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[Bold]

Mr. Fakhruddin Jawadwala Son in law of Shk Shabbir Hussain Hyderabad wala AAmil of Baran (Kota - Rajasthan ) Swept Money 50000 - 60000 Riyals and ran away from Riyadh to India ......

huh Bohriiiiiiiisssss

[tahir]

whats so new about it?

[Al-Muizz]

COME ON! This is ubsurd!

Pakistanis and Indians are the biggest scammers in the U.S. after the Nigerians. How come we don't say the same about them?

Thugs come in all shape, size, gender, color, and religious orientations. Even Popes' were thieves, and Presidents' were corrupt, so what is the big surprise that a few corrupt Bohras are spotted. In fact, given the fact that we're a business community, I'm sure there are many Bohras who are corrupt.

Again, SO WHAT? THE ENTIRE U.S. GOVT. is corrupt! What's the big deal!

[babu]

Nope its not Correct Figure , its not 50,000 - 60,000 ..........its 49999-59999 ....

hehehe

[tahir]

what a wonderful explaination Al Muizz..where were u all these days....

folks,
next time,when during "kadambosi" mulla burhanuddin inserts a cigar into a brainwashed female from this sub human tribe, DO NOT COMPLAIN.....cuz we have the precedence of Clinton and Lewinsky....and afterall, WHATS THE BIG DEAL

[tahir]

Again, SO WHAT? THE ENTIRE U.S. GOVT. is corrupt! What's the big deal!

BUT they dont pretend to be spiritual. Do they?
Again, if u have noticed, the theft has been committed by an AAMIL and not an "ordinary" member of ur species - say a shopkeeper,a doctor or an "injiniyer"...

[Apnawala]

Mr. Bold

Its not a hot news in our community...its very common...Majority of Aamils and jamat members are currept....Most of the sheikh's have got ill earned wealth and they purify this wealth by giving Najawas.....

[khan19922001]

I was extremely disappointed to read Al-Muizz comments. His reply is a typical Bohra reply of "so what" While I appreciate that there are good and bad guys in every community, his casual attitude of accepting the theft was alarming. I certainly did not expect him to criticize the Aamils action, but his attitude did come as a shock.

I have no liking for the Bohra community and its beliefs, but I do not criticize or argue with the "believers" as I believe that I should keep my opinions to myself.

Is this what the Dai is teaching his followers, i.e accept anything that the Aamils do and do not criticize his wrong deeds also. Perhaps he is scared that if people are allowed to think, thye might challenge his authority.!!!

Regards

[Al-Muizz]

Listen:

I am gonna quote Isa Nabi: The one who claims he is sinless, please cast the first stone.....

Well, anyone??

You guys act like as if you are beyond human weaknesses, and that all these corruption is beyond other religions and govts...PLEASE SPARE ME THE CHEAP RHETORIC!

Tahir, are you American?? I am and I can tell you that the US Govt esp the Republicans love to mix "secular" "conservative" "Christian" values to hide their immoral and ultra corrupt agendas. Does that mean ALL Christians, ALL Republicans, ALL conservatives are corrupt??

People, get of your high horses. IF you are sinless, then you have the right to argue about other folks' morality. Otherwise, you should be concerned with making your Path the Siraat-E-Mustaquim, and let the Almighty pass the Judgements!

[khan19922001]

Going by Al-Muizz's logic, there should be no jails, prisons and courts as the people who adminster and control these institutions are not sinless and are therefore are in no position to pass judgements on others and punish them. ( What sort of a world would then we be living in. )

I cannot understand his rationale to keep on justifying Aamils' theft. The Aamil should be punished and convicted to act as a deterrent for future aspiring Aamils.

Regards

[babu]

hey ... Dont fight yaar read the post correctly

---------------
Mr. Fakhruddin Jawadwala Son in law of Shk Shabbir Hussain Hyderabad wala AAmil of Baran (Kota - Rajasthan ) Swept Money 50000 - 60000 Riyals and ran away from Riyadh to India ......
-------------------

The one who is corrupt is the " SON IN LAW "
not the AAMIL SAHEB Himself .....
tum log ko to bas issue chahiye

[tahir]

babu bhai,
it doesnt matter as long as he is from kothar. You'll get what I meant to say by reverting "CHOUR CHOUR MAUSEREY BHAI"..

[tahir]

Al Muizz,
You are trying hard to defend the indefensible by giving poor analogies. You might be having ur your own agenda and so do most of the people who get their share from the "booty". It would be really futile to argue on the topic further since you deliberately choose to circumvent the crux of it. Basically this is Jewish style of arguement which you have adapted. What I can suggest though is you do some introspection and ask your conscience if it is right to stand by an establishment which has enslaved a million "souls" (in literal sense).

And since you are American, I think I cant put the blame of cohorting with the kothar entirely on you. People who are born and brought up in North America are totally cut off from the bohra mainstream which suffers the tyrrany of the kothar led by mulla burhanuddin. You have to live in the small towns of India and see the reality of Dawat. The beautiful red rose of kothar which you guys smell is nourished by its bloody thorns sunk deep in the hearts of people residing in these towns. The present Dai reminds me of OSHO (Bhagvaan Rajneesh) whose cult was meant for the rich. People who had wads of dollars in their pockets found it spiritually fulfilling. But Osho atleast made it explicit that he was the God of rich. Besides, he had indepth knowledge of things and not the superficial knowledge that mulla burhanuddin has.

You may try to counter these arguements by stating the "huge" amount of money which the dai doles out as "karzan hasan" for the poor and needy. But again, u'll have to come down from the 100th floor of your ivory tower to know the reality of it. (Or may be you know it but feigning ignorance cuz of ur vested interests).

PS: As a matter of fact,I have found most of the doctors very supportive of kothar...

[Al-Muizz]

Tahir, Khan:

My point on this topic was as follows:

I am not condoning the theft by the son-in-law. I am stating that what the moron did is not unique to Bohras.

Now, do I think the guy should be brought to justice? Yes!

My beef with the story is the fact that you are trying to make it sound like Bohras are rogues and they are rogues because they are Bohras. The logic is flawed, since many Indians and Pakistanis' are in US prisons for fraud, etc.

I know you guys jump on any negative news about Bohras, but don't you think this story is a tad bit like any other scammer story?

Tahir: As for telling me about Indian villages, etc. I empathise with those who are in that situation. My collegues and I have done a lot of community service eg some provide free surgeries free medication etc (not in India, but in other places just as deserving), so I can appreciate their struggles. Poverty and unequal wealth distribution is the curse of mankind IN GENERAL. Case in point: We are the richest country in the world, but we have people sleeping in the capitol, homeless. See what I mean? It's not unique to Bohras, as sad as it sounds!

My point is this: Instead of lecturing a so called "ignorant" American about the "facts" of life, why don't you and your fellow colleagues, who are by the grace of God well of, help those very people you tell me about? Why not raise money for their education? My wife and I do that for kids in Asia, and I haven't even been there... so since you are there, why not do the same?
Why not pay for someone's hospital bills, and not worry about which Bohra gives and who doesn't? In the end your reward ,I have no doubt, will be given to you by Allah Subhanahu!

[babu]

Yaar Tusee to saade peechhey hee pad gaye ,Chalo Ehnu phone kar ne pooch lo pai tenu aisa kyun kida - hai na , oh da phone number hai 0091---menu nahin maalum oye tu hee pataa kar le o

[tahir]

AM,
This forum is specifically meant to discuss the state of corruption ridden bohra church, its consequeces on the community and the ways it could be reformed so it doesnt make any sense to talk about the pakistanis and indians in american prisons.

My beef with the story is the fact that you are trying to make it sound like Bohras are rogues and they are rogues because they are Bohras.

You got it wrong. The underlying meaning of our arguements was that the brainwashed Bohras are an oppressed lot due to a super corrupt kothar which should not have been there at the first place.

Tahir: As for telling me about Indian villages, etc. I empathise with those who are in that situation. My collegues and I have done a lot of community service eg some provide free surgeries free medication etc (not in India, but in other places just as deserving), so I can appreciate their struggles. Poverty and unequal wealth distribution is the curse of mankind IN GENERAL

You again got it wrong. I didnt mean poverty per se but the exploitation of ordinary bohras by the clergy. On an average, bohras are better off economically but still do not live with the dignity that anyone else with a similar income level enjoys.

My point is this: Instead of lecturing a so called "ignorant" American about the "facts" of life, why don't you and your fellow colleagues, who are by the grace of God well of, help those very people you tell me about? Why not raise money for their education?

What makes you think that we spend all our time in discussing on this board? And even if its true, we feel that raising our voice for liberating people from slavery is as good a deed as feeding or educating poor.

My wife and I do that for kids in Asia, and I haven't even been there

I appreciate your philanthropic deeds. May God Bless You.

[Al-Muizz]

Tahir:

When I was saying you, I hope you did not take it personally...if you did, my apologies. I meant you as a group. Yes, you are right, there are Bohras (from what I hear) in India who also live in squalid conditions, and that is really painful.

As for the corruption you speak of, what can you do to change things around? Is it important to have accountability in the Jamaat runnings? Of course! There is no way you can institute a mandatory policy over self-governance. The path to progress has to come from within. BUT, if you want to make progress in any society, you simply cannot do it from outside. You have to get involved with the Jamaat runnings, etc, and find like minded individuals who support your cause.

And, the changes cannot be universal. Every Jamaat is different, with different societal interpretations of what is good for them. In the US, for example, the Boston Jamaat is one of the most liberal-in the sense of accountability, use of Jamaat funds etc, and there are other Jamaats that are not.

[Al-Muizz]

I have a question about this story. Whose money did this idiot steal? Was it Jamaat money? Was it Saudi govt. money? Was it money he borrowed?

Why is this important? It clarifies the premise that there is no accountability in the system. Why so? Because stealing from govt can be traced!

[babu]

Originally posted by Al-Muizz:
I have a question about this story. Whose money did this idiot steal? Was it Jamaat money? Was it Saudi govt. money? Was it money he borrowed?
!

The money belongs to Khan & Tahir

[Hussain]

Hi Tahir and gang

Why do u guys want to reform the Dawaat ?
I mean if its evil why this evil is your cause there are a million other things in this world , why Kothar , Dawaat , Dai (TUS) etc

[tahir]

BUT WHY NOT THIS (which is one among the million dirty things)?....

[babu]

Yaar , woh banda to paise khaa kar mast haoga ... tum log kyon sookh rahe ho ?

[babu]

Anyway ,
From where did you get the name ???

[-Laila-]

Originally posted by tahir:
Al Muizz,
You are trying hard to defend the indefensible by giving poor analogies. You might be having ur your own agenda and so do most of the people who get their share from the "booty". It would be really futile to argue on the topic further since you deliberately choose to circumvent the crux of it. Basically this is Jewish style of arguement which you have adapted. What I can suggest though is you do some introspection and ask your conscience if it is right to stand by an
establishment which has enslaved a million "souls" (in literal sense).
And since you are American, I think I cant put the blame of cohorting with the kothar entirely on you. People who are born and brought up in North America are totally cut off from the bohra mainstream which suffers the tyrrany of the kothar led by mulla burhanuddin. You have to live in the small towns of India and see the reality of Dawat. The beautiful red rose of kothar which you guys smell is nourished by its bloody thorns sunk deep in the hearts of people residing in these towns. The present Dai reminds me of OSHO (Bhagvaan Rajneesh) whose cult was meant for the rich. People who had wads of dollars in their pockets found it spiritually fulfilling. But Osho atleast made it explicit that he was the God of rich. Besides, he had indepth knowledge of things and not the superficial knowledge that mulla burhanuddin has.

You may try to counter these arguements by stating the "huge" amount of money which the dai doles out as "karzan hasan" for the poor and needy. But again, u'll have to come down from the 100th floor of your ivory tower to know the reality of it. (Or may be you know it but feigning ignorance cuz of ur vested interests).

PS: As a matter of fact,I have found most of the doctors very supportive of kothar...

Tahir I completely agree with you. Let me tell you my experience. I was posted to London on a project a few years ago (when malumat.com was still not set up). As it was the 10th of Muharram I found out where the mosque was and went for the Vaaz. I needed a misri calendar as I was on my own and had no idea which day was "Var tevar" as we call the important days. So I went to the Mullah and asked him for a copy. He immediately started with the safai chitthi of parents and where you work and where you live and where your parents live. Eventally he said "Sabil na £50 lakhawo to calendar aapu" I was shocked !!! Needless to say I turned around and left!