As being member of this Forum naturally we possess some thoughts which would differ with those belonging to the mainstream Bohras, it's necessary to know the number, if not absolute number, who consider themselves progressive or reformist.
Given the IT explosion making time and distance irrelevent in terms of contact and flow of information across the world, it should not be a big job to carry out a census of progressive Bohras acorss the glob.
Let us give a thought to it and work out the ways and means towards this goal. I am not sure if it is already available. If it is there, it should be posted to this site with all the detial of each member, which would definitely foster a better affinity and understanding among us.
The Admin of this site may have to work harder and may have to create a separate place for this kind of posting, which can be updated as and when required.
Allah Hafiz
Khurshid Ali DK
Kuwait
Strength of Progressive Bohras across the world
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khurshid ali DK
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:27 am
Re: Strength of Progressive Bohras across the world
Khurshid, welcome to the forum. Maybe it's a good idea to find out the number of reformists, but what is more important in my view is that all reformists and their centres should be more in touch and get better organised. All the reformist centres outside India remain isolated from each other with hardly any contact or sharing of information. All reformists must come under one unbrella - the central board of dawoodi bohra community - and work as a single entity. We must all speak from one platform, with one voice.
Re: Strength of Progressive Bohras across the world
Dear brother Khurshid ali,
Welcome to the board.
In 1977 late Noman Contractor (reformist leader) did compile a list of open and active reformists in India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Uk, USA, Canada, Thai land, Singapore, Mauritius, France, Madagascar etc. As I remember the total of open reformists then was slightly more than 40,000.
Welcome to the board.
In 1977 late Noman Contractor (reformist leader) did compile a list of open and active reformists in India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Uk, USA, Canada, Thai land, Singapore, Mauritius, France, Madagascar etc. As I remember the total of open reformists then was slightly more than 40,000.
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Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: Strength of Progressive Bohras across the world
i wholeheartedly agree. there is a considerable disconnect between the main body of reformists in udaipur where the bulk of the active reformists are centred and all the other groups elsewhere in india, pakistan, africa and other countries in close proximity; but it is most pronounced with the groups in the west. there seems to be very little co-ordination and routine synchronising of efforts or goals. of course, their needs out here in the west are different, but when it comes to presenting a front, they must be united and speak with one voice as you have suggested.Humsafar wrote:Khurshid, welcome to the forum. Maybe it's a good idea to find out the number of reformists, but what is more important in my view is that all reformists and their centres should be more in touch and get better organised. All the reformist centres outside India remain isolated from each other with hardly any contact or sharing of information. All reformists must come under one unbrella - the central board of dawoodi bohra community - and work as a single entity. We must all speak from one platform, with one voice.
often we have had misunderstandings, because i and many others have commented on the reformists here, but it gets misconstrued as negative comments against the brave souls of udaipur whose fight continues on a daily basis and who have no peace from the goons of the kothar.
there will be many, i'm sure, who might also deliberately twist this objective as another attempt by the reformists to run a centralised authority like the kothar. but here the goals are different, not to subjugate and exploit for any sinister reasons, but to strengthen the efforts for reform and unite everyone into a common mindset.
Re: Strength of Progressive Bohras across the world
Good point, Zulfiqar. The refomrists within the CBDBC umberall work more like a federalist system. Each jamaat has its own constitutions and spends its income as it deems fit. They are not beholden to the Central Board in any way - financially or otherwise - and of course there is no questions of taking orders from anybody. People's power rules. The idea of speaking in one voice is only to present a united front as a movement, so that our agenda is the same and so is our message.there will be many, i'm sure, who might also deliberately twist this objective as another attempt by the reformists to run a centralised authority like the kothar.
The jamaats in the West have always been a bit leery of joining the CBDBC - for reason, I guess, of distance, lack of contact and information and a certain detachment from the cause of "fighting the kothar". I've noticed that in the UK and Canada, at least, the general feeling is that we have got a good thing going here, we are safe in our cocoon - and kothar is mostly irrelevant to us. That is why i've always believed that the reformists in the West do not matter. They neither have the numbers nor the desire to change the system. I'm hoping this will change with time, especially if there is a better coordination among all the centres world over.
On the flip side, it's orthodox jamaats in the West with the undercurrent of despair and disappointment within them that may yet become a harbinger of change.
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Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: Strength of Progressive Bohras across the world
Humsafar,
it would be a good idea if someone like you were to make a trip to north america and bring some fresh perspectives to the reformist jamaats here. fresh ideas and insights from the udaipur angle and p.o.v. would energise and streamline their efforts.
i have always maintained that if reforms have a real chance of succeeding, the west is the best place from which to launch and intensify the fight, as the laws and atmosphere here are conducive to support democratic reform and the kothar cannot get away with blatant disregard of our rights and indulge wholesale in embezzlement of money and illegal activities. the recent events in mississauga, even though very limited in scope, did prove this and should be an eye opener to other bohras in north america and europe.
it would be a good idea if someone like you were to make a trip to north america and bring some fresh perspectives to the reformist jamaats here. fresh ideas and insights from the udaipur angle and p.o.v. would energise and streamline their efforts.
i have always maintained that if reforms have a real chance of succeeding, the west is the best place from which to launch and intensify the fight, as the laws and atmosphere here are conducive to support democratic reform and the kothar cannot get away with blatant disregard of our rights and indulge wholesale in embezzlement of money and illegal activities. the recent events in mississauga, even though very limited in scope, did prove this and should be an eye opener to other bohras in north america and europe.
Re: Strength of Progressive Bohras across the world
Great suggestion. Brother Humsafar, we would love to welcome you to the Canadian reformists jammat and their agendas. Perhaps you can help infuse some fresh ideas and get us out of our 'cocoons'. As you rightly mentioned, we are small, self contained and pretty content. However I would like to think we still matter.Humsafar,
it would be a good idea if someone like you were to make a trip to north america and bring some fresh perspectives to the reformist jamaats here. fresh ideas and insights from the udaipur angle and p.o.v. would energise and streamline their efforts.
WSAK.
Bohri
Re: Strength of Progressive Bohras across the world
Zulfiqar, thanks for your suggestion. I feel flattered that anyone should think of me as capable of energizing reformists in North America. Alas, the fire in the belly must come from within.
Dear Bohri, thank you so much for inviting me to your jamaat, I'm really touched. I would love to stir things up in your nook of the woods, but it's so far and so cold, you guys might as well be living in an igloo, in every sense and connotation of the word
. Yes, I would also like to think that you people still matter. But the fact of the matter is quite different.
Dear Bohri, thank you so much for inviting me to your jamaat, I'm really touched. I would love to stir things up in your nook of the woods, but it's so far and so cold, you guys might as well be living in an igloo, in every sense and connotation of the word
. Yes, I would also like to think that you people still matter. But the fact of the matter is quite different. -
Mamluk-E-Syedna
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:01 am
Re: Strength of Progressive Bohras across the world
.... that was "supposedly" in 1977 -- as spoken by "Mr. Truth"! Unfortunately, 39,999 of them are already in their permanent home -- Jahannum. Of course, "Mr. Truth" is the last one, waiting in the wing to anxiously join them.S. Insaf wrote:Dear brother Khurshid ali,
Welcome to the board.
In 1977 late Noman Contractor (reformist leader) did compile a list of open and active reformists in India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Uk, USA, Canada, Thai land, Singapore, Mauritius, France, Madagascar etc. As I remember the total of open reformists then was slightly more than 40,000.
Khuda ni Laanat Dai na Dushmano upar. Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Zindabad!
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khurshid ali DK
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:27 am
Re: Strength of Progressive Bohras across the world
Dear Brothers
The overwhelming response indicates that it's been the same fire that has been burning in the belly of every member who harbours a thought or two about Bohra Community being run along the line of Democracy where religious aspects are not mixed with the Administrative factors. However, it seems we are veering away from the subject matter. Here the requirment is to carry out census in each continent, country, city and mohalla and thereafer the details are compiled in such a way that we get in touch with anybody, anywhere, anytime. Since we have this site, we can create some space for this purpose. The administrator of this site should step in and advise whether or not it is possible to create some space or what is the alternative.
My earnest suggestion is that let us prepare a simple Form where all the personal,educational, professional and address including email and contact numbers are entered. Post it to this site. This Form then should be downloaded by the Jamaat of Progressive Bohras in every city.
Each Jamaat would undertake to enter all the details of their members. Once all the Forms are available, then we can request the Administrators' of this site to upload the same Form which shoul be editable. Probably it might require some software development.May be some of our Brothers, proficient in programming, might land a helping hand. It should be simple. Enter all the details in the required format and enter save. The new updated version under Forlder "Reformist Bohras " should provide details of any person (if available in the database) immediately.
Probably it's been appearing too simple. I know it's very very long distance to cover. But one has to take first step regardless and might have to deal with many hurdles. Isn't our movement riven with so many obstacles!! Let's give a try. Let's make a bigining, however modest it might turn out to be. Somebody has aptly put it "Main akela hi chalaa tha manzil ke janib, log milte gaye Karvaan banta Gaya".
Allah hafiz
Khurshid Ali D.K
The overwhelming response indicates that it's been the same fire that has been burning in the belly of every member who harbours a thought or two about Bohra Community being run along the line of Democracy where religious aspects are not mixed with the Administrative factors. However, it seems we are veering away from the subject matter. Here the requirment is to carry out census in each continent, country, city and mohalla and thereafer the details are compiled in such a way that we get in touch with anybody, anywhere, anytime. Since we have this site, we can create some space for this purpose. The administrator of this site should step in and advise whether or not it is possible to create some space or what is the alternative.
My earnest suggestion is that let us prepare a simple Form where all the personal,educational, professional and address including email and contact numbers are entered. Post it to this site. This Form then should be downloaded by the Jamaat of Progressive Bohras in every city.
Each Jamaat would undertake to enter all the details of their members. Once all the Forms are available, then we can request the Administrators' of this site to upload the same Form which shoul be editable. Probably it might require some software development.May be some of our Brothers, proficient in programming, might land a helping hand. It should be simple. Enter all the details in the required format and enter save. The new updated version under Forlder "Reformist Bohras " should provide details of any person (if available in the database) immediately.
Probably it's been appearing too simple. I know it's very very long distance to cover. But one has to take first step regardless and might have to deal with many hurdles. Isn't our movement riven with so many obstacles!! Let's give a try. Let's make a bigining, however modest it might turn out to be. Somebody has aptly put it "Main akela hi chalaa tha manzil ke janib, log milte gaye Karvaan banta Gaya".
Allah hafiz
Khurshid Ali D.K
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Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: Strength of Progressive Bohras across the world
mamluk,Mamluk-E-Syedna wrote:.... that was "supposedly" in 1977 -- as spoken by "Mr. Truth"! Unfortunately, 39,999 of them are already in their permanent home -- Jahannum. Of course, "Mr. Truth" is the last one, waiting in the wing to anxiously join them.S. Insaf wrote:Dear brother Khurshid ali,
Welcome to the board.
In 1977 late Noman Contractor (reformist leader) did compile a list of open and active reformists in India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Uk, USA, Canada, Thai land, Singapore, Mauritius, France, Madagascar etc. As I remember the total of open reformists then was slightly more than 40,000.
Khuda ni Laanat Dai na Dushmano upar. Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Zindabad!
we trust you would know, as who is better qualified than you to have been to jahannum with a chitthi from yr dai, to verify this? i assume the shaitan has let you come back in disguise as a rabid abdesyedna, to continue his evil work..
Re: Strength of Progressive Bohras across the world
wonder why dai na dushmano upar they send khuda ni laanat, it should be dai ni laanat dai naa dushmano upar.Khuda ni Laanat Dai na Dushmano upar
coz we all know reformist are definitely not khuda na dushman , except few chosen ones!
Re: Strength of Progressive Bohras across the world
Khurshid Ali,
Welcome to the Forum and thank you for your suggestion. While we understand the importance of carrying out a census of reformist Bohras we don't think this site is an appropriate tool to do it. First, not all reformists visit this site and it would be very impractical to make everyone to go on the Web to fill out a form. Second, there is the issue of privacy. Not everybody will be comfortable in disclosing their information to us. Third, we as Admin are not authorized to collect such information. Fourth, there is no way to verify that information sent to us is authentic. Given these issues, we don't think it would be a good idea to undertake such a task.
However, the best way to do it is at the jamaat level. All jamaats and centers have a list of members, an attempt can be made to add up the lists and a rough estimate can be had. We know that sometime back an attempt was made by the UK and Canada jamaats to compile a list of their members, but the idea was not get the headcount but to create a directory of names, addresses and phone numbers.
Welcome to the Forum and thank you for your suggestion. While we understand the importance of carrying out a census of reformist Bohras we don't think this site is an appropriate tool to do it. First, not all reformists visit this site and it would be very impractical to make everyone to go on the Web to fill out a form. Second, there is the issue of privacy. Not everybody will be comfortable in disclosing their information to us. Third, we as Admin are not authorized to collect such information. Fourth, there is no way to verify that information sent to us is authentic. Given these issues, we don't think it would be a good idea to undertake such a task.
However, the best way to do it is at the jamaat level. All jamaats and centers have a list of members, an attempt can be made to add up the lists and a rough estimate can be had. We know that sometime back an attempt was made by the UK and Canada jamaats to compile a list of their members, but the idea was not get the headcount but to create a directory of names, addresses and phone numbers.