in the year 1992 there arose a rift between the jamaat here and a majority of mumineen regarding the functioning of the qaradan hasana.the mumineen formed a parallel qaradan hasana and named it al ameen merchants welfare association.this society helped its members in getting the refund of whatever deposits they had in the jamaat run qaradan hasana called taheri qaradan hasana.this society functioned excellently till 1996 catering to the financial needs of its members .
in 19996 syedna graced coimbatore to inaugurate the masjid and during that visit this society was ordered to be closed as it functioned without raza.attempts were made to talk it out with various shehzadas and other sheikhs accompanying syedna but in vain.syedna left coimbatore with al ameen closed
the members got together and decided that come what may they will not join taheri qaradan.attempts continued to get raza and a point came where we had to fax to the vazarat that any more delay and we will re start the qaradan without raza.we got a new name and raza and today qutbi qaradan is thriving and prospering and so are its members
here the sabeels are very reasonable and they cannot be arbitrarily increased.wajebaat is collected without coercion and no money is collected for masallah space
Next and not-so-New Maula
Re: Next and not-so-New Maula
canadian wrote: "If you don't like what u read, u are welcome to stop............."
Dear Al Zulfiqar:
I have always admired your expressive language and passion for the community, but sometimes I feel you too are intolerant just like the orthodox bohras, e.g. your above statement. I have often heard the same sort of logic from the orthos "if uou don't like our way, then you are welcome to find another religion, etc."
Recently I was seriously considering switching over to the reformist group completely, when I heard the following story.
A family living in the Toronto area belonged to the reformist jamaat in Hamilton and because of lack of adeqate transport did not attend bohra functions regularly. Then one day they were told by one of the reformist functionaries "you have joined us so that one day if there is a funeral in your house, you will expect us to perform the rites'. This family has now become sunni and of course I decided to listen to my relatives and continue to pay my dues to the local ortho. jamaat.
Many have shown disgust with the present Bohra system and have opted out in different directions. Majority have opted to sit it out till change comes; some have become Sunnis and some have become Ithna-asheris. And everyone is entitled to their own course which depends on each individual circumstances. We the reformists from all over the world have decided not to sit it out as it violates our deep rooted conviction. If any one wishes to join us, especially "canadian", please approach me as I am part of the managing committee of APDBO (Association of Progressive Dawoodi Bohras in Ontario) and we can discuss what we have to offer. Yes we have an excellent funeral scheme, we observe all important occasions, have our own center, had madrassa for the kids, our fees are bare minimum, have very active and dedicated members and are a close-knit network. In any organization, you get what you put in. Recently our membership has expanded due to a number of factors.
I am personally not aware of this incident that Canadian has mentioned. We welcome any body who wants to join us. Once again, please approach me and see whether we have what you are looking for. Don't base your decision on hearsay or one random incident. Pls send me a Private Message to get in touch with me. Please visit our website at http://apdbo.org or write to us at contact@apdbo.org.
Eid Mubarak and salaams to all.
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Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: Next and not-so-New Maula
mutmaeen,
if indeed what you write about the revolution in coimbatore is true, it is highly commendable and should be applauded by everyone. why is that we did not know about this before now?
thanks for letting us know. do you have any more details on all that had transpired and how it all started and who are the people involved? that is the type of spirit we could do more with and the happenings in mississauga prove that. the amil there is now acting all contrite and claiming that because he is a plain speaker and follows 'vazarat' instructions, he is seen upon as a bad guy, whereas other amils give sugar coated words and mislead people...!!
mutmaeen, we need people like you on this board, please do not mind some occasional words spoken in hot debate. my apologies for any hurt caused.
if indeed what you write about the revolution in coimbatore is true, it is highly commendable and should be applauded by everyone. why is that we did not know about this before now?
thanks for letting us know. do you have any more details on all that had transpired and how it all started and who are the people involved? that is the type of spirit we could do more with and the happenings in mississauga prove that. the amil there is now acting all contrite and claiming that because he is a plain speaker and follows 'vazarat' instructions, he is seen upon as a bad guy, whereas other amils give sugar coated words and mislead people...!!
mutmaeen, we need people like you on this board, please do not mind some occasional words spoken in hot debate. my apologies for any hurt caused.
Re: Next and not-so-New Maula
bro az
i apologise to u too sincerely for intentionaly wanting to hurt u with very abusive language-i m sorry brother
u or anyone here is free to investigate and find out what has happened in coimbatore
its a place of courageous people with lot of self pride
i apologise to u too sincerely for intentionaly wanting to hurt u with very abusive language-i m sorry brother
u or anyone here is free to investigate and find out what has happened in coimbatore
its a place of courageous people with lot of self pride
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Frustrated.Mumin
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:15 pm
Re: Next and not-so-New Maula
While looking at some of the photos on www.zeninfosys.net regarding the activities of Aqa Moula and the Shahzadas during the Eid-ul-Adha festivities, I had some questions or comments.
In the photos of Aqa Moula doing zabihat, I could not help noticing the large number of bouquets used to create a border around the area where the zabihat was done. Why such a wastage of money. Many orthodox Bohras will ask why it bothers me. When any government misuses public funds, the people have a right and a duty to object because it is the taxpayers money which is being misused. In the same way, this is money which mumineen have given as wajebaat, silo-fitro, sabeel etc which is being misused to buy flowers to adorn the area where zabihat is done. In the Indian heat, the flowers will wilt within hours and that is money down the drain. My question is this: many mumineen give wajebaat with the khalis niyaat that it is consists of their mandatory dues of zakaat. Is that payment as zakaat valid if the money is not being used to help the poor and the needy but to buy needless items such as flowers?
Everytime that I have seem photos of Raudat Tahera, there appears to be scaffolding around it. In the latest photos, the entire walls on the inside are covered up. These are the walls which have the entire Holy Qur'an written on them in gold and studded with jewels. Is Raudat Tahera in need of constant renovations?
In almost every photo, the faces of the women is blurred out. Although I personally find it difficult to accept, I can understand the concept of purdah and that apparently is the reason why the faces of the women is blurred out. However, my question is: If the face needed to be blurred out, then why was the woman allowed to be there in the first place? What is worse - me sitting at my computer and being able to see the face of the mumenaat bahen or being able to see her in person. Should she not be observing purdah in person such that she would not even be in the photo?
In the photos of the Shahzada in Houston, I was amazed to see that mumineen are doing salaam and kissing the knees of 2 young boys sitting next to the shahzada and who I believe are his sons. Apart from being the grandsons (I think) of the Dai, what qualifications/status/rank do these teenage boys have? Does the fact that they are related to the Dai make them more superior or more intelligent or more pious?
Wasalaam
In the photos of Aqa Moula doing zabihat, I could not help noticing the large number of bouquets used to create a border around the area where the zabihat was done. Why such a wastage of money. Many orthodox Bohras will ask why it bothers me. When any government misuses public funds, the people have a right and a duty to object because it is the taxpayers money which is being misused. In the same way, this is money which mumineen have given as wajebaat, silo-fitro, sabeel etc which is being misused to buy flowers to adorn the area where zabihat is done. In the Indian heat, the flowers will wilt within hours and that is money down the drain. My question is this: many mumineen give wajebaat with the khalis niyaat that it is consists of their mandatory dues of zakaat. Is that payment as zakaat valid if the money is not being used to help the poor and the needy but to buy needless items such as flowers?
Everytime that I have seem photos of Raudat Tahera, there appears to be scaffolding around it. In the latest photos, the entire walls on the inside are covered up. These are the walls which have the entire Holy Qur'an written on them in gold and studded with jewels. Is Raudat Tahera in need of constant renovations?
In almost every photo, the faces of the women is blurred out. Although I personally find it difficult to accept, I can understand the concept of purdah and that apparently is the reason why the faces of the women is blurred out. However, my question is: If the face needed to be blurred out, then why was the woman allowed to be there in the first place? What is worse - me sitting at my computer and being able to see the face of the mumenaat bahen or being able to see her in person. Should she not be observing purdah in person such that she would not even be in the photo?
In the photos of the Shahzada in Houston, I was amazed to see that mumineen are doing salaam and kissing the knees of 2 young boys sitting next to the shahzada and who I believe are his sons. Apart from being the grandsons (I think) of the Dai, what qualifications/status/rank do these teenage boys have? Does the fact that they are related to the Dai make them more superior or more intelligent or more pious?
Wasalaam
Re: Next and not-so-New Maula
frustrated mumin; if the expense of the flowers hurts you because the way your hard earned money is wasted you should come to Atlanta, and see first hand how the corrupt and low down committee is spending the mumineens hard earned money. A residential house was purchased on the authority of an ignorant Amil of california and the local amil to be used as a markaz. hundreds of thousands of dollars have been spent in its maintainance since its purchase. The committee and the Amil being ignorant about engineering or construction have been looted by the local contractors. where things could be done for one dollar they have spent a hundred . The local county has shut the markaz down and has given a long list of violations. such is the affairs of the jamat. They have no capacity to use their brains. It has been completely washed out . The only thing remains is food, food,food and matam, matam,matam which is now being held by renting hall from outsiders at a rental price .
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Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: Next and not-so-New Maula
Mutmaeen,
no need to berate yrself over a heated debate. mistakes happen. let us put it down to being human. only a genuine person with his heart in the right place apologises and that establishes your credentials. take it easy brother.
FM,
i can understand the pain behind yr questions. its not just our money wasted on flowers, which is an extremely petty issue, but much larger big-ticket items, such as the upkeep of the royal lifestyle of the vast family of the syedna, their luxury travels, huge amounts spent on media publicity, giving hefty bribes to politicians, high ups in the police and other bigwigs, incl. treating goondas to lavish food and gifts. also lets not forget (i'm sorry, have to mention my pet peeve!) the totally haraam activities funded with our zakaat money, like lavish shikar and safari trips to murder wild animals.
the amils of almost every major city where there are substantial bohra populations, are enjoying free furnished houses, cars, free food and lavish jamans almost every other day, plus travel wherever syedna goes, all at jamaat expense. on top of which they lord it over us, mistreat us and humiliate US, who pay his salary!!
the injunctions on paying of zakat are clear. that they MUST go only to the deserving, starting with yr poor relatives, then mohalla, then area, and then town. later you can send money even overseas for deserving causes. wifully giving zakat to someone whom you know is not spending it in the way of Allah and is instead using it for selfish and vested interests, thus depriving the needy of their 'right' on your income, is a crime and a grievous sin. when the muslims of old gave their zakat money to people like ali, they knew that with his honesty and integrity, he would disburse wisely and among the most deserving. that precedent is now being used by syedna and his family to commit fraud on a massive scale. may Allah do justice to them.
as for the salaams to the young boys, dont u know, that every member of syedna's family is considered to be a 'blue-blooded royal'? they are as if of divine descent and we are dirty untouchables. they are divine brahmins and we the lowest shudra class. i have seen this in practice since last several decades, nothing new. none of our bohras have the guts to just walk by without acknowledging these shameless spoilt brats. my father did it once probably some 35-40 years ago when one of the zaadas was visiting and was called up the next day to apologise. he refused and was threatened with baraat, but he stood firm and informed the reformists, who made a big noise about it and eventually the matter was hushed up. i have seen old and rheumatic men, bowing down with great difficulty, being forced to do salaams to these arrogant puppies!
mumin,
your example of atlanta is nothing new. even in mississauga, the stupid and inept committee wasted lots of the jamaats money in building a kitchen in their new donated markaz without engaging the right contractor. as a result, city inspectors did not provide them a completion certificate and time and money was wasted re-doing things and inspite of having the premises, they could not use it for the first ramzan and still had to go out and rent a banquet hall for 30 days!
the conclusion is that when you have a docile and cowardly community who can be milked at will, why bother saving any money, or give any accounts? come up with a new farmaan and the meek will pay up. although the blacks in the US are much more braver and defiant than us, it still took them 300 years to win freedom. with a totally subservient and spineless community (for the major part) like the bohras, god alone knows how long it will take!!!
no need to berate yrself over a heated debate. mistakes happen. let us put it down to being human. only a genuine person with his heart in the right place apologises and that establishes your credentials. take it easy brother.
FM,
i can understand the pain behind yr questions. its not just our money wasted on flowers, which is an extremely petty issue, but much larger big-ticket items, such as the upkeep of the royal lifestyle of the vast family of the syedna, their luxury travels, huge amounts spent on media publicity, giving hefty bribes to politicians, high ups in the police and other bigwigs, incl. treating goondas to lavish food and gifts. also lets not forget (i'm sorry, have to mention my pet peeve!) the totally haraam activities funded with our zakaat money, like lavish shikar and safari trips to murder wild animals.
the amils of almost every major city where there are substantial bohra populations, are enjoying free furnished houses, cars, free food and lavish jamans almost every other day, plus travel wherever syedna goes, all at jamaat expense. on top of which they lord it over us, mistreat us and humiliate US, who pay his salary!!
the injunctions on paying of zakat are clear. that they MUST go only to the deserving, starting with yr poor relatives, then mohalla, then area, and then town. later you can send money even overseas for deserving causes. wifully giving zakat to someone whom you know is not spending it in the way of Allah and is instead using it for selfish and vested interests, thus depriving the needy of their 'right' on your income, is a crime and a grievous sin. when the muslims of old gave their zakat money to people like ali, they knew that with his honesty and integrity, he would disburse wisely and among the most deserving. that precedent is now being used by syedna and his family to commit fraud on a massive scale. may Allah do justice to them.
as for the salaams to the young boys, dont u know, that every member of syedna's family is considered to be a 'blue-blooded royal'? they are as if of divine descent and we are dirty untouchables. they are divine brahmins and we the lowest shudra class. i have seen this in practice since last several decades, nothing new. none of our bohras have the guts to just walk by without acknowledging these shameless spoilt brats. my father did it once probably some 35-40 years ago when one of the zaadas was visiting and was called up the next day to apologise. he refused and was threatened with baraat, but he stood firm and informed the reformists, who made a big noise about it and eventually the matter was hushed up. i have seen old and rheumatic men, bowing down with great difficulty, being forced to do salaams to these arrogant puppies!
mumin,
your example of atlanta is nothing new. even in mississauga, the stupid and inept committee wasted lots of the jamaats money in building a kitchen in their new donated markaz without engaging the right contractor. as a result, city inspectors did not provide them a completion certificate and time and money was wasted re-doing things and inspite of having the premises, they could not use it for the first ramzan and still had to go out and rent a banquet hall for 30 days!
the conclusion is that when you have a docile and cowardly community who can be milked at will, why bother saving any money, or give any accounts? come up with a new farmaan and the meek will pay up. although the blacks in the US are much more braver and defiant than us, it still took them 300 years to win freedom. with a totally subservient and spineless community (for the major part) like the bohras, god alone knows how long it will take!!!
Re: Next and not-so-New Maula
Frurstrated Mumin, Mumin and Al Zulfikar,
I completely share your views ......... and heartaches.......... what a shameless waste of community money..!!!! Though as AZ has put it, why to care when the sleeping bohras can be milked at will any time..!!! When will these people wake up???!!!! WHY on earth it is so difficult not to see all this crap going on??!! Where is the general common intellect of the people??!!
FM - you are right, I get so pissed off when i see people kissing the hands and feet of grandsons of Dai...!!!! even though they are just kids. This implants in those kids that they are 'superior' and 'born to rule'........ which exactly Kothar wants. Kothar not only wants to brain wash people, but wants to 'create' and 'prepare' their elite ruling class, they are not taking chances that someone from them only may realize that what they are doing is wrong.... They do not want any Musa amongst them..!!!!
And even forget the grandsons of Dai........ and yeah! their qualification is that they are the grandsons of a Ruler, a Dictator, a Despot, so they deseve complete submission from the people. As I was saying people also, specially ladies, do the salam to kids of Amils too. In all the so called Majlis and tons of Darees going on every day, the host has not only to do salams to Amil, his wife, but to all of his kids too. I have seen with my own eyes, old ladies doing salam to kid girls of ex-Amil, and those arrogant girls even not responding, meaning the old ladies kisses the hand, and the kid does not reciprocate.
AZ - may be 300 yeras is also not sufficient. What bohras need is a very strict, highly corrupt and ruthless despot, far worse then current one.... and may be then they will develop the idea of resistance.
I completely share your views ......... and heartaches.......... what a shameless waste of community money..!!!! Though as AZ has put it, why to care when the sleeping bohras can be milked at will any time..!!! When will these people wake up???!!!! WHY on earth it is so difficult not to see all this crap going on??!! Where is the general common intellect of the people??!!
FM - you are right, I get so pissed off when i see people kissing the hands and feet of grandsons of Dai...!!!! even though they are just kids. This implants in those kids that they are 'superior' and 'born to rule'........ which exactly Kothar wants. Kothar not only wants to brain wash people, but wants to 'create' and 'prepare' their elite ruling class, they are not taking chances that someone from them only may realize that what they are doing is wrong.... They do not want any Musa amongst them..!!!!
And even forget the grandsons of Dai........ and yeah! their qualification is that they are the grandsons of a Ruler, a Dictator, a Despot, so they deseve complete submission from the people. As I was saying people also, specially ladies, do the salam to kids of Amils too. In all the so called Majlis and tons of Darees going on every day, the host has not only to do salams to Amil, his wife, but to all of his kids too. I have seen with my own eyes, old ladies doing salam to kid girls of ex-Amil, and those arrogant girls even not responding, meaning the old ladies kisses the hand, and the kid does not reciprocate.
AZ - may be 300 yeras is also not sufficient. What bohras need is a very strict, highly corrupt and ruthless despot, far worse then current one.... and may be then they will develop the idea of resistance.
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like_minded
- Posts: 1260
- Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am
Re: Next and not-so-New Maula
AZ - may be 300 yeras is also not sufficient. What bohras need is a very strict, highly corrupt and ruthless despot, far worse then current one.... and may be then they will develop the idea of resistance.
The conclusion I have arrived at after seeing this madness is that... people in our community, actually like getting their backsides clubbed! They enjoy licking feet, bowing down, being harassed, enslaved, pressurized, humiliated, insulted.................. They ENJOY this treatment meted out by the blood-sucking parasites (Kothar) ... and believe me, if the 53rd is going to be more corrupt and ruthless than the present impotent, there will be more followers... because this spineless community loves the garbage thrown at them, they are not interested in healthy nourishment which is available to them by nature... they want more garbage!!! Where is the question of resistance?
The conclusion I have arrived at after seeing this madness is that... people in our community, actually like getting their backsides clubbed! They enjoy licking feet, bowing down, being harassed, enslaved, pressurized, humiliated, insulted.................. They ENJOY this treatment meted out by the blood-sucking parasites (Kothar) ... and believe me, if the 53rd is going to be more corrupt and ruthless than the present impotent, there will be more followers... because this spineless community loves the garbage thrown at them, they are not interested in healthy nourishment which is available to them by nature... they want more garbage!!! Where is the question of resistance?
Re: Next and not-so-New Maula
So Bro Like Minded,
Do you think there is NO HOPE ......... not in any way..... they will go deep and down with every passing day??!! if 53rd is worse, slaves would love him more, 54th ........ where is the Ray of Hope, perhaps bohras slaves are so use to be pure bottoms that they even do not to try to pleasures of being top...
Do you think there is NO HOPE ......... not in any way..... they will go deep and down with every passing day??!! if 53rd is worse, slaves would love him more, 54th ........ where is the Ray of Hope, perhaps bohras slaves are so use to be pure bottoms that they even do not to try to pleasures of being top...
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like_minded
- Posts: 1260
- Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am
Re: Next and not-so-New Maula
Absolutely Bro JC!
Look the fundamental problem is... The element of "fear" and "greed"., Fear of afterlife and greed for prosperity and wealth... The lives of Bohras hinge around these factors! Unless there is awareness and willingness to look directly at these issues and understand that these are just illusions, there is no hope.
Look the fundamental problem is... The element of "fear" and "greed"., Fear of afterlife and greed for prosperity and wealth... The lives of Bohras hinge around these factors! Unless there is awareness and willingness to look directly at these issues and understand that these are just illusions, there is no hope.
Re: Next and not-so-New Maula
Bro Like Minded
So this is true for almost all the sects and all the religions (which to me is the reason for Great Divide). Every religion tends to instigate Fear and Greed ......... Fear of 'unknown' termed as 'life hereafter' and Greed for immortal life with all the luxuris of life (explained in terms used in THIS world). All religions SELL these items, and people BUY.
So I believe, if the fear of unknown is taken out (by knowledge and education), and people 'believe' what has to come, has to come, irrespective, may be they will change. And yes, Greed, is one of the main factors, it is natural for humans to be greedy ........ so if the cocept of 'reward' here and life hereafter is questioned and understood, may be greed can also be overcomed.
I believe human beings are sill far from that day, when they will do something not because of Fear and Greed.
So this is true for almost all the sects and all the religions (which to me is the reason for Great Divide). Every religion tends to instigate Fear and Greed ......... Fear of 'unknown' termed as 'life hereafter' and Greed for immortal life with all the luxuris of life (explained in terms used in THIS world). All religions SELL these items, and people BUY.
So I believe, if the fear of unknown is taken out (by knowledge and education), and people 'believe' what has to come, has to come, irrespective, may be they will change. And yes, Greed, is one of the main factors, it is natural for humans to be greedy ........ so if the cocept of 'reward' here and life hereafter is questioned and understood, may be greed can also be overcomed.
I believe human beings are sill far from that day, when they will do something not because of Fear and Greed.
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like_minded
- Posts: 1260
- Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am
Re: Next and not-so-New Maula
Exactly!!
The root of all evils is RELIGION
The root of all evils is RELIGION
Re: Next and not-so-New Maula
like_minded wrote:Exactly!!
The root of all evils is RELIGION
Love of Money is Root Cause of Evils
http://ezinearticles.com/?Love-of-Money ... &id=664612