Proggies & Mr Insaf ur comment on this

[truebohra]

Al-Mu`ayyad fi'l-din al-Shirazi (d. 1077) was another leading da'i of the Fatimid dynasty. His doctrinal system differs slightly from Kirmani's, especially with regards to the number of hierarchical ranks and the function of the philosophical hierarchy. However, he develops the concept of obedience already present in Kirmani and takes it a step forward: each rank of the ecclesiastical hierarchy hides, in potentiality, a superior rank. In particular, each rank is potentially the imam, the highest living authority. As a result, rebellion to any rank, even the lowest, is like rebelling against the Imam and, ultimately, God itself <16>.

This concept of obedience to the rank above became the key to the cosmology and authority structure of Yemeni Tayyibi Ismailism (1131-1539). During the last years of the Sulayhi dynasty in Yemen, Queen Arwa broke her allegiance to the Fatimid line of Imams, thereby making her da'wa independent from that of Fatimid Egypt. The imam Tayyib was declared to be in hiding in 1130 and Queen Arwa appointed a da'i mutlaq (Missionary general) to represent him and to look after the da'wa and the community. After the death of Queen Arwa and the end of the Sulayhid dynasty, the Missionary General became the highest living rank and his position became hereditary.

Doctrinally, Tayyibi scholars make the concept of obedience to the rank superior to one's own of paramount importance. Obedience to one's superior is obedience to God: he who does not acknowledge the superiority of the rank above one's self, falls from his position and descends to lower levels <17>.

Link: http://web.uni-marburg.de/religionswiss ... erini.html
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[S. Insaf]

Doctrinally, Tayyibi scholars make the concept of obedience to the rank superior to one's own, of paramount importance. Obedience to one's superior is obedience to God: he who does not acknowledge the superiority of the rank above one's self, falls from his position and descends to lower levels <17>.

As I understand the superior rank is not without certain qualifications. Otherwise why should our 18th Imam Mustansir Billah insist his Dai Ahmed bin Mohammad Nishapuri to list down elaborate almost 100 qualifications for a revered Dai? Why should our 3rd. Dai Sayedna bin Ibrahim-al-Hamidi again emphasis on those qualities and qualifications of a Dai in his Raisala “Mujazat-ul-Kafia?
These qualifications are divided under 4 major heads:
1) Educational qualifications
2) Administrative qualifications
3) Moral and Theocratic qualifications and
4) Family and personal qualifications

Remember these qualifications were even essential for the Dai working under the direct guidance of the Imam of his time in Zuhur time. They become even more essential during Satar time when Dai has to function on his own. That is why 3rd Dai of Satar Sayedna Haim again emphasized on them when Satar time began.
Only these qualification make a Dai suprior than his followers. Unfortunately that is not the case today. To put it mildly.

[like_minded]

If you want to build a house... you consult an engineer/architect/contractor.

If you are not keeping well... you consult a doctor.

If you want to promote your business... you hire a marketing executive.

If you are fighting a case ... you consult a lawyer.

In the same way.. If there is a customary/religious duty like marraige/death.. you consult a person who has knowledge in that particular field. Thats all!!!

Superior or Inferior does not come into the picture here.

A dai's post should take care of certain duties in the community, with the help of clean and tranparent administration, that should be it.

There is no room here for projecting himself (dai) larger than God and encouraging hero-worship.

[Gulf]

S.Insafbhai and L_M

All you mentioned qualifications required for dai post are available in current Dai (TUS).. for yourselves need to be positive an you may need wear the glass to see your mentioned qualifications.

SalamAlaykuM

[like_minded]

Assuming our dai is qualified... does it give him the right to project himself as God? Does it make him superior than his followers? Does it give him the right to extract money from his followers and build his own empire? Does it give him the right to lead a luxurious life-style? Does it give him the right to interfere in the lives of common bohras?

Bottom line... does it make him a god on earth??

[aftabm]

exactly my thoughts like minded....

unfortunately it has become a trend in all faith tht they have turned into mean of person glorification and epitomizing the person rather than faith itself.

[tahir]

Originally posted by Gulf:
S.Insafbhai and L_M

All you mentioned qualifications required for dai post are available in current Dai (TUS).. for yourselves need to be positive an you may need wear the glass to see your mentioned qualifications.

SalamAlaykuM

If you are actually positive and can wear a 'glass', you'll find all those qualities in every person in this world (including yourself). You see in the dai what you want to see.

[like_minded]

That is because there is lack of understanding among the masses. The masses always look for an escape route... and in hero-worship, they find one.

One cannot hold the hierarchy responsible fully for this current state of affairs, because it is the people who are hell bent on following him (dai)most readily bow down to his diktats, surrender themselves because they cannot eliminate the fear and greed present in them.

[Muslim First]

.
If you want to build a house... you consult an engineer/architect/contractor. And not to Dai since he is not qualified

If you are not keeping well... you consult a doctor.And not to Dai since he is not qualified, Yopu might get Phook nu Pani, that will not work and by coincidence works then Dai will definately take credit

If you want to promote your business... you hire a marketing executive. And not to Dai since he is not qualified

If you are fighting a case ... you consult a lawyer.And not to Dai since he is not qualified
In the same way.. If there is a customary/religious duty like marraige/death.. you consult a person who has knowledge in that particular field. Thats all!!!You can go to Kothar but it will cost you all kind of fees. I islam if you have prper witnesses you can enter into marraige contract without Mullah and so you can be buried without Mullah. All you need is somebody to give you proper Gusal, Pray Zanaza Namaaz bury you and say Fateha and recite Duaa

Superior or Inferior does not come into the picture here.

Wasalaam
.

[Anwar]

Mf, Lm, you are both right and wrong.
If you want to visit a foreign country, you apply for visa and approch their embassy/consulate
If you want to go to heaven, you just follow moula burhanuddin, he has a permanent visa for ALL mumineen, and according to him, only mumineen vill and shall be eligible to go there

[Anwar]

If you want to promote your business... you hire a marketing executive. And not to Dai since he is not qualified. Wrong again. you go get raza, and you will definately get it, its free, but you got to pay entrance fee, and you will get an advise, ofcourse free, the advise is to open a hardware shop.

[tahir]

Originally posted by Anwar:
you go get raza, and you will definately get it, its free, but you got to pay entrance fee, and you will get an advise, ofcourse free, the advise is to open a hardware shop.

Even a 14 year old can look up at a bohras's face for a moment and dole out a free advise to open a hardware shop. Two simple reasons:
1) Hardware business is easy to start and run.
2) Bohras have an aptitude for it.

[S. Insaf]

Brother Gulf says:
All the qualifications required for a post of Dai that you have mentioned are available in the current Dai.

Please go through them once again. They are on this board. Then decide yourself.

For your comparison I will give here just one example:

Dai should not be desirous of worldly rule, because that will carry him to falsehood. And falsehood is the root of all the reproaches (discredits), which results in transmitting enmity, malice, separation, quarrel etc.

All falsehood, enmity, malice, separation and quarrels started with Sayedna Taher Saifuddin desire of worldly rule. The moment he occupied the seat of Dawat he shifted the seat of Dawat from Surat to India’s commercial capital, Bombay. In his desire of worldly wealth and worldly rule he purchased a huge building in posh Fort area from the funds of Chandabhoy’s charity box. He called it a palace, Badri Mahal. He called himself “Sultanul-Bawahir”, his relatives as “Shahzadas” and Shahzadis”, started functioning as Mugal ruler with darbar practice, announcing his arrival, red carpet welcome, people bowing down before him, sitting on a gorgeous throne, purchase of an elephant, adopting hunting lions and tigers his pass time, arranging meetings with worldly politicians and leaders and publicizing his photograph with them, indulging in politics and commercial ventures.

It was for worldly rule that Sayedna Taher Saifuddin included Dai along with Imam in Misaq and made Misaq to Dai compulsory.

The British Government offered a title of the first class “Sardar” first to our 44th Dai Sayyedna Izzuddin II and then to 45th Dai Sayedna Zainuddin II. Both these Dai thankfully refused the worldly title of Sardar but requested the government to safeguard the interests of Dawoodi Bohras. But 51st Dai Sayedna Taher Saifuddin himself requested and acquired this title for himself. Hence till 1962 in all legal and personal documents Sayedna used write himself as “Sardar Sayedna Taher Saifuddin.” After 1962 he dropped this sign of British Raj and started calling himself as “His holiness” and “Dai-ul-Mutlaq.”

This policy of Sayedna Taher Saifuddin resulted and open violent clashes in the community which were unheard in the history of this community, court cases against Dai, divisions in the community, enmity against the great well-wishers of the community like Peerbhoys, Kinkhabwalas, Mamujis, Jeevanjis, Alvis, Moriswalas and thousands of others and constantly cursing them. Imposing of Misaq for Dai, Raza, Baraat and Sabeel and salams for Mazoon and Mukasir.

Prior to Sayedna Taher Saifuddin the subordinate Amils were educated and free from corruption and the community maintained its ethical superiority in the Islamic world. The litigations and protests and agitations started by the intended mismanagement and hence rampant corruption came in the Dawat’s administration.

Unfortunately the present Dai too perused the same policy and worsened the situation.

There is one qualification where it is said that “A Dai should accomplish the demands of believers, do them justice and protect them from oppressors. Dai should immediately intervene whenever a quarrel takes place among the believers.”

The entire history of Udaipur in recent time is a testimony that the present Dai has acted contrary to this qualification. Mumineen from various places complain to Dai regarding the high-handedness of his Amils but there is no response from him.

Further more it is said that “A Dai should not look around in self-admiration.”
And see the Madeh that is often recited before the present Dai:
Sajda tujhe wajib hai, too masjide-Azam hai,
Haj hai teri pabosi, too kaba-e-Alam hai.

There is a warning after describing the qualification of True Dai.
“If a Dai does not posses the above mentioned qualities in reality and is called, he will not benefit the community. It is useless to hope for any Spiritual profit from such a Dai. The assumption of the name of Dai for such a Dai is a sin and he is a sort of burden on believers. Mere name does not benefit. There also be quality and action combined with it.

Brother Gulf I am sorry to say that the 96 years-old present Dai is yet to prove by his action that he possesses the qualities of a True Dai. May Allah give him long life ta-kayamat so that we can be proud of him.

[like_minded]

A very good post S.Insaf Bhai!! I hope bohras who think otherwise, could use this piece of information for their own good.

[truebohra]

Mr Insaf & so called progressives,
First you ask for proof regarding the obedience / superiority of dai. when any one gives a reference
Doctrinally, Tayyibi scholars make the concept of obedience to the rank superior to one's own, of paramount importance. Obedience to one's superior is obedience to God: he who does not acknowledge the superiority of the rank above one's self, falls from his position and descends to lower levels
you deny it or take discussion in some another way.
you either believe the fatimid doctrine or deny it and say i dont accept the doctrine as it is but i have my interpretation of the same and i believe it to be the ultimate truth. If you want to argue and oppose u can have many reasons. But if want to believe you only need faith and that is it, you so called progressives lack.

[Humsafar]

truebohra,
The quote and article you cite is an interpretation. Can you cite a similar quote/edict from the Fatimid source books: Daim ul Islam and Tohfatul Qulub?

[seeker110]

The day I see our Moulla, his sons and kinfolks going out to work a full day,earn what ever they can honestly.Spend part of that earning for the welfare of poor and needy,I might count him as good as any ordinary man I know.I will respect him the same as I respect most of you common people.On the other hand,if moulla and sons do such a thing for the entire life,every day of his life than he would deserve more respect than any ordinary fellow.If honest hard work is haram for him or his sons,than he deserves no respect or better yet a kick in the a...

[like_minded]

Brother Seeker,

Honesty and hard work is alien to syedna and his family, they are used to luxury and all other comforts which money can buy (obviously our hard earned money).

[like_minded]

Expecting the hierarchy to lead a simple life, work hard with honesty and give up all the luxuries and comfort is like expecting a prostitute to give up her profession.