Syedna in Mumbasa

[Al Zulfiqar]

It would be common sense that the religious leader should hold majalis where most of his followers reside, so most can benifit from his speaches. Why the travel to Mombasa ? can anyone shed any light in this respect.

the answer is simple my friend. the problem is no one in our community or atleast the majority do not want to exercise their brains.

by arranging the tamasha overseas, maximum foreign exchange hera-pheri can be done to make black money white. if the purpose of these vaezes was really noble, to convey the message of the sacrifice of hussain and his family in the larger interests of islam to the maximum no. of people, then mumbai would be the best choice. most bohras in india wud be able to travel there, all resources and logistics etc are readily available there. but NO.

how would they then launder all the cash money, hundreds and thousands of crores they receive in salaams from bohras, most of which is again earnings in black money? one foreign tamasha on a large scale and voila! huge sums are remitted from abroad, which includes the massive sums of cash taken from india by hawala, the diamonds, gold etc which is sold abroad and funds remitted back to india. its all a very complicated fraud they commit on the indian govt to avoid taxes and not declare their real income. this pattern is repeated all over the world. europe, north america, africa, far east, so on.

the kothar is a master at playing this insidious game. they can even put the vatican to shame. while the community of sheep sleeps, the wolves plot and weave complicated webs of deceit. alas, little do bohras know the real intent of the deep games being played in the name of our deen and islam...

[ghulam muhammed]

Shahzada Aliwaqar Idris bs Badruddin Saheb visited the Busaheba Waaz Pass office in Mombasa and other sites to inspect the readiness and preparations for Ashara Mubaraka 1430 that is to be held in Mombasa

Certain lanes and mohallas of some cities in India are named after 51st and 52nd dai after greasing palms of various govt. officials but now 52nd's wife is left with only a miniscule waaz pass office named after her.

[ghulam muhammed]

its all a very complicated fraud they commit on the indian govt to avoid taxes and not declare their real income.

Afew years back I was told by a banker friend of mine that 52nd's sons mostly have their personal savings account in foreign banks in India. The reason for this was that these banks enjoy some flexibility with regard to RBI guidelines as compared to Indian banks and by virtue of which one can do lots of adjustments. Now these parasites hold crores of rupees in their SB A/Cs which if kept in Fixed Deposit would fetch them good interest but if they do so then it may be leaked somehow and would raise questions within bohras. So they avoid this route but still they have a greed to generate more income from their savings. So how do they do it ?

They have an understanding with the banks by which at any given time of the year they guarantee to keep a minimum balance of a few crores in their SB A/C's and a rough interest amount is calculated which is reimbursed by the bankers to them by showing the payment under various miscellenous heads such as a) drivers salaray b) airfare c) foreign accomodation etc. etc. Now to avail of these benefits, they are appointed as agents of the bank and then these charges are credited to their A/c. This system was very much prevailent a few years back but as of now Iam not aware whether the same is continued or whether they have adopted another novel method.

[mumin]

There should be no business angle for a religious leader. His only inerest should be the preaching of his religion. His meeting with political leaders to promote business for the community is not the job of a religious leader. But i guess being a bohra (vohra) there has to be a business angle in every aspect of their life, even in religion.

[Al Zulfiqar]

[quote="mumin"]There should be no business angle for a religious leader. quote]

who said that the syedna is a religious leader??? just because he wears white clothes and sits on a takhat?

the sooner that u and our other bohras realise and understand that the dai is a ruthless businessman, the sooner we can work towards reform. he only TALKS of religion because it is a great marketing tool to earn hand over fist and no questions asked.

the bohra deen is the only business in the world where, when a customer walks in, u insult him, abuse him, spit on him, give him a few choice well-aimed kicks and punches and then when he is down and out, you take money from his wallet. when you throw him out, he actually stops to bow down and do salaam to you and thank you. !!!

no matter what business u do, can u ever have a business like this??????????? where inspite of the recession their income does not suffer? its the only business in the world where the returns are 100,000 times more on the investment for the syedna and his leaches..!!!!!!!!! morgan chase, lehmann bros, goldman sachs and all the biggest banks in the world are all fools compared to the syedna's business.

[ghulam muhammed]

One bus carrying Bohras to Mombassa for vaiz met with in accident

It is reported that certain abdes had gone to oversee the preparations for the vayez, there were some Faize-Huseini guys also and the bus in which they were travelling met with an accident and some of the injured were brought back to Mumbai and are lying in Saifee Hospital.

[GreatBarrier]

I am not a fanatic but let us credit the Sayedna saheb when he deserves it ! 1 year ago the same location the congregation is being held Africans were rioting for election chaos and killing one another, this time there are people from all over the world celebrating a cause.

Ashara in Mombasa is the gretaest practical example Bohras have demonstarted to elevate even if it is at a minimum, poverty within Mombasa. Some of you will respond it is only the bohra committee members who will gain but if any of you know the theory of capitalism will appreciate that when the rich get richer the poor get richer.

Taxis, meat suppliers, vegetable growers, servants and cleaners will get temperory jobs, they will go home with SH100-200 a day and be able to feed their families, purchase from local kiosks and overall Mombasa which is majority Muslim populated will benefit. If Ashara was not in Africa Africans would continue there dailyt struggle and therefore Mashallah to Sayedna to provide a win win situation where even if it is only for 10 days atleast the spirits of that land will be raised. During the Wests global recession this is a shot in the arm to help boost tourism when others have decided to save their jobs. Before criticizing why dont you guys jump in the palne and go an ask a local Mombasa person whether he has an issue with so many people around, of course dont ask the snob who has difficulty getting his Mercedes Benz through the crowded streets, but advise him he can fly off to an exotic island for 10 days since he can afford it and does not wnat to spend it locally.

Mombasa in Dec reaches over 35 degrees C, Champal is a formal attire so before picking on the VIPs think what your verbal vomit you are throwing up. In Dec many of the political dignitaries visit Mombasa for vacationing and hence they were readily available. Now whether they were paid to attend that is a different topic. Unless I sense some of you are racists against blacks and if so remember Obama is a son of a Kenyan too !

No one from overseas has been forced to attend the the congregation but strangely I have observed people are on wishes flying to Mombasa. Which of you chartible contributers on this website would object to the amount of tourism input this brings to an impversihed nation ? Can you imagine if 20,000 attendees spend $1000 in ten days would equate to $20million direct contribition to Kenyas economy and image without of you and I loosing a cent from our own pockets.

Please remember that the Kenyan Christian President entering a Indian institution and a Mosque in Mombasa reflects well for a hormony between Muslims and Christians, Africans and Indians in the suburn of Old Town Mombasa which is a Sunni Arab enclave and some years ago had Al qaeda terorists blowing up tourists hotels. It would be foolish to assume IthanAsheri's, Hindus, Ismailis have contributed and leased their halls, and would have done this if they did not support the cause of Ashara event..

Before we for the sake of it criticize spare your thoughts for a more targeted and worthwhile reason to crticise. I think this time you guys have lost the plot and need to shut up. Some of you will insist it is mourning event and we should do so modestly but i do not agree that Muharam means becoming sadistic. People can congregate and unite and participate, if it enhaces their faith what is your bone ! During Hajj ( an please I am not equating the two)Muslims all over the when finishes with the rituals shop and celebrate and help the Saudi economy, what do you find wrong with this event.

[makberi]

undoubtedly the event will help the Kenyan economy.....but wat abt the many bohras who are in need for help.....wat abt the bohras who cant afford a college education....or find it hard to make ends meet....the Prophet has said one shud first extend charity to one's own family members ....shudnt the poor bohras come first!!!.....
this mite also help the bohras of Mumbasa....but again there are more productive ways to help ppl.....by setting up educational institutions, factories to employ ppl, training facilities to develop skill sets...etc.....
i am not God so i dont know the real intentions of the Kothar.....but i have my doubts of there being an altruistic reason for ashara in mumbasa......makes u wonder y ashara always take place in well off bohra cities like dubai, colombo, mumbasa, US etc...not in towns like Godhra or Dahod ...where there are much more bohras (though relatively poor)

[like_minded]

makberi

you've hit the nail on the head!

[Hussain_KSA]

.لا يؤمن من أحدكم حتى يحب لأخيه ما يحب لنفسه. صدق الله العظيم

Great Barrier.

Please let Hafiz e Quran Dr. Mohammed Burhanuddin saheb (TUS) explain this verse to himself and practice it in order to be true believer of Islam.

Wassalm

Abde Allah

[like_minded]

.لا يؤمن من أحدكم حتى يحب لأخيه ما يحب لنفسه. صدق الله العظيم

Great Barrier.

Please let Hafiz e Quran Dr. Mohammed Burhanuddin saheb (TUS) explain this verse to himself and practice it in order to be true believer of Islam.

Wassalm

Abde Allah

Why do we have to keep picking verses from the scripture to prove anything?? Are we deprived of common sense?

[Hussain_KSA]

Offcourse you have common sense that's why you are in our camp. This is meant for those who claim to be hafiz e quran and haq na dai while doing all contrary to thier claims.

BTW If you did not like me qouting the verse than I feel sorry.

[like_minded]

Offcourse you have common sense that's why you are in our camp. This is meant for those who claim to be hafiz e quran and haq na dai while doing all contrary to thier claims.

BTW If you did not like me qouting the verse than I feel sorry.

We must realize that it's the scriptures and history which these Kothari thugs twist and use to control and enslave the community for their own benefit. Therefore, we must refrain from the same practice and instead focus on realistic way of approaching and eradicating this disease.

[like_minded]

Husain bhai

A few years ago, I happened to meet a cousin of mine who was then studying in daras.. We had a general discussion about our community, syedna, Islamic history and so on... When I questioned him about the practice of syedna which is contradictory to the Quranic teachings.. He flatly replied, telling me that scriptures cannot be comprehended by common people , Only the zaman dai can teach us its true meaning, all the same, we must read it, just read it in its original language to gain sawab.

What could I tell this ignorant, brain-washed zombie?

[Hussain_KSA]

Husain bhai

A few years ago, I happened to meet a cousin of mine who was then studying in daras.. We had a general discussion about our community, syedna, Islamic history and so on... When I questioned him about the practice of syedna which is contradictory to the Quranic teachings.. He flatly replied, telling me that scriptures cannot be comprehended by common people , Only the zaman dai can teach us its true meaning, all the same, we must read it, just read it in its original language to gain sawab.

What could I tell this ignorant, brain-washed zombie?

I believe you and agreed what you have written in previous post as well. During hajj 1428 I met one Jamia saifi graduate who tole me that syedna send him on his expense for hajj as a practice (it was pleasing to note that he is atleast sending jamia graduate for hajj on community expense) than he told me that "akaa mola" himself attended the oral exam of the final years student of Jamia, in curiosity I asked him what was the question. he told me that he was asked to recite the qaseeda of Akaa mola Tahir Saifuddin and than to explain it in given time. You can imagine how the new generation will learn about the history and religious rituals from these kind of teachers in future. When I further asked him about the Taweel and Quran he replied me at once that only Akaa mola knows this. If Aaka mola is no more! I further questioned. Than he stare at me angrily and told me "Hussain bhai don't tell like this, allah aaka mola ne ta qiyamat umar daraaz karse"? But in case it happend, I asked him again than his reply was that "Imam zaman will give his ilm to ja nasheen (sucessor) of akaa mola". I had no choice but to accept his logic.

[like_minded]

Husain bhai

The only conclusion we can draw is that this community has gone to dogs! In reality it is impossible to argue with abdes, they are intolerant, irrational, narrow-minded and ignorant.

Nevertheless, whenever I am drawn in such debates (which happens very often) I give them back, no matter what they think of me, I don't give a damn if they get offended.

I have been advised by friends and family members to remain silent and do not voice my opinion on religious matters, but frankly, I just cannot help it, If some crack-pot demands respect for his absurd beliefs, he wont get it from me and instead would surely get mocked and ridiculed.

The problem is, we have remained silent and polite for too long, and this is being misunderstood as our weakness.

[like_minded]

One more thing: These guys (abdes) give laughable examples to prove their point, For instance, when there was a debate on quami libaas (STD) being made mandatory to attend functions, ziyarats and all other sundry occasions, the answer was... like schools have uniforms, clubs have dress code, likewise our gatherings too have a dress code and we must abide by it.

I agreed with him on one point, our community being a club! where club members are have no freedom, extortion happening on daily basis, club members having no rights whatsoever to complain or oppose the practices of the management. Club rule 1. "Boss is always right" Rule 2. If boss is wrong, see rule no.1.

[Al Zulfiqar]

great barrier's post cannot go unchallenged. it is typical of bohras like him to display their mindset when it comes to such events. most fanatic bohras i know always take care to emphasise that they are not fanatics, but liberal minded individuals just like us. that is a very devious bohra tactic as when a bohra is among hindus/sunnis/parsis he will attempt to his maximum to portray himself/herself as being very much like them and enumerate many common factors.

no one is taken in by yr pathetic attempt to show yrself as a liberal GB, because what follows betrays yr mentality. if i can analyse yr argument about the great tamasha in mombasa, it is that the syedna has bestowed the struggling economy of kenya with huge benefits with his foresight on political, economic, racial and religious harmony which will flow out of gathering many thousands of bohras there. this equates the events of kerbala and the slaughter of imam hussain and his innocent family with economic and other benefits for an african country???? are u joking?!!! not only is this a travesty of their sacrifice but the height of yr naivette'. do you seriously believe that the syedna and his bloodthirsty family had the best interests of kenya and the general bohras in their mind when they decided on the venue of this annual moharram picnic?

little do u know what goes on behind the scenes before they settle on a location. its the figure of committed money, the no. of confirmed sheikhs and mullas to be 'anointed' and fleeced, the govt VIP receptions and the resulting publicity, the numbers of abde's who will attend and the salaams money it will generate etc etc. for you to ascribe such purely altruistic motives to a band of robbers and unscrupulous thugs is like thinking that bush went into iraq because he was a champion of democracy!!

by reducing the ultimate sacrifice of kerbala to such mundane worldly benefits, can only be the work of a kafir. so now imam hussain is a handle to be used for monetary gain? that too primarily for the syedna's family? if the syedna has such noble and high motives why doesnt he hold his moharram vaez in the very poor regions of india, like the interior of maharashtra, sp. malegaon where there were recently hindu muslim tensions? let him bring economic benefits there. why not in bihar where there is so much poverty and lawlessness? why not in sidhpur or godhra where bohras are isolated and marginalised? he will get 5 times more bohras to attend here, the economic and other benefits will be manifold and he will earn the thanks of more ordinary bohras too.

yr logic is not only a lame one and very insulting to the shohoda, but also a trivialisation of our cause. if the syedna's motives are so noble and he seriously wants to be a "dai", let him throw open his vaez for all and any who want to attend, incl. other muslims, hindus and whoever of any faith or persuasion, instead of charging fees to hear the shahadat of hussain!! is this what hussain died for that you make a tamasha out of it and earn money from it???

yr name is appropriate, for u have a great barrier reef inside yr mind.

[SBM]

Great Barrier
Then why not do next Ashara in HAITI, the poorest of the poor country in the World
They definetly can use the cash as well as Roohani environment . They have Christian President and very few Muslims
and this will also help Br. Al Zulfkiar's desire to have them close Alligators Shikar as Haiti is located close to Florida or
another better place would be Cuba, I am sure Castro will be more than happy to welcome Syedna and his Goons since they have lot in common which is to enslave the common people and live lasvish life.

[Humsafar]

GB's comment has provoked the disgust it deserves. The cynicism of the priestly class and the rationalisation of it all by the devotees just boggles the mind. If this is what a non-fanatic can come up with, you don't want to know what a fanatic would have to say.

If Sayedna saheb is so concerned about improving the economic conditions of Bohras, the first place he must go to is Dharavi - Asia's largest slums - in Bombay. It's in his backyard. Bohras live in pitiable conditions there. They and other residents of the slum would thank him for his favour and a few, impressed by his compassion, may convert to Bohra faith. Serving the mumineen and fulfilling dawat's mission by a single act. It can't get better than that. Now, Great Barrier can you let Sayedna saheb or his handlers know of this suggestion? It's gratis.

[mumin]

Is it true that the plight of the poor dawoodi bohras is so bad in some of the slums of bombay that to feed themselves some have even resorted to prostitution? I need an answer from some one who has seen it firsthand. And if such is the case has anyone approached the kothar in Bombay and bought it to their attention that something has to be done to save our community . Also are there any poor dawoodi bohra children in Bombay that cannot afford school? If so , is the syedna doing anything about it to save his children who believe in him to do something about it. The children call him shafiq bava and moula. Then is it not incumbant upon him to take care of his flock?
These questions came to mind when I watched the movie slum dog millionaire. and wondered if some of our dawoodi bohra children were going through the same situations. If this is so then someone should bring this to the attention of the local amil or whoever is incharge to remedy the situation. How can it be in ones conscience to lead a lavish life when his own who trust in him and respect him go hungry.

[GreatBarrier]

Al Zulfikar and Humsafar..read my post carefully before attacking !

I have not tried to justify Sayedna's Muharam intent but have tried to give him credit of the outcome ! Why do you get so anxious if he does what with his followers and wealth. They have not used your funds ! You surely do not sound like someone who pays when he demands ? Answer me honestly whether you are loosing one cent for his current event ? MYOB

If you wish me to choose then my grand parents came from India and lived in Africa hence I have more sympathy for local Africans then slum dwellers in India.

My posting was also correcting the racist remarks about champals wearing politicians ! Why do you believe poor Bohras in India are more deserving ?

Are you jealous that Africa was chosen over India ? may be I can probably understand your emotions but not logic !

I do not know how Haiti is in question, if the "jamaat" in haiti was successful in inviting for 1431 then I will support that too, similarly if Jamaat in a slum in India was successful.

It seems stupidity, and gossiping and sour grape mentality is in Bohra genes irrespective of their religious alignment !As you all have so long fought back scrutiny and interference from Kotharis, this time you are guilty of interfering in their private event. I am not an orthodox but mate give up and focus where it is justified and worthwhile.

I would rather spend time analysing the every day Karbala like situations Muslims around the world experience, Gaza, Iraq, Somalia, and so many other places and like Karbala again many are created by so called Muslim terror and not westerners.

[Gulf]

Kudos to GreatBarrier.. two great posts I ever read on this forum.

[makberi]

Gb, wud u hve preferred a university built in africa with the funds or spent as they are?
On the issue of indians being jealous I wud advise u to visit india n interact with poor bohras in various indian cities n towns

[makberi]

Regarding the minister I agree the discussion was irrelavant

[GreatBarrier]

Building University is a good cause and without doubt a more noble cause, but let us be practical how would you get 20,000 Bohras each to contribute $3000 including airfare and expenses, for a so called university construction in Black Africa...in reality this is an almost impossible ask..however going for a event is a win win where as an individual they obtain spiritual satisfaction, and they have the same democratic right to believe in what they like similarly Progressives have the right to not to believe in Sayedna.

Now for others on this forum can I expect the same zeal in you protesting the Indian Government Hosting Commonwealth games and IPL..surely they too in your minds do not contribute to the nations well being..so before you cast stones be absolutely guilt free and avoid contradictions.

[SBM]

^
Great Barrier
When Syedna asked his flocks to contribute $ 250,000 to George Bush there were 1000 abdes who contributed 2500.00 each
Same thing was done for Narendra Modi
And let us not forget how much gold was collected in the name of building Zari in for Jannat Ul Baqhi and now how much Gold is collected for building Zari for Imam Husain and other Shudas
Using the same logic they can build an University or place of learning with name like BU SAHEBA UNIVERSITY or TAHER SAIFUDDIN UNIVERSITY in Africa and I am sure gullible Abdes will open their pockets. Was not this case in Saifee Hospital
Now your other point that other Jamats did not approach. To get an Ashura event , a Jamat has to come with hefty sum of Salaams, number of Ziyafats and Najwas before Syedna and his Goons will give Raza, You argue that Ashura brings people prosperity and economy get stimulus then why not do the event in small towns in India and elsewhere without asking for those hefty sums, Let Kothar do all those Ashuras in poor areas and ask Mumineen to travel there and spend their money and stimulate the local economy and help the poor and undeserved there
BTW AT LEAST DURING ASHURA IN MUMBASA,THE LEAST SYEDNA AND KOTHAR CAN DO IS OPEN A BASIC CLINIC TO HELP THE LOCALS WITH MEDICAL TESTING LIKE EYE TESTS.DIABETES AND BLOOD PRESSURE MONITORING WITH ALL THOSE BOHRA DOCTORS COMING FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD This is done by other NGOs around the world like MEDISHARE and DOCTORS WITHOUT BORDER
Instead of Ziyafats he can visit those clinics along with local politicians and I am sure local Africans will appreciate and who knows may become Mumineen.

[makberi]

Oma I like the idea of bu saheba university..many ppl don't send their daughters to study out of town cuz they think its dangerous..this will make them think tht girls will study in our "mahol" n wil b safe..it shud help increase literacy among bohra women significantly..but unfortunately it won't happen!!

[ghulam muhammed]

Br.Makberi,

I appreciate your concern for the african community but the point is that is it the sole concern for the down trodden people of Mumbasa for which Burhanudin saab chose the venue ? It isnt, his only concern is that which jamaat doles out the maximum dollars as his fee for delivering the sermons and by virtue of which it is difficult to believe that bohras of mumbasa face any financial problems. It is like Bush wanting to boost the American economy by waging a war in Iraq because that amounts to a windfall of profits for the american armaments factories and the american infrastructure companies.

It is inconsequential as to where he delivers his sermons whether in Tumbaktu or the moon because it is the same old rhetoric speech consisting mainly of his own and his father's praises. It is difficult to understand as to what spiritual benefit one could get by listening to the same old tune since years together which only emphasis weeping and purjosh maatam thereby conveniently ommiting the real message that Imam Hussain a.s. wished to deliver. And if according io you the vayez does impart spiritual knowledge then the absence or presence of Burhanudin saab doesnt make any difference because anyway some other amil is bound to deliver the Muharrum vayez.

[Al Zulfiqar]

GB,

i see that for all yr eloquence you have very conveniently side-stepped the important question i asked you in response to your statements that syedna's moharram in kenya is justified on grounds of the economic and other benefits that will result out of it.

my question to you was: is imam hussain's and his accompanying shohodas' martyrdom now reduced to becoming a vehicle to bring benefits to bohras and poor countries? is that why he gave his life? that others may make monetary profit out of it???!!

as for the 'deep spiritual experience' that you mention, do u really in yr heart believe in all sincerity, that is the real reason why bohras travel so merrily to new and exotic locations for this annual picnic? maybe a miniscule % do, but the majority go to take advantage of the cheap hotels, food, and other travel arrangements and meeting up with long lost relatives and freinds. that is the great experience they look forward to. besides where is the discourse on the philosophy and purpose of kerbala? it is all shameless self praise and intense sales pitches to sell jannat through maximum money to be given to syedna and keep holding fast to his farmans, no matter how unislamic and stupid they may be. read the posts here issued here from mombasa itself to realise the sort of inane crap being dished out. if that is a great spiritual experience in yr opinion, then hunting of endangered animals by the syedna shud be enough to take us all bohras instantly into heaven!!!!

whenever pseudo-fanatics like you are cornered, they always fall back upon this tired old argument as their last resort, viz., its none of yr business even if we dance naked in our 'pvt' gatherings, because you dont pay for it and u are not a part of us, u are a busy body, u are filled with hatred at our happiness, success etc etc. the same arguments used by bush, blair and co ad nauseum. under the guise of 'pvt affairs', you wish to keep out all those who can think for themselves and are not taken in by the deceptions and frauds committed by the syedna and his evil family. perhaps in your logic, the corrupt politicians of our countries are right too, when they rob, steal and plunder from the govt funds and misuse their powers. who are we to complain when we are not members of parliament, right?

agreed, those few who wrote about haiti etc were bordering on ridiculous, but they were simply following yr absurd logic. if u still believe that the syedna is genuinely out to do noble things by arranging this annual moharam 'celebration' in various parts of the world, but not at home, then either u are a blissfully gullible and extremely naive person, or you are a part of the evil establishment yrself. its more likely the latter, a fact which is easily confirmed when you have a retard like gulf as yr supporter. that in itself, clinches the matter.