Another SCAM??????

[Muslim First]

Danis

Salaam

I know you are a ex Muslim. What religion you follw now?
.

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by Muslim First:
Danis

Salaam

I know you are a ex Muslim. What religion you follw now?
.

Danish, he wants to know what religion you follow, so he can now retaliate by gathering godforsaken crap to humiliate you. These are just a few of the Wahhabi tactics, with an occasional "salaam, peace, brother" attached. Hypocrites!
welcome to "Wahhabimania"

[Aarif]

Arif, I'll not even not respond to your inane comment. If you so insist, you may have the last word.

LOL: You already did..

[Humsafar]

I responded to your post, not your comment. If you do have to have a last word please say something intelligent.

[Danish]

Originally posted by Muslim First:
Danis

Salaam

I know you are a ex Muslim. What religion you follw now?
.

NONE!

There are a lot more Muslims than ever before questioning Islam, becoming apostates or shunning it entirely and becoming Bhuddists, Christians, agnostics/atheists or plainly humanists. Just recently, the dramatic force and numbers of ex-Muslims can now be gradually seen in their "councils" under the banner "Council of Ex-Muslims" all over the world, even in places like Pakistan and Afghanistan other than most Western and some Eastern countries. Just google "council of ex-muslims" and read up on them. One good site that I sometimes participate in is this one: http://councilofexmuslims.com/index.php ... tion=forum and another is: http://freefaith.myfreeforum.org/. Join in, introduce yourselves and start relating your concerns and asking questions. A well known site known as faithfreedom.org (http://www.faithfreedom.org/) has plenty of pertinent articles on Islam and especially debates of highly reknowned Muslim scholars from many countries are quite interesting to read up on.

[Aarif]

If you do have to have a last word please say something intelligent.

I have achieved Spiritual Enlightenment by following Islam

[Muslim First]

Narrated Abu Huraira

Allah's Apostle said, "Every child is born with a true faith of Islam (i.e. to worship none but Allah Alone) but his parents convert him to Judaism, Christianity or Magainism, as an animal delivers a perfect baby animal. Do you find it mutilated?"
Then Abu Huraira recited the holy verses: "The pure Allah's Islamic nature (true faith of Islam) (i.e. worshipping none but Allah) with which He has created human beings. No change let there be in the religion of Allah (i.e. joining none in worship with Allah). That is the straight religion (Islam) but most of men know, not." (30.30)

[amils]

[porus]

Originally posted by Muslim First:
Narrated Abu Huraira

Allah's Apostle said, "Every child is born with a true faith of Islam (i.e. to worship none but Allah Alone) but his parents convert him to Judaism, Christianity or Magainism, as an animal delivers a perfect baby animal. Do you find it mutilated?"
Then Abu Huraira recited the holy verses: "The pure Allah's Islamic nature (true faith of Islam) (i.e. worshipping none but Allah) with which He has created human beings. No change let there be in the religion of Allah (i.e. joining none in worship with Allah). That is the straight religion (Islam) but most of men know, not." (30.30)

Bad translation of 30:30 in hadith.

First part of ayat says this:

Fa-aqim wajha-ka lid-deen hanifan = so, keep your face pointed to religion like a monotheist (hanif was used to describe a monotheist during Prophet’s time).

Fitrata-llah al-lati fatara an-naas alayha = It is Allah’s nature which makes mankind naturally disposed towards Him.

Compare this with what Muslim First posted:

"The pure Allah's Islamic nature (true faith of Islam) (i.e. worshipping none but Allah) with which He has created human beings.

There is no mention of “pure Islamic nature of allah, nor of “true faith of islam”. Nothing about “worshipping none but allah.

This is how those ignorant of Arabic are duped.

[Muslim First]

Porus;

I copied it from 'The Alim' Software by isl.

I did not compare with othre translations. I just posted it bacuse you or somebody was looking for Qur'an Aya.

Wasalaam
.

[Muslim First]

This is how those ignorant of Arabic are duped.

Porus

If I was interested in nit picking a translation I would have looked up Multiple translations available on net.

Here are some of them

[Shakir 30:30] Then set your face upright for religion in the right state-- the nature made by Allah in which He has made men; there is no altering of Allah's creation; that is the right religion, but most people do not know--

[Yusufali 30:30] So set thou thy face steadily and truly to the Faith: (establish) Allah's handiwork according to the pattern on which He has made mankind: no change (let there be) in the work (wrought) by Allah: that is the standard Religion: but most among mankind understand not.

[Pickthal 30:30] So set thy purpose (O Muhammad) for religion as a man by nature upright - the nature (framed) of Allah, in which He hath created man. There is no altering (the laws of) Allah's creation. That is the right religion, but most men know not -

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 30:30]
Steadfastness on Islam, the religion, means submitting to Allah's will by living according to His law.

Refer to the commentary of Baqarah: 112, 135; Ali Imran: 95 and Bara-at: 36.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

The doctrine of original sin has been refuted.

The Holy Prophet said:

"Every child is born a Muslim (with the nature of submitting to Allah and following His laws) but the parents make the child a Jew, a Christian, or a Magian."

Refer to the commentary of Nur: 35.

Asad

30:30 AND SO, set thy face steadfastly towards the [one ever-true] faith, [25] turning away from all that is false, [26] in accordance with the natural disposition which God has instilled into man: [27] [for,] not to allow any change to corrupt what God has thus created [28] this is the [purpose of the one] ever-true faith; but most people know it not.

Note 25 (Quran Ref: 30:30 )
I.e., "surrender thy whole being"; the term "face" is often used metonymically in the sense of one’s "whole being".(Quran Ref: 30:30 )

Note 26 (Quran Ref: 30:30 )
For this rendering of hanif, see note 110 on 2:135.(Quran Ref: 30:30 )

Note 27 (Quran Ref: 30:30 )
See 7:172 and the corresponding note 139. The term fitrah, rendered by me as "natural disposition", connotes in this context man’s inborn, intuitive ability to discern between right and wrong, true and false, and, thus, to sense God’s existence and oneness. Cf. the famous saying of the Prophet, quoted by Bukhari and Muslim: "Every child is born in this natural disposition; it is only his parents that later turn him into a ‘Jew’, a ‘Christian’, or a ‘Magian’." These three religious formulations, best known to the contemporaries of the Prophet, are thus contrasted with the "natural disposition" which, by definition, consists in man’s instinctive cognition of God and self-surrender (Islam) to Him. (The term "parents" has here the wider meaning of "social influences" or "environment").(Quran Ref: 30:30 )

Note 28 (Quran Ref: 30:30 )
Lit., "no change shall there be [or "shall be made"] in God’s creation (khalq)". i.e., in the natural disposition referred to above (Zamakhshari). In this context, the term tabdil ("change") obviously comprises the concept of "corruption".(Quran Ref: 30:30 )

-------------
If anybody is interested in comments by A Yusuf Ali I will post it

[Above Average Bohra]

Brother Muslim First,

A couple of things mentioned by the translator were in bracket () which simply means they are his own interpretation of the quran. People who are in love with taawil should not be objecting to these things. They should consider the fairy tales that the taawilers have them believe that exist in the quran. Second, these same people talk about how wrong it is to literally interpret the quran and then do not miss a single opportunity to use the same literal interpret it in order to attack others who present their own opinions. Besides there is nothing wrong with interpreting "Islam" as "worshipping none but Allah", that is exactly what it means. A taawiler should know, unless he is brainwashed into worhipping Hazrat Ali.

[porus]

MF,

Now that you have had the opportunity to study the ayat (30:30)'s translations, I hope you will consult them before posting a ridiculous translations.

It is possible that hadith is accurate in that the Prophet said that all children are born Muslims. But that is not what the ayat states.

Of all the translations you posted, mine is the closest to the original.

The first use of the fitrah is a noun. It does not mean "natural disposition". It means "nature" or "characteristic". The second use is a verb 'fatara' with preposition 'ala', meaning "disposed towards".

Towards what? It has feminanine suffix "ha" as in "alayha". The "ha" refers to fitrah, the noun.

This is for your basic education.

[porus]

MF,

Regardless of what the Below Average Non-Bohra writes, 'literal translation' is not the same as 'literal interpretation'.

And as far as you and your fellow dupe are concerned, taawil is a 'load of crap' and a 'last refuge of scoundrels'. So, you are unlikely to learn anything about it.

I would like others to resume their debate about "spirituality". Wahhabis will have nothing to contribute to that and can be safely ignored.

[Above Average Bohra]

'literal translation' is not the same as 'literal interpretation'.

I learn new things from the taawilers every day. This is where general knowledge comes into the picture. If the literal interpretation and the literal translation are correct, then they both should be exactly the same.

You should watch the taawilers run when asked to post the taawil about an ayah of the quran and then decide if taawil according to these taawilers is a load of crap or not.

[Above Average Bohra]

One other thing, according to the taawilers, Hazrat Umar was enlightened and Hazrat Ali, Imam Hassan, Imam Hussein and the others were all irrational and brain-washed. Contributions about spirituality from these guys will be invaluable.

[Humsafar]

Porus, some of them are already spiritually enlightened. Any more of this stuff and they may likely end up with spiritual indigestion .

[Above Average Bohra]

Humsafar,

In that case, we will just go back and re-invent the wheel.

[Aarif]

Porus, some of them are already spiritually enlightened.

It is better to be spiritually enlightened then to be spiritually disillusioned

[porus]

Some who claim to be spiritually enlightened suffer from advanced spiritual indigestion leading to uncontrolled verbal diarrhoea.

Case in point. If a fully-sighted person bumps into an object and someone remarks "You are blind", I could literally translate that into Urdu as "Tum andhe ho". Now, if I also literally interpreted it.....

Areef,

Enlightened person rises above good-bad polarity.

[Muslim First]

Br. Porus

Now that you have had the opportunity to study the ayat (30:30)'s translations, I hope you will consult them before posting a ridiculous translations.

No I did not study it. I just posted them in hurry. IA I will study it on week end.

No comments from Turbooch, How strange!

Wasalaam
.

[Muslim First]

Those interested in Tafseer of 30:30-32
Should read folowing

The Command to adhere to Tawhid
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=30&tid=40316
Splitting into Sects and the Saved Sect
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=30&tid=40350

[Aarif]

Areef,

Enlightened person rises above good-bad polarity.

Br. Porus,

I agree with you. I am sorry if I offended you in anyway.

[Above Average Bohra]

porus,

Stupid analogy. The statement is a false statement in the first place if the person is not blind, if the person however is blind, then the literal interpretation is the same as the literal translation.

Aareef,

Since when does an enlightened person follow what others think an enlightened person should be like? These same idiots claimed that you shouldn't follow what the prophet preached and find out enlightenment yourself, and then decide to tell us what an enlightened person should and should not do.

[Danish]

Originally posted by Muslim First:

...the nature made by Allah in which He has made men; there is no altering of Allah's creation; that is the right religion, but most people do not know--

...no change (let there be) in the work (wrought) by Allah: that is the standard Religion: but most among mankind understand not.

...There is no altering (the laws of) Allah's creation. That is the right religion, but most men know not.[/QB]

Do you seriously think that a 1500 year old Allah's creation has not been changed/altered? The above verse defies the statement made by Muhammad or his alleged Allah. This also proves that this Allah is not only fake (a man-made idol) but has no powers of attributes whatsover.

The Holy Prophet said:

"Every child is born a Muslim (with the nature of submitting to Allah and following His laws) but the parents make the child a Jew, a Christian, or a Magian."

Unless you know the true meaning of a Muslim, this must be the biggest joke ever heard I'm afraid. These are some of the quips religionists admonish.

[Muslim First]

Br. Danis
Salaam

Please do not expect any respnse from me.

Peace
.

[porus]

Danish,

Your comment on the translation of 30:30 is misplaced and remember that you are not commenting on the Quran but on a misguided translation.

La tabdeela li-khalqi-llah = There is no substitute for Allah's creation (It is unique, there is nothing like it)

Like it?

dhalika ad-deen al-qayyim = That (It) is the valuable religion.

Allah is saying that monotheism of Quran is unique.

[Danish]

Originally posted by porus:
Allah is saying that monotheism of Quran is unique.

Porus, all books are written and/or compiled by human beings and there is not an iota of evidence that a book like Quran or any book for that matter came out of thin air fallen from above and the words being that of a fathomless deity. Thus I hesitate to believe that "Allah is saying" this or that but rather humans, to begin any conversation. I'm sorry, but let's be more logical and face reality, shall we.

As far as what is mentioned in 30:30 of the Quran which states that “there is no substitution or alteration in Allah’s creation”, well, that is what I can’t seem to understand since man has altered/modified Allah’s own creation in many ways. I also do not believe that it is unique in the sense of absolute perfection because that is simply not true.