Ismaili mazhab

[Muslim First]

Ismaili mazhab is not Islam. Ismailis (Pardesi, M. Khan and Buffoon Turbooch) on this board will deny that. Ismailis beliefs are as follows:
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From http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 1&start=15

zahirkarim
Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 4 Location: Houston,TX, USA
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: Passing away of Rai Abualy Aziz


Ismaili mazhab intelectually rational I and we all learn from him (of course he extract all from Holy Ginans for us all) are:

1) God and sprits before creation of world.

2) Creation of world

3) Darvin’s theory is parallel to religious beliefs

4) Das (10) Avtar linked and related& to our religious beliefs

5) Concepts of : 4-Yoog (Joog), 4-Kalap, Karan,

6) Adams before this Adam

7) Imamat was promised and started from Hazrat Ibrahim (A.S. )

Hazrat Ali (Jalali) And Hazrat Nabi Mohammad (Jamali) Manifestation of God.

9) Imam is NOOR in the body Imam, not the body itself.

10) Deedar is seeing Noor-e- Imam

11) What is current Imam doing is a great preparation and part of Zahoor

12) Situations before Zahoor

13) Daeent Kalinga’s appearance, power and end

14) Restart of Sat-Yoog in second decade of next century and rein of Imam

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This is not Islam
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[turbocanuck]

Hey Munafeeq-E-Azam Forever,
i missed you.....what no more goats and cows to halalify? Or have you run out of "favour". maybe you're just too bored or Probably no one cares about you....
And yeah...i read your posting.......hmmmm. not Islam eh?

how about this?

Allowed to thump women

Marry little girls

Have sex with minor girls, age 9 ......???

steal other peoples property

terrorise non Muslims, or muslims for that matter

own slaves

kill prisoners of war

kill apostates

rape captive female slaves

tell sick people to heal themselves by drinking camel urine

beat children who do not pray

have boys as young as 13 years old beheaded

tell lies

extort money from other religions

forced conversions to islam

commit acts of terror

encourage rape of women in front of their husbands

MAYBE THIS IS YOUR BRAND OF ISLAM??

[Muslim First]

have boys as young as 13 years old beheaded

U.S. Has Detained 2,500 Juveniles as Enemy Combatants
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 65_pf.html

US Missile Kills children, others in Pakistan
http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=169385

[Muslim First]

commit acts of terror

Sexual Terrorism
http://www.counterpunch.org/rosen05132008.html

[Muslim First]

The Tortured Law on Torture

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200 ... n_torture/

[Muslim First]

kill prisoners of war

Killing by the numbers
In 2007 elite U.S. snipers executed an unarmed Iraqi prisoner in cold blood. Have the insidious tactics that led to atrocities in Vietnam reemerged in Iraq?
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/05/09/snipers/
.

[Muslim First]

commit acts of terror

Hillary Plays the Crazy Card

http://www.observer.com/2008/hillary-plays-crazy-card

[turbocanuck]

Dear Muslimo Fascist,
Surely WE hold Islam to a higher esteem, right? We know what the Americans are doing. You refuted every one of my views by retorting with what the Americans are doing as your original contention was with the Ismaili madhhab.. Thats because you are an illiterate dummy. You are retarded.
Your retortion would show that you are a desperate idiot. It doesnt make all these shameful acts ok just because Americans are doing it. Now go back to your "Abba"toir and behead more sheep. what an idiot.

[anajmi]

Bro Muslim First,

You need to take note of the fact that the Ismaili idiot did not refute a single point you made about their Ismaili Mazhab but went on a completely different track. That tells you something doesn't it?

[Muslim First]

Turbo

I am trying to give here facts on Ismaili Madhab.

Facts on Islam are well known.

There are many so called Muslims who distort or disobey tenants of Islam.

That does not mean Islam is bad.

I am trying to show here that Ismaili madhab is not Islam but a different Madhab.

So I will continue my posting of my understanding of Ismaili Madhab as gleamed from Ismailies.

Being Ismaili you can dispute it by giving me facts or show me where I went wrong. There is nothing wrong with Islam as practiced by Prophet and his followers.

So tell me what I posted and I repeated below is correct or wrong

I repeat:

Ismaili mazhab intellectually rational and as per your Holey Ginans:


1) God and sprits before creation of world.

2) Creation of world

3) Darvin’s theory is parallel to religious beliefs

4) Das (10) Avtar linked and related& to our religious beliefs

5) Concepts of : 4-Yoog (Joog), 4-Kalap, Karan,

6) Adams before this Adam

7) Imamat was promised and started from Hazrat Ibrahim (A.S. )

Hazrat Ali (Jalali) And Hazrat Nabi Mohammad (Jamali) Manifestation of God.

9) Imam is NOOR in the body Imam, not the body itself.

10) Deedar is seeing Noor-e- Imam

11) What is current Imam doing is a great preparation and part of Zahoor

12) Situations before Zahoor

13) Daeent Kalinga’s appearance, power and end

14) Restart of Sat-Yoog in second decade of next century and rein of Imam


You can present Mainstream Islam as understood by you in separate forum.

Take care.

Ya Allah Madad

[Muslim First]

You refuted every one of my views by retorting with what the Americans are doing as your original contention was with the Ismaili madhhab.. Thats because you are an illiterate dummy. You are retarded.

Guess who is retrard!

You did not dispute anything I posted about Ismaili Madhab. Please stay focused take your Meds.
.

[turbocanuck]

There is nothing wrong with Islam as practiced by Prophet and his followers.

What????? being portrayed as a murderer, a pedophile and a wife abuser amongst othe shameless things is OK? nothing wrong????? what are you on? camel urine?? take your real medications!!

[Muslim First]

Br. anjmi;

AS

You will see him run or come backe with same B.S.

Wasalaam
.

[Muslim First]

See what I told you

[turbocanuck]

Dear Muslimo Fascist, what you posted is an opinion of an Ismaili (who knows it may be yourself) for all we know. and dont find it necessary to defend it with you, however what i posted is there IN YOUR CORRUPTED HADITH. if you want proof, i will itemise all my allegations with reference from the HADITH. go and spar with your Fat and Pedophile Mullah. You Sir are an Idiot. let me know if you are interested to see them revealed.

[Muslim First]

Turbooch

We are talking to wall.

I assume you do not dispute what I presented.

Pardesi are you around?

Take care
.

[pardesi]

Yes MF I am around and am trying to stay focused on your stupidity! Its hard, let me tell you

[pardesi]

MF,

Your initial post on this thread is somewhat smudgy and tricky at best. What is your point?
That Ismailism is far from Islamic beliefs because someone on another website posted someone
else's views or referred to Abually's lectures? Abually, an Ismaili missionary, lectured on religious as well as worldly matters throughout his career. The fourteen points that you have mentioned in your post are not accompanied by your questions. To you Islam may be just the five pillars, to us Ismailis it is a lot more than that and our search takes us far and beyond all that is there in print. The Islamic teachings are spread over all the religions of this world just like the ayats of Quran spread over several surahs dealing with a particular subject. Similarly, this Quran in fact is part of another book, so the Quran says. No end to learning.

Ismailism encourages distant learning, so to speak. We try to find justification of things we believe in in every religion. Hazrat Ali once said that he can give judgement to a Nassara according to bible, a judgement to a jew according to their old testaments and it will be a judgement where even their books will say that Ali has judged with truth.

So I ask again, what is your point? If you come up with the same old fart, I am not interested. It simply will stink. I see nothing but fitna in your posts.

[anajmi]

Hazrat Ali once said that he can give judgement to a Nassara according to bible, a judgement to a jew according to their old testaments and it will be a judgement where even their books will say that Ali has judged with truth.

Do you know why Hazrat Ali didn't mention the vedas or the puranas or the ramayana or the mahabharata, or how he would deal with a Hindu? C'mon, Ismailis have all the knowledge, I am sure you know the answer to that.

[pardesi]

Probably because he was speaking to "Islamised morons" who had never heard of hindu nation and their customs and culture and would have taken "hindu" as some sacrificial animal. Enough of your "moronic verses". Stay out.

[Muslim First]

Br. Pardesi

Y Allah M

I am glad you are back.

Tell me:

Is "Das (10) Avtar" Islamic belief? Did Prophet, Hz Ali RA, Qur'an or any Qur'anic scholars believe or mentiononed about "Das (10) Avtar".

Do Ismaili believe in "Das (10) Avtar"?

.

[Muslim First]

to us Ismailis it is a lot more than that and our search takes us far and beyond all that is there in print.

In your serch, If you find something which is against Qur'an or Sunnah do you still accept it?
.

[anajmi]

pardesi,

That was exactly the response I was expecting from you. But since you knew you were cornered you had to add in that Ismaili flavour. I will give you one more chance to explain, and then I will shred your theory about what Hazrat Ali has said and what the Ismaili idiots have understood, into pieces.

[pardesi]

MF, before we go further with your line of questioning (God, I feel like a being in a court of law), could you give me your opinion/views on the following article. I am sure you have read it before.

"Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) in Hindu Scriptures

By Prof. Pundit Vaid Parkash, Translated by Mir Abdul Majeed

The Last Kalki Autar (Messenger) that the Veda has foretold and who is waited on by Hindus is the Prophet Muhammed ibn Abdullah (saw)
A recently published book in Hindi has raised a lot of hue and cry all over India. In the event of the author being Muslim, he would have been jailed AND a strict ban would have certainly been imposed on the printing and the publishing of the book.

The author of this important research work "Kalki Autar" i.e. "Guide and Prophet of whole universe" comes of a Bengali race and holds an important portfolio at Ilahabad University. Pundit Vaid Parkash is a Brahman Hindu and a well known Sanskrit scholar and research worker.

Pundit Vaid Parkash, after a great deal of toil and hard-work, presented the work to as many as eight great Pundits who are themselves very well known in the field of research in India, and are amongst the learned religious leaders. Their Pundits, after thorough study of the book, have acknowledged this to be true and authentic research work.

Important religious books of India mention the guide and prophet by the specific name of "Kalki Autar" it denotes the great man Muhammed (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) who was born in Makkah. Hence, all Hindus where-ever they may be, should wait no longer for any other 'kalik autar' but to embrace Islam and follow in the footsteps of the last Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) who was sent in the world about fourteen hundred years ago with a mission from Him and after accomplishing it has long ago departed this world. As an argument to prove the authenticity of his research, Pundit Vaid Parkash quotes from the Veda, a sacred book among Hindus:

1. Veda mentions that 'kalki autar' will be the last Messenger/Prophet of Bhagwan (Allah) to guide the whole world. Afer quoting this reference the Pundit Parkash says that this comes true only in the case of Prophet Muhammed (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).

2. According to a prophecy of Hinduism, 'kalki autar' will be born in an island and that is the Arab territory which is known as 'jazeeratul Arab'.

3. In the 'sacred' book of Hindus the father's name of 'kalki autar' is mentioned as 'Vishnu Bhagat' and his mother's name as 'somanib'. In sanskrit, 'vishnu' stands for Allah (swt) and the literal meaning of 'bhagat' is slave.

'Vishnu Bhagat' therefore, in the Arabic language will mean Allah's slave (Abdullah). 'Somanib' in Sanskrit means peace and tranquilty which in arabic is denoted by the word 'Amina'. Whereas the last Messenger Muhammed's (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) father and mother's names were Abdullah and Amina respectively.

4. In the big books of Hindus, it is mentioned that 'kalki autar' will live on olive and dates and he will be true to his words and honest. In this regard Pundit Parkash writes, "This is true and established only in the case of Muhammed (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)".

5. Veda mentions that 'kalki autar' will be born in the respected and noble dynasty of his land. And this is also true as regards Muhammed (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) as he was born in the respected tribe of Quraish who enjoyed great respect and high place in Makkah.

6. 'Kalki Autar' will be taught in the cave by Bhagwan through his own messenger. And it is very true in this matter. Muhammed (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was the only one person in Makkah who has taught by Allah's Messenger Gabriel in the cave of Hira.

7. It is written in the books which Hindus believe that Bhagwan will provide 'Kalki autar' with the fastest of a horse and with the help of which he will ride around the world and the seven skies/heavens. The riding on 'Buraq' and 'Meraj' by the Prophet Muhammed (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) proves what?

8. It is also written in the Hindus' books that 'kalki autar' will be strengthened and heavily helped by Bhagwan. And we know this fact that Muhammed (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was aided and reinforced by Allah (swt) through His angels in the battle of Badr.

9. Hindus' books also mention that 'kalki autar' will be an expert in horse riding, arrow shooting, and swordsmanship. What Pundit Vaid Parkash comments in this regard is very important and worth attention and consideration. He writes that the age of horses, swords, and spears is long ago gone and now is the age of modern weapons like tanks, missiles, and guns, and therefore it will be unwise to wait for 'kalki autar' bearing sword and arrows or spears. In reality, the mention in our books of 'kalki autar' is clearly indicative of Muhammed (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) who was given the heavenly book known as Al-Qur'an.

Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) in Hindu Scriptures"

[pardesi]

Anajmi,

Thanks for giving me another chance! whew! If you keep missing the point I am trying to make, it will be very difficult for me to stay with you.

T h e p o i n t I w a s t r y i n g t o m a k e w a s t h e i m p o r t a n c e o f s e e k i n g k n o w l e d g e o f o t h e r r e l i g i o n s a s w e l l.

Focus Anajmi! I have slowed down for you so you could catch up with me.

Now you can go ahead a shred to pieces anything you want, you human shredder.

[Danish]

Speaking of prophet Muhammad, wasn't his real Abu al Qassim?

[Muslim First]

Pardesi

It is tough to read trash you dish out.

I do not know who is Prof. Pundit Vaid Parkash is.

I do not care if Prophet SAW is mentioned as Kalaki Avatar in Hindu Scriptures. Even if he is mentioned there, I do not have to become "Adhah Hindu" (Which Ismailis are)

There are many other people mentioning Prophet SAW in their scripture.

Why dou you or I have to believe in what is in scripture of other religion.

If Islam needed to borrow from other religion then why did Prophet SAW destroyed dieties of his fathers religion?

Pl.Read this:

Entering Islam in its Entirety is obligated
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=5541

.

[Muslim First]

T h e p o i n t I w a s t r y i n g t o m a k e w a s t h e i m p o r t a n c e o f s e e k i n g k n o w l e d g e o f o t h e r r e l i g i o n s a s w e l l.

It is OK and desirable to know other religion but you do not habe to incorperate in your religion.

[pardesi]

MF,
"It is tough to read trash you dish out."

What a coincidence! I feel the same way about you.

"I do not care if Prophet SAW is mentioned as Kalaki Avatar in Hindu Scriptures."

Prophet Mohammad is not mentioned as "Kalki" in the hindu scriptures by name although a hindu pandit after long study arrived at this conclusion. You and I should all feel good about this. You say "I do not care"? Haven't I heard this statement before somewhere else? Do you need wacking again?

"Why dou you or I have to believe in what is in scripture of other religion."

No one said you have to believe in scriptures of other religion! Wait, wait, wait - Aren't we supposed to believe in Bible and the Old Testament - after all Quran only confirmed those scriptures? They are books of God aren't they?

"why did Prophet SAW destroyed dieties of his fathers religion?"

Could you please elaborate on this. What was Abdullah's religion?

[pardesi]

"Could you please elaborate on this. What was Abdullah's religion?"

Now dont go crazy with your answer. I know that Abdullah, the father of Mohammad, never recited the Kalima, nor did he ever have a chance as he died within 2 months before or after the birth of Mohammad but calling him an "idol worshipper" is really insulting the Prophet.