Danish,
"The name of Muhammad and Ali added or joined up with GOD is nowhere to be seen in the Quran"
--This is correct and is what every muslim believes...Allah has NO partner. But he does have representatives on this earth as example and guides to practice His beliefs. This is the prominance of Muhammad and Ali as examples and guides..as was Moses, Jesus, Abraham, etc. This is what IS recorded in the Quran. You seem to have a hard time grasping this FACT.
"I pray in a mosque where submitters (Muslims in Arabic)"
--two key things here. 1.) how can you pray in a mosque...when the Quran dedicates no collated form of prayer???? (Remember your web site also combined various ayats to come to a conclusion...you said that's not allowed)
2.) Muslims are submitters....Allah requires us to be mumin (believers).
"No hadiths and no mullahs are to be found."
---this is cute..and you don't even realize how idiotic it is. The only authorities on the Quran and Islam Allah allows is Muhammad and those of knowledge. You don't regard hadith...so Muhammad is counted out. Those of knowledge have no knowledge outside of their own interpretation...which isn't allowed.
How does one explain verses of the Quran to you? Based on what authority? What knowledge? Is it their own interpretation? Is that allowed? According to what authority is it allowed?
Please regard these questions.
The submitters
Re: The submitters
Qiyam quotes on 5:28:2003
"WAKE-UP AND SMELL THE WORLD"
GOD, there is no other god but GOD. HE has no partners and none equals HIM. Be HE Glorified.
Qiyam quotes on 5:29:2003"...who confess that one must proclaim Muhammad's name with GOD's name (shias even add Ali's name thereafter) in order to become a Muslim"
--Muslim take Muhammad as the messenger of Allah, Ali as vice grent of Allah. These have NO part of Allah.
"This is absolutely absurd, ridiculous and has no basis whatsoever."
--It is written in the Quran...how can you say such ignorant statement.
Qiyam becomes an automatic LIAR on his own accord and being judgmental about every issue raised to defend his idiotic beliefs, he continues to BOAST AROUND without proper knowledge. Because of Qiyam’s poor understanding and continued foolishness, there is no point of going any further. Most of what he argues about has been previously dealt with in detail."The name of Muhammad and Ali added or joined up with GOD is nowhere to be seen in the Quran"
--This is correct and is what every muslim believes
"WAKE-UP AND SMELL THE WORLD"
GOD, there is no other god but GOD. HE has no partners and none equals HIM. Be HE Glorified.
Re: The submitters
Danish:
Qiyam indeed has his ways but this time I think he said the right things. He asked you questions why don't you answer him instead of blaming him of this or that.
Secondly tell me how you pray and how many times a day you pray and who taught you the method of prayer. Yes, I have seen your web sites and please do not give me a link. I need a simple plain answer
Dilber
Qiyam indeed has his ways but this time I think he said the right things. He asked you questions why don't you answer him instead of blaming him of this or that.
Secondly tell me how you pray and how many times a day you pray and who taught you the method of prayer. Yes, I have seen your web sites and please do not give me a link. I need a simple plain answer
Dilber
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: The submitters
.
Br. Dilber
AS
Hell will freeze before Danish will answer your question. I have asked him that before. He will dance around it.
Wasalaam
.
Br. Dilber
AS
Hell will freeze before Danish will answer your question. I have asked him that before. He will dance around it.
Wasalaam
.
Re: The submitters
Dilber,
If Qiyam indeed has his ways then be it. It clearly shows that he and many of you are simply not focused. I base my views and extract relevant information solely from Quran and HIS infallible creations, nothing else, period. I don't need to sweat myself repetitiously to answer FOOLISH QUESTIONS. Bombarding anyone with inumerous questions requires time and no easy ways. I'm repeating this for the third time, the answers that you guys are looking for are already detailed on this forum. All one has to do is to understand them for sometimes there are no simple answers.
Few examples of the well-known Quranic Arabic language translated into plain simple English:
1. Allahu Akbar means: GOD is great.
2. Bismillah Ar-Rahman Ar-Raheem means: In the name of GOD, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
3. La Illaha Illallah means: No other god but GOD.
4. Assalaamu Alaikum means: Peace be upon you.
5. Subhaana Rabbiyal Azeem means: Glory be to GOD, the Great.
Now, is it difficult for any Arabic speaking individual to translate the Quranic words above? I can speak and understand 3 different languages fluently (English, Urdu and Gujrati). If someone told me anything in Urdu, do you think I won't be able to translate it in English or Gujrati and vice-versa, in order for the other person to understand its message, unless otherwise I intentionally lie and twist the words so as to give a different message altogether.
The very first verse of the first Surah in Quran reads:
Alhamdu Lillahi Rabbil Aalameen. Obviously there are many English words one chooses to demonstrate his/her ability to translate it in accordance with ones vocabularic intelligence, whether in simple English or arduous one, the basis of, and the message portrayed, is the same. Are you getting my point so far? Lets translate the above in two ways:
1. Praise be to GOD, Lord of the universe.
2. Glory be to GOD, King of the worlds.
Thus, it depends upon person to person, how he/she understands the words/sentences/paragraphs as long as the MESSAGE remains the same. I wonder if you've seen the movie called THE MESSAGE. Also, must see the newly released American movie called MATRIX RELOADED. The movie contains some great concepts in order to understand ones creation and why we are here on earth and a lot more.
GOD, there is no other god but GOD. HE has no partners and none equals HIM. Be HE Glorified.
If Qiyam indeed has his ways then be it. It clearly shows that he and many of you are simply not focused. I base my views and extract relevant information solely from Quran and HIS infallible creations, nothing else, period. I don't need to sweat myself repetitiously to answer FOOLISH QUESTIONS. Bombarding anyone with inumerous questions requires time and no easy ways. I'm repeating this for the third time, the answers that you guys are looking for are already detailed on this forum. All one has to do is to understand them for sometimes there are no simple answers.
If Dais and Syedenas and Bhaisahebs and Aamils and Sheikhs and Imaams and Jamiatus Saifia's graduate students world over, literally thousands of them can read, study, understand and translate the straightforward Arabic language Quran in various languages, what makes you think that one cannot read, study, understand and translate the very translations. I am not even mentioning other muslim sects all over the world which would otherwise comprise of millions who can read, study and understand the Quran. What about the non-Muslims who are Arabic speaking individuals and the list goes on? Sadly enough, millions have neglected the Quran by upholding ahadiths and sadly enough, millions are simply lazy to pick up the Quran to read, study and understand and yet they argue and debate over it zealously and arrogantly to support and defend their Mullahs and fallible stories they come up with. What a grave mistake?How does one explain verses of the Quran to you? Based on what authority? What knowledge? Is it their own interpretation? Is that allowed? According to what authority is it allowed?
Few examples of the well-known Quranic Arabic language translated into plain simple English:
1. Allahu Akbar means: GOD is great.
2. Bismillah Ar-Rahman Ar-Raheem means: In the name of GOD, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
3. La Illaha Illallah means: No other god but GOD.
4. Assalaamu Alaikum means: Peace be upon you.
5. Subhaana Rabbiyal Azeem means: Glory be to GOD, the Great.
Now, is it difficult for any Arabic speaking individual to translate the Quranic words above? I can speak and understand 3 different languages fluently (English, Urdu and Gujrati). If someone told me anything in Urdu, do you think I won't be able to translate it in English or Gujrati and vice-versa, in order for the other person to understand its message, unless otherwise I intentionally lie and twist the words so as to give a different message altogether.
The very first verse of the first Surah in Quran reads:
Alhamdu Lillahi Rabbil Aalameen. Obviously there are many English words one chooses to demonstrate his/her ability to translate it in accordance with ones vocabularic intelligence, whether in simple English or arduous one, the basis of, and the message portrayed, is the same. Are you getting my point so far? Lets translate the above in two ways:
1. Praise be to GOD, Lord of the universe.
2. Glory be to GOD, King of the worlds.
Thus, it depends upon person to person, how he/she understands the words/sentences/paragraphs as long as the MESSAGE remains the same. I wonder if you've seen the movie called THE MESSAGE. Also, must see the newly released American movie called MATRIX RELOADED. The movie contains some great concepts in order to understand ones creation and why we are here on earth and a lot more.
GOD, there is no other god but GOD. HE has no partners and none equals HIM. Be HE Glorified.
Re: The submitters
Danish,
Do you actually think about what you write?
"If Dais and Syedenas and Bhaisahebs and Aamils and Sheikhs and Imaams and Jamiatus Saifia's graduate students.."
--They refer to the Quran, hadiths, etc. to support and draw from. Their opinions are ONLY regarded because they source their opinions from Quran and hadiths of the Prophet and Imams.
"Now, is it difficult for any Arabic speaking individual to translate the Quranic words above?"
--If you knew arabic, and knew arabs, you would know arabs fear translating the Quran because it is far more complex arabic then you think or portray it to be. Firstly, the Quran is fusaha arabic...which a majority of arabs don't speak. Secondly, the Quran is metaphor/poetic/canonic all at the same time. It is also a historical reference. The Quran is not just simple plain words that were collated 1400 years ago.
You insinuated you could tranlate urdu to english to gujarati with little difficulty. Maybe for a newspaper...how about urdu poetry, or gujarati geets or anglo-saxon english poetry (which is the equivalent of fusaha arabic in the Quran).
"it depends upon person to person, how he/she understands the words/sentences/paragraphs"
--This is exactly the point...the level of understanding. You've previously quoted several passage from the Quran which were very much out of context to prove an argument. How could one correctly learn Islam or the Quran from you...when you don't understand the verses yourself???
So in this case...the message is very much altered and not the SAME.
Do you actually think about what you write?
"If Dais and Syedenas and Bhaisahebs and Aamils and Sheikhs and Imaams and Jamiatus Saifia's graduate students.."
--They refer to the Quran, hadiths, etc. to support and draw from. Their opinions are ONLY regarded because they source their opinions from Quran and hadiths of the Prophet and Imams.
"Now, is it difficult for any Arabic speaking individual to translate the Quranic words above?"
--If you knew arabic, and knew arabs, you would know arabs fear translating the Quran because it is far more complex arabic then you think or portray it to be. Firstly, the Quran is fusaha arabic...which a majority of arabs don't speak. Secondly, the Quran is metaphor/poetic/canonic all at the same time. It is also a historical reference. The Quran is not just simple plain words that were collated 1400 years ago.
You insinuated you could tranlate urdu to english to gujarati with little difficulty. Maybe for a newspaper...how about urdu poetry, or gujarati geets or anglo-saxon english poetry (which is the equivalent of fusaha arabic in the Quran).
"it depends upon person to person, how he/she understands the words/sentences/paragraphs"
--This is exactly the point...the level of understanding. You've previously quoted several passage from the Quran which were very much out of context to prove an argument. How could one correctly learn Islam or the Quran from you...when you don't understand the verses yourself???
So in this case...the message is very much altered and not the SAME.
Re: The submitters
Quresh,
Nothing that you've said make sense because you and your so-called Immans are basing, predicting and guessing everything out of hadiths, the satanic innovations that contain deception, conjecture, falsehood and impurities, NOT WRITTEN BY ANY PROPHETS BUT BY SOME INDIGENTS AND UNSCRUPULOUS SCHOLARS such as Bhukari, Saleh, Muslim, Dawood, etc., who simply took the words of thousands of people whom they call companions of prophets (not even sure about that) after over 200 years of prophet Muhammad's death, compiled and wrote them down one by one to form volumes and tons of books called ahadiths and termed them "authentic" or "sunnah of prophet Muhammad" and also "sunnah of ahle bait" AGAINST THE COMMANDS OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD HIMSELF AND AGAINST THE COMMANDS OF THE QURAN ITSELF. Man, I can't even go any further. This is so full of shame and disgrace, degrading and disrespecting not only Muhammad and his ahle bait, but above all GOD and HIS holy book. Inspite of all this, you have the nerve to obey and uphold such satanic innovations to fight GOD and HIS revelations. You must be out of your mind. Wake-up man, wake-up!!!
Read the posts on hadiths and sunnah on this forum.
GOD, there is no god but GOD. HE has no partners and none equals HIM. Be HE Glorified.
Nothing that you've said make sense because you and your so-called Immans are basing, predicting and guessing everything out of hadiths, the satanic innovations that contain deception, conjecture, falsehood and impurities, NOT WRITTEN BY ANY PROPHETS BUT BY SOME INDIGENTS AND UNSCRUPULOUS SCHOLARS such as Bhukari, Saleh, Muslim, Dawood, etc., who simply took the words of thousands of people whom they call companions of prophets (not even sure about that) after over 200 years of prophet Muhammad's death, compiled and wrote them down one by one to form volumes and tons of books called ahadiths and termed them "authentic" or "sunnah of prophet Muhammad" and also "sunnah of ahle bait" AGAINST THE COMMANDS OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD HIMSELF AND AGAINST THE COMMANDS OF THE QURAN ITSELF. Man, I can't even go any further. This is so full of shame and disgrace, degrading and disrespecting not only Muhammad and his ahle bait, but above all GOD and HIS holy book. Inspite of all this, you have the nerve to obey and uphold such satanic innovations to fight GOD and HIS revelations. You must be out of your mind. Wake-up man, wake-up!!!
Read the posts on hadiths and sunnah on this forum.
GOD, there is no god but GOD. HE has no partners and none equals HIM. Be HE Glorified.
Re: The submitters
Danish,
firstly, shiah refer to those book recorded into writing in the lifetime of the Imams. Secondly, no hadith is regarded if it goes against the Quran in any form, for the Quran is the first and last authority on any topic. But as we've already discussed...the Quran doesn't contain every detail of all the requirement it presents for the believer...it wasn't meant to...thus the reason for prophets and guides on this earth by Allah.
You have yet to answer my questions or respond to my comments of how one establishs the authority and knowledge to teach from the Quran.
firstly, shiah refer to those book recorded into writing in the lifetime of the Imams. Secondly, no hadith is regarded if it goes against the Quran in any form, for the Quran is the first and last authority on any topic. But as we've already discussed...the Quran doesn't contain every detail of all the requirement it presents for the believer...it wasn't meant to...thus the reason for prophets and guides on this earth by Allah.
You have yet to answer my questions or respond to my comments of how one establishs the authority and knowledge to teach from the Quran.
Re: The submitters
Qiyam,
Don't you have any truth left to talk about rather than misleading not only others but yourself as well.
You beleive and admit that the Quran is the FIRST and the LAST, then there should be no IFS AND BUTS. If prophet Muhammad was the last prophet, then there lies no IFS AND BUTS. If GOD is the ONLY ONE and HE has no partners and none equals HIM, then there lies no IFS AND BUTS.
It is this IFS AND BUTS that you and others are after that you support and uphold that makes you all disbelievers in GOD, Quran and Muhammad.
Don't you have any truth left to talk about rather than misleading not only others but yourself as well.
You beleive and admit that the Quran is the FIRST and the LAST, then there should be no IFS AND BUTS. If prophet Muhammad was the last prophet, then there lies no IFS AND BUTS. If GOD is the ONLY ONE and HE has no partners and none equals HIM, then there lies no IFS AND BUTS.
It is this IFS AND BUTS that you and others are after that you support and uphold that makes you all disbelievers in GOD, Quran and Muhammad.
Re: The submitters
Br. Muslim first: Assalamu Alaikum wr wb: How correct you are. I ask this man Danish a very simple question and he replies
------------------------------------
Dilber,
I base my views and extract relevant information solely from Quran and HIS infallible creations, nothing else, period. I don't need to sweat myself repetitiously to answer FOOLISH QUESTIONS. Bombarding anyone with inumerous questions requires time and no easy ways
---------------------
He does not tell me the method of his prayer and who taught him how to pray and the number of times he prays. This to him is FOOLISH.
Indeed that pharmacist from Egypt taught him a few things but not everything
You very rightly said hell will freeze before he ACTUALLY responds. I think I am going to ignore him, we have known "wise men" like him before.
Dilber
------------------------------------
Dilber,
I base my views and extract relevant information solely from Quran and HIS infallible creations, nothing else, period. I don't need to sweat myself repetitiously to answer FOOLISH QUESTIONS. Bombarding anyone with inumerous questions requires time and no easy ways
---------------------
He does not tell me the method of his prayer and who taught him how to pray and the number of times he prays. This to him is FOOLISH.
Indeed that pharmacist from Egypt taught him a few things but not everything
You very rightly said hell will freeze before he ACTUALLY responds. I think I am going to ignore him, we have known "wise men" like him before.
Dilber
Re: The submitters
Dilber,
FOOLISH questions, specially when repeated again and again are for people who posses hadithic brains, are lazy to "look" and have difficulty in understanding for themselves when the answers are already given. How stupid can you be?He does not tell me the method of his prayer and who taught him how to pray and the number of times he prays. This to him is FOOLISH.
INDEED!!!Indeed that pharmacist from Egypt taught him a few things but not everything
I am glad that at least both of you are familiar with Hell. "Now try crossing over on the other side for a change", if you know what that means.You very rightly said hell will freeze before he ACTUALLY responds.
I am pleased to know that you are begining to "think". I will at least stop sweating for now...break time.I think I am going to ignore him, we have known "wise men" like him before.
Re: The submitters
Dilber,
FOOLISH questions, specially when repeated again and again are for people who posses hadithic brains, are lazy to "look" and have difficulty in understanding for themselves when the answers are already given. How stupid can you be?He does not tell me the method of his prayer and who taught him how to pray and the number of times he prays. This to him is FOOLISH.
INDEED! He did a marvelous job. And I "picked up the pieces", by GOD's grace and mercy. Alhamdu-Lillah.Indeed that pharmacist from Egypt taught him a few things but not everything
I am glad that at least both of you are familiar with Hell. "Now try crossing over on the other side for a change", if you know what that means.You very rightly said hell will freeze before he ACTUALLY responds.
I am pleased to know that you are begining to "think". I will at least stop sweating for now.....break time.I think I am going to ignore him, we have known "wise men" like him before.
Re: The submitters
Danish,
are you that blind? No one ever denied the Quran is the first and last. But the thing you keep falling to admit is that the Quran was brought AND TAUGHT by Muhammad and used Muhammad as the teacher of the things it says. Allah says in the Quran to fast...Muhammad taught us to fast (NOT THE QURAN). Allah says in the Quran to pray...Muhammad teached us to pray (NOT THE QURAN).
"FOOLISH questions, specially when repeated again and again are for people who posses hadithic brains, are lazy to "look" and have difficulty in understanding for themselves when the answers are already given. How stupid can you be?"
---You have not answered this question at all. You reference a web site that combined some ayats together to form a method of things....WHICH ACCORDING TO YOUR THEORY AGAINST US..IS NOT ALLOWED. According to you, man (scholar or otherwise) cannot guide you....though you attend lectures on friday and sunday by a man's opinion of what is in the Quran. You said only the Quran can teach us...a theory you have yet to prove. We say only the Quran and sunnah of the ahlul bayt can teach us.
are you that blind? No one ever denied the Quran is the first and last. But the thing you keep falling to admit is that the Quran was brought AND TAUGHT by Muhammad and used Muhammad as the teacher of the things it says. Allah says in the Quran to fast...Muhammad taught us to fast (NOT THE QURAN). Allah says in the Quran to pray...Muhammad teached us to pray (NOT THE QURAN).
"FOOLISH questions, specially when repeated again and again are for people who posses hadithic brains, are lazy to "look" and have difficulty in understanding for themselves when the answers are already given. How stupid can you be?"
---You have not answered this question at all. You reference a web site that combined some ayats together to form a method of things....WHICH ACCORDING TO YOUR THEORY AGAINST US..IS NOT ALLOWED. According to you, man (scholar or otherwise) cannot guide you....though you attend lectures on friday and sunday by a man's opinion of what is in the Quran. You said only the Quran can teach us...a theory you have yet to prove. We say only the Quran and sunnah of the ahlul bayt can teach us.
Re: The submitters
Qiyam,
Muhammad is DEAD, can't you SEE.
Quran is ALIVE, are you BLIND.
Muhammad is DEAD, can't you SEE.
Quran is ALIVE, are you BLIND.
Re: The submitters
Danish,
Yes Muhammad is dead but his recorded life is preserved...and the Quran is alive but silent.
So how do pray the salat??? How do you fast???
You will not find the answers to these questions in any collated form or completely in the Quran.
Yes Muhammad is dead but his recorded life is preserved...and the Quran is alive but silent.
So how do pray the salat??? How do you fast???
You will not find the answers to these questions in any collated form or completely in the Quran.
Re: The submitters
Qiyam,
The ONLY scripture that is preserved until today is nothing but the Quran in its pristine condition (GOD's Words). Muhammad's recorded life, hadiths books are not called preservations, but satanic innovations written by several people from the mouths of several hundred people after over 150-200 years of Muhammad's death.Yes Muhammad is dead but his recorded life is preserved...and the Quran is alive but silent.
Re: The submitters
Qiyam,
Muhammad was commanded to obey and convey the Quran while the people of their time were told to obey Muhammad for what he preached. Muhammad died and so did his people, but what he was commanded to preach remained intact and preserved until today. This is exactly what I am doing, obeying the Quran that Muhammad once preached, by GOD's command.
I have no intentions of relying on guessworks, conjecture, abuse, questionable credibility of Muhammad and ahle bait's characters and personal lifes, just because some people said so and lied about them after about 150 years of his death. Keep these satanic innovations to yourself if that is what you have decided to uphold.You will not find the answers to these questions in any collated form or completely in the Quran.
Muhammad was commanded to obey and convey the Quran while the people of their time were told to obey Muhammad for what he preached. Muhammad died and so did his people, but what he was commanded to preach remained intact and preserved until today. This is exactly what I am doing, obeying the Quran that Muhammad once preached, by GOD's command.
Re: The submitters
Danish,
You have a right to believe as you do, but again....please answer the questions:
So how do pray the salat??? How do you fast???
You will not find the answers to these questions in any collated form or completely in the Quran.
You have a right to believe as you do, but again....please answer the questions:
So how do pray the salat??? How do you fast???
You will not find the answers to these questions in any collated form or completely in the Quran.
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: The submitters
.
Br. qiyam
You are right. Quran does not describe procedure of Salah.
Number of Rakah, What to recite etc. etc. are part of Sunnah of our Prophet SAW.
There is a difference in Sunnah and Hadith. Sunnah is literally trodden path.
Gibreal AS taught Rasool SAW how to perform SAlah. Prophet taught the Sahab's and this knowledge was transferred to following generations.
First Scholar to codify this knowlege was Imaam Abu Hanifa who studied under 2 Tabieen. He also had had good fortune of meeting Anas RA who was Sahabi of Rasool SAW.
So it is not woth arguing with a follower of Egyptian Pharmacist who claims to be messenger of Allah.
Wasalaam
.
Br. qiyam
You are right. Quran does not describe procedure of Salah.
Number of Rakah, What to recite etc. etc. are part of Sunnah of our Prophet SAW.
There is a difference in Sunnah and Hadith. Sunnah is literally trodden path.
Gibreal AS taught Rasool SAW how to perform SAlah. Prophet taught the Sahab's and this knowledge was transferred to following generations.
First Scholar to codify this knowlege was Imaam Abu Hanifa who studied under 2 Tabieen. He also had had good fortune of meeting Anas RA who was Sahabi of Rasool SAW.
So it is not woth arguing with a follower of Egyptian Pharmacist who claims to be messenger of Allah.
Wasalaam
.
Re: The submitters
Remeber, Muhammad conveyed GOD's message, the only message and nothing but the message to his people. That is all he was commanded to do and nothing else. He had nothing else with him to convey. Some listened to him while others ignored him. Muhammad never forced anyone to obey him against GOD's will as it is pretty clear from Quranic verse. Those among his people who were faithful to him and believed in what he had to say, became the true believers while the rest became despondents, disbelievers. This information is given in the Quran.
Since the hadith books came after 150-200 years, this clearly shows that it must have been a second, third or even a fourth generation of people who never saw or knew Muhammad. These same people were telling stories to Bukhari, Malik, etc. about Muhammad and his family. One can barely remember the exact words of what your own father said a week ago, how is it possible to remember the exact words of your great great grandfather. Besides, out of several hundred people, how does one know for sure if they are telling the truth. This is truely stupendous. It sounds so creepy to even think about it, let alone to obey and uphold such vain talks.
Finally, Quran is absolutely clear in its command, not to follow falsehood, guessworks and/or any other sources of law and yet people do. How can anyone trust a person who does not obey GOD's command and yet they think they are better guided by some leaders who themselves do not follow GOD's commands and refrain others from doing so?
[2:8] Then there are those who say, "We believe in GOD and the Last Day", while they are not believers.
[2:9] In trying to deceive GOD and those who believe, they only deceive themselves without perceiving.
[2:10] In their minds there is a disease. Consequently, GOD augments their disease. They have incurred a painful retribution for their lying.
[2:11] When they are told, "Do not commit evil", they say, "But we are righteous".
[2:12] In fact, they are evildoers, but they do not perceive.
[2:13] When they are told, "Believe like the people who believed", they say, "Shall we believe like the fools who believed?" In fact, it is they who are fools, but they do not know.
[2:14] When they meet the believers, they say, "We believe", but when alone with their devils, they say, "We are with you; we were only mocking".
[2:15] GOD mocks them, and leads them on in their transgressions, blundering.
[2:16] It is they who bought the straying, at the expense of guidance. Such trade never prospers, nor do they receive any guidance.
[2:17] Their example is like those who start a fire, then, as it begins to shed light around them, GOD takes away their light, leaving them in darkness, unable to see.
[2:18] Deaf, dumb, and blind; they fail to return.
[9:31] They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords, instead of GOD. Others deified the Messiah, son of Mary. They were all commanded to worship only one god. There is no god except He. Be He glorified, high above having any partners.
[9:32] They want to put out GOD's light with their mouths, but GOD insists upon perfecting His light, in spite of the disbelievers.
[9:34] O you who believe, many religious leaders and preachers take the people's money illicitly, and repel from the path of GOD. Those who hoard the gold and silver, and do not spend them in the cause of GOD, promise them a painful retribution.
[9:35] The day will come when their gold and silver will be heated in the fire of Hell, then used to burn their foreheads, their sides, and their backs: "This is what you hoarded for yourselves, so taste what you have hoarded."
GOD, there is no other god but GOD. HE has no partners and none equals HIM. Be HE Glorified.
Since the hadith books came after 150-200 years, this clearly shows that it must have been a second, third or even a fourth generation of people who never saw or knew Muhammad. These same people were telling stories to Bukhari, Malik, etc. about Muhammad and his family. One can barely remember the exact words of what your own father said a week ago, how is it possible to remember the exact words of your great great grandfather. Besides, out of several hundred people, how does one know for sure if they are telling the truth. This is truely stupendous. It sounds so creepy to even think about it, let alone to obey and uphold such vain talks.
Finally, Quran is absolutely clear in its command, not to follow falsehood, guessworks and/or any other sources of law and yet people do. How can anyone trust a person who does not obey GOD's command and yet they think they are better guided by some leaders who themselves do not follow GOD's commands and refrain others from doing so?
[2:8] Then there are those who say, "We believe in GOD and the Last Day", while they are not believers.
[2:9] In trying to deceive GOD and those who believe, they only deceive themselves without perceiving.
[2:10] In their minds there is a disease. Consequently, GOD augments their disease. They have incurred a painful retribution for their lying.
[2:11] When they are told, "Do not commit evil", they say, "But we are righteous".
[2:12] In fact, they are evildoers, but they do not perceive.
[2:13] When they are told, "Believe like the people who believed", they say, "Shall we believe like the fools who believed?" In fact, it is they who are fools, but they do not know.
[2:14] When they meet the believers, they say, "We believe", but when alone with their devils, they say, "We are with you; we were only mocking".
[2:15] GOD mocks them, and leads them on in their transgressions, blundering.
[2:16] It is they who bought the straying, at the expense of guidance. Such trade never prospers, nor do they receive any guidance.
[2:17] Their example is like those who start a fire, then, as it begins to shed light around them, GOD takes away their light, leaving them in darkness, unable to see.
[2:18] Deaf, dumb, and blind; they fail to return.
[9:31] They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords, instead of GOD. Others deified the Messiah, son of Mary. They were all commanded to worship only one god. There is no god except He. Be He glorified, high above having any partners.
[9:32] They want to put out GOD's light with their mouths, but GOD insists upon perfecting His light, in spite of the disbelievers.
[9:34] O you who believe, many religious leaders and preachers take the people's money illicitly, and repel from the path of GOD. Those who hoard the gold and silver, and do not spend them in the cause of GOD, promise them a painful retribution.
[9:35] The day will come when their gold and silver will be heated in the fire of Hell, then used to burn their foreheads, their sides, and their backs: "This is what you hoarded for yourselves, so taste what you have hoarded."
GOD, there is no other god but GOD. HE has no partners and none equals HIM. Be HE Glorified.
Re: The submitters
Qiyam and Muslim First and the like,
If the Quran commanded you NOT to believe in any other hadiths, would you disobey GOD's direct order and continue to believe in them?
If the Quran commanded you NOT to believe in any other hadiths, would you disobey GOD's direct order and continue to believe in them?
Re: The submitters
Danish,
"Remeber, Muhammad conveyed GOD's message, the only message and nothing but the message to his people."
--This is partially correct. God's message was both the Quran and actions of the Prophet...which is only per the revealation of Allah. The Quran says to obey the Prophet and his sunnah.
"He had nothing else with him to convey."
--Yes, he conveyed both the Quran and the actions to go along with the Quran...such as formal actions of salat, fasting, etc. This was also God's message.
"Those among his people who were faithful to him and believed in what he had to say, became the true believers while the rest became despondents, disbelievers. This information is given in the Quran."
--Yes, those that listened TO HIM and follow his sunnah were of the true believers as the Quran states. Allah says the true believer is the one that follows His book and his messenger's sunnah. NOT HIS BOOK AND WHAT YOU THINK HIS BOOK SAYS.
If your problem is with the hadith books...shiah follow those books written in the time of the people who recorded them then you know very little about arabian culture. Arabs were orators and memorizers of the greatest extent. It is because of these memorizers that the Quran was recorded on to paper.
"Remeber, Muhammad conveyed GOD's message, the only message and nothing but the message to his people."
--This is partially correct. God's message was both the Quran and actions of the Prophet...which is only per the revealation of Allah. The Quran says to obey the Prophet and his sunnah.
"He had nothing else with him to convey."
--Yes, he conveyed both the Quran and the actions to go along with the Quran...such as formal actions of salat, fasting, etc. This was also God's message.
"Those among his people who were faithful to him and believed in what he had to say, became the true believers while the rest became despondents, disbelievers. This information is given in the Quran."
--Yes, those that listened TO HIM and follow his sunnah were of the true believers as the Quran states. Allah says the true believer is the one that follows His book and his messenger's sunnah. NOT HIS BOOK AND WHAT YOU THINK HIS BOOK SAYS.
If your problem is with the hadith books...shiah follow those books written in the time of the people who recorded them then you know very little about arabian culture. Arabs were orators and memorizers of the greatest extent. It is because of these memorizers that the Quran was recorded on to paper.
Re: The submitters
Qiyam,
While taking into consideration that the hadiths were compiled many many years (150-200) after the compilation of the Quran, the following site might give you some insights of the earliest Quranic manuscripts:
http://faculty.washington.edu/wheelerb/ ... index.html
Also check:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/think786/R ... hought.htm
As I first predicted that you are truely very childish and ignorant about a lot of things, including the so-called hadith and sunnah. I am not at all interested in those satanic innovations and that's why you see me talk about GOD Alone and Quran Alone (in other words, to obey GOD and to follow Muhammad).
The Quran is fully correct and can never be partially correct. The actions of the prophet came out of the Quran and thus one must follow Muhammad's sunnah which is to obey the Quran, the only Quran and nothing but the Quran.--This is partially correct. God's message was both the Quran and actions of the Prophet...which is only per the revealation of Allah. The Quran says to obey the Prophet and his sunnah.
Very true. The actions speaks for itself as commanded in the Quran. That's why is Quran Alone.--Yes, he conveyed both the Quran and the actions to go along with the Quran...such as formal actions of salat, fasting, etc. This was also God's message.
Muhammad's sunnah IS the actions as commanded in the Quran. And that is what we read today, the Quran and nothing else.--Yes, those that listened TO HIM and follow his sunnah were of the true believers as the Quran states. Allah says the true believer is the one that follows His book and his messenger's sunnah. NOT HIS BOOK AND WHAT YOU THINK HIS BOOK SAYS.
Memorization was partially taken into account for the compilation of the Quran, not the hadiths. Other methods of compilation of the Quran were collected from parchments, animals skins, wood, fragments, etc.If your problem is with the hadith books...shiah follow those books written in the time of the people who recorded them then you know very little about arabian culture. Arabs were orators and memorizers of the greatest extent. It is because of these memorizers that the Quran was recorded on to paper.
While taking into consideration that the hadiths were compiled many many years (150-200) after the compilation of the Quran, the following site might give you some insights of the earliest Quranic manuscripts:
http://faculty.washington.edu/wheelerb/ ... index.html
Also check:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/think786/R ... hought.htm
As I first predicted that you are truely very childish and ignorant about a lot of things, including the so-called hadith and sunnah. I am not at all interested in those satanic innovations and that's why you see me talk about GOD Alone and Quran Alone (in other words, to obey GOD and to follow Muhammad).
Re: The submitters
We are wasting time with this foolish man who ironically calls himself Danish.
He refutes "ALL SOURCES EXCEPT QURAN" and yet INSISTS on FOLLOWING something taught by OTHERS.
The one who TAUGHT him this rubbish was sent flying to hell in 1990. But for Rashad Laeen he wouldn't be talking this nonsense yet he insists everyone learn on his own. There will then be a trillion ways of offering the Salah alone.
Pease brothers ignore this man, lhe has already found his own hell.
Dilber
He refutes "ALL SOURCES EXCEPT QURAN" and yet INSISTS on FOLLOWING something taught by OTHERS.
The one who TAUGHT him this rubbish was sent flying to hell in 1990. But for Rashad Laeen he wouldn't be talking this nonsense yet he insists everyone learn on his own. There will then be a trillion ways of offering the Salah alone.
Pease brothers ignore this man, lhe has already found his own hell.
Dilber
Re: The submitters
Dilber,
Are you really wasting time? You seem to to be sneaking in all along. By the way, just like you call yourself Dilber, I call myself Danish. The main difference is that your name barks with a ber,ber,ber.. while mine hushes you up with a ish,ish,ish...!!!We are wasting time with this foolish man who ironically calls himself Danish.
I insist in following Quran Alone guided by my Lord, GOD Almighty and no one else. Alhamdu-Lillah.He refutes "ALL SOURCES EXCEPT QURAN" and yet INSISTS on FOLLOWING something taught by OTHERS.
Did the one take the JUMBO 747 or a specially contrued, heat-proof, melt-proof, luxurious air-conditioned supersonic with a built-in digitally engineered heavenly satellite to communicate with you. Say Hello to him if at you plan to visit him.The one who TAUGHT him this rubbish was sent flying to hell in 1990.
Rashad Laeen...is this name a satanic innovation of yours or is it written somewhere in your Diamul Islam? Never heard of him so I'm sure he must be your buddy buddy playing "catch-up" with you.But for Rashad Laeen he wouldn't be talking this nonsense yet he insists everyone learn on his own.
A trillion is a bit too much. I believe its around 7 billion, but you are getting close.There will then be a trillion ways of offering the Salah alone.
I didn't like the one you had built, so I sent it back to you where it belonged in a huge parcel via Spaceage "special-delivery" Cargo Company. If you need the tracking number, then please call me at: (786)THE-HEAVENS. You must keep this important number handy in case you change your mind.Pease brothers ignore this man, lhe has already found his own hell.
Re: The submitters
EXCERPT from muslim first:
"Gibreal AS taught Rasool SAW how to perform SAlah. Prophet taught the Sahab's and this knowledge was transferred to following generations."
In which case GIBREAL also taught the prophet how to treat the infidels and women and apostates, for example and this (knowledge ???)was - as you say - transferred to the following generations.
It's time someone put this dog to sleep!
"Gibreal AS taught Rasool SAW how to perform SAlah. Prophet taught the Sahab's and this knowledge was transferred to following generations."
In which case GIBREAL also taught the prophet how to treat the infidels and women and apostates, for example and this (knowledge ???)was - as you say - transferred to the following generations.
It's time someone put this dog to sleep!