It seems to me that you care more about money than what is being done. How much have you donated? If you said none, then I do not want to hear a single word from you.
I have donated more than my fair share, and I am not complaining. As for the men who bought houses after building the New Jersey Masjid: both those events are not related in any way. If you information saying otherwise, then you are looking in the wrong places.
Toronto masjid fund drive
-
Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
apparently some fanatics on this forum seem to exist in some medieval world, where they perceive themselves as knights in shining armour out to defend their faith and their lame duck establishment, which has no real answers, just haphazard half-truths and 'feelings'!
bros saif and hussain believe that if they have thrown down the proverbial gauntlet then we perforce have to respond! well, my friends your efforts in defending lies are so laughable, that to carry the metaphor forward,...it is beyond Quixotic! as he lunged at imaginary windmills with his wooden sword so do u. perhaps your situation is more pathetic because you have nothing beyond a puny toothpick...!!
since you have both have now seized upon the issue of multiculturalism and find the employment of a hindu lady accountant in our masjid perfectly acceptable, nay even noble, then lets encourage this lofty endeavour of yours even further, shall we?
let us get hindu caterers to supply us excellent food with a far greater variety than we are getting now, incl. goan, sindhi, rajasthani, south indian, bengali dishes etc. heck, let us get our poor jobless bohras employed by getting some eminent speakers and leaders from other faiths to come into our masjis and address us, eg. the archbishop of toronto, the pandit of the vedanta society, the imam of the ahmediyya masjid, etc. why not? the goodwill we will earn can translate into jobs for our mumineen not only here in canada but in india too, as you have so pertinently pointed out.
your enthusiasm for multiculturalism is credit worthy and deserves recognition at the highest levels. we must empower you to act on your suggestions and employ more non-bohras and non- muslims as a rule in our masjids, not as an exception. we must also campaign to see that other religious communities too employ our bohras. the new swaminarayan mandir at 427 and finch, the new ithna-ashari centre coming up in richmond hill etc and many many more, should be compelled to employ bohras, esp. as accountants and office managers.
i plan to approach the queen's representative in canada, The Right HON., H.E. Michaelle Jean, the Governor General of Canada, through my local Federal M.P. to have you cited for the 'Order of Canada', in recognition of your valiant efforts to uphold the principles of a pluralistic society. Hats off to you brother!!
bros saif and hussain believe that if they have thrown down the proverbial gauntlet then we perforce have to respond! well, my friends your efforts in defending lies are so laughable, that to carry the metaphor forward,...it is beyond Quixotic! as he lunged at imaginary windmills with his wooden sword so do u. perhaps your situation is more pathetic because you have nothing beyond a puny toothpick...!!
since you have both have now seized upon the issue of multiculturalism and find the employment of a hindu lady accountant in our masjid perfectly acceptable, nay even noble, then lets encourage this lofty endeavour of yours even further, shall we?
let us get hindu caterers to supply us excellent food with a far greater variety than we are getting now, incl. goan, sindhi, rajasthani, south indian, bengali dishes etc. heck, let us get our poor jobless bohras employed by getting some eminent speakers and leaders from other faiths to come into our masjis and address us, eg. the archbishop of toronto, the pandit of the vedanta society, the imam of the ahmediyya masjid, etc. why not? the goodwill we will earn can translate into jobs for our mumineen not only here in canada but in india too, as you have so pertinently pointed out.
your enthusiasm for multiculturalism is credit worthy and deserves recognition at the highest levels. we must empower you to act on your suggestions and employ more non-bohras and non- muslims as a rule in our masjids, not as an exception. we must also campaign to see that other religious communities too employ our bohras. the new swaminarayan mandir at 427 and finch, the new ithna-ashari centre coming up in richmond hill etc and many many more, should be compelled to employ bohras, esp. as accountants and office managers.
i plan to approach the queen's representative in canada, The Right HON., H.E. Michaelle Jean, the Governor General of Canada, through my local Federal M.P. to have you cited for the 'Order of Canada', in recognition of your valiant efforts to uphold the principles of a pluralistic society. Hats off to you brother!!
-
accountability
- Posts: 1640
- Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
This is the "Problem". As Zulfiqar pointed out, so called self appointed caretakers and defenders of "faith" are everywhere. HB did not answer any questions, rather in general terms he tried to make sense out of nonsense.
I querried, why did syedna saheb spend million dollar on a masjid renovation, which even did not belong to us. What great purpose was he fulfilling. Or was it just public relation excercise. Which even did not yield any result.
I did donate towards every fund raising campaign. I do pay sabeel etc very regularly. My wife thinks, that this is what we should do, and as she is my life partner, I without agreeing with her find it hard to ignore her wish. Having said that now she is coming to realization, that there is something wrong in this money grabbing business.
You say, you have donated your fair share, I think the wise thing for any donation is to follow up with its progress. Donating to a good cause, whose funds are readily misappropriated is not a very good idea. I appreciate your feelings. But I may not find myself agreeing to a notion, that your endeavour was to donate and then forget. If allah wants charity, he does not need it for him, but he wants his creations (makhluq) to be helped. If we go by your logic, then no body on earth will be helped. Instead there will be only scams, and people will just plunder funds in the name of god and what not.
The whole universal system depends on justice and accountability. If you take these both ingredients out, then the whole system will collapse. I would suggest, do donate to noble cause, but make sure that they are used for the very purpose.
I querried, why did syedna saheb spend million dollar on a masjid renovation, which even did not belong to us. What great purpose was he fulfilling. Or was it just public relation excercise. Which even did not yield any result.
I did donate towards every fund raising campaign. I do pay sabeel etc very regularly. My wife thinks, that this is what we should do, and as she is my life partner, I without agreeing with her find it hard to ignore her wish. Having said that now she is coming to realization, that there is something wrong in this money grabbing business.
You say, you have donated your fair share, I think the wise thing for any donation is to follow up with its progress. Donating to a good cause, whose funds are readily misappropriated is not a very good idea. I appreciate your feelings. But I may not find myself agreeing to a notion, that your endeavour was to donate and then forget. If allah wants charity, he does not need it for him, but he wants his creations (makhluq) to be helped. If we go by your logic, then no body on earth will be helped. Instead there will be only scams, and people will just plunder funds in the name of god and what not.
The whole universal system depends on justice and accountability. If you take these both ingredients out, then the whole system will collapse. I would suggest, do donate to noble cause, but make sure that they are used for the very purpose.
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
They know our weakness is our wives and children, that is why they have the audacity to ask for such sums of money. Sabeel, Wajebaat etc. is turning out to be a big farce. Sabeel is receipted donations. Wajebaat is un-receipted donations. And yet ALL the funds are repatriated to their Bank Accounts in Switzerland, New York, London etc. What a nice set-up.
Collect in the name of religion, live a lavish life in the Western World, do not, and I repeat, do not account for any funds collected. Promote Office Bearers (Aayans) by giving them titles like Sheikhs, NKD's etc. They are ready to serve now that they are "part of a cause" eh? Never ever hold any elections at any of the "Profit Centres" (that's Jamaats for the rest of us). Always nominate the Aayans. Always send an Aamil from India to every "Profit Centre". Never ever have any Aamil appointed locally; you never know where his allegiance may be. Always tell the Mumineen to be faithful to the Country you reside in, but never practice any faithfulness by ensuring that there is no accountability of funds collected, otherwise the rest of the World will know how we live !!!
Why haven't any local Newspapers caught onto this, I wonder? Surely there is room for them to expose this Masjid Collection Scheme to the rest of the World, I'd say.
Collect in the name of religion, live a lavish life in the Western World, do not, and I repeat, do not account for any funds collected. Promote Office Bearers (Aayans) by giving them titles like Sheikhs, NKD's etc. They are ready to serve now that they are "part of a cause" eh? Never ever hold any elections at any of the "Profit Centres" (that's Jamaats for the rest of us). Always nominate the Aayans. Always send an Aamil from India to every "Profit Centre". Never ever have any Aamil appointed locally; you never know where his allegiance may be. Always tell the Mumineen to be faithful to the Country you reside in, but never practice any faithfulness by ensuring that there is no accountability of funds collected, otherwise the rest of the World will know how we live !!!
Why haven't any local Newspapers caught onto this, I wonder? Surely there is room for them to expose this Masjid Collection Scheme to the rest of the World, I'd say.
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
He spends the peanuts on restoration to create a smokescreen behind which he can fleece the bohra sheep to inches down their skins.Originally posted by accountability:
Why has sayedna saheb taken upon himself to restore all the masjids and maqbaras around the world at the expense of this community.
While he is dancing his naked dance of plunder , the rulers of those countries choose to look the other way. Perhaps to the chandeliers and wood carvings.
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
Because you are assured of much more than your fair share in return.Originally posted by Hussain B:
I have donated more than my fair share, and I am not complaining. As for the men who bought houses after building the New Jersey Masjid: both those events are not related in any way.
And don't worry, when you buy a lavish house after the masjid is done, we are not going to relate the two events..... for there will start another 'restoration' project somewhere to keep us busy..
-
accountability
- Posts: 1640
- Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
Tahir, dont you think, this is ironic.The restoration of a masjid in Jordon costed us around million dollars, I was there in 1999, when syedna saheb had to inaugrate the mosque, but king of jordan did not confirm the date, later it was inaugrated. Immediately after the inaugration, the masjid was taken over by Jordon's auqaf.
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
Al-Zulfiqar:
First some points of clarification before I deal with your hypocritical diatribe/verbal diarrhea.
1. I am not a “Johnny-come-lately member as you are. You only seem to have joined this forum in late March 2006. I have been a member from time immemorial; I suppose when you were in your soiled diapers – i.e. full of it, and still more now, through force of habit.
2. Secondly, I am not a fanatic as you stupidly appears to have assumed and hence “made an arse/*** (hole) of yourself, etc.". I have been a progressive for over 35 years and not a card-carrying Kothari. Just because I politely pointed out your personal racist follies (re. blacks, and Hindus – not “out to defend their faith and their lame duck establishment, which has no real answers, just haphazard half-truths and 'feelings'!â€
First some points of clarification before I deal with your hypocritical diatribe/verbal diarrhea.
1. I am not a “Johnny-come-lately member as you are. You only seem to have joined this forum in late March 2006. I have been a member from time immemorial; I suppose when you were in your soiled diapers – i.e. full of it, and still more now, through force of habit.
2. Secondly, I am not a fanatic as you stupidly appears to have assumed and hence “made an arse/*** (hole) of yourself, etc.". I have been a progressive for over 35 years and not a card-carrying Kothari. Just because I politely pointed out your personal racist follies (re. blacks, and Hindus – not “out to defend their faith and their lame duck establishment, which has no real answers, just haphazard half-truths and 'feelings'!â€
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
if the administration is reading this, i would appreciate it if you would cancel my account; i have several bad things to say and wish not to say them.
"many fanatic bohras and paid employees of the kothar are misusing the freedom given here to spread hatred and poison." if the dawaat wanted to discontinue this site, they would have done it long before this site ever materialized.
i stay with everything i have said in this message board.
"many fanatic bohras and paid employees of the kothar are misusing the freedom given here to spread hatred and poison." if the dawaat wanted to discontinue this site, they would have done it long before this site ever materialized.
i stay with everything i have said in this message board.
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
if the dawaat wanted to discontinue this site, they would have done it long before this site ever materialized.
Well then, perhaps the all-powerful dawaat can cancel your account on this site for you. Why ask the admin?
Well then, perhaps the all-powerful dawaat can cancel your account on this site for you. Why ask the admin?
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
dumbass there is a reason y the dawaat didnt get rid of this site.
-
accountability
- Posts: 1640
- Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
HB: you want to put your two cents into this.The restoration of a masjid in Jordon costed us around million dollars, I was there in 1999, when syedna saheb had to inaugrate the mosque, but king of jordan did not confirm the date, later it was inaugrated. Immediately after the inaugration, the masjid was taken over by Jordon's auqaf.
-
accountability
- Posts: 1640
- Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
goog language, well done. keep it up.dumbass
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
i told you i wanted my account cancelled. until you do...i can say what ever i please.
in regard to the jordan masjid: its a masjid, either for us for them. what difference does it make? if you paid for it, do you want your name plastered all over the place?
in regard to the jordan masjid: its a masjid, either for us for them. what difference does it make? if you paid for it, do you want your name plastered all over the place?
-
kabeer19922001
- Posts: 109
- Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:01 am
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
Hussain B writes
"in regard to the jordan masjid: its a masjid, either for us for them. what difference does it make? if you paid for it, do you want your name plastered all over the place? "
I hope HB understands what he is writing. What difference does it make?? I see the whole Bohra ideolgy shaking!!!
Has he forgotten the perpetual cursing that goes on the Bohra Mosques against the first three Caliphs and their followers. How can the Bohri's curse someone and then build mosques for them to continue with their so called wrong deeds.
Why don't they admit that being a human, the dai made a grave error and forget the whole story rather than issuing stupid statements and making a fool of themselves.
"in regard to the jordan masjid: its a masjid, either for us for them. what difference does it make? if you paid for it, do you want your name plastered all over the place? "
I hope HB understands what he is writing. What difference does it make?? I see the whole Bohra ideolgy shaking!!!
Has he forgotten the perpetual cursing that goes on the Bohra Mosques against the first three Caliphs and their followers. How can the Bohri's curse someone and then build mosques for them to continue with their so called wrong deeds.
Why don't they admit that being a human, the dai made a grave error and forget the whole story rather than issuing stupid statements and making a fool of themselves.
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
How can the Bohri's curse someone and then build mosques for them to continue with their so called wrong deeds.
The Jordanian mosque in question, I assume, is the mosque near the tomb of Jafar al-Tayyar, a cousin of Imam Ali - am I right? It is a site of 'ziyarat' for Bohras. If this expense was pointless then its no different than expenses in building or renovating mosques and 'zarihs' around Egypt, Syria, Palestine and Iraq. All the sites have to be handed over to the government, many Arab countries do not have a concept of private mosque ownership. Even if they did, there would be no question that the Sunnis being the majority would benefit more from them than the ziyarat-visiting Bohras. I'm not sure what the big fuss is about.
The Jordanian mosque in question, I assume, is the mosque near the tomb of Jafar al-Tayyar, a cousin of Imam Ali - am I right? It is a site of 'ziyarat' for Bohras. If this expense was pointless then its no different than expenses in building or renovating mosques and 'zarihs' around Egypt, Syria, Palestine and Iraq. All the sites have to be handed over to the government, many Arab countries do not have a concept of private mosque ownership. Even if they did, there would be no question that the Sunnis being the majority would benefit more from them than the ziyarat-visiting Bohras. I'm not sure what the big fuss is about.
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
Jeez, Hussain B:
Dude, if you want to quit, just do it-QUIT! Stop yapping and pissing/moaning asking Admin to cancel your account! YOU joined this Forum voluntarily...YOU can opt out ANYTIME!
And FYI, this site is NOT under the Kothar's control. This is NOT Mumineen.org, or Malumaat.com.....I like both of these sites as well!
Dude, if you want to quit, just do it-QUIT! Stop yapping and pissing/moaning asking Admin to cancel your account! YOU joined this Forum voluntarily...YOU can opt out ANYTIME!
And FYI, this site is NOT under the Kothar's control. This is NOT Mumineen.org, or Malumaat.com.....I like both of these sites as well!
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
Some days back this board was a 'cursed lot' of loosers...now suddenly it becomes a good site.......sniff sniff!! I can sense an application for the secure forum coming admin's way...
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
Well, the issue is I dislike chronic complainers. On one hand they want to air their grievences(sp?), on the other, they cannot stand criticism and want to complain about it! C'ON! This is not kindergaten!
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
Al-M,
According to you, previously:
What a cursed bunch you are! When the Dai is ill, just like your parent would be ill, the entire community feels for him! Only our Dua to Allah Subhanahu and the hope that Allah will listen to us-will make Aqa well.
Please explain your sudden change of stance.
According to you, previously:
What a cursed bunch you are! When the Dai is ill, just like your parent would be ill, the entire community feels for him! Only our Dua to Allah Subhanahu and the hope that Allah will listen to us-will make Aqa well.
Please explain your sudden change of stance.
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
You are taking me out of context here. The posting you happen to quote was discussing the fact that some folks here are overjoyed when Aqa Moula falls sick. That, to me, is a low life. One rejoicing on another human being's suffering?? Inexcusable!
There is no change of heart here. Some points brought up in this Forum are quite valid! If we want to progress in life, we cannot simply shut out all opposing voices and pretend it's all a mirage. As free-thinking humans, we crave to understand situations, etc.
There are real and serious problems within our Bohra communities. A few years ago, I was at another phycisians party, and I happened to meet an ABCD Bohra couple. We happened to chat and their views of our community were an eye-opener. These guys have lost, to me, all semblance of community. Instead, they try and emulate the whiteys. Well, the whiteys live like that, it is their culture to be that way. It just does not blend with the Asian ideology. Needless to say, this couple were in that situation-trying to reconcile their Asianness, while trying to "blend" in. There are huge values in our culture and beliefs. You don't need to follow everything.
We Bohras love this old cliche when someone voices their opinion about the exhorbitant "donations" we are giving.."You pay for Membership at the Gym, don't you?" Or "If you are a citizen of a country you have to follow the rules, right?" When religion becomes equated to "human" qualities, we lose all semblance of God and His infinite beauty. I mean, when being a Member of a religious Organization means there are security concerns, then NOONE is safe. Look at the crazy Talibans! We Bohras ought to listen to people who criticize us, and make amends when we are in the wrong! It's unacceptable of a Bhaisaheb or Shazadah to punish someone or force someone to pay more than they can afford! This is NOT like paying taxes....where are my worldly benefits, then? It's unacceptable for Bhaisahebs to preach that you fall sick because you are a sinful person....well RasulAllah SAW died due to illness.....see my thread of arguement?
There is no change of heart here. Some points brought up in this Forum are quite valid! If we want to progress in life, we cannot simply shut out all opposing voices and pretend it's all a mirage. As free-thinking humans, we crave to understand situations, etc.
There are real and serious problems within our Bohra communities. A few years ago, I was at another phycisians party, and I happened to meet an ABCD Bohra couple. We happened to chat and their views of our community were an eye-opener. These guys have lost, to me, all semblance of community. Instead, they try and emulate the whiteys. Well, the whiteys live like that, it is their culture to be that way. It just does not blend with the Asian ideology. Needless to say, this couple were in that situation-trying to reconcile their Asianness, while trying to "blend" in. There are huge values in our culture and beliefs. You don't need to follow everything.
We Bohras love this old cliche when someone voices their opinion about the exhorbitant "donations" we are giving.."You pay for Membership at the Gym, don't you?" Or "If you are a citizen of a country you have to follow the rules, right?" When religion becomes equated to "human" qualities, we lose all semblance of God and His infinite beauty. I mean, when being a Member of a religious Organization means there are security concerns, then NOONE is safe. Look at the crazy Talibans! We Bohras ought to listen to people who criticize us, and make amends when we are in the wrong! It's unacceptable of a Bhaisaheb or Shazadah to punish someone or force someone to pay more than they can afford! This is NOT like paying taxes....where are my worldly benefits, then? It's unacceptable for Bhaisahebs to preach that you fall sick because you are a sinful person....well RasulAllah SAW died due to illness.....see my thread of arguement?
-
accountability
- Posts: 1640
- Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:01 am
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
welcome to truth. Mortals we all are. No one lives for ever. disease and miseries are just facts of life. It has nothing to do with dua or baddua. You are right, no one should rejoice other's miseries. it is a very low life.
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
No one was overjoyed at dai's illness. If someone says otherwise, he is pretending to have missed the entire point.
Re: Toronto masjid fund drive
You are taking me out of context here. The posting you happen to quote was discussing the fact that some folks here are overjoyed when Aqa Moula falls sick.
Al-Muizz,
Actually, the original poster (omabharti) did not even mention Sayedna falling sick. The topic was "Thaal in Saify Mahal", but your reply included curses on "you guys".
Here is the full post:
Topic: Thaal in Saify Mahal
So what happens when the points are not valid? Will you return to invoking your curses on reformists and invite them to the "Noor"?
Al-Muizz,
Actually, the original poster (omabharti) did not even mention Sayedna falling sick. The topic was "Thaal in Saify Mahal", but your reply included curses on "you guys".
Here is the full post:
Topic: Thaal in Saify Mahal
Some points brought up in this Forum are quite valid! If we want to progress in life, we cannot simply shut out all opposing voices and pretend it's all a mirage.omabharti"
- posted 02-03-2006 04:24 PM
Asalam Alekum
I thought that we are supposed to eat in THAAL.
This is from Malumaat.com where people in Saifee Mahal are eating in paper plates. Also did not they announce that nobody is supposed to come to Saify Mahal so how these people are allowed
Most important what happend to THAAL which is requied in every JAMAAT including USA and UK
http://www.malumaat.org/pics/ashara1427 ... ics_10.jpg Posts: 104
Al-Muizz
- posted 02-03-2006 04:54 PM
Man, the state of the Shias is sad, indeed. Here we have someone arguing why Moumeen are eating from disposable plates rather than thaals----yet they are eating in a jumla, aren't they?
What is wrong with you people?!? You guys are a cursed bunch-Do you not realize that this is Muharram, that this is the time to pray and ponder what Husayn A.S. did for us all?
What a cursed bunch you are! When the Dai is ill, just like your parent would be ill, the entire community feels for him! Only our Dua to Allah Subhanahu and the hope that Allah will listen to us-will make Aqa well.
And yes, Indeed, it is amazing that Aqa is well for the waaez. You can see he is in pain, but if you believe in the spirit of Allah, then you can see it in him.
Of course, you cursed bunch would not understand this at all. You guys, afterall, are similar to those who gave Imam Husayn their support, only to run away and leave him when he came to their aid!
May Allah Bless you all and keep you safe from karbin wa balaah! May you all see the Noor that will show you the way to Siraat-E-Mustaquim!
http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/cgi-bin/U ... 1;t=001565
So what happens when the points are not valid? Will you return to invoking your curses on reformists and invite them to the "Noor"?