Haqiqi Qibla?

[muhammad khan]

Dear Anajami,

Aga Khan don’t do the tilawat of entire book and give it to Ismailies to follow. Alims at the jamat khana puts their interpretation; every Ismaili has the right to follow what ever they like. Some time two Ismaili amils don’t agree with each other interpretation, which I perfectly fine for us.

But you will never see any Ismaili Amil beating his wife for a little misconduct and proving himself right with the help of Quran.

You will never see an Ismaili getting inspiration from Quran to conduct acts like 9-11. Because our interpretation is not the same as the interpretation of some of your sect people who do all these kind of things in the name of Allah.

We believe that whatever Aga Khan teaches us or tells us to do is from Quran. Aga Khan and Quran are together and no one can separate them.

[muhammad khan]

Hi Anajami

For some reason Ismailis believe that I haven't and that they have understood it better because of their Hazar Imam

Ismailies don’t believe that they are better than others. Ismailies don’t believe that they have monopoly over Allah. Ismailies believe that there are many other ways to God other than Ismailism. Ismailies promote pluralism, peace, and love.

[muhammad khan]

[QUOTE]
Whatever little knowledge the Ismailis have of the quran is not because their Hazar Imam but it is because of the works of Sunni scholars and historians.
[QUOTE]

There are so many points coming out of this statement. The first thing which I partially agree with you is

Ismailies get their entire knowledge from Sunni Scholars. Well, they do get their knowledge from Sunni scholars, but they also get their knowledge from Shia ithnashary, Shia Bohri, nizari Ismaili scholars. Learning is not restricted in Ismailism. Aga Khan has always emphasized on role of intellect and knowledge in religion. For Ismailies Aga Khan is the Guide, he guides us and helps us in getting knowledge.

The 2nd point that comes out of your post is

Whatever knowledge that Ismailies have is not because of hazar Imam.

Well, he is the primary source of knowledge for Ismailies.

The 3rd point that come out from your post is Ismailies have little knowledge about Quran.

Though Ismailies have long way to go and they do not have sufficient education of Quran as Aga Khan wants, still an average Ismaili has more knowledge about Islam and Quran that an average Sunni. I don’t have any survey to prove it but this is my personal experience. Check it out if I am wrong, you do the survey.

For his golden jubilee, one of the most important measures he is taking is to see how he can further help Ismailies in taking more knowledge about Islam and Quran. And inshallah he will be successful in his efforts.

[muhammad khan]

According to you if we just follow the Sunni scholars fatwas then why are not Ismailies killing innocents in Iraq?

Why are Ismailies not behaving like Taliban in Afghanistan by killing those who don’t agree their form of believe, or by closing the schools for girls, or by demolishing other religious places?

Why was fatimid empire so different than Saudi empire? Saudi empire indulges in degrading women, harassing minorities, disrespecting other believes and religion, no right to speech. You won’t see this in Fatimid empire.

Why are Ismailies more tolerant then many of those who follow Sunni Scholars?

[anajmi]

turbonut

You've got to be kidding me.

049.013
YUSUFALI: O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

063.010
YUSUFALI: and spend something (in charity) out of the substance which We have bestowed on you, before Death should come to any of you and he should say, "O my Lord! why didst Thou not give me respite for a little while? I should then have given (largely) in charity, and I should have been one of the doers of good".

Either your Imam plagiarized from Yusuf Ali or vice versa. I am going to go with the former.

[anajmi]

jawanmardan,

You seem to be missing the forest for the trees or the tree for the leaves or something like that. In short, you seem to be missing the point.

I am not interested in discussing whether one should beat his or her, wife or husband. I am only interested in the Hazar Imam's interpretation of ayahs that the Ismailis themselves have brought up and claim to have understood better than the "wahhabis".

I am interested in something like this.

004.034
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

HAZAR IMAM: Men and Women are equal, Men are not protectors of women or vice versa, Allah has given them the same strength as each other. A woman doesn't need to be obedient to the husband or do everything he says. Even if you fear disloyalty, ill-conduct on the part of your spouse, husband or wife, don't you dare beat them and don't refuse to share their bed with them. Allah is Most High, great.

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by anajmi:
turbonut

You've got to be kidding me.

049.013
YUSUFALI: O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

063.010
YUSUFALI: and spend something (in charity) out of the substance which We have bestowed on you, before Death should come to any of you and he should say, "O my Lord! why didst Thou not give me respite for a little while? I should then have given (largely) in charity, and I should have been one of the doers of good".

Either your Imam plagiarized from Yusuf Ali or vice versa. I am going to go with the former.

Anajma, you are either an Idiot or an incredibly stupid person. I quoted the suras and ayats to reflect Our MHI's outlook on tolerance and love, but you being such an idiot, took it as His conveyance, as i have said before we Ismailis follow and lead by example. This is too much for your dimwit brain to process. Oh wow!! i guess your local Wahabbi thug must've thought you were some scholar, and sent you out for hunting and Tableegh. GOD help us.
Go abuse someone like a woman or a "ghilman"
Turbonut

[anajmi]

So in short, you couldn't find a single ayah of the quran (and there are more than 6000 of them) that has actually been translated by your Imam!! Of what use is this Imam? No use.

Ismailis follow and lead by example!! Seriously my friend, if people were to read your posts, they would question either the followers or the leadership. Look at the filth that you come up with, calling people names and abusing them and their families. Is this what your Imam has taught you? Is this his leadership. Tsk Tsk Tsk, what a waste.

And next time you address me, bring an ayah of the quran as interpreted by the Hazar Imam, do not bring your actions cause you are much worse than any wahhabi I know. Till then, this is my last post to you, you filthy Ismaili pig.

[jawanmardan]

Turbo, seriously bro,

your discussing this with someone who believes domestic violence is a prerequisite of his faith, and a defining characteristic of his masculinity.

[anajmi]

muhammad khan,

Ismailies don’t believe that they are better than others. Ismailies don’t believe that they have monopoly over Allah. Ismailies believe that there are many other ways to God other than Ismailism. Ismailies promote pluralism, peace, and love.

Similar to how the Americans are promoting freedom and democracy in the Middle East I guess. Look at the posts of your Ismaili brothers and see how much venom they have in their hearts against other muslims.

Learning is not restricted in Ismailism. Aga Khan has always emphasized on role of intellect and knowledge in religion. For Ismailies Aga Khan is the Guide, he guides us and helps us in getting knowledge.

In other words, "learn from where ever you can, just don't come to me cause I have no clue"!!

Well, he is the primary source of knowledge for Ismailies.

Does that include the knowledge of the quran? If it does, can you produce the interpretation/translation of a single ayah of the quran according to your Imam?

Why are Ismailies more tolerant then many of those who follow Sunni Scholars?

You are joking right? The tolerance of the Ismailis is more than visible on this board. Plus the number of sunnis on earth is more than a billion. Which ones are you talking about? Which sunni do you know personally who beats his wife because the quran allows him to?

As far as Saudi is concerned and what they do is concerned, I actually don't care. If you have a problem with them, write them a letter or something, or ask your Hazar Imam to say something. Has he ever tried communicating with the Saudis? Even once in his life has he asked them to give up their ways and to join Ismailis? Oh wait, Ismailis don't invite others to join them. How convenient.

[anajmi]

jawanmardan,

Unlike Ismailis, I believe in the quran and accept what it says without question just like Ismailis accept whatever their Imam says (which is actually nothing at all) without question. If you think I have understood the quran wrong, then kindly bring the interpretation/translation of the quran according to your Hazar Imam and make a better person out of me. I am ready to become an Ismaili ( )

[jawanmardan]

Anajmi, seriously what are you smoking, can you possibly make any sense even for some of the time?

First I repeat; we have no wish for you to be an Isma’ili, or do you have goldfish memory cells. So get off that horse, your beginning to look stupid.

Why are you so pissed off with Isma’ilis?

Answer: Because we are against domestic violence, that right now you feel we are “filthy pigs” for suggesting wife beating is wrong. Because you feel wife beating is the cause worth fighting for to preserve Islams purity.

That’s a little messed up. But I digress;

(quote) As far as Saudi is concerned and what they do is concerned, I actually don't care. If you have a problem with them, write them a letter or something (/quote)

Yes or we could bring them up on discussion boards like this one, and have idiots like you get pissed off when we do. By pervasively defending the uncivilised beliefs.

(quote) You are joking right? The tolerance of the Ismailis is more than visible on this board.(/quote)

As for Isma’ili tolerance your right we don’t tolerate domestic violence, terrorism, abuse as you seem to do, are you aware your brothers are now grooming children in England for suicide bombings, how nice for you, perhaps we Isma’ili should be tolerant of that too? I mean I wouldn’t want to say that was wrong and be accused of being a filthy isma’ili pig now would I.
One wonders if its the done thing to utter "Bimillah" before you nock that jaw out of place.

[anajmi]

jawanmardan,

Yes or we could bring them up on discussion boards like this one, and have idiots like you get pissed off when we do.

The Ismaili sense of direction seems pretty messed up. Maybe it is because of the Hazar Imam. They have a problem with the Saudis and they are wasting their time pissing an idiot like me off. Aah the wonderful world of the Ismails.

[jawanmardan]

Anajmi, oh you! You’ve outwitted me once again.

Brilliant response to my post. Just think you’ll soon have spend a decade producing such processional marvels of the English language.

[anajmi]

It's nice to blame the language when you are at a loss for words.

[jawanmardan]

Originally posted by anajmi:
It's nice to blame the language when you are at a loss for words.

Yes anajmi, that’s precisely what I did, I blamed the language.

[seeker110]

I always admired the Aghakhani leader for his deeds.The help he provides for the muslims in general is unbeatable.I wish the other muslims could produce a leader like him.Anajmi why would you dislike a human being for being the decent person he is.Show me another muslim leader who has done the same or better,in this day an age.Dont go by things you think is right or wrong,just be glad he is not like our Moula.

[Muslim First]

.
Br. Seeker
There are many small and big Muslims who quitely do work and do not have 15 million worshipper to toot MHI's horn. At 10 I am meeting a Muslim convert (from Jainism) who is running Muslim Hospital and few schools supported by American Muslims in Gujarat. I am here to oversee family run projects.

Just remember detractors and devients are painting whole Muslim Umma whith misddes of tiny militant minority.

Wasalaam
.

[anajmi]

jawanmardan,

Yes, you did blame the language, my language, but you obviously don't understand your own posts. Did you think I was implying the English language?

Just think you’ll soon have spend a decade producing such processional marvels of the English language.

What the hell is a processional marvel? Hazar Imami interpretation of something?

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by seeker110:
I always admired the Aghakhani leader for his deeds.The help he provides for the muslims in general is unbeatable.I wish the other muslims could produce a leader like him.Anajmi why would you dislike a human being for being the decent person he is.Show me another muslim leader who has done the same or better,in this day an age.Dont go by things you think is right or wrong,just be glad he is not like our Moula.

Brother Seeker110
These wahabbi idiots on this board are no more than jealous and envious thugs. They cannot stand the progress of others. They have this warped sense of inferiority complex, so they have to vent it in a certain way. Their 5 times namaz is not valid if they do not curse and belittle other faiths.They go to Masjid 2 times daily and that the best portrayal of a Islam is!! Alas thats what their religion teaches them. as the cliche goes........a moron begets a moron

[pardesi]

Originally posted by anajmi:

Look at the filth that you come up with, calling people names and abusing them and their families. Is this what your Imam has taught you? Is this his leadership. Tsk Tsk Tsk, what a waste..

Anajmi,

I looked up your posts from the recent past on this website. Without a doubt, when it comes to abusing people and calling names, you are second to none. So your above quote does not make sense. Then you end your post with the following:

"Till then, this is my last post to you, you filthy Ismaili pig."

Talk about double standards.

By the way, I read somewhere on this board that there are about 6000 different interpretations of Quran in general. Is there any attributed to the Prophet himself? in writing? I do not intend to offend the Prophet like I know some on this board will make it sound like. But I always wondered why we go after all those interpretations done by mere humans, prone to mistakes, and never look for one from the actual source.

I was reading one such interpretation on 4:34 and towards the end he quoted a hadith of the Prophet:

"The Holy Prophet said:

"Never beat Allah's handmaidens."

"The best of you is he who is kind to his wife."

Isn't this contradictory to the general understanding that wife beating is allowed by Allah.

Anajmi, go ahead and enlighten me with you bs.

[Nobigotry]

One of the most famous hadith (sayings) of the Prophet Muhammad, “Seek knowledge, even unto China” (utlub al ‘ilm was law fi al-Sin)

In other words, "learn from where ever you can, just don't come to me cause I have no clue"!!

Apply the wahabi logic and you can negate all of the teachings of Islam as their prophet had no clue. An own goal Mr Anajmi!

[anajmi]

Nobigotry,

I am assuming you are an Ismaili and hence a little slow in understanding. I was actually referring to what your Imam has taught you.

pardesi,

I have never told anyone not to abuse others or their families. It is purely an Ismaili teaching. So Ismailis are the ones that should not abuse others. I am allowed. So whenever Ismaili pigs abuse others and their families I will point it out. And no, that is not what the quran and the sunnah of the prophet teaches. That is something that I learned on the side having to deal with Ismailis all the time.

[Nobigotry]

Here we go again. Allah's second example to mankind jumps to conclusions - like most of the salafi/wahabi. Read my post in another thread (a few times and very s-l-o-w-l-y) and you will understand.

And Aristotle's nephew can you explain how you know what the Ismailis are taught by their Imam - you have been fishing for years but these "deviants" are far too clever for you. Allah created people like you so we can glorify Him and thank Him that we were spared His wrath. Allah creates nothing in vain!

[anajmi]

And Aristotle's nephew can you explain how you know what the Ismailis are taught by their Imam

That is a very good question. Even after fishing for so many years I have no clue what the Ismailis are taught by the Imam except to abuse those that don't agree with them, and their families. By the way, do you know of a single ayah of the quran as translated/interpreted by the Hazar Imam? Till then, I won't be wasting anymore of my useless time with Ismailis.

[Nobigotry]

I won't be wasting anymore of my useless time with Ismailis.

How often have we read that? Tell you a "funny" story (no please don't go away - your mullah will not punish you for listening to stories - after that is all he ever tells you under the guise of ilm). One Friday afternoon a bunch of idiots (probably Madrass tutored) kept on delaying the train at every stop. The driver got fed up of repeating "Do not obstruct the doors - it causes delay" and finally announced "To the idiots in car 2 which part of do not obstruct the doors do you find difficult to understand?"

So which part of "I won't be wasting anymore of my useless time with Ismailis" do you find difficult to understand?

And you are absolutely right your time is "USELESS". But does anyone else lament the loss of something that is useless?

[seeker110]

Br.MF
Salams. I agree with you that there are many good muslims who do great humanitarian deeds and do it without any fanfare.I think you would agree that if there is such a person who is doing good things,need not to be put down because he does not withstand your or any other persons criteria of true muslim should be.
You mentioned the hospital, schools and other projects that you are involved with.I wish you the best for here and hereafter.
I am not a aghakhani but it hurts me to think that people talk nasty about him.He has done great things for the muslims in so many places.If there are 15 million people singing praises for him,then count me in too.
I wish for all to see the good in poeple.Follow the leader who was famous for being Sadiq and Amin.If we look at our Nabi before Islam came into existance,you see a model of great human being.Maybe we need to follow and keep that in mind.Too many problems after baitul-maal came into existance.Power and greed sure follows.
Please dont forget to learn about schools from our Parsi brothers.Charity for the likes of Sir Adamji Peerbhoy and beg like Sir Syed for the help in your projects.Dont have to bring Aghakhan down to get the ticket to Heaven.Allah is beneficial to all his creation.Lets respect all even if they do things which we may consider to be incorrect in our perception of right and wrong.
We are not the gatekeepers of Heaven,nor the judge of who gets to enter.I am not sure about my own ticket.I am leaning towards the promise of Mercy,and I have my doubts about it too.What if........

[anajmi]

seeker,

No one is bringing Aga Khan down. He just doesn't deserve to be on the pedestal that his idiotic followers put him on. He is a good human and does good charity, accepted. His idiotic followers claim that he is their ticket to heaven and that he has understood the quran better than the rest of the muslims, even though Aga Khan himself has made no such claim. If he did, he would've been able to produce the translation of at least one ayah of the quran. Infact one of his followers have already accepted the fact that Aga Khan is not the Amirul Mumineen that some of his idiotic followers claim he is. He is not chosen by Allah to guide the muslims. Infact he doesn't even want outsiders to become Ismailis. That is probably the best aspect of his charity.