Qardan Hasana scheme

[Aarif]

Recently someone forwarded this link to me.

http://www.anjuman-e-burhani.org/qardanhasana.htm

This link leads to a form that one needs to fill if he/she wants financial help from our community. I was surprised by the amount of details that they have managed to put in this form. Kothar has made it 100% bullet-proof to make sure that you pay back all the money that you take from them on time. The point to think about is that while collecting money from us Kothar does not bother to give a proper reason or reciept most of the times. However, while giving back part of our own money they play so many tantrums. This form is really pathetic and ensures in keeping the needy mumineen as far as possible from coming forward and respectfully asking for any financial help whatsoever.

This form clearly tells us that the Kotharis will give a run for their money even to those evil jamindars of rural India who would suck the last drop of blood of the poor people and give them nothing in return.

[Al Zulfiqar]

so whats new???....

[Aarif]

Nothing new as usual the sky is blue unless its raining

I found the form pretty detailed and meticulous and that's why posted the link.

[anajmi]

Here is the paradox

The Guarantor agrees and hereby unconditionally authorizes the Anjuman to deposit for collection and payment the installment checks given by the Guarantor upon the Borrower's default in repayment of the Qardan Hasanah either by non-payment of any one installment or by dishonor of any one installment check given by the Borrower.

If the loan is classified as Qardan Hasanah, there can be no repayment clause. If repayment is involved, then it is simply an interest free ordinary loan. Can some experts on quran, throw some light on what is qarde hasanah? According to my understanding the repayment of qarde hasanah is to be expected from Allah in the hereafter.

[Aarif]

Good one Br. Anajmi. This is the kind of discussion I was expecting. I am sure not many people on this site have seen this form before. This would be the best time to take a look at it and discuss.

[Aarif]

According to my understanding the repayment of qarde hasanah is to be expected from Allah in the hereafter.

This is what the Kothar tells people while collecting money from them. But while lending money they expect the borrower to pay as allah is invisible and not accessible.

[Fatwa Banker]

Hey, its "Interest Free" Islamic banking at its best...

Say, does anyone have access to the Wahabi version of this loan application ? Like the one that a poor Saudi may sign with an Islamic bank if he only has 2 Sheep to his name ?

[Danish]

Qarze Hasana, in my understanding, means "debt of treasure". In other words, loan of any kind owned by a borrower/receiver in compliance of a "promisory note", such as issed via a written Deed or trusted by Words (word of mouth). The loan can be either of financial or non-financial nature and can be interest-based, interest-free, collateralized or gifted as in charity. I believe Qarze Hasana should be judged and administered on a case by case situation.

Quranic chapter 2 verses 267-284 are worth reflecting upon.

[Maqbool]

One thing is sure that if repayment security is not asked, the scheme will come to standstill since most of the bohras mentality is to grab others money. Only change here requires is to change the name of the scheme to interest free loan from Karden Hasanah

[anajmi]

The ayahs 2:267-284 do not deal with Qarde Hasanah.

[like_minded]

Last year, when the old man was here (bangalore), he claimed to have donated several crores to the local Jamat for uplifment of needy bohras.

Well... how many down-trodden bohras got the benefit, is a million dollar question!!!

In one case, a needy approached the jamaat, he was asked to pledge gold in return for the amount he was seeking, as he could not, he was kicked on his back side and thrown out!!

In short, all kothari schemes SUCK!! They are simply out their to loot/amass community wealth and enslave the community members. Live like kings and enjoy all worldly pleasures including alcohol and women.

[Al Zulfiqar]

as per the announcements alone made by the present syedna and his evil father, it would amount to a couple of hundred crores in contributions! not a single paisa of it has been seen anywhere.. it is all hogwash!

it is the sign of the stupidity of the taheris that they swallow these lies and come back suitably awed. no one then follows up to ask the question of where is the money?

the ex-syedna was a conman par excellence and his son has inherited that talent.

[Aarif]

Maqbool,

Have you read the form?? In this form the Guaranters are also required to give post dated checks just in case if the borrower fails to pay for some reason. Not only that both the Guaranters are required to give post dated checks along with borrower which means triple surity of getting the money back. How many bohras will give post dated checks for someone else? Even I understand that some people will misuse the money. But that can easily be found out by scrutinizing the borrower's credentials and making sure that the money is borrowed for right cause.

the scheme will come to standstill since most of the bohras mentality is to grab others money.

This is the true definition of Kothar. Believe me they are also bohras. And they will grab all the money you have whether you like it or not. They will also take away your clothes and undies. After that if they are still not satisfied they will squeeze your balls. People like you deserve Kothar.. Even Allah cannot help you.

Fatwa Banker,

I was wondering why Anazmi always calls you Fart Bank. After reading your post on this thread I have no doubt whatsoever that u r a FB (u know what I mean)

[Al Zulfiqar]

Originally posted by Aareef:
Nothing new as usual the sky is blue unless its raining

I found the form pretty detailed and meticulous and that's why posted the link.

aareef,

what i meant is why do u get so excited on discovering some new facts on how crooked the kothar is. this form or scheme and various other schemes in the past several decades, were/are all aimed to defraud and loot a gullible community and exploit their faith in their deen and their syedna... that is why i asked what is new?

this is all old stuff for us who have been observing these conmen at work since last 5-6 decades.. the kothar and syedna in my books are nothing but 'ALI BABA ANE CHAALIS CHOR'...!!!!

[Aarif]

Br. AZ,

I apologize if I have offended you in any way. I do understand that you are well aware of these Kothari schemes. However, it was for the interest of other readers like me who saw this piece of crap for the first time. Hope you get my point..

[Aarif]

Here is another URL on this same site. Take a look at it. Its really very funny (Nothing to do with Qarden Hasana but really funny)

http://www.anjuman-e-burhani.org/mumine ... ctory.aspx

These bohra sites are pretty entertaining I must say.

[Fatwa Banker]

Originally posted by Aareef:
Maqbool,

I was wondering why Anazmi always calls you Fart Bank. After reading your post on this thread I have no doubt whatsoever that u r a FB (u know what I mean)

Crystal clear....blind followers have much in common .....regardless of faith

[anajmi]

Fart Bank,

Actually, it has more to do with the nose, if you know what I mean. Blind followers can still smell shit from far away

[Aarif]

blind followers have much in common .....regardless of faith

One more huge stinker from the famous Fart Bank which is equivalent to one million (U know what)

[Fatwa Banker]

I will not bust this Aareef / Amajmi Love Fest..

Have at it....

[anajmi]

Considering the fact that you are in the middle of Aareef and Anajmi .....

[Aarif]

I will not bust this Aareef / Amajmi Love Fest..

Oops!! Someone farted again.

[seeker110]

Any scheme kothar comes up is for their own good.A few of the inside guys borrow and show all the barakats associated with it.Now when a sheeple trys to get in,he discloses all his personal info to the kotharies.They know have all your assets and your personal info.The sheeple is in the right spot to be exploited.
Lets suppose you get the loan.In a year or two you pay it back with hefty payments,once you are done with that they can know come back and ask you to pay for all the masjid schemes and other projects.You have cornered yourself by showing a monthly payment who can bear.
Fool and his money........
Every person has a credit card.If you keep a neg. ballance of $100.00 you are a karazdar.Dont need to give them anything.Use the money to help the needy.Help someone in your own community.Pick up the tab for a poor girls wedding.The joy you will recieve will be enough to put a smile on your face for a life time.
Never do a good deed because of what you will earn in sawab.Do it because its the right thing to do.You dont keep account of your prayers etc.Who do you Know personally that has ever been able to cashout.There are no guaranties of sawab that has been earned.If it was a done deal why do you pray for qabool-e-namaz etc.Get your returns know.See the happy child that recieved the benefit of your generosity.If it makes your heart rejoice it is probably all the reward you need.
Only write the check when you want to,not when someone asked you to.
Kothars shop has empty shelves,you dont get out of the store with any bags but your wallet sure gets lighter.

[Aarif]

Nice post br. Seeker110.

I think this QH scheme form should be sent to all the bohris accross the world. This form will act as an eye opener for many who always use this QH scheme as a trump card when anybody writes anything against kothar. People will say ke "Apnaa maula ni shaan toh dekho. Mumineen ni madat maate QH scheme nikali che. blah blah blah"

[mumineen]

From:

Ashar Vasanwala: asgharf@roadrunner.com,

a social activist and a non-denominational community volunteer from the USA !

"Qardan Hasanah's real meaning is: A goodly loan, without any conditions attached, without any interest, to be repaid as and when the debtor is able to repay it"

Now look at some of the Bohri's Anjumn-e-BAdri NY's non-Islamic conditions for the same. Looks like what a commercial bank would do. But so sorry, the Kotharis even forbid their sheep to even work for a bank or an insurance establishment!!!!!

1. Application Form duly completed and signed.

2. Varaqat ut-Tarkhees (Safai Chitti) of applicant and each guarantor.

3. Written consent of at least two momineen to be guarantors.

4. Last two years tax returns of applicant.

5. In case of mortgage pay-off, please provide a pay-off statement from the
Bank.

6. In case of business need, please provide (i) business details and plan,
(ii) last two years financial statements and (iii) last two years tax
returns of existing business and of individual applicant.

7. 20 percent collateral in the form of gold jewelry (appraised by an
approved appraiser).

8. Personal appearance by the applicant and each guarantor before the Qardan
Hasanah committee.

9. Such other requirements as may be requested by the Qardan Hasanah
committee.

10. Please note that if your application is approved, it will be subject to
the following conditions among others:

(a) The applicant and each guarantor signing all required documents.

(b) The applicant providing post dated checks for all the installment
payments covering the entire Qardan Hasana amount.

(c) Each guarantor providing post dated checks for the amount of Qardan
Hasana Guaranteed.

Note: the "safai chitti" is now renamed "Varaqat ut-Tarkhees". The Kotharis want us to convert by stealth into Arabs. Alas, what will happen to their "komi zabaan" sorry in Arabic "lisan-e-dawat"?

[Al Zulfiqar]

sorry its not just our zabaan, but the kotharis seem to nurture the illusion that the dai and by extension all bohras are somehow yemeni arabs, because our sect came from yemen to hind.

thus all the attempts to insert arabic words into our lisane daawat - often making a complete mockery of the way in which they are used. the vigorous attempts to give arabic names to new borns, names like taaha, mustafa, mufaddal etc. all the previous names like rukhsana, asif, shoeb and so on, names with persian origins etc are being frowned on and changed when u meet the syedna for kadambosi. the concerted efforts to discontinue centuries old traditions and customs which are purely socio-cultural and converting them to arabicised rituals...all these are somehow laughable delusions to make us believe that we are pure-bred arabs and that the dai and his family are as if some divine arabs descended from the prophet!

even the new fangled dress we wear is a pathetic attempt to elevate us into some sort of angels who have condescended to inhabit this earth! in fact this whole taheri deen is a deliberate and elaborate hogwash, a clever fabric woven to bamboozle the ignorant and gullible taheris along with the rest of the world into believing we are of noble blood and the syedna and his leach family are of blue-blooded stock and thus to suck our life out of us and subjugate us into brainless fools.

it is unfortunate that 99.9999% of the taheris dont even know what is the hidden game going on behind the scenes, what is the larger picture and how they are being used and exploited. what are the levels at which the kothar operates and the massive sums involved. even the qardan hassana schemes are an elaborate plot to launder money and convert black money into white. all the huge sums of cash and valuables they receive are laundered at various points throughout the world and then used in legitimate investments, stocks, bonds, shares, projects and businesses. these opportunities are identified, studied and implemented by several dozen high powered and qualified paid employees working for the kothar in mumbai and elswehere. these are all non-bohras and non-muslims who are paid enormous salaries and perks, all hidden from the community. there are also secret low profile public relations experts advising the kothar on how to manipulate the media and where to spend their dollars, how to use lobbying and special interest groups, like the israelis do in washington and europe, and generally securing easy passage for him and his family all around the globe, which politicians and goondas to bribe, which key decision makers to suck up to, and so on and so forth...

the syedna is only a pleasant facade of this evil corporation and religion is its USP, merely a tool to generate vast revenues. allah, muhammed, ali, hussain. imam... are but convenient titles to pay lip service to, but key weapons in their arsenal as tear-jerkers in order to loot and plunder a sleeping community. these great islamic figures are too distant and long gone to come back and complain about the blatant misuse of their name.

such is this syedna and his evil family and such is this ignorant and gullible community. while the few reformists protest feebly, the kothar counts its notes and daily take, least bothered about the few bug bites. unless the community as a whole wakes up, the kothar will make merry.

[neutralbohri]

it is unfortunate that 99.9999% of the taheris dont even know what is the hidden game going on behind the scenes, what is the larger picture and how they are being used and exploited. what are the levels at which the kothar operates and the massive sums involved. even the qardan hassana schemes are an elaborate plot to launder money and convert black money into white. all the huge sums of cash and valuables they receive are laundered at various points throughout the world and then used in legitimate investments, stocks, bonds, shares, projects and businesses.[/QB]

Brother Zulfiqar, This is very very true. You have aptly summed it up.

[Danish]

Karze Hasana is not a charity because the word kard or karz means debt (as in loan acquired for repayment), hence some of the points mentioned above are quite relevant other than points 7, 10(b) & 10(c), although the loan can be "charged off" over time as in good faith or charity IF need arises. One cannot expect giving loans to any Tom, Dick and Harry and call it quits without any account.

[Aarif]

Danish,

You are talking about Syedna version of Qarda Hasana. But as mentioned by Ananjmi earlier this is what Quran says about it:

QARDAN HASANA: "A beautiful loan" (to Allah Ta’ala). Spending in the cause of Allah Ta’ala is described by Allah Ta’ala Himself as "a beautiful loan" because it entails self-denial for the sake of Allah Ta’ala. It is for this reason that Allah has promised a rich reward for those who expand their wealth in His Path. See Holy Qur’an, Al-Baqara (2):245, Al-Hadid (57):11,18.

[Danish]

Aareef, when one takes the verse 2:245 for kardan hasana to mean "beautiful loan" literally from an Islmaic point of view, then it has its bearings and conditions (as explained earlier), but when taken metaphorically, then it has nothing to do with wealth or financial aid. Besides, the "beautiful loan" is directed towards God, not humans; if one can reflect and understand its gist.