Saifuddin Insaf to undergo heart surgery

[Admin]

Accountability,

It's best to call him after Wed/Thu after he is out of the ICU. You can call him any time during the day - local India time.

Here are his contact numbers:

Phone: 2590 42 51 (Home)
Cell : 981 988 4226

[accountability]

Admin, Please let know, when he is out of ICU.

[Admin]

As we said above, he should be out of the ICU by Wed/Thu.

[S. Insaf]

Dear friends,
I have come back home but normalcy will take about two more weeks before I can resume my participation in the debate.

I will be amongst you through my dictations to Komal, my assistant.

Thank you all for your prayers and good words for me.
Saifuddin Insaf

[porus]

Saifuddinbhai Insaf,

Wewlcome back. Wishing you a speedy recovery and looking forward to your always informative contributions.

Take care.

[like_minded]

Welcome back Saifuddin bhai!! Wish you a speedy recovery.

[JC]

Welcome back! Saif Bhai.

Hope, wish and pray for your speedy recovery.

[Above Average Bohra]

Insaf bhai,

Welcome back. I hope and pray to Allah for your speedy recovery.

[Danish]

Saifuddin, good to hear from you and better yet that your operation is over and recouping.

Since you and Ali Asghar bear the courage to speak out for truth and justice on humanitarian grounds whilst possessing the knowledge and experience that you both have, I would, however, very much like to have a discussion/debate with you and/or Ali Asghar against my criticisms towards God, Quran and Islam in a diligent, peaceful, unbiased and approachable manner. Please let me know if you wish to participate when you are fully recovered and ready. Thanks and best wishes.

[S. Insaf]

Brother Danish,
You would like to have a discussion/debate with me against your criticisms towards God, Quran and Islam in a diligent, peaceful, unbiased and approachable manner.
You are most welcome by me but please do not use this Bohra board for such discussin. You may write to me on my e-mail address
sinsaf@yahoo.com

[Hussain_KSA]

Originally posted by S. Insaf:
Brother Danish,
You would like to have a discussion/debate with me against your criticisms towards God, Quran and Islam in a diligent, peaceful, unbiased and approachable manner.
You are most welcome by me but please do not use this Bohra board for such discussin. You may write to me on my e-mail address
sinsaf@yahoo.com

Insaf saheb

The whole muslim world is protesting and bycotting danish's crap now a days. I don't understand you approving such kind of discussion.

[S. Insaf]

Brother Hussain_KSA,
I agree with you. But there is no harm in discussing the matter with Brother Danish. Let him put forward his point of view and I will put mine with authentic sources. Do not worry he is not going to influence me.
The Prophet Hazarat Mohammed (pbuh) has set an example of discussion even with hardcore enemies of Islam. This is also the duty assigned to us by our Dawat mission. Earlier Dais like Qutbuddin Shaheed and Fakhruddin lost their lives while performing this duty.

[Hussain_KSA]

Wish you good luck sir.

[Gulf]

Originally posted by S. Insaf:
Brother Hussain_KSA,
Let him put forward his point of view and I will put mine with authentic sources.
This is also the duty assigned to us by our Dawat mission. Earlier Dais like Qutbuddin Shaheed and Fakhruddin lost their lives while performing this duty.

please be more specific

[porus]

The reason I objected to Danish's participation on this forum was his abusive insult to Prophet. All his "criticisms" of Quran are regurgitations of Islamophobes which are readily available on the Web. If he is sincere in his quest for knowledge, he should not start with insults to those personalities that millions hold sacrted, Muslims and N.on-Muslims. I would not object to critcising the manner in which some beliefs are held

All his crticisms of Quran have been adequately answered and are also readily available on the net. We can discuss these answers. Many answers by believers are simply silly and are regurgitated by ignorant people. But others are very good.

As an example, read this good response about "cutting off hands" for theft:

http://www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/theft.htm

[Danish]

Originally posted by S. Insaf:
But there is no harm in discussing the matter with Brother Danish. Let him put forward his point of view and I will put mine with authentic sources. Do not worry he is not going to influence me.

Appreciate your willingness to discuss some of my concerns. Now whether you get influenced or not, is not my problem but I shall certainly bring out the flavor which may give assurance in reflection and insurance on my part. You can, however, begin by answering some of the questions requested here on this forum that are still unanswered. If you'd like, I can open up an exclusive thread under the section of "Islam Today". Once again, this is only a discussion and not to compell reversion. Who knows, I may learn something new myself.

Earlier Dais like Qutbuddin Shaheed and Fakhruddin lost their lives while performing this duty.

There are countless number of people who have sacrified their lives for whatever reasons throughout history and even today, but why must only a few matter so much whom you had no personal touch yet emulate, exalt and invoke them and beat your chests and heads upon. Your own Quran states that they are the community of the past and are not answerable to you for their chapters have been closed and their judgements rests upon Allah. Are you not certain that your Allah can take care of them?

Many Imams and Bibies who were the true followers of Muhammad were far superior to your Dais and yet you (the shias) give lanats to them. Why? Are you aware that the most highly revered scholar of Islam known throughout the world today, Zakir Naik, had prayed that Allah's peace and mercy be upon Yazeed? This has shaken up the shia community who have condemned Zakir Naik for such utterance but Dr. Naik instead of apologizing, gave a tantalizing response to shut them up.

[porus]

Danish,

You are an arrogant and extremely ignorant about Quran, Islam and human societies. If you seek knowledge in humility, you might learn something.

As to why Muslims, except Wahhabis, celebrate Prophet's birthday and not of Buddha or Danish, you might consider what a Muslim's connection to Prophet is, even though he died long time ago. As to why you would celebrate your son's birthday and not birthdays of billions of other people, you might search your psyche.

I am ready to respond to you question about Zakir Naik. But, except Wahhabis, who amongst Muslims, would invoke blessings on Yazid? (He actually said radiallahu anhu, but you are just spouting your ignorance).

Sunnis use RA after Khalifas and Hussain. Why would YOU use it for Yazid, when more than 99% of Muslims would view him with extreme disfavor?

I am interested in your personal position. Explain your hatred and we can then deal with it.

[porus]

Danish,

For centuries, Quran has been studied by Muslim scholars. Instead of reading their commentaries you choose to lift passages from translations devoid of intertextuality and context. You are much worse than those who rely on transalations.

Your most fundamental duty is to learn Arabic and Quran so that you can debate with Muslims. Translations, no matter how respected, are not Quran. Before anyone can discuss Quran, the first hurdle to overcome is whether your translation is in fact what Quran says.

So, next time, quote Quran in Arabic and let me know what it means to you. You may have to go to classes to learn Quranic Arabic. That is ok.

By the way, intertextuality refers to the fact one part of Quran explains other parts. Context refers to the reason for revelation, asbab ub-nuzul. And there is a whole science called "wujuh al-quran", which deals with how meanings of the same word is changed in different contexts.

once you have learned some of these, you will be ready toi dicuss Quran with knowledgeable Muslims.

[Danish]

Porus,

Please stick to your dictums with humility. I am not here to talk about Budhas and birthdays but Islam and its belief systems. Just so that you know, celebrating birthday is universal and not mandatory and neither it is specific to Islam.

As far as learning Arabic and/or contextual exegesis of the Quran is concerned, neither you nor any individual is its sole caretaker. You can discuss the issues without drumbeating on my knowledge about Quran.

[porus]

Danish,

Beating breasts for Husain is universal among Shia, to offer mass for Christ is universal among Catholics, worshipping Krishna is universal among Hindus. So why pick on Muslims? It is because you are reacting against Islam because you percieve you were brainwashed into it against your wishes. You can now un-brainwash yourself.

You do not take a translation of Quranic ayat (most are inaccurate anyway) out of context and throw at Muslims in arrogant contempt. You have responsibility to learn first. Your response shows your arrogance. It is easily irresponsible for you to quote "Kill polytheists wherever you find them", yet you do not investigate its context first. If Muslims believe what you say, then Muslims would have killed all the people of the world except ahlul kitaab. You might wonder how Islam spread to Indonesia without any battle.

You can discuss why people believe in God without insulting Islam and its Prophet. Belief in God is pretty universal amongst all the peoples of the planet. Why don't you quote from Bible or Veda or Dhammapad? You don't because I suspect you have not found a site which berates their beliefs in the manner that Islamophobes berate Islam.

You are both ignorant, arrogant and easily manipulated. It is Islamophobe's turn now. I recall you had a soft spot for Rashid Khalifa once. Wait for the next Western fashion. They will soon demonise China and their "holy" scriptures. Then you can do that too.

[Danish]

Porus, please stick to Islam and the question posed earlier (edited below):

There are countless number of Muslim people who have sacrified their lives for whatever reasons throughout history and even today, but why must only a few matter so much whom you had no personal touch yet emulate, exalt and invoke only the few and beat your chests and heads upon. Your own Quran states that they were the community of the past and you are not responsible for what they did and not answerable to you for their chapters are closed and their judgements rests upon Allah (2:134, 2:141). Are you not certain that your Allah can take care of them and don't you believe in your Quran?

You can discuss why people believe in God without insulting Islam and its Prophet.

The Quran is the word of Muhammad, which in turn is the word of Jabraeel, which in turn is the word of an Allah. So discussing Allah would be the same as discussing Muhammad since Muhammad uttered the words to his people in deed and practice, neither Jabraeel nor Allah.

Belief in God is pretty universal amongst all the peoples of the planet.

The belief in God as a general rule is somewhat Universal amongst religionists but the Gods are different.

[Danish]

Originally posted by Hussain_KSA:
Wish you good luck sir.

Thank you.

[porus]

<p class="MsoNormal" dir="RTL" style="text-align:right;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:
embed"><span lang="AR-SA" style="font-size:24.0pt">دانيش،</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" dir="RTL" style="text-align:right;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:
embed"><span lang="AR-SA" style="font-size:24.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" dir="RTL" style="text-align:right;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:
embed"><span lang="AR-SA" style="font-size:24.0pt">في رائ، لن يحدّث أحد المسلمين
منّك في موضوء القرأن الكريم، يا حمّار!</span></p>

[Hussain_KSA]

الأخ العزيز بورس حفظكم الله

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته،،،،،

أنا موافق و أحترم لرائيك وحيث أن الله سبحانه وتعالي قد أفاض عليك من فيضه وجودة بالعلم والفهم الرشيد والقويم الرجاء التكرم عدم التناقش والتجادل الغير مثمر مع ملحدون و مرتدون في موضوع القرآن الكريم تنزيل رب العالمين والرسول و شريعة الإسلام. هذا المجادلة الغير صحيحة قد يؤدي إلي تشويش و سوء الفهم حول شريعة الإسلام بين أعضاء المنتدى الآخرين.
ولكن لا يعني هذا بعدم الدفع عن الإسلام بل هو موضوع أساسي للداعية المجد من أجل رفعة الإسلام.

شاكرو مقدر لحسن تفاهمكم ولك فائق الاحترام،،،،،،،

أخوك في الإسلام

[S. Insaf]

Brother Danish,
No discussion of the sort on this Dawoodi Bohra board. I gave you my e-mail address and would like you to discuss on the e-mail. Then only it will be between you and me. Not that I am affraid to discuss with you openly but not on this platform.

[ponga bhori]

Originally posted by S. Insaf:
Brother Danish,
No discussion of the sort on this Dawoodi Bohra board. ..................Not that I am affraid to discuss with you openly but not on this platform.

Excellent.
Please include me and many others interested in this discussion.
You may upload to web and "ALLOW" permitted only as "VIEWERS" and/or "DISCUSSERS" to your choices. "VIEWER" for me is okay.

Thanks.

[porus]

<p class="MsoNormal" dir="RTL" style="text-align:right;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:
embed">
<span lang="AR-SA" style="font-size: 20.0pt; font-family: Traditional Arabic; color: black">
 </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" dir="RTL" style="text-align:right;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:
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<span lang="AR-SA" style="font-size: 20.0pt; font-family: Traditional Arabic; color: black">
الأخ حسين_ك.س.ا</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" dir="RTL" style="text-align:right;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:
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<span lang="AR-SA" style="font-size: 20.0pt; font-family: Traditional Arabic; color: black">
اشكرك لكلامك لطيفة.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" dir="RTL" style="text-align:right;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:
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<span lang="AR-SA" style="font-size: 20.0pt; font-family: Traditional Arabic; color: black">
انا اتّفق معك مطلقاً. لن أظلّ  أيّ محادثة مع هاذا الحمّار بسم دانيش.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" dir="RTL" style="text-align:right;direction:rtl;unicode-bidi:
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<span lang="AR-SA" style="font-size: 20.0pt; font-family: Traditional Arabic; color: black">
والسّلام</span></p>

[Danish]

Porus, stick to my previous post.

كتابك مقدّسة شرّيرة ويجعل بشيطانة ، [و] خنوص
Kitabuka mukaddast shar-reerat wa yaj-Al bis shaitaanatu, ya khunoos.

[Danish]

أنت لا تتلقّى الشجاعة أن يتناقش لأنّ أنت يستطيع لا يفهم ك خاصّة كتاب حمقاء.

[porus]

Originally posted by Danish:
Porus, stick to my previous post.

كتابك مقدّسة شرّيرة ويجعل بشيطانة ، [و] خنوص
Kitabuka mukaddast shar-reerat wa yaj-Al bis shaitaanatu, ya khunoos.

Admin,

It is time to terminate this hate-monger. This post of his translates thus:

"Your holy book is mischievous and has been put here through Shaytan, O pig"

This is a gross insult to Quran. He has already abused the Prophet in most insulting way. Why do you condone such behavior?