Next and not-so-New Maula

[JC]

Guys,

Any guesses???

Seems Khozema has been shown the door, after Current Bawaji, Shafeeq Bawa, Khojee is not in line .......

Muffadal has been constantly propogated ....... he is even known as Maula Muffadal in Africa.... is he the front runner??!!

Just wondering ........ if the next is any grand son of Burhani Baba, then would we use these 'Mushfiq Bawa', 'Shafeeq Bawa' etc ....... or come up with something new ..... 'Jawan Baradar', 'Purjosh Bhai', 'Alamdari Nishan', 'Ali Akbari Shaan'....etc etc

To me, there will be Imami Zahoor after 52nd ......... He will RIse ........... and under him there will be 4/5 Dais for different geographical locations ....... Silat-ul-Imam will STAY, but Gosh ......... now there will 4/5 Najwas for 4/5 Dais..!!!! and there will be a 'healthy competition' among Dais as to who collects how much, and how much 'power' each has.... there may be even Melas, or congregations, and we might hear from Amerikee Dai, Asiai Dai Na Mala Karta Wadhee Nay Loko Aaway ...........

[Al Zulfiqar]

JC,

no one is taking bets here on the next dai or whether the kothar will ever allow any imam to be 'zuhoor'. do you think that a bunch of thugs in possession of the golden goose are going to allow a spoil-sport-johnny-come-lately imam to disturb their endless partying and ayyashi and rob them of their haraam aamdani? take a guess...

[mumin]

other than te 52nd dai syedna burhanuddin saheb we already have two more dai's in india that also have a small folllowing, so a few extra dai's would not be a surprize.

[bohri]

Wonder if someone can explain - What is meant by 'Shahzada Aliwaqar Malekul Ashter' I presume that is the title and the name is Shujauddin?

Looks like he may be the next sultan, considering he is performing mojizas - see http://malumaat.com/main/load_advanced.html - unfortunately the such good tidings are restricted to those with valid eJamaat IDs. Can someone kindly post the full story please?

[Hussain_KSA]

Wonder if someone can explain - What is meant by 'Shahzada Aliwaqar Malekul Ashter' I presume that is the title and the name is Shujauddin?

Looks like he may be the next sultan, considering he is performing mojizas - see http://malumaat.com/main/load_advanced.html - unfortunately the such good tidings are restricted to those with valid eJamaat IDs. Can someone kindly post the full story please?

No his name is Malekul Ahter and Shujauddin is his Alias . Once I came across him personally . Believe me he is an idiot. However, Mufaddal is a bit capable.

[JC]

The Most Idiot is gonna win the lottery as then shrewed ones can play their games... If the ruler is smart, then he will have his way, and rest will be shown highway or freeway..... so a dummy has to be installed ......

[Haggi]

Why the speculation. Everybody knows after two chors it will be a ghanti chor.
They will compromise within themselves because they know which side their toast is buttered.

[like_minded]

A pack of cards has 52 cards.... 53rd is a JOKER

On a serious note... This cult is strengthening by the day... 52,53,54... It doesn't matter! as long as people remain blind-folded, spineless and unaware, these cheap thugs are surely going to make hay!

As long as RELIGION exists, these "God pedaling faith jockeys" are always going to find themselves in demand.

[admirer]

As long as RELIGION exists, these "God pedaling faith jockeys" are always going to find themselves in demand

Like_minded,

It seems you are an atheist and don't have regard for any religion, so why bother about the future of bohra community?

[like_minded]

As long as RELIGION exists, these "God pedaling faith jockeys" are always going to find themselves in demand

Like_minded,

It seems you are an atheist and don't have regard for any religion, so why bother about the future of bohra community?

Religion is ritualistic nonsense and God's way of telling us he doesn't exist!! It solely exists for the benefit of clergy who control the masses by exploiting the fear and greed element in human beings.

As far as the future of bohra community is concerned, Yes I am bothered because I happen to be bohra and it saddens me a great deal to see a bunch of bandits exploiting the masses, playing on their fears and greed to fill their own pockets and the irony is.. this is supposed to be RELIGION!!!! What a shame!!!

[mutmaeen]

bro lm

u r making sweeping statements-which imply that proher[pbuh] and moula ali[sa] taught us lies??[nauzubillah]

[like_minded]

bro lm

u r making sweeping statements-which imply that proher[pbuh] and moula ali[sa] taught us lies??[nauzubillah]

The question is what have we learned from these great men??

[mutmaeen]

the only thing to learn from history is man learns nothing from it says herebrt spencer

[Al Zulfiqar]

the only thing to learn from history is man learns nothing from it says herebrt spencer

Correct!!!! Our present dai and his father have learnt nothing either from the lives of the prophet and ali in terms of simplicity, austerity, love for their community which should encompass all those with pained hearts and legitimate grievances against those in the employ of the syedna's establishment, reaching out to widows, orphans and the deprived, and melting the hearts even of the enemies of islam with their generosity and large heartedness.

our syedna utters lanats on his enemies, runs when there is danger (which he has created!) and instead of calling people towards his dawaah, alienates them, persecutes them and throws them out, to the extent of breaking up their close-knit families.!! he collects money from widows and jobless people without any mercy or remorse. islam's history is replete with excellent examples from the lives of our founding fathers, which apparently our last few syednas have not read as they are doing exactly the opposite.

perhaps you should become an advisor to the syedna and his family and teach them the history of islam and its prophet and panjatan paak all over again.

[mutmaeen]

neither i need ur unsolicited advice nor am i qualified or capabvle of giving advice to someone who is being followed by a mass of people-perhaps u could do with a dose of humility and civility and concentrate on constuctive debates rather than pathetic satires and distasteful mockery and be a reason of driving away genuine people from airing their views

[SBM]

-

perhaps u could do with a dose of humility and civility and concentrate on constuctive debate

Mutmaeen
Which world do you live in "Constructive Debate" with who? Aamil, Shezaadas and on this forum some of the abdes have, when confronted with the facts either disappear or divert the whole conversation
I have said previously that transformation-revolution can come from within and that is why I only attend Ashura and Lailatul Qadar at the Markaz and am still part of the Jamat and NO I DON'T WAIT FOR JAMAN. I have never used any foul language for Syedna or any of his immediate family ( the worst I have ever said about them is ORHTOS OR KOTHARIS OR ABDES)
So I do partly agree constructive debate is good but it takes two parties on equal footing to debate. The example is Israel and Palestinians. Israel being the power and has no desire for a constructive debate with Palestinians as they consider themselves as SULTAN OF MIDDLE EAST

[mutmaeen]

is it necessary to stoop in response? those who dont though with differing ideologies evoke respect and those who dont beget contempt

[Al Zulfiqar]

neither i need ur unsolicited advice nor am i qualified or capabvle of giving advice to someone who is being followed by a mass of people-perhaps u could do with a dose of humility and civility and concentrate on constuctive debates rather than pathetic satires and distasteful mockery and be a reason of driving away genuine people from airing their views

so if someone is being followed by a huge mass of people, it means they are beyond reproach or so perfect that they dont need advice??? is that an indictment of the leader or of his followers?

as for the dose of humility and civility, once again your advice is wrongly directed. if anyone needs strong doses of it, its the syedna and his family who are acting as modern day shahenshah's, they call themselves 'royals', shezaadas and zaadis, they act as if they have blue-blood in their veins, when they are nothing but hindu bania converts like the rest of us. they move around in chartered flights in the air and motorcades on land with pomp and show, they engage in 'royal' pursuits like the maharaja's of old by going on lavish shikar trips, and demand 2 rakat namaz for the dai. these are things which are totally against islam and the practices of the prophet and ali.

mutmaeen, by now it should be clear to you that you have run out of any sensible arguments in trying to defend what is indefensible and the more you continue, the more you are losing credibility and proving yrself a complete fool. the more you open yr mouth, the more you are putting yr own foot in it. this is a progressive bohras site. if you dont like what u read, u are welcome to stop visiting any time u want. we did not come to yr house to pick arguments with u, its you who comes here daily to wield your wooden sword. you can believe in whatever you want, even the sai baba, who has 100 million followers. thats yr right. just dont think that your foolish logic is going to lend credence to something or someone who is inherently unislamic and violating all the principles of our faith in the name of religion.

[canadian]

"If you don't like what u read, u are welcome to stop............."

Dear Al Zulfiqar:

I have always admired your expressive language and passion for the community, but sometimes I feel you too are intolerant just like the orthodox bohras, e.g. your above statement. I have often heard the same sort of logic from the orthos "if uou don't like our way, then you are welcome to find another religion, etc."

Recently I was seriously considering switching over to the reformist group completely, when I heard the following story.

A family living in the Toronto area belonged to the reformist jamaat in Hamilton and because of lack of adeqate transport did not attend bohra functions regularly. Then one day they were told by one of the reformist functionaries "you have joined us so that one day if there is a funeral in your house, you will expect us to perform the rites'. This family has now become sunni and of course I decided to listen to my relatives and continue to pay my dues to the local ortho. jamaat.

[Admin]

We second what "canadian" is saying. We want to emphasize that everybody is welcome to this Forum and read and write and express their opinion. This Forum belongs to all of us - reformist or not - and each one can claim it to be his/her own and at the same time assume responsibility to keep it free, fair and open. Thank you.

Canadian, we rarely jump into any discussion with our opinion, but we are puzzled by your decision not to join the reformist group. You base it on just one incident which may not even be true. We urge you not to judge a group on the basis of what one functionary allegedly said. Speak to the jamaat leaders and they will give you a better idea of their organization. Hope you'll reconsider your decision.

[Al Zulfiqar]

dear bro. canadian,

i am sorry that you have not understood my statement in its proper context. this came out in response to mutmaeen's plea on another post where he has said that if the reformists do not have (blind) faith in the syedna as the orthos do and also that if we do not agree with the syedna's actions, then we should leave them alone and get out of the community (and presumably this forum), instead of whining and complaining all the time.

now thats rich, considering that mutmaeen is the one on a progressive site, not us in an orthodox one, and he is the one who is coming here to prove by a perverse form of logic any which way, that a million people can't be wrong and by reflection the syedna has to be a saint, and that the reformists are gaddaars and turncoats. it may have come out harshly and sounded rather abrupt, for which i apologise. but when someone comes into yr house and tells you to behave as per their demands, its but natural that you have to ask them quite politely the reverse!

i cant comment on the part about the family who were 'told off', but as far as your decision goes to remain within the orthodox jamaat, thats entirely your prerogative. what i am only surprised about is that you would base such an important life decision on only one incident. i know many hamilton jamaat members and have found them to be very helpful, understanding and sympathetic. they go out of their way to welcome anyone who is considering joining them and providing them the support they need to overcome the social boycott they face upon joining them. i also know that many of them are very charitable not only in spirit, but also in many other ways. i am quite disappointed that this family was hurt and felt humiliated, and i am sure that after you have written here, someone from amongst their jamaat will take corrective measures.

[canadian]

Bhai Al Zulfiqar:

I do appreciate your argument, but what I was trying to say was that if we or you use the same threat of "if you do not agree with us, then go away", then what are we fighting for? May be I was not articulate enough!

Regarding the reformist jamaat acting the same way as the kothari jamaat, the incident I mentioned is true and for good or bad my relatives successfully convinced me that both the camps are too rigid and we do not really have any real choice or democracy in either. However as Admin has suggested, I shall try to study the reformist cause and its practice more carefully and act accordingly.

Finally, I apologise for diverting from the subject under discussion, i.e. "Next and not-so-New Maula".

[Frustrated.Mumin]

Brother Canadian,

While I too do not wish to divert the subject of this post (Next and not-so-new Maula), I have to respond to your comment about joining the reformist jamaat.

As Brother Al-Zulfiqar has already told you, joining or not joining the reformist jamaat is your prerogative. My question to you though would be "Why?"

Brother, we (by we, I mean the mainstream Bohra jamaat) need determined, intelligent and decisive people like you to fight from within. It would be very easy for many of us to give up on the mainstream jamaat and run away to the reformist side. But I am a strong believer in standing up for my rights and fighting for those rights.

Some years ago, I too was contemplating joining the reformist jamaat. I attended some of their events at the hall in Hamilton and found the majority to be very welcoming and supportive (of course, like everywhere else, there were a few who looked down at me and made snide remarks). I even attended muharram majlises at the Ithaasheri jamaat in Toronto. But at the end of it all, I asked myself why am I running away. I have not done anything wrong. If I run away, then I felt that I was being a hypocrite and that to me was unacceptable. I admire those who have moved to reformist jamaats, but there are many I personally know who wish they did not have to be part of a separate jamaat.

There are many, many things wrong with our jamaat right now. We have turned into a Dai-worshipping cult. If the 53rd Dai can turn this jamaat around, then that will be his greatest achievement and possibly a true mojiza. May Allah, the Most Powerful and Forgiving, in His infinite mercy give the next Maula the strenght to see all that is wrong with our jamaat and the ability to bring us back onto sirat-ul-mustaqeem.

I have made a decision to remain within the mainstream Dawoodi Bohra. I follow the teachings of the Qur'an and Panjataan Paak. I am educating myself in Islamic history and in the teachings of the Qur'an and Panjataan Paak. I am teaching my children to also have the confidence to question what they see in the Dawoodi Bohra cult. I have taught them that the Dai is just that - the Dai. He is human, he is fallible and he has made lots of mistakes for which Allah is the judge. But I have taught them to see the good as well as the bad. I know of many on this forum who will jump at me and say there is nothing good in the Dawoodi Bohra, but to them I say, Brothers and Sisters, the only reason you care enough about the Dawoodi Bohras to want to reform it is because you also see what is good and because you know that today the good is buried beneath mountains of dirt which we need to help clear up.

Fight from within, brother Canadian. Don't give up, don't be disheartened and more importantly don't give in. Change will come. We may be long dead and buried by then, but change will surely come and it will only come if we have people like you wiling to stand for your rights and fight from within. Gentle and learned words from you will bring about more change, more than anything you will achieve by joining the reformist jamaat.

[SBM]

Frustrated Mumin
Ameen to your posting, May Allah help us all to reform the entire corrupt system created by current and Previous Kothari Administration.
Even the mission statement of this forum clearly says that fight of progressive in not against Dawat but it is to reform
the current Dai and his corrupt Administration. If Kotharis learn the true meaning of Dawat and follow the path of previous Dais
all the one before 51st where simplicity and transparency ruled when Aamils were humble and true human being and No new innovations were created and we were the true MUMIN in the meaning and practice, and if that returns I think the mission of Progressives will be accomplished.

[Maqbool]

Fight from within, brother Canadian. Don't give up, don't be disheartened and more importantly don't give in. Change will come. We may be long dead and buried by then, but change will surely come and it will only come if we have people like you wiling to stand for your rights and fight from within. Gentle and learned words from you will bring about more change, more than anything you will achieve by joining the reformist jamaat.

Dear Frustrated Mumin,
I fully endorsed your views and I firmly believe to fight within. THE CHANGE WILL COME ONE DAY.

[mutmaeen]

az-so if someone is being followed by a huge mass of people, it means they are beyond reproach or so perfect that they dont need advice??? is that an indictment of the leader or of his followers

mutmaeen-i just said that i m not capable or qualified to advise syedna-the rest are ur pathetic conclusions based on fallacies

az-mutmaeen, by now it should be clear to you that you have run out of any sensible arguments in trying to defend what is indefensible and the more you continue, the more you are losing credibility and proving yrself a complete fool. the more you open yr mouth, the more you are putting yr own foot in it. this is a progressive bohras site. if you dont like what u read, u are welcome to stop visiting any time u want. we did not come to yr house to pick arguments with u, its you who comes here daily to wield your wooden sword. you can believe in whatever you want, even the sai baba, who has 100 million followers. thats yr right. just dont think that your foolish logic is going to lend credence to something or someone who is inherently unislamic and violating all the principles of our faith in the name of religion.

mutmaeen-in fact if there is a joker on this forum its u-u r like the subhramiam swamy of indian politics who would speak even when no one cares to listen to him-u r a proven moron who can bad mouth and abuse but cant debate-a commited idiot with monopoly on stupidity

[mutmaeen]

az-are u a reformist? u said u park urself in amils thal so u cant be-so how does a kettle call the pot black? and admin and others have shown u ur place-i already said they are sane people on this forum who though may have differing views are well bred and deserve respect

az-mutmaeen's plea on another post where he has said that if the reformists do not have (blind) faith in the syedna as the orthos do and also that if we do not agree with the syedna's actions, then we should leave them alone and get out of the community (and presumably this forum), instead of whining and complaining all the time.

now thats rich, considering that mutmaeen is the one on a progressive site, not us in an orthodox one, and he is the one who is coming here to prove by a perverse form of logic any which way, that a million people can't be wrong and by reflection the syedna has to be a saint, and that the reformists are gaddaars and turncoats. it may have come out harshly and sounded rather abrupt, for which i apologise. but when someone comes into yr house and tells you to behave as per their demands, its but natural that you have to ask them quite politely the reverse

mutmaeen-can u quote one post by me which says if the reformists dont follow syedna they shud get out of the comunity? and ur claim of being the custodian of this forum has been punctured by the saner elemets here-and all ur conclusions as usual are hollow and lies just as ur claim of al moulal muqaddas studying in al azhar was-so grow up if u can

[Al Zulfiqar]

mutmaeen,

first of all, let me wish you and everyone else on this forum, Eid Mubarak.

i can understand yr anger and irritation at having been frustrated in all your efforts to prove that the abdes are right and reformists are wrong in not having (blind) faith in syedna and constantly questioning his actions and the present-day practices he has begun in our community. you tried the numbers game (a million people cannot be wrong), you tried the education card (bohras are well educated and well-read and have access to libraries and internet), you tried the faith and belief trick (linking dai with imam, allah etc), you tried the knowledge card (and were shown that reformists generally have much more knowledge of our past history than a typical abde who has been deliberately mis-informed). when everything failed and you painted yourself in a corner, the mask of respectability that you wore for so long fell off, and now you too have revealed your true colors, resorting to name calling and abuse like any other fanatic.

In any case, i hold no rancour against you. you see i have met many like you over the last 30-40 years who are eager initially to show how mature, balanced and broad-minded they are, very open and sympathetic to the cause of reform etc etc. they try very hard to disarm anyone with progressive leanings and basically take the same tack like you. they will agree with all the talk for reform, show superficial understanding and support, but as you dig closer and engage them in more discussions, you soon realise that they will stick like superglue to the subject of blind faith in syedna and basically start regressing to the same stance taken by any typical fanatic in defense of the syedna's illegitimate and unislamic actions and behaviour. eventually they all end like you, foaming at the mouth and coming down to personalities. that it has happened in your case as well, is not surprising, since we all knew early on where you are going with your arguments. the only difference between you and the foul mouthed abdes is that we know what they are from their first post, they are atleast crystal clear. what is tragic, is that for all your attempts to portray yrself as someone different, you fell prey to the same fanaticism as them.

as i have said many times before, this site welcomes free, frank and fearless discussions on any subject related to our community and to islam in general, provided they are polite, sensible and have something to contribute. no one has stopped you so far in expressing yrself, even if they dont agree with you. i have also welcomed you to continue contributing, but if there is more of the same and we keep going round in circles, then we are all wasting each others time. i am neither a spokesman for the reformists, neither for this site, so please dont flatter me with your 'compliments'. we all make mistakes and we also correct each other when neccessary. bros. fm and canadian felt they had to point out that my statements made it seem that orthodox bohras were not welcome here. i agreed with them and so did admin. nowhere has anyone tried to put anyone 'in their place', as you so gleefully jumped to conclude in your haste to score brownie points.

i do not sit in the amil's thaal, even if he has invited me on a couple of occasions. so there goes another of yr low, below-the-belt blows. as for jokers, pls tell me who are bigger jokers, those who comically sing ghanu jeevo and declare that they will gladly donate their khaals as jootis for syedna, those who refer to him as quran-e-natiq and haqiqi kaaba, those who pray 2 rakat namaz for dai's long life or those who cheer whenever syedna shoots down a few elephants and lions, or yet those who bang their chests between prayers to do maatam?

once you have that figured out, maybe we can have a sensible debate.

[ghulam muhammed]

Bro mutmaeen,

From your posts it seems that you agree to the fact that the kothar administration is corrupt but at the same time you want to absolve the leader of all the sins committed by his subordinates. Now how can this be justified ? Even in a war the General recieves accolades in a victory and for the battle fought by his juniors but if the battle is lost then he rightly recieves all the brickbats. So if the leader can take credit for any positives then why do you want him to shirk his responsibilities if things go haywire as is the case with the dawoodi bohra community. Moreover he has too much of a blind following and his followers take his word as their final command so it is more easy for him to identify the culprits within his organisation and warn his followers of them but he doesnt do that..... Why ??? The only sane conclusion that one can come to is that he is an equal partner in all the misdeeds committed by his coterie.

[mutmaeen]

bro gm

in an earlier post bro fm had nicely put the thoughts that most of the mainstream bohras would ascribe to-u dont have to deal with kothar and syedna on a daily basis but its ur local jamaat and amil whom u hv to face daily-so if there is injustice there and u fight out u generally end up without oppression

bro az

i didnt try and play cards of one million followers bohras being educated etc-i firmly believe thats true.how is it that u can call anyone a fool or an idiot and then not getit back? as i stated earlier ur conclusions are ur own and based on ur hollow logic-i didnt wear a mask then and dont need to wear one now-and no certificates are needed from you as u urself need a lots of certification

its u who portrays urself as learned[which u r not] but all u have done is post fiction based satire of low grade mentality.if u get time study the way my city has dealt with oppression and u will know whats the difference between wagging a malobelant tongue and actually standing upto the authority