Aga Khani Ismailis

[Abdul Noor]

Do the Bohra consider the Aga Khan Ismailis to be Muslims? My Great Uncle was a Ismaili Shaykh and he said the five pillars were now gone - he said fasting is not fard, salat is to do the Aga Khan du'a 3 times a day, Hajj is to visit the Aga Khan, etc. He said that Hijab is no longer fard, you can pray without covering the 'awrah, you shouldn't pray to the qibla, he believed in reincarnation as well. I have also heard that Aga Khan is the reincarnation of Imam Ali who is also the reincarnation of Allah. Aga Khan will take whoever he wants to paradise on the Day of Judgememt and whoever he wants to hell. And you should pay him money to get your sins forgiven.

This does not sound like Islam at all! But unfortunately my Great Uncle died and he believed this so we can only hope he gave up believing it in his last moments - wa Allahu 'Alam.

I was wondering whenever people say "Ismailis" they think of these people instead of the Bohras. The Bohras pray and fast and everything. So do the Bohras even consider these Ismailis to be Ismailis, or Shi'a let alone Muslim?

[tahir]

Do the Bohra consider the Aga Khan Ismailis to be Muslims?

For all practical purposes, Bohras dont consider even themselves as muslims. Besides, they are too firmly fixed in their well to even try to look at other communities. A majority of bohras might not be even knowing who are Aga Khani Ismailis.

[mumineen]

Abdul Noor sounds very much like "Maherally" who became a Sunni after leaving the Aga Khan fold as a leader (Mukhi)

[Abdul Noor]

No - I am a Sunni yes and the only reason I am asking these questions is that all i've seen my whole life under the name Ismaili has been what I am telling you. I have much Ismaili family members and after I saw what the Bohras believe and how they are so much closer to us than the Aga Khan people I was very impressed.

The Bohra actually came into my city in Syria in 88 and built a mosque. No Ismaili Aga Khanis prayed in it because they don't pray in a mosque. The Bohra then just left and went back to Yemen and now Sunnis pray in the mosque.

[anajmi]

Finally the mosque has been put to some good use alhumdulillah.

[Musafir]

Mumineen, Abdul Noor.

Firstly Mumineen, I don't know you are the same as africawala, you both brings Amir Merali's name on this board whenever sombody post an opinion about the Aga Khan, the Hazar Imam. If you go to Jamat Khana across the Canada, you will find these question in the mind of this new generation. Those questions are raised by everybody and I am one of them too. Recently in Calgary Jamat Khana a missionary Kamaluddin delivered a Waaz in Jamat khana on the topic of nijat and he all the way used the words Allah, then he was critcized by the locals. He didn't talk about the Mowlana Hazar Imam.

Second, Abdul Noor there is no clear instructions from the Imam that what to replace for what, this is the every day saying amongst the Ismailies that why should we pray five times and why we go for hajj and why we pay zakat and they replace it for Dua, Jamat khana and Dasond respectively.

Ismailies doesn't believe in reincarnation, it is in the ginans (poetry of Pirs) that 7 awtar, because they were preaching to Hindus. Aga khan I guess even not aware of half of the rituals of our jamat. Afghani Ismailies even don't know about the ginan until they moved to Pakistan and Canada. One school of thought in Ismaili believes that Ginan (poetry of Pirs) is the translation of Quran in Sanskrit language and transform into poetry by pir Hasan Kabir, Shams Tabrez and Pir Sadardin.

[way2heaven]

salam to all posters,
i guess everyone has a freedom n right to speak..but unless we know ISLAM or neother FAITH or religion perfectly, we should not preach it to others or give ne provocative comments.

was-salam.
way2heaven.

[anajmi]

way2heaven,

The prophet started preaching as soon as he got the first ayah of the quran. He did not wait for the entire quran to be revealed, that would've taken about 23 years. People had become muslims even before they knew how to pray.

So your logic, that you need to be perfect is, simply put, crap!!

[way2heaven]

i guess ur reformist's moula...hahahah they've got something to cheer n laugh.

[way2heaven]

Do Shia's do preaching(tableegh)?? tell me this first!!

was-salam.
way2heaven

[mumineen]

Posted by us previously:
Why are we so concerned about the Aga Khani Shia Ismaili Khojas? We seem to have a fettish, bad-mouthing a community and its philanthropic leader who has NOT done us any harm. If you peruse through this website's archives, we have already exhausted this subject - probably due to that ex-Ismaili Khoja Akberally Maherally's anonymous instigative posts on this website (he has already become a Sunni and is merely being vindictive). We are being used.

Are we suffering from the inferiority complex that we slander and libel others to mask our inadequacies and defects and hence are jealous of the Aga Khani's successes in this world?.

Please grow up and cease and desist from these futile attacks - "pissing in the wind".

[anajmi]

way2heaven,

I guess ur an abde moron...hahahaha we've got something to cry and lament about!!

[Musafir]

Mumineen, sounds like a member of Ismaili Tariqah and religious education board. I don't know why any post about the Hazar Imam gives you such a discomfort. Why you don't get angry when somebody talks about Sydena Burhanuddin, it means you are an Ismaili and spying on this site that who and what is talked about our Imam. Let me tell you this we are 4 brothers and we all have a different opinion about my father although he is a rich guy and we will get chunk of wealth after his life, but that doesn't mean that we don't express our opinion.

If you want to know that why some people talk about Aga Khan, our Imam, because he has given too much politics and power to his Councils and Tariqah Board. I am from India, I don't have that much participation in Jamati activity, as much as a member from Pakistan or East Africa. Admit that most of the practices in Ismaili Tariqah are not right and denies the Wehdat of Allah Tawheed is denied by the act of an ordinary Ismaili.

I am not here to talk on things like that, but why you feel that only Akbarally Meharali can talk about the lack in Tawheed in our Faith of Shia Imami Ismaili. At the time of Hazar Imam's first divorce I was told that " He is the Malik of Deen and Dunya" what kind of philosopy is that.

Allah will show a right path to all the Ismailies and Bohris and who ever is trapped by the Shirk and denial of Tawheed.

[mumineen]

We were born Dawoodi Bohras and wil die Dawoodi Bohras - regardless of what or how they or you care to brand us. We have been called worse by better people!

This is website for Progressive Dawoodi Bohras and in our opinion it should generally be used for the mission alluded to at:

http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/mission.htm

This site is not or should not be used or be abused to bad-mouth other leaders or other faiths. The Progressives as has been clarified before are NOT against Syedna Burhanuddin Saheb as our leader or Da'i, but against his oppressive policies and his Kothari administration. We are not concerned on this site with the problems you have with your leaders. Go forth and weed your own garden. We are sure the Administrators of this site will confirm this.

[anajmi]

mumineen,

That is like saying we are not against the devil, only his policies!!!

[Musafir]

Mumineen, if this is the case then you should ask each and every member log in that you should have certain kind of Dadhi and Topi then you can log in. My concern is beyond your imagine and your approach.

Admin should start approving all the posts that nothing should be said about anybody, except the chamchas. If you go through all the posts, you will notice that I never started any topic, only participated in the discussions.

[mumineen]

The moral law is not to hate or criticise a person but his/her actions.

When a baby is born, it is born with no sins. He or she becomes evil (devil!) or a saint depending on the type of upbringing or environment the person grows up in.

We are NOT against civil debates, arguments, rebuttals (to cover your but again and again!!) or philosophical discourses. To put it more bluntly participate in "intercourse of ideas, not intellectual masturbation". The former enhances one's professional maturity and outlook and the later gives one a momentary ejaculation of worthless orgasmic exuberance or sel-centred and egoistical pleasure. Got it?

[mumineen]

Awfully sorry; little corrections to the "typos" in our last line which should read:

"and the latter gives one a momentary ejaculation of worthless orgasmic exuberance or self-centred and egoistical pleasure. Got it?"

[spot]

mumineen,
to support the dai's position and riducle his actions is just as hypocritical as calling yourself a dawoodi bohra and not adhering to any of their ethos or beliefs.

[anajmi]

mumineen,

I have nothing against you, I just don't like what you type. I am sure you were completely free of sins when you were born and I am sure we've come a long way from that, but I am not against you, just what you type!!

oh oh oh!!! - I feel so satisfied aahhh!

[mumineen]

Spot:

We've been given God-given sense and wisdom to segregate the truth from falsehood, right from wrong etc., and hence adhering to the Dai's beliefs and ethos which are either unIslamic or against Human Rightsetc.,(e.g. lust for money of the Family, oppression of his flock (power), FGM)is questioning his actions - not him as a person.

Musafir:
I have no problem, you not liking what I type (sorry, the political correct word is "word-process")as long as you don't hate me, and that you have clarified. Thanks

[anajmi]

mumineen,

Sorry about that, I will re-post

I have nothing against you, I just don't like what you "word-process". I am sure you were completely free of sins when you were born and I am sure we've come a long way from that, but I am not against you, just what you "word-process"!!

oh oh oh!!! - I feel more satisfied aahhh!

[mumineen]

anajmi: thy name is perverted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You cry: "oh oh oh!!! - I feel more satisfied aahhh! "

"intellectual masturbation: gives one a momentary ejaculation of worthless orgasmic exuberance or sel-centred and egoistical pleasure. Got it? "

Would we lie to you? Case rested!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[anajmi]

mumineen,

I am sure you have nothing against me. It's just what I "word-process" right?

[Admin]

We agree with mumineen. The Aga Khan issue has been discussed many times here. We do not see any point in raising it again and again - unless of course sufficient number of people of are interested in the subject. This is a bohra forum and we encourage discussion of Bohra issues. That said, we will not ban or discourage discussion of any subject so long as it is done within the bounds of decency.

Also, reformist Bohras accept the office of the Dai. If we question the current incumbent and his administration, it in no way invalidates the institution of the Dai.

[-Laila-]

Originally posted by Admin:
We agree with mumineen. The Aga Khan issue has been discussed many times here. We do not see any point in raising it again and again - unless of course sufficient number of people of are interested in the subject. This is a bohra forum and we encourage discussion of Bohra issues. That said, we will not ban or discourage discussion of any subject so long as it is done within the bounds of decency.

Also, reformist Bohras accept the office of the Dai. If we question the current incumbent and his administration, it in no way invalidates the institution of the Dai.

KUDOS

[spot]

mumineen and admin,
this is the exact hypocritical outcry i've made to other reformist i associate with. you can't have you cake and eat it to!

"Also, reformist Bohras accept the office of the Dai. If we question the current incumbent and his administration, it in no way invalidates the institution of the Dai."

this is intellectual masturbation at its best. what a crock! to believe in the office and the not person in it is just ludicrous. what is the point of the office then? hey, i got an idea..let's believe in position of the prophet..but not practice or believe in anything he did or said. you know that solves almost every issue muslims have with islam!!

[tahir]

According to spot, If you criticise the policies of George Bush, you actually dont believe in the office of the president of USA and so the post should be abolished.....No wonder the dai usually has a cakewalk in maintaining the unwavering loyalty of people with such amazing reasoning capabilities!!

[Humsafar]

Spot,

The Dai is not God. He's not the prophet.

The office of the Dai is one thing, the person occupying that office is quite another. The office may be sacrosanct but not necessarily the person who holds it. Dais are humans, they are fallible, they can make mistakes, they can be corrupt. The current Dai personally may not be corrupt - a moot point - but he does preside over a corrupt and decadent administration. Reformists question his conduct given the problems the community is facing and they question his ability to sort them out. And this - by any stretch of the intellectual masturbation - does not mean we are questioning the office of the dai. (Tahir is analogy is apt here.)

It is you Orthos and the Kothar's hangers-on who want to eat your cake and have it too. It's you who claim your corrupt Dai to be inafallible.

[spot]

humsafar and tahir,
the dai is not God nor the prophet by any means.

the dai's position, and for that matter the prophet's position, are not elected office like Bush...but chosen.

to consider an office sacred without the person being sacred is hypocritical. the person is chosen by the predecessor for the office...there by you would be calling both the incumbent and the predecessor...all the way back...as corrupt.

there is not point in regarding the office..if the officer bearer is corrupt.

please use my analogy of the prophet as a point of reference and apply the same argument. if you don't like using the prophet..than use the imam zaman, which the dai is the representative for:

hey, i got an idea..let's believe in position of the imam..but not practice or believe in anything he did or said. you know that solves almost every issue shiah muslims have!!