Haqiqi Qibla?

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by Muslim First:
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Domestic violence in Islam

The Quran on beating wives

James M. Arlandson

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I pray devients read and understand Qur'an

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Article from the Muslim Women's League.

Domestic Abuse in Saudi Arabia
The MWL recognizes the courage of Saudi television host, Rania Al-Baz coming out publicly with her tragic story of being a victim of domestic abuse. Sadly, millions of women around the world suffer from domestic abuse which is a form of violence that is often justified in the name of religion. We hope that this story will encourage others to come forward and reach out for help. Read Summer Hathout's article on Domestic Violence as well as our position paper on Violence Against Women.

Cut it anyway you want. The Quran has been hijacked by thugs who interpret it according to their own deviant agendas. ALL in the name of Islam. You name it. killing, hitting, hating...........etc. etc.....

[turbocanuck]

OOPS!! someone forgot to tell Prince Bandar and his camel jockeys VETS that he fancied sleeping with men.......coulda met 72 virgins instantly!!

[Muslim First]

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Turbo
Read M.Asad's translation and comments of 4:34

Read and profit
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[profrog]

somebody should tell the the wahabbi thugs that its because of them islam has a bad name,with their fanatical brand of islam they have spoiled the name of our religion and even more unforgiveable of our prophet sa.its because of thewm that the christian preachers are attacking islam

[Muslim First]

Cut it anyway you want. The Quran has been hijacked by thugs who interpret it according to their own deviant agendas. ALL in the name of Islam. You name it. killing, hitting,

Please include Ismaili devients too.
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[Muslim First]

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Frog

Why don't you eliminate Kothari thugs from your own community before going after Wahabis?

Do you really knw what a Wahabi is?
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[Muslim First]

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Here is devints view on Quran

Written Quran & Quran which speaks

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... bd29497e44

Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1169

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:37 am Post subject:

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God had not sent only four books. There were many books sent by God to different prophets,though names of four are generally famous. Its just like for a student there is need of text book as well as teacher.
However just like Prophet Muhammad had said that Quran is with Ali and Ali is with Quran...so without Ali one can not understand Quran and will finally come with incorrect interpretation. Ginans are like tafseer of Quran. Ginans and Farmans helps in understanding Quran.
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God save Qur'an and us from devients
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[anajmi]

turbonut,

Please post the interpretation of 4:34 according to your not-divinely sanctioned Imam.

[anajmi]

Brother Muslim First,

I took a look at the link that you posted above and read the thinking of these Ismailis. Man, talk about brain damage!!

I am glad people like turbonut and jawanmardan come to this board and learn a few things like their Imam is just their Imam and not sanctioned by Allah to lead all muslims. He is not an incarnation of Ali and is not God incarnate. Nor is Buddha a reincarnation of Ali. Although, the reason they start attacking everyone's Islam is simply because they are confused and sad that they have been so mistaken and fooled. It seems they need to justify their Imam's existence and so the only thing they can come up with is his charitable donations. And ofcours, attack everyone else.

Prophet Mohammed said that the donating of that which you have an abundant supply of is of no use. So if their Imam is donating money, of which he has a lot, thanks to the collections from his gullible followers, he is not doing anything special. Even then, remember that he wasn't able to donate an extra $10 to save the life of the poor guy pardesi was seeking help for.

turbonut,

Please post your Imam's translation/interpretation of 4:34 and teach us the quran according to your Imam for once.

[Muslim First]

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Br Anajmi

I have been going thru this site and collecting Ismaili Nuggets. I will disperse them slowely while devients visit this board.

You cant post anything on their board.

Wasalaam
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[Muslim First]

Here is another one

Hazar Imam is God---then who is Satan?

http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... ngo+dajjal

star_munir

Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 1169

Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 3:26 pm Post subject:

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As you asked "If we can have the Mazhar of Allah on earth or God in a human form... I am sure the same can be said and done with Evil --> Dr. Satan. "

The Satan is "Daint Kalingo" according to Holy Ginans. It represents the opposite of Naklanki Avtaar. Daint means demon and Kalingo means black. As per hadiths it it Dajjal.. There are lot of Ginans and hadiths in this regard and different interpretation and undertanding of different people. A lot have been discussed about it in past in these forums.

s786

Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 87

Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 8:28 am Post subject:

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Also... during the time of Hazrat Ali, perhaps Abu Bakr and the two Caliphs succeeding him were Satanic figures?

Thanks,

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I hope Porus's version of Zahir/Batin is as good as this
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[anajmi]

This is a beauty.

don't See the Physical Aspect of it ...
Hazar Imam is Also a Human. he is Directly Desdendent to GOD. he is the IMAM of the time.
As a IMAM, he Knows everything Spritually and Physically, He Gives u Direct Path towards GOD.
In your Real life .. Ever Needed a SWITCHER/ Booster for ur LAN/ TV Connection .. Where your LAN card Simple Interact with the Switcher/Router and the Switcher/Router Directly Connected to the Server .. So tell me if ur connecting with Switch .. it doesn't mean Switch is a Server..
we need Switch bcoz Your Signals are too weak for the server.

HAZIR IMAM is like a Switch/Router, Who can reproduce Our Weak Signals.

I think in that Sense .. he is MAZHAR .. bcoz he can Reproduce Signals/

"Correct me if i m Wrong .. but its my OWN Thinking"

He forgot to mention the power supply that is needed to keep the Switch/Router running. It's a good thing the Imam is not located in Iraq as most of the power stations over there are down.

[anajmi]

turbonut,

I am still waiting for the interpretation/translation of 4:34 according to your Imam.

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by anajmi:
turbonut,

I am still waiting for the interpretation/translation of 4:34 according to your Imam.

Anajma..if you have "half a brain" you may not need a Wahabbi thug to interpret this.........

OTTAWA, ONTARIO–(Marketwire - Oct. 15, 2007) - The Honourable Beverley J. Oda, Minister of International Cooperation, accompanied by Mr. Khalil Shariff, CEO of Aga Khan Foundation Canada, today increased Canada’s commitment to improving Afghanistan’s education system through the Foundation’s Girls’ Education Support Program (GESP). The contribution will directly benefit more than 100,000 girls and 4,600 teachers. The Minister made this announcement while participating in a student forum at Ottawa’s Joan of Arc Academy.

“After years of conflict and insecurity, Afghanistan’s education system is one of the weakest in the world. This has deeply affected the country’s ability to rebuild and sustain itself,” said Minister Oda. “But progress is being made, and Canada continues to reinforce its role as a leader for education in Afghanistan, particularly for women and girls.”

“This program will build on the Aga Khan Foundation’s many years of experience and expertise strengthening access to and the quality of education in some of the most impoverished parts of Africa and Asia, often in partnership with Canada and Canadian institutions,” said Khalil Z. Shariff, Chief Executive Officer of Aga Khan Foundation Canada. “At the same time, our objective is to strengthen the ability of Afghans, from parents and children to government and institutions of civil society, to rebuild the education sector at all levels.”

The GESP will help address many of the needs identified in the Government of Afghanistan’s Five-Year National Education Strategic Plan. These include early childhood education, investing in improved teacher training for women, distance education, secondary education for girls, and improvements to school facilities. The GESP will be implemented by the Aga Khan Foundation Canada - a trusted partner with a proven track record in Afghanistan.

Canada’s New Government will invest $8 million in this initiative, which complements a commitment of $60 million to the Education Quality Improvement Project (EQUIP), Afghanistan’s largest education initiative. Minister Oda announced EQUIP funding on October 4 with visiting Afghan Minister of Education, His Excellency Haneef Atmar. Canada’s commitment to the initiative is the largest made to the program by any donor to date.

Today’s announcement is part of Canada’s total contribution of $1.2 billion over 10 years aimed at governance, security and development in Afghanistan. It builds on the commitment made by Prime Minister Stephen Harper last February, when he announced substantive funds to accelerate the reconstruction and development process.

For more information on Canada’s programming in Afghanistan, please refer to CIDA’s website at www.cida.gc.ca/afghanistan-e.

Source

From Canadian International Development Agency

From Aga Khan Foundation Canada’s Press Release: New Partnership to Strengthen Girls’ Education in Afghanistan

If you need more satiate your bloodthirsty appetite for thuggery, No Problem. there's more where that came from.

[porus]

Yusufali translation any wahhabi bigot would be proud of:

89:2 By the nights twice five

Original is 'wa layalin ashrin" which is "and ten nights". (neither 5 nor twice appears in the ayat, but wahhabis know that ten is twice five, so that is alright then)

89:4 is translated "Is there (not) in these and adjuration (or evidence) for those who understand?" referring to the previous 3 ayats, I think.

A wahhabi (small w) will know, of course, what Yusufali means by the evidence. Because his translation "those who understand" is supposed to refer to wahhabis, who are the only ones who understand the Quran (according to wahhabis).

Would a wahhabi bigot be interested in the taawil of these ayats as explained by Sayedna Idrees Emaduddin?

"What, that crap!" I hear the wahhabi bigot say.

[anajmi]

turbonut,

I didn't read your post, just glanced through it trying to figure out if in all that you have posted the interpretation/translation of 4:34 according to your Imam. I don't think you have. I am not interested in what your Imam has done and for whom. I am only interested in his interpretation of 4:34. Can you please post that?

porus,

No, I am not interested in taawil by Sayedna Idrees Emaduddin. And since you do not believe in quran to be the word of God, you shouldn't either.

[baburao]

"True" Muslims are not interested in beating their wives and do not seek justification for such acts from the Quran or Hadith - they do not ask for(nor are given)the interpretation of verses purporting to commend such acts.

Why don't you just carry on with beating and abusing your womenfolk - do you need "authority" from anyone else? You can go your Jannah having followed the Quran "religiously and honestly"

[Muslim First]

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Turbo

Stop tooting AK foundtion charity horn.

Follow hadith of Prophet. Doing charity lefthand should not know what right hand is doing.

Unless you want others to be inspired by it.

BTW check this out

Edhi Foundation

Founder Abdul Sitar Edhi and wife slept on rope charpai and never wasted time going to races or breeding horses or served alcohol.

There are thousands of Abdul Sitar Edhi not tooting their horns.

Peace
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[baburao]

The two resident wahabis will find a lot of support for their views in sites like answering Islam. For the rest this is a very interesting article:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/n ... ran25.html

[baburao]

parable? conundrum ? what can one call it? A link to a site we should not know about because the left hand should not know what the right is doing! And what do you get on the home page - a quote from Abdul Sitar Edhi. And is it not him holding the child? Non-publicist! Non-egoist! Not many charitable foundations portraying a "humble" founder so prominently!
And maybe the junior wahabi needs to reread 2:271 without the help of the local mullah.No doubt wahabi senior will butt in when he gets up!

[baburao]

"Prophet Mohammed said that the donating of that which you have an abundant supply of is of no use."

Very interesting! Of no use. And the source of that quote? A hadith of questionable veracity no doubt. Analysing and extrapolating that statemnt (and wahabis please switch off if you haven't already as applying reason is blasphemy in your brand of Islam)one can conclude that the very rich should not give anything in the way of Allah as it is of no use. Wonderful - maybe I will join the wahabis, enjoy my wealth and take the 72 virgins when the time comes!

[anajmi]

Look who is back to save his Ismaili brothers from humiliation. The same bhaji pao who couldn't answer the same question months ago and went into hiding, a la hidden Imam.

Allah says in the quran (and you can figure out where) that men and jinn even if they work together cannot produce one ayah similar to any ayah of the quran. I have been asking the Ismailis for years, all of them together haven't been able to produce a single ayah of the quran as interpreted by their Imam. C'mon guys, are you guys this useless? Or is it your Imam? Let us start with ayah 4:34.

[anajmi]

baburao,

one can conclude that the very rich should not give anything in the way of Allah as it is of no use.

You should keep the Ismaili interpretations of what the prophet and Allah teach to yourself. Remember, what your brother jawanmardan said, the Imam is for your tariqah only and you do not encourage people to join. Leave it that way.

As for the rich giving money away, if they think, like the Ismailis do, that it is enough to get 72 virgins in heaven, they are mistaken. Gravely, I might add.

[baburao]

Gosh is it that time already - the senior wahabi is up! And always totally screwed up - is he after an interpretation or a new ayah to match the one that dictates his relationship with his mother(s?) and sister(s?)

Incidentally answering Islam as well as a Hindu site has already risen to his challenge - he can go look at the response himself.

And just to remind you Anju darling - look at your archives (as you so fondly collect your own exchanges with superior beings) and you might find the admission that I am an Ahmadiyya

[baburao]

And there really will be 72 virgins in heaven? your brother wahabi has quoted a M Asad - never heard of him but there is a more famous Asad - Asadullah known as Mirza Ghalib who when implored to go for juma prayers and enticed by the promise of 72 virgins responded “Hum ko maloom hai jannat ki haqueeqat lekin,Dil ki khushrat ko Ghalib ye khayal achchha hai”

Do not even look at any other tariqas - none will be as fantastical as yours!Carry on the jihad

[porus]

The Arabic word 'adribu as used in 4:34 can be, and has been, interpreted with many shades of meanings to justfy, or in some way to explain away a rather embarrassing, to the 21st Century globally aware person, thought of God.

Preferring one meaning over the others is a personal decision and is open to the same charge of white-washing. In the final analysis, one must come to the conclusion that the translations are not Quran, despite our resident bigots' incessant quotes from them tell us that they are.

Either the verse is applicable to specific circumstance of ancient Arab tribal culture or it is valid for all places and times. It is he latter that Muslims will opt for. In that case, literal meaning will not do and recourse must be made to 'hidden' meaning.

Wahhabis cannot defend the verse because they, like the non-Muslim detractors of Islam, have to accept the literal meaning and beat the wives. Batinis have been there long before non-Muslims learnt about the Quran and indeed have, to some a very satifactory, interpretation of the verse. However, this requires a faith in the 'rules of the cosmic game' that God has decided to play with humans.

Until you find a good teacher of baatin and taawil, make do with this:

http://www.zaghloolalnajjar.com/beating_yes.htm

By the way, where, except in Islam, would one find a justification for bedding a woman whom 'your right hand possesses' (vide 4:34)? And how do I go about getting such a woman legally in Islam?

[baburao]

Anjali (I remember your invitations from past exchanges to f*** you so I shall continue to refer to you by names that connote your innate gender)

You have not quoted the source of the saying of the prophet regarding the futility of giving what you have in abundance - I was simply taking up your very good advice and not promulgating anyone else's interpretation.

[anajmi]

baburao,

You are not an Ismaili?? I must've missed your post about you being an Ahmaddiya. I shouldn't be wasting my time with you. Thanks for letting me know.

porus,

with many shades of meanings to justfy, or in some way to explain away

This is how the enemies of Islam explain away every ayah of the quran and stick to the meaning that they want the quran to have so that they can justify their atrocities against the muslims to steal muslim land and muslim resources. And as far as people like you are concerned, justify their disbelief.

To my Ismaili brothers,

Still waiting for the interpretation of 4:34 according to your Hazar Imam. Let us see how he interprets 'adribu'.

[baburao]

Porus,

If all Muslims put the Quran in its right context there would be no need to "apologise" to anyone or be embarrased by any ayah - even the Bible and Torah have passages that taken out of context project their adherents in arguably worse light than the talebans. Fortunately (or should that be unfortunately) Judaism and Christianity do not have the wahabi/taleban equivalents. One just hopes that some day the non-Muslim world will be able to see the real Islam - one which does not advocate the intolerance that some of us so readily display here.

[Humsafar]

Fortunately (or should that be unfortunately) Judaism and Christianity do not have the wahabi/taleban equivalents.

Christians and Jews have their share of extremists and fundamentalists, albiet history has been kind to them and spared them from becoming as politicised and radical as the Taliban.

One just hopes that some day the non-Muslim world will be able to see the real Islam

Alas the the non-Muslim world will never see the real Isalm because there is no such thing. Every type of Islam is an interpretation. And the interpretation depends on the levels and stage to which the interpreter's consciousness has developed. Unfortuantely for Islam, the majority of its interpreters are stuck in the mythical, medieval mode of understanding. No amount to taawil/baatin and modern spin will change their mindset stuck hopelessly as it is in the 7th century Arabia.

And it is this reality that make liberal Muslims anxious about how the non-muslim world perceives them. Their modern outlook does not jive with a religion whose certain tenets and practices are embarrassingly outdated. They want to believe in an updated Islam but literalists will always deny them that comfort. This is the contradiction they have to live with and there's nothnig they can do aobut it. I think, they would be better off if they stopped caring about what the non-Muslim world thinks of them.