Unfair Admin rules

[Africawala0000]

Admin,

Why did you close the topic on Good Muslims? If you are uncomfortable with clarifications from Ismailis, then why bother allowing slanders, lies and Fitanas against us?

Muslim First (Fitnati) started the topic and you could have stopped it. But no, you decided to let him and others have their say and when I declared that I was going to post my response today, you decided to close the topic? Are you that biased?

If you do not want us to participate then fine, but then why allow the maligners against us get through?

This is the second time you have deprived me of responding to the garbage that is being posted on this site against Ismailis.

At least give me the opportunity to respond to some home made b.s. from Jamanpasand and others.

I have seen you allow a lot of rubbish against Syedna and others, and you have even encouraged others to post such material. Is this what you are all about, the progressives? You just want to hear the bad stuff against your adversaries or people you do not like but you close the topic when people want to clarify misconceptions against them.

I am truly disappointed.

[pardesi]

GOOD MUSLIMS
SURPRISE, SURPRISE!!

A KID SNEAKS OUT OF HIS HOUSE AND GOES TO THE NEIGHBOR'S YARD AND DUMPS HIS TRASH ON NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY AND BEFORE THE NEIGHBOR HAS A CHANCE TO REACT THE KID RUNS BACK TO THE SAFE CONFINES OF HIS HOME.

MY DEAR MUSLIM FIRST, THANKS FOR POSTING ISMAILI LINKS TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS EVEN THOUGH I ASKED NOT TO COPY/PASTE FROM OTHER WEBSITES AND ENLIGHTEN ME WITH YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE ISSUES.

GINAN - Ginan was used to explain a lot of Quranic verses to the newly converted Ismaili muslims who happened to be hindu and very poor/uneducated and obviously had never heard of Arabic. Ginan was never meant to nauzubillah replace Quran-e-Sharif. Now you guys do not like Ginan but it has become a wonderful tradition for us and we can not let it go. By the way a lot of Ismailis learn and recite Quran. Quranic Ayats are recited in Jamatkhana also.

Tasbih. Tasbih is Dhikr-e-Allah. The prophet and his ahlul bayt and select sahabas would do dhikr at night until morning. Some muslims at that time did not find it appealing or found it to be too much of a burden so they wouldn't do it. Nothing wrong with that. This is perfectly Islamic no matter what you guys think.

Chanta. Well my friends explaining Chanta is like teaching Statistics to a 5th grade student in Pakistan. You read on internet and you come to your own conclusions. You never give yourself a fair chance to dig deep into the deeper meaning of anything for that matter. Read a book called Shahnama-e-Islam by Hafeez Jhalandhry. There is mention of Prophet Mohammad giving Chanta to his Ahlul-bayt. Although symbolic, we have faith in it. What would you understand. You only compare it to baptising or hindu ritual. Come to think of it Chanta is part of almost every religion. May be not called Chanta but Water is used to purify the body and soul. I think Jews and Sikh community has the same. Jibrael AS opening Prophet Mohammad's body and what did he do? Cleans the insides with what?

Wadhu is done to purify your body before you go say prayers (again Water is used). Where do you go to say your prayers? A masjid. Can we say we are in Allah's presence and he is watching when we say our prayers. My belief is that this is the same reason a dead body is given a bath before the body is burried in dirt. So why Ghusal for the dead? Because he is going in the court of The Almighty and must be atleast bodily pure. Do you think the body goes to Allah. No, but its only symbolic. May be my understanding is wrong. Correct me if I am wrong and I wouldn't argue. Afterall we are all humans. This does not mean that Ismailis do not do Wadhu. My friends we Ismailis teach our children to take a shower and clean our whole body before going to Jamatkhana for prayers everyday with that specific purpose in mind. (Niyat). What do you guys clean? Just toes? We do more in wadhu than in the Quran. Still nobody has answered my question, Why did Allah ask people to do Wadhu "when getting ready" for prayers?

Qibla. I wanted to only know if there is any reason mentioned by the Prophet for changing of the Qibla. I had learned (and not from any Ismaili source either) that there was a dispute among Muslims as they were tired of Jews telling them that they face the Jewish Qibla in prayers and the Prophet looked towards the Sky (Allah) for guidance and that is when Allah asked Prophet to change the Qibla during the prayers.
But He also said that Allah is present wherever you turn but since it was probably a wish of muslims to face the Ka'aba, He granted it and yet the Ayat starts with Allah saying (my understanding) it doesn't matter to Allah wherever you face (because He is closer to a MOMIN than his jugular veins). This does not mean that Ismailis are told not to face the Qibla.

A lot of you guys will add to your knowledge by visiting the following link. Just read and accept as much as your heart tells you to and reject the rest. I did and Masha Allah have a better understanding.

All you so called Alims and people with knowledge may have the last say. I have said what I wanted to. I ask Allah to forgive me if I said anything that goes against His Commands and add to my knowledge as he may please.

Ya Ali Madad.
pardesi

P.S. ADMIN, please add this post as my answer to "Good Muslims". I have the right to answer and ask my post be included so if someone reads the whole thread say a few years from now, they wouldn't think that Ismailis had no answer.

[salim]

Quran 17(Bani Israel):53,54

â€

[salim]

(Qur’ân 5:48)
"Unto every one of you We have appointed a (different) law and way of life. And if God had so willed, He could surely have made you all one single community; but (He willed it otherwise) in order to test you by means of what He has given you. Vie, then, with one another in doing good works! Unto God you all must return; and then He will make you truly understand all the differences in which you were engaged in dispute.â€

[Africawala0000]

Dear Salim and Pardesi,

You are both right and have produced good posts. I think MF will read them with one eye open and half brain closed because he is still stuck on horse racing. Horse racing was started by the Prophet and has continued. Our Imam does not gamble but Prophet allowed betting! So MF why are you following this Prophet?

MF sounds like a broken record. He is also stuck on the Plight of Danyal Ali which I told him was a hoax.

As regards Qibla, you are right in what you said. There are Ayats and one such ayat was even quoted by MF "It is not righteous you turn to the East or West..."

I have responded to each and every post of MF with clarifications from the Qur'an and ahadith, the only books, be probably ever read in his life, but he never responds to my questions.

Once again, just one question, MF, who is your Imam, please let me know, may be I will join you. He has to be from the Ahle Bayt . Because I do not wish you to die a death of a Jahaliya. Afterall, you are a good preacher but not a good practitioner. And you slander and lie a lot, not to forget how much fitnas you create. Is this what your Imam teaches you? If so then it is time to change the name of your religion or get far away from your Imam.

I have more Jaman for your thought from Sahih Bokhari and I will post it soon, i.e. if the Admin does not close the subject again.

Wasalaam.

[pardesi]

My Dear Muslim First,

I hope you read this so I will be discharged of my duties.

Following is a copy of the receipt of a donation I made to Danyal Ali's fund. The donation was made on behalf of three concerned people. I have deleted my name wherever it appears on the receipt. Out of $50.00, $15.00 donation was made on your behalf. Thank you and may Allah bless you and your children and give you the reward in this life and in the hereafter ten folds.

2006-04-08 12:01:25.4 Order# 15495232-040806120114
Donor Information
Name: xxxxx xxxxxx
Phone: 678-475-9210
E-mail: xxxxxxxxxx@bellsouth.net
Address: xxx xxxxx xx
Duluth, GA 30096 USA
Active.com Newsletter? No
Donation Information
Organization: Danyal Ali Cancer Fund
Campaign: Danyal Ali's Fight For Life
Fundraiser: Moiz Moosa
Federal Tax ID: Bank Account #6415135052
Amount: $50.00
Total: $50.00
Payment Information
Credit card: Visa
Name on card: xxxxx xxxxxx
Card number: XXXX XXXX XXXX 2723
Expiration: 03/08
Charge Amount: $50.00

You may print a copy of this receipt for your records but unfortunately you will not be able to receive any tax credit from IRS.

[anajmi]

pardesi,

According to Africawala0000

MF sounds like a broken record. He is also stuck on the Plight of Danyal Ali which I told him was a hoax.

Looks like you have been conned.

[pardesi]

May be Africawala needs to rephrase his response for people who like to twist the words to mislead and misrepresent. I know and MF knows what he meant.

I will let Africawala answer to you. As for Danyal Ali, Mr. Najmi, you believe everything you hear even if you cant comprehend. Danyal's case is genuine and I have personally met him. I know his family and I know which hospital he is in. Those who believe it is a hoax are under no obligation to help anyway.

Thank you.

[anajmi]

pardesi,

You know his family and you know the hospital he is in and all you could muster was a paltry 35 bucks? ($15 was for MF).

And Africawala0000 calls him a hoax.

Poor Danyal Ali. With friends like these....

[pardesi]

My dear Mr. Anjami,

Please read my post carefully. I said that it was on behalf of three concerned people. One of them was MF, whether he was concerned or not, and the other two were people I work with. Two American christians. One donated $25.00 and the other donated $10.00. So there you go, a total of $50.00 including $15.00 on behalf of MF. I am donating separately according to my ability.

Thank you and may Allah increase your knowledge and understanding.

[pardesi]

On the question of Danyal Ali fund being a hoax, I invite you my brother in Islam, Mr. Anajmi, to come to Atlanta and be my guest for as long as you would like. I will take you to the hospital he is admitted in so you can see for yourself.

Now dont ask me to send you a ticket. You can atleast do that much for yourself in search of truth.

Ya Ali Madad.

[pardesi]

My phone # is on that receipt I posted few posts ago.

[anajmi]

pardesi,

That was my mistake. I apologize.

Deleting your name and displaying your phone number is not a wise thing to do.

I would advise you to request Admin to delete your phone number from your post.

[Admin]

Dear Africawala,

Of late we have noticed that there's an increasing focus on Ismailis - pro and con - which we don't mind, but only up to a point. The decision to close the topic had nothing to do with not allowing Ismailis to respond. Over three pages of discussion (plus other similar topics) we think everybody had a fair chance of respoding to one another on the subject.

When a discussion exhausts itself and deteriorates to a mere war of words, the best thing to do is close it and move on.

[pardesi]

Dear Admin,
Thanks for responding. I agree with you that most discussions end up in war of words.

Since there hasn't been anything posted lately by the opponents of Ismailis on that subject, I would request that you include the few posts here to "Good Muslims". That would be very reasonable and we would feel that we were treated fairly.

Thanks again.
pardesi

[Muslim First]

.

I am going to post response to your post here at appropriate place. Perhaps in Islam Today forum.

Islam is based on Qur'an and sunnah of Prophet and one must let it be known.

Wasalaam
.

[Admin]

Dear Pardesi,

We do not want to cut and paste your replies to the said topic. What we can do is open the topic for a couple of days for you and others to post your responses.

Admin

[Amicus Mellitus]

Now we read

"Even during Prophet’s time there was no set prayer"

This is an utterly idiotic statement tantamount to shaking the very foundation of Islam.

Inn assalat Kanat alal mumineena kitabam mauqoota.
Surah Nisayu ayah 103

Such an statement could not possibly come from a Muslim

No adjective is good enough to describe such a twisted mind.

This person will receive no further attention from me, he may blast his brains (or bottom for that matter) shouting further absurdities.

[Africawala0000]

AM,

I quoted what was in your own books. So blame them not me.

Prayers were shortened and lengthened - Prophet himself initiated that. You are no judge of people's Imans. There are other ahadith whereby the prayers were started late or early because of the change in climate. Want to see them?

There was no second Azan for Juma prayers during the Prophet's time, so why do you have that? It is not my business to Judge you and call you non-Muslims because of that. But you take it upon yourself to judge people even when Allah and his Prophet have said that Allah is the only Judge.

[Muslim First]

.
Br. Ameccus Mellitus

AS

I was going thru Shahih Bukhari's chapters related to prayers.

Here is what Prophet said;

------------------
Volume 1, Book 8, Number 387:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah."

Narrated Maimun ibn Siyah that he asked Anas bin Malik, "O Abu Hamza! What makes the life and property of a person sacred?"
He replied,

"Whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', faces our Qibla during the prayers, prays like us and eats our slaughtered animal, then he is a Muslim , and has got the same rights and obligations as other Muslims have."

Volume 1, Book 8, Number 391:
Narrated Ibn Abbas:

----------
What is prays like us?
Prayres five times a day with Fird prayers and Nawafils.

What is our Qibla?
Kabba.

Case closed.

One must oppose these so callled Muslims at leaset by words and let them know.

Wasalaam.
.

[Africawala0000]

some more Jaman

Vol II p.219 No. 1209:

Aisha narrated: I used to stretch my legs towards the Qibla of the Prophet PBUH while he was praying: whenever he prostrated he touched me, and I would withdraw my legs, and whenever he stood up, I would restretch my legs.

Qibla: Vol VI page 19:

These are not my words but as I found them in the Book:

The fools among the people will say: “What has turned them (i.e. Muslims) from their Qibla (i.e. Prayer Direction) to which they were used? Say: To God belong both East and west (2:142)

“The Fools among the people will say: “What hath turned them from the Qibla to which they were used? “Say to God belong both East and West: He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straightâ€

[Africawala0000]

MF

One must oppose these so callled Muslims at leaset by words and let them know.

You don't have to oppose us, call Bukhari.

I have proved to you from Bukhari that the Asr prayer is optional, in Prophet's own words; also Aisha said the Prophet did not offer Forenoon prayer.

I have told you that the Prophet of Islam did not wish any hardship or inconvenience on the people and I posted the ahadith in reference to that. Just because others do not recite the prayers the way you do, does not mean they are not Muslims. First of all as a Muslim you have no right to Judge others! And I am still waiting to know the name of your Imam, because in addition to what you say, the Prophet has also said, whosoever dies without knowing his Imam will die a death of Jahaliya. After all you consider yourself a knower of Islam What crap!

Now, tell me during the Juma prayers, at the Prophet's time there were two adhans?. But since Othman's time there are two adhans. Does that mean that you are praying the same way as the Prophet did or you have changed, and will Allah S.W.T. turn a deaf ear to your prayers because it is not done as the Prophet prescribed? also the regular adhan was changed by Omar. Do you think Omar was smarter than the Prophet to have added that line about "prayer is better than sleep"? Didn't the Prophet not know that Prayer is better than sleep?

Be practical brother, don't be so rigid and quick to call others non-Muslims. We do not know how long we have on this earth - better to be good people than hateful people. Your hatred towards other Muslims, different from you, is not hurting anybody but yourself. Like it or not Ismailis and other mulsims will be here long after you have gone and your lectures here will have not made any difference to them because your language is that of hatred. People don't like that.

[anajmi]

Volume 1, Book 10, Number 527:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever misses the 'Asr prayer (intentionally) then it is as if he lost his family and property."

Volume 1, Book 10, Number 506:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "If there was a river at the door of anyone of you and he took a bath in it five times a day would you notice any dirt on him?" They said, "Not a trace of dirt would be left." The Prophet added, "That is the example of the five prayers with which Allah blots out (annuls) evil deeds."

Volume 1, Book 10, Number 500:

Narrated Ibn Shihab:

Once'Umar bin 'Abdul 'Aziz delayed the prayer and 'Urwa bin Az-Zubair went to him and said, "Once in 'Iraq, Al-MughTra bin Shu'ba delayed his prayers and Abi Mas'ud Al-Ansari went to him and said, 'O Mughira! What is this? Don't you know that once Gabriel came and offered the prayer (Fajr prayer) and Allah's Apostle prayed too, then he prayed again (Zuhr prayer) and so did Allah's Apostle and again he prayed ('Asr prayers and Allah's Apostle did the same; again he prayed (Maghrib-prayer) and so did Allah's Apostle and again prayed ('Isha prayer) and so did Allah's Apostle and (Gabriel) said, 'I was ordered to do so (to demonstrate the prayers prescribed to you)?'" 'Umar (bin 'Abdul 'AzTz) said to 'Urwa, "Be sure of what you Say. Did Gabriel lead Allah's Apostle at the stated times of the prayers?" 'Urwa replied, "Bashir bin Abi Mas'ud narrated like this on the authority of his father." Urwa added, "Aisha told me that Allah's Apostle used to pray 'Asr prayer when the sun-shine was still inside her residence (during the early time of 'Asr)."

Volume 1, Book 10, Number 505:
Narrated 'Abdullah:

I asked the Prophet "Which deed is the dearest to Allah?" He replied, "To offer the prayers at their early stated fixed times." I asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, "To be good and dutiful to your parents" I again asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, 'To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's cause." 'Abdullah added, "I asked only that much and if I had asked more, the Prophet would have told me more."

Volume 1, Book 10, Number 518:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

"The Prophet prayed eight Rakat for the Zuhr and 'Asr, and seven for the Maghrib and 'Isha prayers in Medina." Aiyub said, "Perhaps those were rainy nights." Anas said, "May be."

Volume 1, Book 10, Number 519:
Narrated Aisha:

Allah's Apostle used to offer the 'Asr prayer when the sunshine had not disappeared from my chamber.

[salim]

Quran 17(Bani Israel):53,54

â€

[Africawala0000]

Anajami,

I checked for the first two ahadith you have provided in Vol I and they did not check out. I am not saying you are lying. I have Arabic-English version and the first two ahadith did not match with what I have. I did not check or read the rest for obvious reasons.

The fact that the ahadith you provided contradict the ones I have provided proves that Islam is not a rigid religion. I believe each hadith was addressed to a certain group of people at a certain time in different context.

You have still not told me, and you do not have to tell me if you do not want to, why you are observing 2 adhan during Friday prayers, whereas during the Prophet’s time, there was one adhan.. Othman introduced that well after the Prophet and the two other Caliphs.

Why do you recite “prayer is better than sleepâ€

[anajmi]

African,

And I guess the hadith for horse racing were addressed to your Imam only.

Let me answer your stupidity. Nothing that Umar or Uthman did contradicts any hadith or any ayah of the quran.

Now compare that with - no namaz, no roza, no Hajj, yes gambling, yes drinking, yes interest!! Get the point???? I doubt it!!

[anajmi]

Besides, I also said that an Imam needs to satisfy some criteria. When I find someone who does, I will follow him. Right now the Imam of our mosque or that of a few other mosques that I know, are better qualified to be Imams than Aga Khan.

[Africawala0000]

Hey Potty Mouth,

When you have no answers and find yourself in corner, you try to pick on my Imam to make me angry, but I am not going to fall for that any more. Is this the only way you can avoid answering my questions? Have you noticed, so far I have answered all your questions, but you have not answered mine. Instead you have showed your weakness by attacking my Imam. Nothing new - your people pelted the Prophet, disobeyed the Prophet, as I proved to you Omar did and changed the presecriptions of the Qur'an within 13years of the Prophet's passing.

You think your line of Roza and Namaz is going to get you off the hook - No way! Now tell me why did Omar change the Adhan that the Prophet had prescribed, and why two Adhans on Friday as prescribed by Othman and not the Prophet. And where are the Imams that Allah S.W.T. provided from the Progeny of Abraham? Are your spitting Mullas from the Progeny of Abraham? Do you really spit on your left side in the Mosque? Do you still fast by holding a white thread in the dark and break it the same way? If not, why?

The horse racing hadith was for the Prophet and not my Imam. Imam is doing what the Prophet did, except that he is not encouraging betting as the prophet did.

Why are you changing the subject.

Did Omar disobey the Prophet or not by denying him the pen and paper and instead saying that he is a sick man and we do not need anything in writing from him, Qur'an is enough.

To refresh your memory, I had previously stated that Omar changed the prescriptions as follows:

The Qur'an says to cut off a thief's hand at the wrist, Omar said not to do so because they needed to "steal" because of famine.

2. The Qur'an says a divorce should be given in 3 sittings, Omar said in one.

3. Qur'an said that part of Qarde hasana should be spent to keep the Christians and Jews quiet and prevent them from harassing the Muslims; Omar said that Qarde Hasana should not be spent on them as the Muslims were in stronger position. Allah S.W.T. says not to raise your voice to the Prophet and not to doubt him because whatever the prophet does is Allah's will. But what happened during the treaty of Al-Hudaibiya? Omar got angry at the Prophet, did not trust him and questioned him repeatedly. He then went to abu Bakar and repeated the same. So what can I expect of you gutter mouth?

Whether they were changed for good or bad reasons, they were changed soon after the Prophet. He even altered the prescribed adhan, did he not?

Stop your cowardice and stop changing the subject. Stay the course or just shut up.

[anajmi]

African,

Let me try to get through your thick skull one more time.

I pray two rakats of namaz every night for the suffering muslims of Palestine and Iraq. According to your Ismaili logic, that is not something the prophet did, so I shouldn't be doing it!!

Does that answer all your questions? Please do not ask any more questions. I have to scratch my head for hours after reading them!!

Here is one more criteria for being an Imam. The Imam should be a hafiz of the quran. Does your Imam know the entire quran by heart? If he doesn't, he does not qualify to be an Imam.

[pardesi]

Anajmi wrote:

"African,

Let me try to get through your thick skull one more time.

I pray two rakats of namaz every night for the suffering muslims of Palestine and Iraq."

Anajmi, you forgot to mention the muslims of Kashmir. You must be an Indian or Arab sympathiser. Why only Palestine and Iraq? Why not the whole Ummah, like we Ismailis do? May be not every day but regularly nevertheless.