Ismaili mazhab

[Muslim First]

JM

Since you like to discuss Philosophy and Tawil then you surely will like to discuss:

"An Interpretation of the Ghat Paat Ceremony"

C. THE LARGE PYALI (MUG)

Represents the wasi - a successor to the Prophet who guides and leads the interpretattion of the Law. In this case it refers to the Imam.

From the Zaheri point of view the Imam is regarded lower than the Prophet, but from the Batin, it is the other way around. i.e. the Prophet guides people towards the Imam.

Was Prophet inferior to Ali RA?

What do you say Br. Porus?

Looks like pardesi could not handle the question so he raaaan away with his tail between legs.

.

[porus]

Muslim First,

You are a Bigot. A Wahhabi Bigot to boot.

It would be better for Ismailies to stop responding to your posts. And also to the posts of the other Bigot.

Have a good day.

[anajmi]

Br. Muslim First,

The taawilers will be able to tell you that after you tell them who had the bigger cow for the barbecue!!

[Muslim First]

Br. Porus

AS

Why are secrete teachings like Ali RA is superior to Prophet is prevalent in Ismaili faith?

Why do you call somebody who exposes these teachings a bigot?

Why do Ismailis pray to Ali and hazir Imama?

Why do Bohras pray to Hussain and ask favours from him?

Wasalaam
.

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by Muslim First:
Br. Porus

AS

Why are secrete teachings like Ali RA is superior to Prophet is prevalent in Ismaili faith?

Why do you call somebody who exposes these teachings a bigot?

Why do Ismailis pray to Ali and hazir Imama?

Why do Bohras pray to Hussain and ask favours from him?

Wasalaam
.

IQRA!! read!! and learn.........Read about the Battle of Khyber where the Holy Prophet Muhammad pbuh called out to his cousin and son-in-law Hazrat Ali pbuh... "Ya Ali Madad"!!!
The Paak Rasool had the wherewithal and opportunity to call out "Ya Allah Madad" but He chose not to do so. Why?? only god knows... so in your doctrine one should follow what the Holy Prophet did, so it would be fair to say that you should also call upon Hazrat Ali in the time of difficulty....ok? it goes this way........ Ya Ali Madad!!

[porus]

Originally posted by Muslim First:
Why do you call somebody who exposes these teachings a bigot?

One sign of bigot is that he does not know what the 'teaching' is and adopts other bigots' views as his own.

As your fellow Bigot never tires of pointing out, 'I believe in three-horned god'. Now, why don't you go around saying Bohras believe in three-horned god. That will be the extent of your exposure of Bohra beliefs.

You are a Bigot. You will not learn. You are not worth discussing anything with. I hope Ismailies do not respond to you and I hope Sensible Bohras also do not engage in discussions with you and with the other Bigot.

[anajmi]

porus,

I don't think you believe in a three horned god. I think you are a three horned god. A three horned she god. A three horned she god that travels on a cow in case she desires a barbecue.

[anajmi]

Br. Muslim First,

Continue with your posts but try not to engage the tripplehorned she god in a direct conversation. You will get no useful answers from him. Taawilers are distractors. Have you seen tripplehorn answer any of the questions that he asks? He will end his questions with "never mind" but will never answer them. Ask him why the barbecue in heaven was not mentioned in the quran. See if you get a response. This is precisely the reason why I have chosen to deal with him as I have.

[Muslim First]

Turbo:

I do not know which history books you are reading. One which you can very easily find just by goggling “ Battle of Khyber ”
You will find something like this:

The battle
The Jews were caught in surprise at the appearance of the Muslim force. The Prophet asked them to submit. They ridiculed the offer and said that their forts were impregnable, and that they would teach the Muslims bitter lesson. They shut themselves in their forts and the Muslims besieged them. The first battle took place on the fort called Naim. The Muslim force was commanded by Muhammad b Muslimah. The battle was fierce. The Muslim Commander was martyred, but the fort was captured. In the following days they captured other small fortresses. The main fort of the Jews was Qamus, and it was regarded as impregnable. The siege dragged on for twenty-one days, but the Jews held out. The Holy Prophet sent a force under the command of Abu Bakr to overpower the Jews, but the mission did not succeed. The Holy Prophet changed the Commander every day, but the fort proved to be a hard nut to crack. With the failure of successive missions, the Holy Prophet said that the following day he would entrust the command to a person who was the beloved of Allah as well as His Prophet, and who would conquer the fort.The following day when the Muslim forces assembled to lead the attack, all were anxious to know as to who was to have the honor of commanding the Muslim forces, and winning the victory that day. The honor fell to the lot of Ali. The Holy Prophet put the armor on Ali with his own hands. He handed him the standard, and after praying for the victory of the Muslims, the Holy Prophet commanded the Muslims forces to attack the fort in the name of God. As the Muslim forces came close to the fort, the Jew warrior Marhab emerged out of the fort, and challenged Ali to a duel. Marhab also known as Abu Ablit and Antar enjoyed reputation as a great warrior equivalent to a thousand men. Marhab sang the battle song: "I am Abu Ablit; My name is Antar. I am armed to the teeth. My home is Khyber. I am a lion whom none can face. "
Ali accepted the challenge with the battle song: "I am Ali, the lion of God. I fight in the name of God. Be prepared for your doom. He awaits you." The day, Ali appeared to be endowed with unusual extraordinary power. He killed Marhab in no time. Thereafter another Jewish warrior Rabih b Abu Aqiq stepped forward to challenge Ali. Rabih charged at Ali, but he missed the mark. Thereafter Ali charged at his adversary with the speed of lightning and severed his head with the stroke of his sword. Thereafter another Jew warrior stepped forward. He sang as he rushed at Ali: "I am Yasir I am a ferocious lion. None can escape my claws. In reply, Ali said: "O Infidel, your death calls you. I invoke the aid of God and strike the heads of those who come to oppose me " Yasir aimed a blow at Ali, but Ali warded off the blow with great dexterity. Then Ali attacked and Yasir fell dead. The death of three successive Jew warriors unnerved the Jews and they ran back to shut themselves in the fort. Before the Jews could shut the gate of the fort, Ali struck at the gate and uprooted it. Thereafter the Muslim force rushed inside the fort and massacred the Jews who resisted them. Ali performed prodigies of valor and killed a large number of the Jews. The Jews could not withstand the onslaught of the Muslims for long. Soon their resistance broke down and they laid down arms and sued for terms. Thus the fort which was regarded as impregnable fell before the might of Ali. According to legend, Ali exhibited supernatural strength that day and was most ferocious than the fiercest of lions. Verily, he was the "Lion of Allah".
Victor of Khyber
As Ali returned to the Muslim camp, the Holy Prophet went forward to greet him, and hailed him as the Victor of Khyber. There was great rejoicing in the Muslim camp at this great victory.

Do you see anywhere Prophet shouting "Ya Ali Madad"?

See Turbo:

This ‘Ya Ali Madad” Is ismailis made up stuff. It is similar to your Imam Aga Con having extra 10 chapters of Qur’an or this story about Batini perception that Ali RA is superior to Prophet SAW.

Do not answer one folklore with another folklore.

Now learn to say "Ya Allah Madad" instead of "Ya Ali Madad"
.

[Muslim First]

Battle of Khyber

IQRA Bevqoof Turbooch IQRA

[Muslim First]

Br. Porus

As your fellow Bigot never tires of pointing out, 'I believe in three-horned god'.

It is not sure what Bohras or Ismailis believe.

They probably are practicing "Taqiya".

Mulla Burhnuddin still curses 3 despite saying sorry.

Do you really believe that Prophet SAW shouted "Ya Ali Madad" and Ali got out of sick bed and won the battle?

I am sure you have no opinion except calling people Bigots.

Wasalaam
.

[Muslim First]

Br anajmi

AS

IQRA!! read!! and learn.........Read about the Battle of Khyber where the Holy Prophet Muhammad pbuh called out to his cousin and son-in-law Hazrat Ali pbuh... "Ya Ali Madad"!!!

Br. Porus is learned person. Why in the name of fairness he would not correct this thing about Prophet SAW shouting "Ya Ali Madad"?

.

[anajmi]

That is because porus is a bigot. A three horned bigot to boot.

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by Muslim First:
Battle of Khyber

IQRA Bevqoof Turbooch IQRA

Dear Muslimo Fascist,
You sir are an IDIOT! dont give us the edited version from your own Wahhabi archives. and anyway, your article didnt say "Ya Allah Madad" either. The holy Prophet muhammad invoked the Name of Hazrat Ali in many times of difficulties. so you may be pretending to be a muslim, you are nothing more than a dummy.

[Muslim First]

The holy Prophet muhammad invoked the Name of Hazrat Ali in many times of difficulties. so you may be pretending to be a muslim, you are nothing more than a dummy.

Abe Bevqoof. Jub Akkal bahejti thi to chalni lekar khada tha kya?

This is another Ismali lie along with 40 chapter Qur'an, Ali's Kalki Avatar etc. etc.

Prophet SAW never invoked anything except Allah SWT in times of difficulties.

.

[anajmi]

That is the beauty of the Ismaili/Taawili interpretation of the quran. Here we have the prophet who has been chosen by Allah as the best person to deliver the message of the quran. What does the message say?

Iyaaka Na'budu wa Iyaaka Nastaeen.

001.005
YUSUFALI: Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
PICKTHAL: Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.
SHAKIR: Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.

And then when times were difficult these idiots believe the prophet shouted "Ya Ali Madad". Yesterday I was sick and I was shouting "Ya Doctor Madad". Before that, I needed a haircut and I was shouting "Ya Ismaili Madad".

Ofcourse, as far as taawil is concerned, you can ask your dead donkey for help and gifts!!

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by Muslim First:

The holy Prophet muhammad invoked the Name of Hazrat Ali in many times of difficulties. so you may be pretending to be a muslim, you are nothing more than a dummy.

Abe Bevqoof. Jub Akkal bahejti thi to chalni lekar khada tha kya?

This is another Ismali lie along with 40 chapter Qur'an, Ali's Kalki Avatar etc. etc.

Prophet SAW never invoked anything except Allah SWT in times of difficulties.

.

dear Muslimo Fascist,
what do you think the holy Prophet said when he announced that he was going to present someone great??? arrey Soovar Gaddhe, your OWN "narration" here........

Holy Prophet said that the following day he would entrust the command to a person who was the beloved of Allah as well as His Prophet, and who would conquer the fort.The following day when the Muslim forces assembled to lead the attack, all were anxious to know as to who was to have the honor of commanding the Muslim forces, and winning the victory that day. The honor fell to the lot of Ali. The Holy Prophet put the armor on Ali with his own hands. He handed him the standard, and after praying for the victory of the Muslims, the Holy Prophet commanded the Muslims forces to attack the fort in the name of God.

so what did the Paak Rasool say?? i'm sure he didnt send an email or a FAX to Hazrat Ali, he INVOKED Hazrat ALI for help!! are you so stupid? go back to halalifying pigs, you thick retard.

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by Muslim First:

The holy Prophet muhammad invoked the Name of Hazrat Ali in many times of difficulties. so you may be pretending to be a muslim, you are nothing more than a dummy.

Abe Bevqoof. Jub Akkal bahejti thi to chalni lekar khada tha kya?

This is another Ismali lie along with 40 chapter Qur'an, Ali's Kalki Avatar etc. etc.

Prophet SAW never invoked anything except Allah SWT in times of difficulties.

.

dear Muslimo Fascist,
what do you think the holy Prophet said when he announced that he was going to present someone great??? arrey Soovar Gaddhe, your OWN "narration" here........

"Holy Prophet said that the following day he would entrust the command to a person who was the beloved of Allah as well as His Prophet, and who would conquer the fort.The following day when the Muslim forces assembled to lead the attack, all were anxious to know as to who was to have the honor of commanding the Muslim forces, and winning the victory that day. The honor fell to the lot of Ali. The Holy Prophet put the armor on Ali with his own hands. He handed him the standard, and after praying for the victory of the Muslims, the Holy Prophet commanded the Muslims forces to attack the fort in the name of God."

so what did the Paak Rasool say?? i'm sure he didnt send an email or a FAX to Hazrat Ali, he INVOKED Hazrat ALI for help!! are you so stupid? go back to halalifying pigs, you thick retard.

[Muslim First]

Beveqoof

He said

"attack the fort in the name of God."

You will not understand it bacause you are beveqoof

It is

Iyaaka Na'budu wa Iyaaka Nastaeen.

001.005
YUSUFALI: Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
PICKTHAL: Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.
SHAKIR: Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.

Its allah you seek help from not Ali, Muhammad or Aga Con.

It will never sink into your brain.

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by Muslim First:
Beveqoof

He said

"attack the fort in the name of God."

You will not understand it bacause you are beveqoof

It is

Iyaaka Na'budu wa Iyaaka Nastaeen.

001.005
YUSUFALI: Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
PICKTHAL: Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.
SHAKIR: Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.

Its allah you seek help from not Ali, Muhammad or Aga Con.

It will never sink into your brain.

Dear Muslimo Fascist,......and????? how did the Paak rasool summon Hazrat Ali?? You will not understand this because you have a diseased brain, believing and reading about the sahabas insulting the Paak Rasool. how can you sleep at night when you revere BS from your evil sahabas? they attribute to Prophet Muhammad pbuh vile and filthy things? but then again you are a stray dog, the only thing you know is "moo maarna".

[porus]

Dear turbocanuck,

MF has been at the receiving end of education for the best part of 5 years on these fora. Many of us have learnt new things but not MF. No matter what you tell him, it won't go through.

One thing that these bigots are unable to understand is why there is a need for tanzeel if God is nearer to everyone than their jugular veins.

God does not communicate directly but through his messengers. God delivers help primarily through other people. Prophet used other people for help to demonstrate that it is ok to seek help of those one believes is favored by God. Why, Prophet could have just waited for miracle by angels, as some would have us believe happend at the battle of Badr.

But does it ever occur to bigots that, maybe, may be God to Man communication is not just one way through his messengers. We call that mechanism God's waseela. And the man to God communication is also through his devotees. We call that mechanism people's waseela.

Does not Allah say in Quran to obtain Waseela, a means of aproach to Him?

Now that is beyond bigots. They will post to ridicule.

I will not respond to them and I advise you to do the same.

[porus]

Prophet is reported as saying that the best generation of his followers are those who were his contemporaries. Later generations, would not be as good except....

The reason his contemporaries were the best is that they had a living example to follow. However, Prophet did not leave the world before saying that he would leave behind Quran and Ali and his itrat. And that those who stick with them will come close to the first generation of his followers.

Bigots will say Prophet said no such thing. But we are not following the bigots, are we?

[Muslim First]

Br. Porus;

Thanks for kind comments.

Now do you have any comments for the following:

C. THE LARGE PYALI (MUG)

Represents the wasi - a successor to the Prophet who guides and leads the interpretattion of the Law. In this case it refers to the Imam.

From the Zaheri point of view the Imam is regarded lower than the Prophet, but from the Batin, it is the other way around. i.e. the Prophet guides people towards the Imam.

In your view is job of a scholar is to direct a muslim to Imam or to Allah?

I know you do not believe in Allah but you do have opnion.

[Muslim First]

Br. Porus

You would totally agree with Ismaili belief in Qur'an as quoted below;

Quran
From

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... topic&t=88

star_munir
verse of Ginan Momin Chetamani
.4) Eji Joma(n) Joma(n) ma(n)ae ae Narji kahiae

Teni sa(n)kh che aelm mahain,

Chalis sipara Kuran na,

Te mahain tris che duniya mahain. Cheto.....

4) In every Imam it is the same Noor of Ali and the scriptures

bear that out of 40 Siparas (parts) of the Quran are a proof
-----

roxy
History reveals that the standard text of quran was not copied from the original. so if ginan mention that there are 30 siparas (from the 40 siparas) in the standard text of quran then ten siparas appears to be ommited by the people concerned with the standard text of quran.
The name of ali is not included in the quran because the standard text of quran is by the enemies of god. I am saying the standard text of quran is by the enemies of god because quran reveals that there was an authority and despite there being an authority abu baker, uman and usman elected themselves one after the other and the quran was from their side. The enemies felt the need not to hide the essence of ismaili tariqah because the majority of the people knew about the messages which conveyed about lord is god, he is manifest and hidden, etc. etc.
Yes, Allah kept the 10 paras of Quran with him. Any Muslim can tell you that. Imam SMS has farman that those 10 paras have been explained by Pir Sadardeen in his Ruhani Ginans.

Imam Aly Shah has made a Farman that the essence of Quran Pir Sadardeen has given us in his Ruhani Ginans and the skin and bones have been left for dogs.

Imam and the true Kitabullah (the 10 paras) are with the Imam and will always stay with the Imam. The Kitab Rasulillah spoke about in his vasihat was this one, not the Usman ki kitab that they said was enough for them when Mowla Aly took this Kitabullah to them in the Masjid after Rasulillahs death.

KIM farman number 20 dated 31-12-1893 starts on the last line of page 63 and goes on to the end of the farman.

Any comments?

[Muslim First]

The following are my personal beliefs.

Kitabullah is Allah's Kitab so why should it not be with Allah.

He is the only one that knows the real meaning in his own Book.

The word Quran comes from Iqra which means "To read"

Kitabullah is where the current Quran came from.

Kitabullah is with the Imam-E- Zamaan and will always be with him as it is his Kitab.

Therefore when ever you see the word Kitab in the Quran remember that it is referring to this Kitabullah and not the Quran that is printed and read all over the world.

This a very very common mistake committed all over the world.

This misunderstanding is what divided Islam in the first place.

Ya Aly Madad

shams

Also read

Is Quran complete?

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... ight=quran

[Muslim First]

From: http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... 01&start=0
shamsu
Joined: 15 Apr 2003
Posts: 619, Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 1:24 pm Post subject: Imam=Allah
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ya Aly Madad,
Allah says He is Zahir. I think that is Him as Imam
but He also says that He is Batin. I think this means him as Nur.
Now the question is, can this be true that ZAHIR=BATIN?
49th Imam Shah Karim Farman (salwat) "He is above all else"
What is above "all" else by definition has to to be above creation.
The fact that there is a creation indicates that there is a creator.
Allah says he is Khaliq which means Creator.
Now if Allah is the creator that limits him to an act of creation (even though it is a perpetual act)
I think the creator is Allah as Imam.
Now look at the name AS-SAMAD which means he is independent of all.
Is not a creator tied to creation? (Perpetually connected to the act of creation)
Mowla Aly has Farman which states that Allah is above imagination. 49th Imam states "He who is above the human mind" "... above the human Intellect".
Trying to discuss this is a waste of time as clearly Allah is unknowable according to Mowla Aly's Farman.

The closest we can ever be to him in this world is to follow the Farmans of Hazir Imam and stay devoted to him until he decides it is time for us to enter the next world.

One thing is for sure that his Nur is in everyone including kandani and roxy. If we can be aware of this at all times, I think we will never make the mistake of disrespecting Allah.
Ya Aly Madad
-----
roxy

Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 95
Yes Allah/mawlana hazar imam is unlimited and all that.

Mawlana hazar imam's farman is he is nearer to us than our vein. However, this is purely in a non-physical sense. You will find similar message in the quran besides the message that Lord is Allah.
-------
Roxy
Posts: 95
Dua also reveal:

Seek at the time of difficulties, the help of your Mawla the present living Shah Karim al-Hussaini.

Contents of Farman Mubarak of Mawlana Hazar Imam - Karachi - Salgirah Darbar - 13th December, 1964.

-----
You have looked to the Imam of the Age for advice and help in all matters; and through your Imam's immense love and affection for his spiritual children, his Noor has indicated to you where and in which direction you must turn, so as to obtain spiritual and worldly satisfaction.

Dua/Quran clearly mention one should worship and seek help from Allah only and the farman also makes it clear that ismailis look to mawlana hazar imam for advice and help in all mattes. So mawlana hazar imam is allah. Farman also reveal that the Noor is his (Mawlana Hazar Imam's).

.

[Muslim First]

Br. Porus

You must be convinced that Hazar Imam is Allah.

[turbocanuck]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Muslim First:
[QB]Br. Porus;

Thanks for kind comments.

Dear Muslimo Fascist, What???? you dont get it do you? porus tore you apart and YOU thought he had kind words for you? You are exactly the reason why the world of Muslims is in such a disarray, you illiterate buffoon. Sorry brother Porus, just couldnt resist this.................LOL

[turbocanuck]

Br Porus, this donkey keeps on posting from ismaili.net, which HE thinks is an official Ismaili site. He continues to post OPINIONS from ordinary people thinking it is GOSPEL!! MF is a very desperate self hating man. He is of a very limited sense of intelligence, and continues to bark irrelevance.

[anajmi]

There is a difference between waseela and worship. I ask my mother to pray for me and my children all the time. But no one will be able to confuse that act of mine with worshipping my mother. I have never once shouted "Ya Ma Madad". Hazrat Ali worshippers have obscured the line that exists between the two.

Tripplehorn has chosen turbocrap as his means of communication with the bigots. "Ya turbocrap madad".