Kothar's news site

[MOHD HUSSAIN]

Here is the news I retrieved from the site malumaat.com- It glorifies the Syedna as meeting with the high officials but gives no details as to what was discussed in those meetings-This has been the case all the time ever since the site opened-Can some of the abde syednas explain the reason why is the community kept in dark about this- Failing to explain that I presume most of these meetings are held to fill the pockets of these corrupt politicians in power so that they (Kothar) can keep on doing all the illegal & corrupt practices & avoid all the investigations on their huge empire! Read on---------------
"Ahmedabad: (13th Ramadan al Moazzam 1424 - 7th November 2003)


Aqa Maula TUS meets with Gujarat State Ministers

Huzurala TUS meeting with Gujarat State Minister of Education Shrimati Anandiben Patel and Gujarat State Minister of Water & Power at Qutbi Villa in Ahmedabad - Sent by Shahzada Aliwaqar Idrisbhaisaheb Badruddin Saheb DM "

[MOHD HUSSAIN]

Look at this News Item & vaez-What do you make out of this? He is advising you that it is O.K . to do Gunahs (Sins) & then just wash it out by doing the Matam! Guess they are doing Gunahs every minute & so what a way to get out of it! Please open your eyes!--------------------------
" AKHBAR

Aaqa Maula TUS ye 23 mi Ratey Maghrib ni namaz vastey Saifee masjid ma Padhara.

Aaqa Maula tus 11 PM Badri mahal ni masjid ma tashreef laya ane Isha nu Faraz parhayun. Aaqa maula tus ye washeq baad , 40 vaar jamno ane 40 vaar daabo gal lotava baad ghana tadarro na sathey Vasilo lidho. Aaqa maula tus ye Mumineen vastey ghani ane ghani doa farmavi. Apan sagla na Reti (sand) jetla gunaho chhey, gini na sakai etla gunah chhey, aapney Gunah karvani aadat parhi gai chhey. Pachhi farmayun ke Inshallah aapney jivarey fajr taraf valisu to begunah hoisu. Maulatena Fatema AS nu ghanu matam karey ane aansu nikaley. Etlu roye ke masallo bhingai jai."

[Average Bohra]

Translation:

Mumineen vastey ghani ane ghani doa farmavi

non-lisane-dawat: Mumin ney ghanoe paisa aapoe, maney wadharey salaam kersey. Mey wadharey Sheik banawis....

kinda-English: Make 'em mo' money so they pay me 'mo and I bestow good titles upon 'em.

aapney Gunah karvani aadat parhi gai chhey

non-lisnae-dawat: Mumin ghana paisa humna nathi aapta

kinda-English:: Money ain't comin' in like it used 'ta ! Takin' my boyz on huntin' trips cost $$$ !

ghanu matam karey ane aansu nikaley.

non-lisane-dawat: Chalo apney rowanoo plan kaarye

any-language: INSINCERE !

Etlu roye ke masallo bhingai jai
any-language: The sponsor of his masallo (McDonalds ?) needs to provide a dry one..at twice the contribution

....I'm Lovin' It.....

[MOHD HUSSAIN]

Thank you Average Bohra- I can not make any sense out of his vaez at all- It is utter nonsense for a so called learned man to deliver a vaez like that! I wonder what sort of blunder he makes when he meets all the politicians around the world ! He must be making a laughing stock out of himself plus a bad image for a bohra community!

[jahrastafari]

Once again we see the likes of Mohd Hussain talking BS and spinning the truth beyond all comprehension. His forked tongue knows no bounds!

He is advising you that it is O.K . to do Gunahs (Sins) & then just wash it out by doing the Matam!

That's not what was being said at all. The report you so stupidly assume to comment upon was a write up of the events of lailat ul qadr in Mumbai - not the words of Mola himself. If you had but one god fearing bone in your body you would have been admitting your sins and asking allah for forgiveness.

Instead you commit yet more gunnah by posting such ludacrous tosh.

Spin it some more...... like you always do!

[MOHD HUSSAIN]

Jah ! You could'nt be more brainwashed & ignorant! Did you read the report! It says"Aqa Moula farmayun Ke---Bla-Bla " What does that mean? Am i Spining Or Your Kothar news Casters? Why don't you go after them? I did not publish the news! So think over before you spit out your forked tongue!

[porus]

Aaqa maula tus ye washeq baad ,
40 vaar jamno ane 40 vaar daabo gal lotava baad
ghana tadarro na sathey Vasilo lidho.
Aaqa maula tus ye Mumineen vastey ghani ane ghani doa farmavi.
Apan sagla na Reti (sand) jetla gunaho chhey,
gini na sakai etla gunah chhey,
aapney Gunah karvani aadat parhi gai chhey.
Pachhi farmayun ke
Inshallah aapney jivarey fajr taraf valisu to begunah hoisu.
Maulatena Fatema AS nu ghanu matam karey ane aansu nikaley. Etlu roye ke masallo bhingai jai."

Following the washeq, Aqa Maula,
after pressing his right cheek 40 times and his left cheek 40 times,
with great emotion, invoked wasilo
Aqa Maula prayed for Mumineen very extensively.
“All of us have accumulated as many sins as there are grains in sand,
more sins than can be counted.
Sinning has become a habit with us.”
Then he said,
“Inshallah, when we approach the dawn, we will be forgiven our sins (lit. we will be without sin due to our prayers tonight).
Perform pur-josh maatam for Our Lady Fatema a.s.
And shed tears.
Weep so much that your musalla becomes wet with your tears.

[To be fair, there is no suggestion here that sinning is ok if you just beg forgiveness later].

[Muddai]

there is no suggestion here that sinning is ok if you just beg forgiveness later

I agree

ghanu matam karey ane aansu nikaley. Etlu roye ke masallo bhingai jai

Their appears to be an inference that planned aansu on demand might set you free.

As I write this I am researching other religions where such planned, public, coordinated display of grief is encouraged; specifically tears.

[porus]

Originally posted by Muddai:
Their appears to be an inference that planned aansu on demand might set you free.

Absolutely. There is a quote attributed to Imam Jaafar al-Sadiq which goes something like this.
"Weep for Hussain. One tiny tear will open the gates of heaven for you. If you are unable to shed a tear, make your face appear sad as if about to cry. Even that will be enough to grant you paradise."

Another quote from Imam. "Every day is Aashura and every land is Karbala."

Bohras have taken Imam literally to heart and beat themselves at all times.

Previously, I had written in reply to Qiyam that
I had never seen anyone beating themselves on their own after farad namaaz. Alas, I must take that back. I now see, mainly youngsters, quickly beat their breasts about seven to ten times before tasbih. Quite a spectacle. A recent innovation of the Dai guaranteed to gewt a Dawoodi to heaven! No questions asked by the angels in the grave!!

Aga Khani greeting is "Ya Ali Madad" Before Bohras start greeting one another with "Ya Dai Madad", I have a suggestion. When they greet, they shoud say "Ya Hussain" twice while beating their breasts twice. This will gladden the heart of Aqa Maula.

[jahrastafari]

Ironic isn't it how now having acertained what was actually said and acknowledging that [there] was no suggestion here that sinning is ok if you just beg forgiveness later the best you all can do is talk of inferences!

Mohd Hussain - when your own reformist chums agree with me that really does say something about your pathetic attempts to constantly look for negatives in anything we say or do.

[MOHD HUSSAIN]

Jah! You are too brainwashed to understand any criticism or satire exposed by Muddai& Porus! All you know is the magic word "Spin"- That is howfar you can argue!

[jahrastafari]

Mohd Hussain

I am not brainwashed and i understand satire and criticism just fine. What i am not is definately a spinmeister who siezes every morsel of information i can lay my grubby little hands on and manipulate it to suit my own ends. You must visit our sites all the time to try and get information that you can spin. You must really envy us huh?

Don't post such garbage and i'll go easier on you . Even your own side agree with me. Surely that's saying something about your abilites to argue?

[muminfirst]

Bhai Jah:

You are doing a great Jihaad here with these Munafiqueens who are trying to make a mockery of the gems coming out of Aqa Moula TUS.

Reformists: You'll should be totally ashamed of yourselves for such despicable behaviour.

We pray to Allah to give you taufeek so that you can see the light and ask for forgiveness.

[Muslim First]

.Br. Mumin First

You said:

Bhai Jah:

You are doing a great Jihaad here with these Munafiqueens who are trying to make a mockery of the gems coming out of Aqa Moula TUS.

You must remember that your Sultan is leading you away from true Islam by telling you gems like Cry for so and so and beat yourself silly for so and so. These are last days of Ramadan and your time will be better spent in extra prayers as done by our Rasul. What you Bohras are doing was never done by our Rasul.

It has been reported in an authentic narration that the Prophet of Allah (saws) said: “ Whoever introduces a ‘bida’ (innovation) in this deen brought by me (Mohamed (saws)), it will be rejected .”
Sahih Muslim Hadith 1885 Narrated by Jabir ibn Abdullah

That the Prophet of Allah (saws) said in a sermon: “ The best speech is that which is embodied in the Book of Allah, the Al Quran; and the best guidance is the guidance given by me, Mohamed (saws). The most evil affairs are the innovations, and every innovation is an error. ”

If anything is considered part of the deen of Islam, then it is our belief as believers that it was revealed by Allah Subhanah and practiced by the Messenger of Allah (saws). It is also our belief as believers, that there is no man who ever walked on this planet earth who worshipped and obeyed Allah Subhanah better than the Noble Messenger of Allah, Mohamed ar-Rasool Allah (saws).

So whatever you do make sure it is in Quran or was Suuah of our prophet.

Wasalaam

.

[WYP]

fitnat first,
go look for guidance from osama and the taliban. dont poke your nose into bohra affairs.

[Muslim First]

Qoute:

Absolutely. There is a quote attributed to Imam Jaafar al-Sadiq which goes something like this.
"Weep for Hussain. One tiny tear will open the gates of heaven for you. If you are unable to shed a tear, make your face appear sad as if about to cry. Even that will be enough to grant you paradise."

Another quote from Imam. "Every day is Aashura and every land is Karbala."

Only Allah SWT knows if Imaam Jaafar ever said it or not but Bohras have taken it to extreame to the extent that they no longer care to worship Allah but believe in salvation by following their Sultan in doing something which has no basis in Al-Quran or Sunnah of Prophet.

Wasalaam

.

[muminfirst]

Br. Muslim First, You mention

Only Allah SWT knows if Imaam Jaafar ever said it or not

That is can be said about anything that happened in the Life of anybody.

The point is, how much do you understand the between the lines in the Holy Quraan. You are going by interpretations of various Ulema's who do not have the authority to translate the Quraan. Allah Taala has designated Rasullalah and his progeny to be custodians of the real meaning. Tell me, What does "Alif Laam Meem" mean on its own. Without context and proper guidance you will be lost. Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb is the representative of Imaam in seclusion who has given him Raza for spreading the true meaning in the Quraan. You need to first beleive and then the light will come to you. If you question the basic premise then you will linger in the darkness.

Salaams:

[porus]

Alif, Laam, Meem???

I have this baatin version from a senior Dawoodi.

With reference to the start of al-Baqara,

Alif=Allah
Laam = Ali (ibn Abi Taalib)
Meem = Muhammad (Rasulullah)

Why is Ali before Muhammad? Because Muhammad was sent to identify and proclaim Ali as the foundation (asas) of Imamat. While Prophethood has ended, Imamat will go on till day of judgment and is supposed to be almost as eternal as Allah himself.

Second ayat of al-Baqara states: That is the book. In it there is no dispute.

"The book", therefore, is the Imamat and is symbolised in every age by the person of Imam al-Zamaan. Imam therfore is the real book and is called the Quran Naatiq.

So, in the Quran, the words book and Imam carry the same meaning. The case in point is the last sentence in 36:12 (ya Seen). It states that "All (knowledge) is vested in the true Imam". Sunnis translate Imam as the book. But Bohras know better. It really refers to Imam al-Zamaan.

Since everything is in Imam. then Imam is the Univcerse, the real singularity from which the Universe exploded with a big bang.

As we all know, Imam, in his grat hikmat, has decided on his own big bang by vesting all knowledge in the Dai. Therefore, in the new age, it is the Dai who is the axis on which the universte turns. So Dai is the book referred to in al-Baqara and so it is. I have spoken the truth.

Long live the Dai. He is the truth, the way and the salvation.

[MOHD HUSSAIN]

So Jah! Here you are agreeing that what I posted (Aqa mola"s sermon) was a gabage!finally you and I are agreeing somewhere! I am so glad you are getting enlightened reading messages here! Stick around -there is more to come-And Mumin First -Where do you find the "GEMS" in the moula's vaez? You sure make us laugh on your ignorance & fanaticism !

[MOHD HUSSAIN]

I meant "Garbage"- Typing error-Sorry-

[Average Bohra]

Therefore, in the new age, it is the Dai who is the axis on which the universte turns

Scary ain't it ! Considering new age..we are stuck with this father son inheritance for a few generations....and that includes knowledge transfer, not just cash......

...never mind I have better things to do....beat chest seven times and perform Kadam Bosi....or tasbee or something....

This "everyday is Ashura" bit is keeping this average Bohra mighty busy.....surely Dai is using my money for good stuff....I mean something is surely left over after his family is done with it...right ?

I mean everytime there is a tragedy or a new Masjid, more cash is collected, yet Qiyams of the world believe that the Dai spends a lot of cash.... his cash

...anyway who am I to question, today is Ahsura, everyday is Ashura, Matam, Kadam Bosi, ...bro' it keep this average Bohra mighty busy....

[jahrastafari]

Mohd Hussain

You can't help yourself can you? See what i mean about spin. You take anything anyone ever says and try and turn it around.

The garbage i was refering to was the idiotic, misguided and just plain stupid stuff you come out with. I think you know that too your just trying to get a reaction out of me. Well that just makes you look like an even bigger chump then you already are...

[jahrastafari]

Average

I'm afraid your attempts at wit fall flat on their face. It's clear you have no idea of what was actually said and the context in which it was spoken. Equally clear is your beligerence towards the very real sacrifice of Imam hussain and the ahle bait. If you had any semblence of understanding of the significance of their sacrifice and the fact that they died that you might live, then you wouldn't be dissing the way you are. Don't you reformists believe in Imam Hussain anymore?

If you haven't got anything better to do then make disparaging remarks then button your lip. Argue intelligently if you can but don't post stupid remarks which arn't even funny.

I'm lovin it....[Not]

[Muslim First]

.
Br. Mumin First
AS
Let me answer your post point by point

"The point is, how much do you understand the between the lines in the Holy Quraan."

If religion was my full time business and I was avers to creating my batin version of Qur'an then I would let my imigination go. There will alwas stupid Sheep like you to latch on to. At present I am busy understanig apperent meaning of Qur'an and there is plenty of material to study.

"You are going by interpretations of various Ulema's who do not have the authority to translate the Quraan."

Show me where in Qur'an or Sunnah of Prophet it says that you have to have authority to translate Qur'an? There is no true translation of Qur'an. All translations around are "Interprated Translations. If you show me prohibition of Translation of Qur'an then I will stop studying Translations.

"Allah Taala has designated Rasullalah and his progeny to be custodians of the real meaning. Tell me, What does "Alif Laam Meem" mean on its own."

Show me where it is said in Qura'an? See purush's response on Alef,Laam,Mim. If you want to read on Muqatat (abrivated letters) there is good write-up in Yusuf Ali's and ASAD's translation.

"Without context and proper guidance you will be lost."

No brother I am not lost. You are lost bacause you are blindly following a person.

"Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb is the representative of Imaam in seclusion who has given him Raza for spreading the true meaning in the Quraan. You need to first beleive and then the light will come to you. If you question the basic premise then you will linger in the darkness.

Why is Imaam in seclusion? There is no such thing as Imaam-Zaman. let me qoute Humsafar what he wrote about Imaam-ZAman:

""As for the Imam in seclusion, it has become a myth for all religious purposes.But the current Bohra priests want to sustain and perpetuate it for the very practical purpose of legitimacy and fooling the public".(Obviously for their money making scheme)."

Wasalaam.

.

[muminfirst]

Br. Muslim First:

All I will say at this point is

"Lakum Di Nakum Wale Yadeen"

Let your deen be with you and mine be with mine. I see that you have gone down the literal path and do not understand Baatin. I pray that you will see the light somebody, Inshallah.

[porus]

Mumin First,

I see you are a pro at Baatin. Please enlighten us on the baatin of the following ayat from an-Nisa, 4:174

"O mankind! Burhan has come to you from your lord. Lo, we have sent you a true light (of deen)."

That is my translation. See how I have made 'B' of Burhan upper case and 'l' of lord in lower case. As we, the true mukhliseen, mumineen know, every ayat in the Quran points (ishaaro kare che) towards Aqa Maula.

To aa baabat per zor kari-ne apan sagla ne aa noorani kalemaat nu haqiqat-ma su ilm chhe, teni waaqefiyat araz farmavo. Aqa tamne ghani dua aape.

[Average Bohra]

It's clear you have no idea of what was actually said and the context in which it was spoken.

You're right, I am an Average Bohra, what do you expect from me ?

[anajmi]

There is another ayat, I forget from which surah but it starts with something like "kul haato burhanukum" or "bring your burhan and I will bring mine" May Allah forgive me if I have misquoted.

[porus]

Originally posted by anajmi:
There is another ayat, I forget from which surah but it starts with something like "kul haato burhanukum" or "bring your burhan and I will bring mine" May Allah forgive me if I have misquoted.

Actually, it is the last part of ayat 111 from al-baqarah [2:111]

Waqaloo lan yadkhula aljannata illa man kana hoodan aw nasara tilka amaniyyuhum qul hatoo burhanakum in kuntum sadiqeena
And they say: "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful."

The whole ayat is from al-baqarah (2.111)

Wa qaloo, “lan yadkhula al-jannata illa man kana hoodan aw nasara”
Tilka amaniyyu-hum.
Qul “Hatoo Burhana-hum, in kuntum saadiqeen.”

And they say “Only the Jews and Christians will enter paradise.”
That is their wishful thinking.
Say “Bring your Burhan if you are truthful” .

Needless to say, only Bohras will be able toi produce Burhan Aqa, and only they will enter paradise.

[porus]

,u>Correction</u>

Originally posted by anajmi:
There is another ayat, I forget from which surah but it starts with something like "kul haato burhanukum" or "bring your burhan and I will bring mine" May Allah forgive me if I have misquoted.

The whole ayat is from al-baqarah (2.111)

Wa qaloo, “lan yadkhula al-jannata illa man kana hoodan aw nasara”
Tilka amaniyyu-hum.
Qul “Hatoo Burhana-kum, in kuntum saadiqeen.”

And they say “Only the Jews and Christians will enter paradise.”
That is their wishful thinking.
Say “Bring your Burhan if you are truthful” .

Needless to say, only Bohras will be able toi produce Burhan Aqa, and only they will enter paradise.