GAY Acceptance in Progressive Dawoodi Bohras

[SENSODYNE]

There have been some incidences worldwide of without naming names gay bohras both orthodox and reformist who have committed suicide because they were gay. However today most of gay, bisexual and lesbian are still alive within the community. This means that some gay, bisexual and lesbian bohras felt they no options and could not ‘come out’, and did not want to spend the rest of their lives being a closet gay, getting married having children, or being exiled from the community.

Being Bohra and being gay, bisexual and lesbian in the UK. Is being a part of a minority of a minority of a minority. But coming out can be achieved. If you are living in a country where the practice of homosexual sex is illegal and punishable by death, it is much more difficult. Requires a lot of planning and money, as you may have to leave the country.

Here is a guide. If you are a closet gay, bisexual and lesbian bhori in the UK.

1. Only come out to very close friends (non-bhora if possible), your own brothers and sisters. Only come out after the age of 18 unless your parents are very broadminded and have questioned you about you sexuality first. At 18 it is easier to move away from home at housing and support is available. In the UK if you are studying or working there are many gay, bisexual and lesbian societies. www.outzone.org www.safraproject.org/mh.htm www.allsortsyouth.org.uk www.al-fatiha.net. There is no peer pressure, and you left to your own devices to socialize with whomever you want to.

2. After finishing University/other forms of education/working and now being able to support yourself financially. It is up to you whether you want to come out to your parents or guardians and it is up to your parents whether you can remain living in their house. This indirectly decides whether you remain in the community or not.

3. If parents disown you. You can leave the community and start new life. You have to understand it may be difficult for them to accept your sexuality. You can still communicate to them by writing letters if feel uncomfortable phoning them. In time they may accept that you’re gay, bisexual or lesbian

4. If parents accept your sexuality. You can still live at home, and continue with your life. You can be quite sure that you parents are not going to advertise to the rest to community that you are gay, bisexual or lesbian. This means you are free to attend community functions if you want to.

5. What about the rest of your life? What if you want to have kids?
If you want kids and you happen to be gay, bisexual or lesbian. And you want to remain in the community it a very difficult task but still possible.

If you are a Bhora male or female in the UK, find the gay, bisexual and lesbian clubs and pubs socialize in the area. You may spot a gay, bisexual or lesbian bhori girl/boy that you have seen in the masjid. Don’t be shy to say hello. Or post a fake name advert in the orthodox or reformist matrimonial website explaining your needs and wants. Meet in a public place, preferably a gay, bisexual and lesbian area. See if you hit it off. Explain to her explicitly what your intentions for marriage are. It could lead to a marriage of convenience, but at least it will be to your mutual convenience.
Gay mafia is normally associated with the very rich and powerful in Hollywood. But we also have are own. The Bohra orthodox priesthood and extended 'royal' family have members that are closet gay, bisexual and lesbian. Feel no shame in being gay, as it not your fault it is how Allah made you. It’s your life and it’s up to you what you want to do with it.

[hc]

Following are some articles from a knowledgeable site.

http://www.islamhelpline.com/view_answers.asp?QAID=347

http://www.islamhelpline.com/view_answers.asp?QAID=2986

http://www.islamhelpline.com/view_answers.asp?QAID=2988

I would suggest that if you have any querries on this do write to the forum at http://www.islamhelpline.com

[SENSODYNE]

Thankyou for your reply hc.
In terms of the 'weight' of sin. Is sodomy the most sinfull evil thing that one can do? Does it carry the same 'weight' of sin as a male paying to have sexual intercourse with a prostitute?

[quresh8719]

Bismillah Hir Rahman Nir Rahim,
Dear Muslims......,
Greetings be to those who are thye followers of righteous guidance, I Bid you to hear the divine call of Allah, Accept Islam for your Salvation.
"I turn my face to God, the originator of the heavens and the earth, a monotheist Muslim and I am not among those who join partners with God. My prayers and my rites of worship and my life and my death belong to the Lord of the Worlds who has no partner and I have been commanded thus and I am among those who submit themselves to God on the faith of Abraham and the religion of Muhammad and the way of Ali and I am innocent before God of those who are unjust. I ask protection of God the All-hearing and All-knowing from the accursed devil Ameen"

Story of LUT(may Allah the most high and the most gracious bestow blessings on the messengers of islam)7:80: "And (We sent) Lot; when he said to his people: Do you commit an abomination which no one in the world did before you? Surely you come to males with lust instead of females. Nay, you are a people exceeding bounds."

15:67 "And the people of the town came rejoicing. He said: These are my guests, so disgrace me not. And keep your duty to Allah and shame me not. They said: Did we not forbid thee from (entertaining) people? He said: These are my daughters if you will do (aught)."

29:29: "Do you come to males and commit robbery on the highway, and commit evil deeds in your asemblies?"

From this Allah Taala Makes it quite clear that Homosexuality in any form is forbidden in Islam.

Lets now understand the meaning of the Words

Islam-SUBMISSION TO THE ALMIGHTYS WILL. SUBMISSION IN ALL ASPECTS MAY IT BE LIFE OR SEX OR FOOD OR WHATEVER

Jihad- STRUGGLE AGAINST ONESELF. HOMOSEXUALS MUST STRUGGLE AGAINST THE VERY FACT OF BEING HOMOSEXUAL. A MESSENGER HAS BEEN SENT FROM AMONST US THEN WHY DO WE REMOVE MEANINGS OF THE QURAN TO SUIT OURSELVES. READ THE ABOVE LINES REGARDING LUT AND HIS PEOPLE AND PONDER ON THEM ON YOUR SELF. DONNOT LET SHAITAN OVERTAKE YOU. SEEK REFUGE WITH THE LORD OF MANKIND. THE FACT THAT NO ANIMAL HAS EVER DONE THE ACTS OF HOMOSEXUALITY IS CLEAR THAT ALL ALLAHS CREATIONS HAVE BEEN CREATED SO THAT MALE AND FEMALE UNITE TO GIVE BIRTH. IF HOMOSEXUALITY WAS ALLOWED IN ISLAM THEN I AM SURE ALLAH WOULD HAVE MADE A PROVISION FOR TWO MALES TO GIVE BIRTH OR TWO FEMALES TO GIVE BIRTH.

[Danish]

IF HOMOSEXUALITY WAS ALLOWED IN ISLAM THEN I AM SURE ALLAH WOULD HAVE MADE A PROVISION FOR TWO MALES TO GIVE BIRTH OR TWO FEMALES TO GIVE BIRTH.

Homosexuality is not the criteria of giving bith but that of sexual pleasure. True, that homosexuality is forbidden in Quran and an abominable act, but it doesn't mean that such evil acts are not displayed in Islam. As a matter of fact it is recognized in every religion and all over the world, specially in Canada, United States and the western countries where ligislations and contitutions have given them their every rights, such as marriage laws, adaptions laws, employment laws, etc. What a disgrace? Satan, jinns, devils and their kinds surely have their hands full.....

[nausicaa]

Why are religious people so interested in who is sleeping with whom? Is it to compensate for their own guilt at being sexual creatures? As long as two gays are not troubling you why not just leave them to their own devices.

A functional definition of theism is that there is a transcendent, universe-creating, dimension-spanning entity that, for some reason, is terribly obsessed with what I do with my penis.

-N

[Danish]

Some people are "religiously obssessed" with their phalluses and that's why they include themselves as religious by saying, "hey! count me in".

[Khairan]

> THE FACT THAT NO ANIMAL HAS EVER DONE THE ACTS OF HOMOSEXUALITY IS CLEAR THAT ALL ALLAHS CREATIONS HAVE BEEN CREATED SO THAT MALE AND FEMALE UNITE TO GIVE BIRTH.

Neither of these statements has any semblance of truth. Animals clearly and demonstrably have same sex unions, and there have even been extensive experiments done in which animals ranging from rats to monkeys can be shown, due to differences in brain development, to have preferences for different sexes or lack of interest in the opposite sex.

As for the second statement, there are many creatures which can spontaneously change their sex, or which are hermaphroditic and contain both male and female reproductive organs. Their is even one species of cellular life which has seven sexes, where any of the given sexes can mate with any of the others, but not itself.

There are in fact no valid "natural arguments" proving that homosexuality is against the intended order of things.

If you're going to maintain that homosexuality is wrong, than rely on the Qur'an, which certainly does seem to forbid it; science isn't going to help you with this one.

[truebohra]

I dont understand the argument of people supporting homosexuality. If they like it they should continue with it but not justify themselves by saying Kuran Shariff is silent on regards of it. Definetly its ur personal choice ur free to chose but the consequences of ur choice r not in ur control. Intellectual & progressive people r smart enough to justify thier position irrespect of whether its permitted in islam or not. I pity those people. may allah give them righ guidence

[qiyam]

Punishment recounted in surah 7 The Elevated Places:
[7.80] And (We sent) Lut when he said to his people: What! do you commit an indecency which any one in the world has not done before you?
[7.81] Most surely you come to males in lust
besides females; nay you are an extravagant people.
[7.82] And the answer of his people was no other than that they said: Turn them out of your town, surely they are a people who seek to purify (themselves).
[7.83] So We delivered him and his followers, except his wife; she was of those who remained behind.
[7.84] And We rained upon them a rain; consider then what was the end of the guilty.

The same incident is recounted in Surah 26 the Poets:

[26.160] The people of Lut gave the lie to the apostles.
[26.161] When their brother Lut said to them: Will you not guard (against evil)?
[26.162] Surely I am a faithful apostle to you;
[26.163] Therefore guard against (the punishment of) Allah and obey me:
[26.164] And I do not ask you any reward for it; my reward is only with the Lord of the worlds;
[26.165] What! do you come to the males from among the creatures
[26.166] And leave what your Lord has created for you of your wives? Nay, you are a people exceeding limits.
[26.167] They said: If you desist not, O Lut! you shall surely be of those who are expelled.
[26.168] He said: Surely I am of those who utterly abhor your
[26.169] My Lord ! deliver me and my followers from what they do.
[26.17O] So We delivered him and his followers all,
[26.171] Except an old woman, among those who remained behind.
[26.172] Then We utterly destroyed the others.
[26.173] And We rained down upon them a rain, and evil was the rain on those warned.
[26.174] Most surely there is a sign in this, but most of them do not believe.
[26.175] And most surely your Lord is the Mighty, the Merciful.

As you may know, the Prophet Lut or Lot is referred in the Hebrew texts as the one who warned and told of the events of Sodom and Gamorrah.

[SENSODYNE]

Jihad- STRUGGLE AGAINST ONESELF. HOMOSEXUALS MUST STRUGGLE AGAINST THE VERY FACT OF BEING HOMOSEXUAL. A MESSENGER HAS BEEN SENT FROM AMONST US THEN WHY DO WE REMOVE MEANINGS OF THE QURAN TO SUIT OURSELVES. READ THE ABOVE LINES REGARDING LUT AND HIS PEOPLE AND PONDER ON THEM ON YOUR SELF. DONNOT LET SHAITAN OVERTAKE YOU. SEEK REFUGE WITH THE LORD OF MANKIND. THE FACT THAT NO ANIMAL HAS EVER DONE THE ACTS OF HOMOSEXUALITY IS CLEAR THAT ALL ALLAHS CREATIONS HAVE BEEN CREATED SO THAT MALE AND FEMALE UNITE TO GIVE BIRTH. IF HOMOSEXUALITY WAS ALLOWED IN ISLAM THEN I AM SURE ALLAH WOULD HAVE MADE A PROVISION FOR TWO MALES TO GIVE BIRTH OR TWO FEMALES TO GIVE BIRTH.[/QB][/QUOTE]

[SENSODYNE]

If you are a closet gay, bisexual or lesbian. Should you tell your partner? I can understand an Islaminic veiwpoint of resisting gay, bisexual or lesbian feelings.

But surely in islam 'the truth shall set you free'.

Does this mean that if you are gay, bisexual or lesbian you have to get married?

If so, then if you are young and want to get married, then my guide offers the only practical solution.

Everyone who reads this has at least a gay cousin! You know who they are! There probably married and have children.

Am I right or what?

[Danish]

Q. What did the toothpaste say to the toothbrush?
A. Squeeze me and I'll meet you outside!