Wahhabism

[Muslim First]

Br. Porus
AS

I love to read it.

AS far as Umma is concerned, I do not know if they know Zahiri meaning.

I have read various translations and tafseers. Ibn Kathir is suppose to explain Ayas with other ayas from Qur'an or Hadiths or explainations from Sahabas. By its own admission it employes some less than Shahih Ahadith.
There are various translations which provide notes.

Wasalaam
.

[Muslim First]

Br. Khan

It will take long time to respond your posts. I will do my best.

Ismaili.net is not an official site,

Why does not MHI disown Ismaili.net. As far as I am concerned this is only window to Agakhani mind set and what happens behind JK's closed door.

I know a Sunni guy and according to his belief Ganesh is among one of the big prophets.

then he is not Muslim. there is no prophet with elephent head in Islam.

I have seen on TV News that Salman Khan (a Sunni guy) praying to Ganesh.

He is secular Muslim and free to do anything he wants. A Muslim does not pray to Ganesh.

Now as per your logic I should conclude that According to Sunni Quran, Ganesh is very big prophet and praying Ganesh everyday is Must as per Quran and Sunni doctrines

Wow what a leap of logic. Do not put words in my mouth.

In Sunnis there is no centralized religious authority, but in all Shia groups we do have centralized religious authority. And in the matter of religion they have the final say.

Qur'an and Sunnah is final authority. If a Muslim Scholar says somthing which is not per Qur'an or Sunnah then it is not part of Islam.

Rather what you are doing is going to some idiots website like Ismaili.net or some anti-shia websites to gain knowledge (loop holes in the belives).

You should post this comment on Ismaili.net and call them idiots.

For them Ali is a source of knowledge and energy

For human being food,air, sunlight etc. is source of energy. Qur'an and prayers in prophetic way are spiritual energy

So when Shia says Ali was with every Prophet they don’t mean that Ali was born with Adam and now his age is some millions of years. Same thing when they say Ali is on this earth from the beginning.

To understand Ali you need to understand the concept of Imam. If you really want to know the truth, learn this from any authority website or book. Otherwise you go to Ismaili.net and satisfy yourself by reading some posts from some idiots. But then you will never learn the Truth.

That is Ali Worship. I hope they get back to Allah Worship as shown by out Prophet SAW

Ali is source of inspiration
Allah, His book and his Prophet is source of inspiration.
Ali is a way to Allah
Qur'an, Sunnah and Ibaadat as per prophetic way is way to Allah
Ali is the sign of Allah
So is earth, moon, stars, nature, universe etc. etc.
Ali is the Light of Allah
Ali is spiritual Guru
Ali is a teacher.
Ali is a Guide to Allah
That is propblem with shiasm. Ali RA is elevated to Taghut and worshipped.

Wasalaam
.

[Muslim First]

To understand Ali you need to understand the concept of Imam

Please post Concept of Imam as per Qura'n and Sunnah of Prophet. No esoteric dribble.

[Muslim First]

To understand Ali

I am still trying to learn and understand Qur'an and Prophet SAW and that will take me lifetime.

[porus]

Muhammad Khan,

Please stick to Wahhabism. Do not let MF and other Wahhabis to set you off in their anti-Shia crusade.

We all know what Wahhabis think of the Shia. And they will not change their attitude. Best pollicy is not to defend your views but to attack theirs.

[Gursevak]

If a Muslim Scholar says somthing which is not per Qur'an or Sunnah then it is not part of Islam.

Then why do you need scholars - surely the Quran and Sunnah has not cahnged for 1400 years

[Gursevak]

If I knew 'Baatin' of Qur'an, I would definately write and talk about it. After all it is Allah's knowledge.

I Allah wanted all to know about the batin why not put it in the quran in the first place - simple.

[Muslim First]

Please stick to Wahhabism. Do not let MF and other Wahhabis to set you off in their anti-Shia crusade.

Please do.
Rest assured. There is no such crusade

We all know what Wahhabis think of the Shia. And they will not change their attitude. Best pollicy is not to defend your views but to attack theirs.

I do not know if Wahabis have banned shia from anything in SA.
Why attack? We can have debate.

BTW Khans defence of Shiasm was not very good. I get impression from it is that Shiasm is all ALI ALI ALI ALI ALI ALI.

Lets get back to wahabism. Ball is in your court.

Wasalaam
.

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by Muslim First:

Please stick to Wahhabism. Do not let MF and other Wahhabis to set you off in their anti-Shia crusade.

Rest assured. There is no such crusade

I do not know if Wahabis have banned shia from anything in SA.
Why attack? We can have debate.

Lets get back to wahabism. Ball is in your court.

Wasalaam
.

Wow!! Insane First must be living in some Godforsaken Cave of Tora Bora if he doesnt know that The Wahhabis of SAUDI ARABIA have been murdering and Massacring Shias FOR Generations!!
Or wait...........Yep!! He is an apologist for the Wahhabi retards who preach killing.


http://www.organiser.org/28may2000/waha.html

[Danish]

Originally posted by Muslim First:
Qur'an and Sunnah is final authority. If a Muslim Scholar says somthing which is not per Qur'an or Sunnah then it is not part of Islam.

MF, no offense but such statements are seriously and logically damaging and counter productive to intelligence.

[pardesi]

Originally posted by Muslim First:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know a Sunni guy and according to his belief Ganesh is among one of the big prophets.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

then he is not Muslim. there is no prophet with elephent head in Islam.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have seen on TV News that Salman Khan (a Sunni guy) praying to Ganesh.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He is secular Muslim and free to do anything he wants. A Muslim does not pray to Ganesh.

So according to your Wahabi twisted logic the guy is not a muslim for having belief that Ganesh was a Prophet of his time?

First, do Wahabi's have a list of 124000 prophets with dates of their presence on earth and whereabouts? Second, would you consider his prophecy if we put a man's face on him? Thirdly, in the books of history and all the books of revelation, including Quran, and what we hear or read in other books, there is mention of no more than 80-100 prophets. What is the Wahabi stand on this. The figure of 124000 is inflated?
Remember, you have to believe in "all" the prophets to be a muslim, am I right?

Then you twist your twisted logic again by saying the guy is a secular muslim and is "FREE" to do anything he wants????

[Muslim First]

First, do Wahabi's have a list of 124000 prophets with dates of their presence on earth and whereabouts?

I am sure Agakhins have lost of 124000 prophets and dates.
.

[Muslim First]

Then you twist your twisted logic again by saying the guy is a secular muslim and is "FREE" to do anything he wants????

Anybody can call himself Muslim and do whatever he wants to do, including own and breed horses on which people place bets, own hotels where gambling and drinks are served etc. etc.

Lets not play old tunes over and over again.

stick to wahabism. If you have defination of Wahabism from a Wahabi then post it.

.

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by Muslim First:

Then you twist your twisted logic again by saying the guy is a secular muslim and is "FREE" to do anything he wants????

Anybody can call himself Muslim and do whatever he wants to do, including own and breed horses on which people place bets, own hotels where gambling and drinks are served etc. etc.

Lets not play old tunes over and over again.

stick to wahabism.

.

Stick to Wahhabism??? what an idiot!

"Quoted by MF"
I am sure Agakhins have lost of 124000 prophets and dates.

Old tricks..........when cornered, lash out.

[Muslim First]

Correction;

I am sure Agakhins have lost of 124000 prophets and dates.

Should read

I am sure Agakhins have list of 124000 prophets and dates of their existance.

[pardesi]

Originally posted by MF:

"I am sure Agakhins have list of 124000 prophets and dates of their existance."

Thats not the answer I was looking for MF. We are talking about Wahhabi belief on the number of prophets and their names and dates of their existence. Now I take it as the Wahhabis have no knowledge of the actual number, just like everyone else and therefore it would tantamount to a sin for calling someone not a prophet only on the basis of our limited knowledge of human history. Allah did say that he sent messengers to every nation until the time of Prophet Mohammad. Ganesh may or may not have been a prophet/messenger to his people but since I do not know I would definitely not rule him out. If he was, good and if not, still good.

Now I was reading your post again where you said that "He is secular Muslim and free to do anything he wants. A Muslim does not pray to Ganesh." and realised that you were actually saying that a secular muslim is not considered a muslim and therefore can do anything he wants to.
Now thats a typical Wahhabi idealogy.

You also said:

"stick to wahabism. If you have defination of Wahabism from a Wahabi then post it."

See the problem is that you Wahhabis hide behind the veil of Salaf and never call yourself Wahhabis. It is incorporation of Abdul Wahhab's idealogy into the salafi thought that makes a follower a Wahhabi, am I right? So where the hell are we going to get a "definition of Wahhabi from a Wahhabi". It is the actions, thought process and style as observed and experienced by others that defines the Wahhabis.

You for justifying and standing up to their ways, are my brother, a Wahhabi. Unless you have some more bs to throw at us on this board. Your sidekick has already declared Wahhabis as idiots. Would you too, please.

Here is a link for you. See it for yourself. Wahhabis exposed. I got sick after 15 minutes of watching. Didn't have the heart to go any further with that. Cant believe we have people preaching this in the mosques.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sowX5j2-i4I

[Muslim First]

Br. Pardesi
Ya Allah Madad

Ganesh may or may not have been a prophet/messenger to his people but since I do not know I would definitely not rule him out.

Let me assure you that there was no Prophet with elephent's head in Islam. It is not naturally possible for human to have elephent's head. For agakhani's everything is possible.
.

[Muslim First]

See the problem is that you Wahhabis hide behind the veil of Salaf and never call yourself Wahhabis.

You can call me anything you want. I am a Muslim and believe in 5 pillers and 6 beliefs. Period.
.

[Gursevak]

and if you were to have a cardinal belief would that be to kill all non-muslims. You wahhabis are criminals who hide behind the veil of faith.thank allah there are ordinary sunnis and all shias to redress the balance somewhat

[turbocanuck]

Dummy first will also say that Angel Gabriel never had any wings, nor was Prophet Adam 90 ft tall!! i dont know.....it says so in some hadiths that Angel gabriel had approx. 600 wings, and Prophet Adam was 90 ft tall. Hey MF, are you calling the companions of the Holy Prophet liars??

[porus]

Buraq is a "fabulous" figure in islam. It is supposed to have carried Prophet during Meraj. Here is an excerpt about meraj in Bikhari.

Volume 5, Book 58, Number 227:
Narrated Abbas bin Malik:

Malik bin Sasaa said that Allah's Apostle described to them his Night Journey saying, "While I was lying in Al-Hatim or Al-Hijr, suddenly someone came to me and cut my body open from here to here." I asked Al-Jarud who was by my side, "What does he mean?" He said, "It means from his throat to his pubic area," or said, "From the top of the chest." The Prophet further said, "He then took out my heart. Then a gold tray of Belief was brought to me and my heart was washed and was filled (with Belief) and then returned to its original place. Then a white animal which was smaller than a mule and bigger than a donkey was brought to me." (On this Al-Jarud asked, "Was it the Buraq, O Abu Hamza?" I (i.e. Anas) replied in the affirmative). The Prophet said, "The animal's step (was so wide that it) reached the farthest point within the reach of the animal's sight. I was carried on it, and Gabriel set out with me till we reached the nearest heaven.

Full hadith is here:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamental ... 05.058.227

In popular Islam, buraq is portrayed as a horse with a woman's face and wings.

I invite Muslim First to reject the hadith as a lie, and disown any reference to buraq.

[Muslim First]

.
Br. Porus
AS

Did anybody except Prophet SAW saw Buraq? Therefore if he described it then I have no problem accepting it.

Prophets were human being. Ganesh could not be prophet since he had head of elephant. He is a deity for people of Hindu faith.
.

[porus]

Who said Ganesha was a human being?

The point is if it is acceptable that Prophet had his body torn and his heart taken out and washed in 'belief' and then he rode on the Buraq, why is it not acceptable that Ganesha had an elephant had transplanted on him?

My fantasy is better than yours, eh?

[pardesi]

....why is it not acceptable that Ganesha had an elephant head transplanted on him

Porus,

"acceptable" is farthest from a Wahhabi mindset. I think "possible" would be a more appealing word here.

I have another question. Since Allah declared that He sent messengers to every people/nation, you think the animal kingdom had a messenger too? Same goes for the aqua world. Hindus do believe in "machha avatar" etc. Maybe Ganesha was in transition from animal kingdom to human? No fun intended, my apologies in advance to any Hindu believer here.

How about pre-Adam era? Is it possible that all these Hindu gods were from that era?

[Muslim First]

you think the animal kingdom had a messenger too? Same goes for the aqua world. Hindus do believe in "machha avatar" etc. Maybe Ganesha was in transition from animal kingdom to human? No fun intended, my apologies in advance to any Hindu believer here.

If Animals of land and sea were able to earn then Agakhanis would include their Gods as their Gods also. Its all matter of ability to pa 12.5%. Ore the marrier.

[Muslim First]

Correction

If Animals of land and sea were able to earn then Agakhanis would include their Gods as Agakhani Gods also. It’s all matter of ability to pay 12.5%. More the merrier.

[Gursevak]

MF - even after the correction ur message makes no sense - can u go back to ur paymasters and ask them to redraft in English we cam all understand?

[pardesi]

Originally posted by Gursevak:
MF - even after the correction ur message makes no sense - can u go back to ur paymasters and ask them to redraft in English we cam all understand?

Muslim First, or whoever you are,

This can't be the same Muslim First we are used to dealing with. He has a little more sense than this as well as writing skills. If you are filling in for the "real" Muslim First, then I suggest you disappear as your intellect level is way lower than that Wahhabi we are used to.

Understand the topic under discussion first then come back. Do you know that the insects, flying or crawling, birds and animals have recognized their Lord and pray but humans understand not? Do you disagree?

[muhammad khan]

Dear MF,

I strongly believe that you are a very good Muslim. 3171 posts shows the love you have for Allah subhanatallah and his last prophet (peace be upon him).

What you are doing is what we Shia call Ibadat. You are in sreach of Truth. You are ready to turn every stone to learn that truth. That is what I call True Muslim Sprit.

I pray that one day you will find the Light and when you will find it you will not have any doubts. Like you I am in search of truth. Truth which I find might be very different that the Truth which you will find. But I a sure both of our truths will be from the same Allah. (http://amminadab.com/temple/islamic/elephant.htm)

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by pardesi:

Muslim First, or whoever you are,
This can't be the same Muslim First we are used to dealing with. He has a little more sense than this as well as writing skills. If you are filling in for the "real" Muslim First, then I suggest you disappear as your intellect level is way lower than that Wahhabi[/QB][/QUOTE]

Dispatched as required from the "assembly" line....... (more where they came from)