah 12:1-3, Qur'an says,
"Alif Lam Ra. These are verses of a clear book. We have revealed this Arabic Qur'an so that you may understand."
Two points:
1.) while you point out that the second verse refers to the general public, you failed to to mention the verse after "We reveal to you (Muhammad) the good/best stories unto to you of this Quran." The Quran was revealed to Muhammad to teach to the public. It is a book that needs explaination in every way. This is why the sunnah is so important...they are a recording of what was taught. The Prophet said the words of the Quran have an outer tanzil and an inner tawil.
2.) if the Quran is clear...what does alim lam ra mean?
Regarding translations...I didn't say it wasn't translates for personal use...but as an "official" book which is used authoritatively.
Regarding the gatherings...firstly their called sabaqs and is a tradition still practices by bohras. Secondly look whose teaching...Muhammad...not a follower of Muhammad.
MuslimFirst...firstly your evidence of argument is with another translation (a poor one at that..the word "revealed" isn't even in the verse)...how does that benifit the discussion.
Abdul Wahab based his learning on Ibn Taymiyyah. Ibn Kathir was a student of Ibn Taymiyyah as well.
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
Musalman and MuslimFirst,
I would like to make it clear that we are to try to understand the Quran. This doesn't mean by reading a translation we do or will understand the Quran. This is based on our ability to understand and comprehend the teachings. This is my arguement. Just because you have three translations that are similar..doesn't mean they're correct to begin with.
I used Shakir as a base and edited it as need. I have found his is closest to the literal words...where as the other grossly adlib. Yet even his I have found many mistakes. I am not a novice comparatively to arabic...but even I could pick these error out. This is why I question the use of translations blindly.
Musalman wrote:
"Instead, I will like to present a very clear verse of the Qur'an, because of the ease of explanation in its interpretation. In Surah 12:1-3, Qur'an says,
"Alif Lam Ra. These are verses of a clear book. We have revealed this Arabic Qur'an so that you may understand."
Two points:
1.) while you point out that the second verse refers to the general public, you failed to to mention the verse after "We reveal to you (Muhammad) the good/best stories unto to you of this Quran." The Quran was revealed to Muhammad to teach to the public. It is a book that needs explaination in every way. This is why the sunnah is so important...they are a recording of what was taught. The Prophet said the words of the Quran have an outer tanzil and an inner tawil.
2.) if the Quran is clear...what does alim lam ra mean?
Regarding translations...I didn't say it wasn't translates for personal use...but as an "official" book which is used authoritatively.
Regarding the gatherings...firstly their called sabaqs and is a tradition still practices by bohras. Secondly look whose teaching...Muhammad...not a follower of Muhammad.
MuslimFirst...firstly your evidence of argument is with another translation (a poor one at that..the word "revealed" isn't even in the verse)...how does that benifit the discussion.
Abdul Wahab based his learning on Ibn Taymiyyah. Ibn Kathir was a student of Ibn Taymiyyah as well.
If the messenger don't understand the message he teaching...what good is the message?
"Real reason Mr. Abdul Hussein and Bohra clergy are against reading any translations is not bacause it may contain some errors.."
So far we arguing over the understanding of just 8 verses of translation. Don't you find that disturbing?
"If you do not understand Arabic, then you are better off reading various translations and Tafsirs and compare and contemplate on them."
MuslimFirst..if you didn't understand surgery, are you better off reading a couple of books by other people and figuring it out for yourself...or struggling and learning through the proper studies yourself?
The basics and practice of Islam is simple. For further knowledge (marifah) it is not so simple.
Imam Ali also said true understanding of the Quran can only be obtained from the ahlul bayt.
I would like to make it clear that we are to try to understand the Quran. This doesn't mean by reading a translation we do or will understand the Quran. This is based on our ability to understand and comprehend the teachings. This is my arguement. Just because you have three translations that are similar..doesn't mean they're correct to begin with.
I used Shakir as a base and edited it as need. I have found his is closest to the literal words...where as the other grossly adlib. Yet even his I have found many mistakes. I am not a novice comparatively to arabic...but even I could pick these error out. This is why I question the use of translations blindly.
Musalman wrote:
"Instead, I will like to present a very clear verse of the Qur'an, because of the ease of explanation in its interpretation. In Surah 12:1-3, Qur'an says,
"Alif Lam Ra. These are verses of a clear book. We have revealed this Arabic Qur'an so that you may understand."
Two points:
1.) while you point out that the second verse refers to the general public, you failed to to mention the verse after "We reveal to you (Muhammad) the good/best stories unto to you of this Quran." The Quran was revealed to Muhammad to teach to the public. It is a book that needs explaination in every way. This is why the sunnah is so important...they are a recording of what was taught. The Prophet said the words of the Quran have an outer tanzil and an inner tawil.
2.) if the Quran is clear...what does alim lam ra mean?
Regarding translations...I didn't say it wasn't translates for personal use...but as an "official" book which is used authoritatively.
Regarding the gatherings...firstly their called sabaqs and is a tradition still practices by bohras. Secondly look whose teaching...Muhammad...not a follower of Muhammad.
MuslimFirst...firstly your evidence of argument is with another translation (a poor one at that..the word "revealed" isn't even in the verse)...how does that benifit the discussion.
Abdul Wahab based his learning on Ibn Taymiyyah. Ibn Kathir was a student of Ibn Taymiyyah as well.
If the messenger don't understand the message he teaching...what good is the message?
"Real reason Mr. Abdul Hussein and Bohra clergy are against reading any translations is not bacause it may contain some errors.."
So far we arguing over the understanding of just 8 verses of translation. Don't you find that disturbing?
"If you do not understand Arabic, then you are better off reading various translations and Tafsirs and compare and contemplate on them."
MuslimFirst..if you didn't understand surgery, are you better off reading a couple of books by other people and figuring it out for yourself...or struggling and learning through the proper studies yourself?
The basics and practice of Islam is simple. For further knowledge (marifah) it is not so simple.
Imam Ali also said true understanding of the Quran can only be obtained from the ahlul bayt.
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
Sorry,
the second post is correct...the first was a slip of the cursor.
the second post is correct...the first was a slip of the cursor.
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
S. Insaf and anajmi,
thank for going of the subject.
MuslimFirst,
No one says to conceal the Quran! But be wise of what the translation says...it is not the Quran.
thank for going of the subject.
MuslimFirst,
No one says to conceal the Quran! But be wise of what the translation says...it is not the Quran.
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
Assalamu Alaykum,
The first two verses are addressed to Muslims in general, which should be translated such as "all of you" while the next *can* (I do not imply that it does) be taken to mean directly to Prophet (sws).
Secondly, even if I am unable to understand these verses, that is my weakness. I cannot challenge Qur'an's claims that it should be understood on this basis.
I am of the opinion that these are the names of some of the the Surahs set by the Almighty. The reason being that Arabs in the sixth century also used to name things based on such letters. For example, they called money as 'ain', mountains as 'qaaf' and fish as 'noon'. However, I also understand that there are a lot of differences of opinion in this regard, so I may be incorrect. That does not imply that we stop our effort to fulfill the commandments of understanding the Qur'an as put forth by the Almighty.
Comments are welcome.
Best Regards
And that is also why I mentioned that the first two verses cannot be applied to a singular person, therefore they cannot be applied to Muhammad (sws) only. The verse that follows is not the same context. It is a new beginning of the story, not directly related to the previous verses. Just because they are together in the Qur'an does not mean that one's legislation applies to the other. You will agree with me that the first two verses use "kum" whereas the following verses us "ka" instead of "kum" (And similarly other constructions for singular vs. plural) which is an obvious difference between a plural entity and singular entity respectively.1.) while you point out that the second verse refers to the general public, you failed to to mention the verse after "We reveal to you (Muhammad) the good/best stories unto to you of this Quran." The Quran was revealed to Muhammad to teach to the public.
The first two verses are addressed to Muslims in general, which should be translated such as "all of you" while the next *can* (I do not imply that it does) be taken to mean directly to Prophet (sws).
Please provide supporting arguments. Qur'an however clearly states it is a *clear* book, that its 'tawil' is known only to Allah (and not even Prophet (sws)) (Al-e-Imran 3:7) and that it must be understood by everyone. Unless stronger supporting arguments can be provided to a different effect, it cannot be said that there is an internal Tawil and an external meaning.It is a book that needs explaination in every way. This is why the sunnah is so important...they are a recording of what was taught. The Prophet said the words of the Quran have an outer tanzil and an inner tawil.
If you read sixth century Arabic poetry, to which Qur'an presented itself as a literary masterpiece, you will realize that such letters were a part of their poetry and they were well aware of their usage. They raised all kinds of objections on Qur'an, which have been noted by Qur'an itself, but none of these objections was that how can this Book be from God which cannot even be understood, especially the first verse "Alif. Laam. Mim". Since Qur'an was a literary masterpiece, Qur'an used their style and challenged them using that.2.) if the Quran is clear...what does alim lam ra mean?
Secondly, even if I am unable to understand these verses, that is my weakness. I cannot challenge Qur'an's claims that it should be understood on this basis.
I am of the opinion that these are the names of some of the the Surahs set by the Almighty. The reason being that Arabs in the sixth century also used to name things based on such letters. For example, they called money as 'ain', mountains as 'qaaf' and fish as 'noon'. However, I also understand that there are a lot of differences of opinion in this regard, so I may be incorrect. That does not imply that we stop our effort to fulfill the commandments of understanding the Qur'an as put forth by the Almighty.
I do not understand what 'official' means? If Muhammad (sws) is alive, Salman Farsi translates the Qur'an in Persian which is in Prophet (sws)'s knowledge, what else is official? Prophet (sws) could have stopped if that was not good.Regarding translations...I didn't say it wasn't translates for personal use...but as an "official" book which is used authoritatively.
Comments are welcome.
Best Regards
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
Apologies. The reference was supposed to be Al-e-Imran 3:6 and not 3:7.
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
Musalman,
Actually the verses, all three, are in context as well as the rest of the passage. You choose for them not to be. The Quran is a book used for guidance to mankind (kum)...with Muhammad (ka) as its explainer and mouthpiece for understanding it. This is why Allah say to obey Allah and His messengers. The Quran is clear when explained.
It is not different than a book on physics. Yes the layman can read it...but has little true understanding of it contents. Thus you need a physic professor to teach you what is in the book.
Regards to tawil..read the arabic and not the translation. None save Allah and those firmly grounded in knowledge (Illa Allah wa rasakuna fil ilmi. Ya kulluna amina bihi kullo min indi rabbana.) this is another explain of incorrectly inserted meanings; just by a break, the meaning of the sentence change. If is the way you say the construct of the sentence is incorrect...the ya wouldn't be there.
The Prophet and Imam Ali both are reported claimed knowledge of the unseen revealed by Allah to them. The Prophet said in sahih hadith that I have fought for the tanzil and Maulana Ali will fight for the tawil of the Quran.
An please don't argue as though the traditions shouldn't be followed (you know...the Quran alone dogma). It is defeated by the Quran itself.
The translation the Salman Farsi used was for his personal use for understanding and explaining as he went back to Persia in dawah. The translation was approved for use in that way...not as the authoritative book to be mass copied. You reference constantly translations..as though the meaning are correct and is what Allah and Prophet intended for the Quran. You nor I know that.
I didn't say not to learn and understand the Quran...but learn from the original arabic and base it on the traditions of the Prophet.
Actually the verses, all three, are in context as well as the rest of the passage. You choose for them not to be. The Quran is a book used for guidance to mankind (kum)...with Muhammad (ka) as its explainer and mouthpiece for understanding it. This is why Allah say to obey Allah and His messengers. The Quran is clear when explained.
It is not different than a book on physics. Yes the layman can read it...but has little true understanding of it contents. Thus you need a physic professor to teach you what is in the book.
Regards to tawil..read the arabic and not the translation. None save Allah and those firmly grounded in knowledge (Illa Allah wa rasakuna fil ilmi. Ya kulluna amina bihi kullo min indi rabbana.) this is another explain of incorrectly inserted meanings; just by a break, the meaning of the sentence change. If is the way you say the construct of the sentence is incorrect...the ya wouldn't be there.
The Prophet and Imam Ali both are reported claimed knowledge of the unseen revealed by Allah to them. The Prophet said in sahih hadith that I have fought for the tanzil and Maulana Ali will fight for the tawil of the Quran.
An please don't argue as though the traditions shouldn't be followed (you know...the Quran alone dogma). It is defeated by the Quran itself.
The translation the Salman Farsi used was for his personal use for understanding and explaining as he went back to Persia in dawah. The translation was approved for use in that way...not as the authoritative book to be mass copied. You reference constantly translations..as though the meaning are correct and is what Allah and Prophet intended for the Quran. You nor I know that.
I didn't say not to learn and understand the Quran...but learn from the original arabic and base it on the traditions of the Prophet.
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
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And if that was the case, please point me to a member of ahlul bayt or a work of translation by them.Imam Ali also said true understanding of the Quran can only be obtained from the ahlul bayt.
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Re: What Qur'an says about reading and understanding it.
The point is they worked from the arabic..not a translation. There were many Imams and dais that taught and translated into different language...but never written and published. Look how many of the great Ismaili Dais were from Fars and spoke Farsi fluently. They didn't publish there translation apart from the arabic. Majority of their own works are in arabic.And if that was the case, please point me to a member of ahlul bayt or a work of translation by them.