I met one of my known dawoodi bohra when I was on travel. He has taken part in the moharram at Dubai. He has given me a report of what he has done during his trip in which there was nothing regarding vaez but how he has enjoyed his trip! He has done every thing including womanizing. When I asked him that the Dubai mumenins have spent lots of money to listen to Aqa Moula’s vaez and not for your entertainment. His reply to this is shocking and I wish that every body who are spending for this tamasa should read this:
He told that fools are spending and wise are taking advantages of the fools!!
Hope next year community will spend the money for the good purpose like school, Hospitals and any other activities where a man king will be benefited and the opportunist will not make fools to the donors.
Are Bohras fools
Re: Are Bohras fools
Hard facts.....!!!!
Generally bohras are fools or they like to that way..!!! they kind of like the atmosphere and the way of living.... They are paying and WISE are minting money.... The Dai is becoming richer and richer and with that more arrogant and more tyrant.....!!!!!! Nothing will improve untill we all wake up. These tamashas will continue as we all love this type of tamashas...... Dubai, coming year new place..... visit, shop have fun, yes womanize, drink ...... and if it is in some western country ..... do what u like in the name of Moharram and Matam and thats what Dai is preaching silently.
Generally bohras are fools or they like to that way..!!! they kind of like the atmosphere and the way of living.... They are paying and WISE are minting money.... The Dai is becoming richer and richer and with that more arrogant and more tyrant.....!!!!!! Nothing will improve untill we all wake up. These tamashas will continue as we all love this type of tamashas...... Dubai, coming year new place..... visit, shop have fun, yes womanize, drink ...... and if it is in some western country ..... do what u like in the name of Moharram and Matam and thats what Dai is preaching silently.
Re: Are Bohras fools
Bohra are fools but knowingly so - at least a majority of them. The remainder are just plain garden-variety fanatics who think the Dai is next best thing to God.
So why do they agree to be fooled, fobbed and fleeced by a coercive pseudo-religious cult called the kothar?
To answer that question, first we'll have to look at the Bohra characteristics shaped by the society and culture they live in.
We are a petit-bourgeois trading community and necessarily by nature in favour of the status quo. "Don't rock the boat" seems to be our dominant attitude. We are timid, docile, easily intimated by all kinds of authority (specially religious). We are socially conservative and politically more so. Religiously, we are thick. Content to repeating rituals, we neither care to understand 'true' Islam nor seek true spirituality. The products of jamia safia who go on to perpetuate and entrench this coercive cult are our sum total contribution to Islamic scholarship.
Given our tradesmen 'baniya' (an ethnic group of penny-pinching grocers in India) mentality, we invariably weigh everything we do along the profit-loss equation. Hanging in there with the Dai and his coercive cult is perceived to be profitable, it seems.
On the profits side:
a sense of belonging
an identity
social and quasi-religious purpose
freedom from thinking and worrying about fundamental issues: life, meaning, spirituality, religion
markazs. masjids etc. where they can gather and take comfort in their collective foolishness
social status, respect and power for the fat cats
(pls add more...)
On the losses side:
a constant drain on their pockets (which is okay for the fat cats. for the poor? who cares about them)
a complete lack of freedom of conscience
a complete lack of dignity
oppression and humiliation
status of slavery
(pls add more...)
In the Losses column, except for the money the bohras apparently do not care about the rest. Obviously, for those who can afford it, it is profitable to be 'fools'. That their devotion to the cult reduced them to being subhuman is immaterial to them. They are content with being part of the tamasha following their leader from one circus to the other. That such pomp and waste and conspicuous consumption goes against the very grain of Islamic principles never crosses their mind. Any serious concept of God or religion will have no place for such a cult.
To conclude, Bohras are fools but willingly so. Because they continue to remain 'unevolved' and unreconstructed morally, intellectually and spiritually. And they are a part of a cult which will never allow them to.
On the other hand, reformist talk about dignity, self-respect, accountability etc. which to a baniya mind is whole load of horseshit.
So why do they agree to be fooled, fobbed and fleeced by a coercive pseudo-religious cult called the kothar?
To answer that question, first we'll have to look at the Bohra characteristics shaped by the society and culture they live in.
We are a petit-bourgeois trading community and necessarily by nature in favour of the status quo. "Don't rock the boat" seems to be our dominant attitude. We are timid, docile, easily intimated by all kinds of authority (specially religious). We are socially conservative and politically more so. Religiously, we are thick. Content to repeating rituals, we neither care to understand 'true' Islam nor seek true spirituality. The products of jamia safia who go on to perpetuate and entrench this coercive cult are our sum total contribution to Islamic scholarship.
Given our tradesmen 'baniya' (an ethnic group of penny-pinching grocers in India) mentality, we invariably weigh everything we do along the profit-loss equation. Hanging in there with the Dai and his coercive cult is perceived to be profitable, it seems.
On the profits side:
a sense of belonging
an identity
social and quasi-religious purpose
freedom from thinking and worrying about fundamental issues: life, meaning, spirituality, religion
markazs. masjids etc. where they can gather and take comfort in their collective foolishness
social status, respect and power for the fat cats
(pls add more...)
On the losses side:
a constant drain on their pockets (which is okay for the fat cats. for the poor? who cares about them)
a complete lack of freedom of conscience
a complete lack of dignity
oppression and humiliation
status of slavery
(pls add more...)
In the Losses column, except for the money the bohras apparently do not care about the rest. Obviously, for those who can afford it, it is profitable to be 'fools'. That their devotion to the cult reduced them to being subhuman is immaterial to them. They are content with being part of the tamasha following their leader from one circus to the other. That such pomp and waste and conspicuous consumption goes against the very grain of Islamic principles never crosses their mind. Any serious concept of God or religion will have no place for such a cult.
To conclude, Bohras are fools but willingly so. Because they continue to remain 'unevolved' and unreconstructed morally, intellectually and spiritually. And they are a part of a cult which will never allow them to.
On the other hand, reformist talk about dignity, self-respect, accountability etc. which to a baniya mind is whole load of horseshit.
Re: Are Bohras fools
Very good Humsafar, very right....!!!
What else one could say... they are a part of the cult and more so willingly, so who can help the one who doesnot want the help. thwy all want to live in a Foll's Paradise, so be it. We, the reformists, inside or outside the community have to keep doing our work. People like me and there are many are a par to current community due to so many reasons though we donot want to be at all, but there are social, family and other pressures which are not easy to forego, but i for one avoid going one pretext or other, try not to follow what the so-called Dai says, pay as little as possible on nay ground - whenever i have to go, i just go for food..!!! (like 100% population..!!!) but slowly i talk, small things i say, i keep on telling other small things, the idea being, to make them THINK and THINK..!!!! Remember Revolution comes from Within, within one's own self, within one group, community or country. Nothing can be imposed. So ppl like me are trying slowly and gradually. In the end I would say - Nobody can stop an IDEA whose time has come..!!
Good bless us all reformists and all true Muslim and all human race and bring disgrace to those whoe try to manupilate other human beings. Ameen
What else one could say... they are a part of the cult and more so willingly, so who can help the one who doesnot want the help. thwy all want to live in a Foll's Paradise, so be it. We, the reformists, inside or outside the community have to keep doing our work. People like me and there are many are a par to current community due to so many reasons though we donot want to be at all, but there are social, family and other pressures which are not easy to forego, but i for one avoid going one pretext or other, try not to follow what the so-called Dai says, pay as little as possible on nay ground - whenever i have to go, i just go for food..!!! (like 100% population..!!!) but slowly i talk, small things i say, i keep on telling other small things, the idea being, to make them THINK and THINK..!!!! Remember Revolution comes from Within, within one's own self, within one group, community or country. Nothing can be imposed. So ppl like me are trying slowly and gradually. In the end I would say - Nobody can stop an IDEA whose time has come..!!
Good bless us all reformists and all true Muslim and all human race and bring disgrace to those whoe try to manupilate other human beings. Ameen
Re: Are Bohras fools
Mal; Yes there has to be a reform from withen.
First of all you must give the ordinary bohra a chance to think for himself. This is next to imposible because of the very frequent visits to the jamaat khana for food for any drummed up ocxcasion. Such brain washing occupies the bohra mind and refrains it to think other wise. Some how the message has to be sent"some live to eat and some eat to live" And this is next to impossible because they all want free food or put it another way they want their money's worth for having paid all the long list of wajebaats, salams etc.
First of all you must give the ordinary bohra a chance to think for himself. This is next to imposible because of the very frequent visits to the jamaat khana for food for any drummed up ocxcasion. Such brain washing occupies the bohra mind and refrains it to think other wise. Some how the message has to be sent"some live to eat and some eat to live" And this is next to impossible because they all want free food or put it another way they want their money's worth for having paid all the long list of wajebaats, salams etc.
Re: Are Bohras fools
Mal,
Working from within is an important part of the movement. What you're doing is great - planting the seeds of doubt is just the beginning.
To bring about a real change, bohras will have to do some serious organising. Like-minded bohras should get together, strategize, ask uncomfortable questions, and challenge the local grandee/amil on minor things first and then progress to more important issues.
This pattern must be repeated in every jammat, unless a critical mass of people start challenging the authorities very little is going to changes.
But creating doubt and provoking people to talk is a good beginning. Keep it up.
Working from within is an important part of the movement. What you're doing is great - planting the seeds of doubt is just the beginning.
To bring about a real change, bohras will have to do some serious organising. Like-minded bohras should get together, strategize, ask uncomfortable questions, and challenge the local grandee/amil on minor things first and then progress to more important issues.
This pattern must be repeated in every jammat, unless a critical mass of people start challenging the authorities very little is going to changes.
But creating doubt and provoking people to talk is a good beginning. Keep it up.
-
khan19922001
- Posts: 153
- Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 5:01 am
Re: Are Bohras fools
Br. Humsafar
I read your excellent analysis of our community. I agree with your comments. I have given up hope and have decided to move out of the community. I have joined the mainstream muslims as I find their faiths and beliefs much more logical. Isalm is a very simple religion and we have made it a complicted mess of daes, urs,jaman,etc etc.
I know that I will face huge problems when I go home from my family members and the rest of the community. I only hope that God gives me the courage to withstand the onslaught.
Regards
I read your excellent analysis of our community. I agree with your comments. I have given up hope and have decided to move out of the community. I have joined the mainstream muslims as I find their faiths and beliefs much more logical. Isalm is a very simple religion and we have made it a complicted mess of daes, urs,jaman,etc etc.
I know that I will face huge problems when I go home from my family members and the rest of the community. I only hope that God gives me the courage to withstand the onslaught.
Regards